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We need an overall cost reduction to Z store Ships
westx211
Member Posts: 42,338 Arc User
I've been here since launch I've played the majority of the time and pretty much the only time I ever buy ships anymore is in giant packs such as the delta pack and the gamma pack. The fact isn't just that they're the best deals overall the problem is the huge amount of cost going into a c store ship. At this point in time I'm sure most are aware or understand that the majority of T6 and T5 ships are garbage. Either ships people only buy for looks or roleplay purposes because the stats are bad and the consoles are usually mediocre and for the vast majority of T6 ships the traits are garbage. At 30 dollars and 25 dollars on average per T6 and T5 ship they're too expensive to just grab a ship for fun or too TRIBBLE around with. I was discussing this with fleet members and a few friends of mine and I firmly believe that the majority of T6 ships should be lowered in price to around 2,000 zen. And T5 ships should be lowered to 1,500 zen. This would greatly encourage people to play around with ships more like hey that ship has a silly console that might be fun to try out or I kind of like the look of this ship. Of course other combo packs would need to be reduced too to be more inline with the new price. At this point in time there is just a glut of Z store ships and its just getting to be too much. We need something to balance it out.
I'm curious to get more people's thoughts on this.
I'm curious to get more people's thoughts on this.
Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
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If you want lower prices, 20% off sales happen several times a year and there have been flash sales with steeper discounts.
Have you TRIBBLE into Cryptic's accounting department to get sales figures or is this just your feelings?
Cryptic is a business. If ships would sell enough more at lower prices to make them more profit then prices would already be lowered.
"Stop liking what I don't like"?
Cryptic has sales figures for both list prices and their sale prices. You can claim to know what sales would be like at lower prices but Cryptic is the one with the data to know best.
Outfitting 6 characters with the ships in the Shipyard (I.O.W. grinding Dilithium, one by one)...it is easier to unlock the C-store ships and know everyone can pick it up.
So, yeah, I am still buying the "old" stuff. And getting funny old consoles from them to play with. Aceton Assimilator being one of the more useful ones I found.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
But cheaper wouldn't make much of a difference, my purchasing is based more on style & appearance than "gotta catch 'em all".
(Semi-recent purchases include the Adv Light Cruiser, T6 Sovereign, Orion Blackguard, and Europa. I've never bought an "expansion" pack or a 9 ship mega-bundle. I did buy one or two cross-faction trios.)
The Subspace Jumper console from the Ch'Tang BoP is my favorite. Can be used on any of my ships(from KDF or Rom/KDF side) without breaking cloak, and is great for getting out of bad situations(such as avoiding Klingon Granny's piloting...Just kidding! I still love you, Klingon Granny! Don't feed me racht!
Ewwww....don't make me look up gross things, especially before I go to sleep.
I will go dig out the Subspace Jumper console...I am sure it is in one of the piles.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
There's a few things that need to be understood when they determine how much to charge for a ship. Building a ship for players to use in game takes time, effort, man hours, and resources to do so. Those have to be taken into account when determining prices. The other things how long the ship is intended to be used for and at what tier. naturally a tier 1 ship isn't going to be worth as much as a tier 4 ship being one example. you also don't get nearly as much on the tier 1 ships as you do the tier 4. borticus once said it took about 12 weeks I believe it was to get a ship ready for use in game. these ships aren't just something they can poof up over night and alot goes into them.
Cryptic is a business, and business exists to make money. Considering what we get on t6 ships I don't see the price point as unreasonable.
I pulled these two quotes out specifically because I take serious issue with these statements. First off, on what standard do you declare the vast majority of the ships garbage? Simply because you don't like a ship, can't find a build for it you like, or it's not the 3rd coming of the scimitars does NOT make a ship garbage. At this point I own the entirety of the cstore, and will more than likely own this upcoming pack as well. From experience I have yet to see a single t5 or t6 ship that can't be made into some kind of tank or do well in terms of damage. Some ships work better with certain builds than others do, but despite popular belief, there is no winner take all "best" ship in game. If someone tells you otherwise they're straight up lying to you. Every console and trait has its place, but not every trait or console is going to be useful for every single build. Simply because you have no use for it again does not make it trash. not every ship, console, or trait out there will appeal to all people and there is nothing wrong with that. Although I am capable of doing so, I typically don't fly science ships that often because I'm not a science guy, where as that's near exclusively what another friend of mine flies.
Secondly, when it comes to the cstore, you are under absolutely NO OBLIGATION to buy the ships if you don't think you would like them. I personally own everything in the cstore as I said above because I personally enjoy collecting the ships and flying something different from time to time. Some of those ships I've dropped cash for, others I've flipped dilithium to zen in order to pay for it.
The beauty of STO is if you don't want to spend cash to get something, you don't have to. There are several free to play folks that I know of who have just as much stuff as I do, it just takes them longer to get it. Every single ship I have now you also could have if you grind it out.
At the end of the day cryptic is a business that exists to make money. They offer a product and if we as the potential buyers think there's enough value there or we would enjoy it, we invest. If we think we wouldn't, then you vote with your wallet and don't buy it. If enough folks don't buy it then they will have to re-evaluate and change things up. The average consumer is not as powerless as he may think he is.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
With that in mind, I do try to compare what I will be getting with the money, compared to how long I would like to keep playing the game, if I can. That is why I got the LTS recently while it was on sale. I did see benefit in it's value at $200. But not at $300.
So, lowering the prices would encourage me to get more of them. And I am not talking about a small 20% sale, but a significant price change. But, that is just me. I know that some players don't care how much they charge for the ships and packs, they just want them. And that is their right.
However, to say that the majority of the T6 ships are garbage tells me that you might not have used any of them. They are light years better than the T5, or even T5U ships. In fact, the gap between the T5U and T6 version of the same ship is HUGE! I am not saying that you can't do content in T5 or T5U ships. But it is a whole lot harder, especially if you don't have MK 15 weapons and gear. But, even the recent grind ships you can get for free (Winter and Anniversary ships) are really OP for advance TFOs.
Therefore, while I also would personally like to see the prices to be lowered to what I consider more reasonable prices, I can't agree that the most OP ships in the game are garbage.
Side note, if they are not going to lower the price of T5 ships at least, I would love to see them add the T5U upgrades to each T5 ship sold. But, I know that is just wishful thinking.
Razar.
But times change.
There are so many ways to get around the cost available to me in the game, I never felt it was an issue, now.
The ships I been buying for Admiralty was with birthday and Christmas Zen (purchased with Master Card) in combination with converted Dilithium and being patient about waiting for a sale. Paced myself.
Sure it has taken me this long....Admiralty started in 2015? I went into it knowing it was gonna be a long haul. And along the way, I got the Pilot Raptor bundle, too....That would be T-6 trio of ships, just for fun.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
They're priced to sell, just not in big quantities outside bundles and sales. Apart from the impulse buyers and the impatient fanatics who like a ship so much they simply must have it NOW.
The main hook for a T6 is the trait rather than the ship itself which should make them very much a considered purchase. For example the GW trait that got dumped into an escort is something I'll not be going after because I've never found escorts fun and I loathe the concept of buying a ship purely for the trait specially if I'm not going to enjoy grinding the trait out multiple times because cryptic love their per character stuff which contradicts the player is the account thing they blather about from time to time.
If you want overpriced ships just look at the lobi ones. Prices should have been capped at the 800 and the tiers reduced down accordingly.
Cryptic is a business, and business exists to make money. Considering what we get on t6 ships I don't see the price point as unreasonable.
*******
You think charging half the price of a brand new game for what might be a $1-5 DLC in other games reasonable? I guess if World of Warships is your reference...
The biggest production cost is in artwork, and I know guys that produce this level in a weekend. There's barely a latte worth of work for a decent coder, and by this time they must have a framework in place, so less work. So then you have your time constraints and liabilities in licensing, legal, QA, and store integration. So another couple of days, over a few weeks, some corrections and back and forth. 12 weeks is a ludicrous claim unless that's all waiting on approvals. I've published entire video surveillance systems for PC in that time from one engineer. What's the cost $1000? $2000? $5000? I'd be shocked and alarmed if it was too much more. So unless the projected sales are under 200 units, there is no need for the price to be so high.
I don't begrudge Crypic and PWE for making money, and I have certainly given them enough to account for ten or more completely freeloaders, but their "microtransaction" store is anything but. Prices be high for digital goods. Very high indeed if you factor in the risk.
Personally, as with other games of this ilk, it looks like they are trying to sell you the game with one purchase, then sell it again with the next. Which I suppose makes sense if you only expect one purchase. I'm suspicious that the pricing may be to dissuade Z-farmers, too bad that it probably dissuades sales, too.
Bafflingly, this opinion does not seem to resonate with the "free-to-pay" crowd.
"Garbage" may be too strong a word for what you get for $30, but once you have a ship or two that you enjoy, well, the rest does sometimes feel a bit more like a burden than an asset. Too much of a good thing and all.
I don't know the specifics of Cryptic and PWE's operations and liabilities, but I can easily find out that they are extremely profitable. With decades of experience in custom electronics, I can tell you that I can make physical electronics and sell for reasonable profit (40-50%) for less than the cost of Cryptic's "mega packs", and while they make 1 unit and sell it a thousand times, I have to make all 1000 units. Windows is only $50 more than the megapacks (yes Windows is grossly overpriced, too).
But then there's whales, and foolish people like me that have supported these sales. Nothing will change unless we do. I don't see that happening. Doesn't mean that I have to like it or accept these seemingly spurious claims.
End old man grumpiness
This statement is vastly incorrect. The difference between T5U and T6 is small. A little subsystems power and 1 boff power on average does not make a huge difference. My KDF still fly the T5U Fleet Kar'Fi, and it is one the best carriers in the game despite being many years older!
T5U and T6 hold the same amount of consoles and similar stats otherwise, and I'm not bothered about specialist seats because things that worked years ago still do now!
It's your equipment and powersthat makes the ship effective, not the other way around.
This statement reflects only variable costs - and a limited set at that of those variable costs.
Ship and c-store sales in general are what keep the lights on and servers running. According to wikipedia, Cryptic Studios has over 100 employees with offices in Los Gatos, CA.
In addition to the developers who focus on STO, there are going to be sales and marketing, admin and support, rent and utilities, licensing, server - all the GL stuff.
Even if all the costs that you could allocate were only $1 million per year, you'd have to sell 2750 ships/month to cover that - and $1 million would barely cover the costs of 10 people who make $75K (the usual expense is 125%-130% of salary to cover total employee costs). Ship sales probably spike in the first quarter after rollout, but decline precipitously afterwards, except for those handful of ships with traits or consoles on the current meta. At 2750 ships per $1 million in annual operating expenses (and let's remember that the majority of sales probably actually happen during the big sales), you're looking at selling a lot of ships.
And of course, none of that includes the necessary return on investment for Perfect World who would find other uses for its capital if the returns were not sufficient to meet owners' expectations.
The tradeoff, of course, is healthy player base growth. I just can't see that reducing the prices of ships is going to drive that growth compared to the necessary investment in the core game.
So even though this game is way old now compared to the overall industry they are trying to cater to the kind of players who don't work a regular job but more so of having large sums of currency to throw at it. So Joe working 9 to 5 is going to see Star Trek Online isn't an approachable game to play. So all of this boils down to needing to have the right content at the right prices especially if they plan on releasing tier 7 ships next month kinda like DR was with T6's is one big reason I very casually play anymore because putting too much time/money into this game is counter productive when I can spend my money and time on something that is going to be somewhat meaningful.
Tier 7 isn't happening any time this decade.
The Jupiter isn't going to become OP if it's finally given a secondary deflector and sensor analysis now
I also feel that Cryptic offers an excellent F2P model with a ton of options and gaming content available to everyone, for free.
(That said, I feel Cryptic is often very out of touch with its' player base, and/or approaches game design/coding/dealing with problems in a very casual and careless manner.)
Elite Starter Service pack? Amazing value. Vanguard Starter and Full packs? Great value! Discover Starter pack? Decent value when it was discounted. Discovery Operations Pack? Not even in the same neighbourhood as the others.
Cryptic is a business. They exist to produce a product and earn a profit, and overall they do pretty decently. I am a consumer. I choose where to spend my limited gaming dollars from a wide variety of other MMOs, PC games, and console games.
When I can buy a full, new triple-A title for the price of two, obsolete T5 ships, it's pretty clear to me where my purchasing power is going to go.
As it is, Cryptic is relying on nostalgia and IP-loyalty to sell products that are not of comparative value to other choices I have readily available. If you want a share of "what's in MY wallet", you better compete with what's out there.
First, here's your major difference, you're not a full on gaming studio producing a tripple A title like Cryptic is, nor will your kind of business have the same types of costs that Cryptic does. Secondly as another already pointed out, your level of cost varies, there's typically does not in this instance. If you want to know why it takes that long to get a ship into game, you would have to ask them since they don't exactly tell me those things. Simply getting the ships in game isn't enough as you must also program their seatings as well as any consoles or other fun stuff they may come with.
The game is setup so that folks can acquire most anything in the game with 2 options. Either they can drop cash for it, or they can grind for it, or perhaps even a little of both. I don't care to drop cash to buy things from time to time because to me I get an equal or greater value back on my cash in the form of entertainment. If you think a price is too high, or just don't have the cash, you can grind it out by flipping dilithium to zen, or grinding part of it out to supplement a cash drop. Point being you have options in how you go about acquiring the ships and items in game. In regards to the transactions here in STO, every single item I have, minus the lifetime ships and similar items, a free to play person can also obtain, but it will take them longer to do it.
STO is one of the only true free to play games out there. If you want to see a truly restrictive free to play model, go look at SWTOR and some of the petty restrictions they have. I rather enjoy SWTOR but there is no reason for some of the restrictions they have. The good thing about STO is there are none of those restrictions.
With that said you can refine 8k dilithium per toon per day on your account, and it's easy enough to get 20+ toons to cap out per day if you play your cards right. Sometimes I have flipped dilithium to zen, sometimes I have used actual cash.
As for your DLC example it's flawed because again you're trying to quantify entertainment value the ships and/or other items may bring which is largely subjective. Where as I may see $30 of entertainment value in those ships you may not, and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, you have a choice in whether or not you choose to purchase that DLC or not. If you think that they're asking too much then vote with your wallet. I really don't understand why people will make an optional purchase, and then turn around and complain they paid too much. If you think you paid too much, why did you buy it to start with? Point being you have options, and if you think something is too high then don't buy it.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It's also fine to complain about prices as long as you're not ranting and insulting Cryptic staff or other players.
What many people don't seem to get is that just because you and your friends or chat buddies would buy more ships priced at $10 DOES NOT mean that Cryptic would make more money "because volume."
I'd buy more ships myself at $10 per ship. But Cryptic has the numbers from list prices, weekend sale prices, Black Friday prices, and so on. They have a much better idea than we do how much money they will make from any given price point.
They're trying to push a new higher price per ship for the Discovery big pack. If the poll here is correct and most of us aren't going to buy it they will add that new data and decide what to do next. My wild guess is we'll see a 50% off flash sale or weekend sale later on after they've gotten their money from the people who will pay more.
I do agree that T5 ships should see a significant permanent cost reduction as they are overpriced compared to the T6 ships. But Cryptic doesn't see the need so I assume they are selling well enough too.
for myself, I'm no longer a potential market for there ships. I'll reconsider once they get pass making Discovery based stuff. Hoping it's cancelled after this season.
Just have to grind the heck out of in game currency.......which means playing the game A LOT.
And Cryptic does not seem to mind us doing just that at all. LOL!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
If they were 10€ a piece I'd probably buy one now or then. But I don't feel I'm entitled to it.
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Not every ship. I can name four that you can't get for free. T5-U veteran ship, T6 veteran ship, veteran shuttle, and the T1 Andorian Kumari Light Escort. You can't grind to bypass subscription requirements, or the no longer offered Hero of the North Founder's Pack.
But I spend real money twice a year...because I play every day and use the forums. And I know all of it costs moola to maintain. And even when nothing is going wrong, there are people who's job it is to keep it up.
My hubby has been in the IT field a long time, I been watching him from the sidelines. I know, it is a pretty thankless task most of the time. With people asking for fixes to suit them, or to cover up their errors, so he ended up doing extras off the books and/or off the clock.
We decided early on, if we use programs from the internet, it is ok to spend some money to sustain the structure once in a while.
And if I get entertainment for it at the same time....even better!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
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