More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
Formerly known as Risian4. Risian6 is my new PS4-account. Fleetcaptain5 is my main PC account. I hope to actively play again on PC in a few months.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
Yup. I agree. In General..Unless your with specific players who know how to make GW work EVEN against Tzenkethi
..DONT GW!!..
However..There are some of us who can kill Tzenkethi all grouped up (Its alot of debuffing in my sci ship + Several AOE abilities like TBR and Photonic Shockwave, Certain Drain shield abilities and Radiation bursts)..I usually do it when Im alone with in a pug against of Tzenkethi. When I get a player wanting to assist..Ill refrain from using GW as im trying to "model" good tactics.
I get what you're saying about GW and grouping them up not working.
However, the single worst experience I have ever had in the game was when I tried to use TBR in a pug TFO. Because the cannon escort people (multiple) objected to me pushing the enemies out of their firing arcs, etcetera. They decided to sit back and go AFK and spend 100% of their time telling me that if I wanted to use that "travesty" I could *****ing well complete the whole **** queue myself. In all caps. With more insults.
(It wasn't this particular queue, but still. I would rather not use TBR.)
IS THERE ANY OTHER OPTION you would suggest?
The information being presented here on fighting the Tzenkethi is pretty awesome.
However, it truly pains me to see someone allow some random players have power over them in the way this user describes.
Play the way you want to play.
If other players do not like it, that is their problem, please do not allow it to become yours.
Just because a couple bullies through around text in a chat window is no reason for anyone to follow their terrible examples and advice.
Please do not let the bullies and their FUD ruin your play time.
More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
How many points in drain expertise do you need to drop their shields with tykens?
I have a science alt I haven't touched in years because I got tired of him feeling useless in STF's.
I might bring him out if I could put him in a ship with a good mix of sci and tac consoles. If he can drop their shields with tykens and then blow them up with pew pew he would be more useful than my tac captain in some cases.
More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
How many points in drain expertise do you need to drop their shields with tykens?
I have a science alt I haven't touched in years because I got tired of him feeling useless in STF's.
I might bring him out if I could put him in a ship with a good mix of sci and tac consoles. If he can drop their shields with tykens and then blow them up with pew pew he would be more useful than my tac captain in some cases.
It would depend entirely on the Tzenkethi (more like if they have any drain resistance or not)..
If they have no drain resistance.
A 400 drainX ship with Tykens 3 would drain them in about 3 seconds.With Drain resistance...That same ability and ship would be closer to 6 seconds...(Keep in mind Tyken Targets All Subsystem power..which is different than shield drains)
Also at 400 Drain X a Quantum Phase torpedo under torp spread (Shield drain also gets better with rarity) is around 30k all shields.
Coupled with the Omni Directional Tachyon Wave Siphon console or Tachyon Particle Field Emitter....(from memory each is 5k-9k all shields per sec for 10 sec) That should take care of shields.Keep in mind these are restricted consoles for their respective ships.
I could test the exact today as I run an 800 DrainX ship (normally in pugs).
More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
How many points in drain expertise do you need to drop their shields with tykens?
I have a science alt I haven't touched in years because I got tired of him feeling useless in STF's.
I might bring him out if I could put him in a ship with a good mix of sci and tac consoles. If he can drop their shields with tykens and then blow them up with pew pew he would be more useful than my tac captain in some cases.
Eh..Well 400 is a good start..
It would depend entirely on the Tzenkethi (more like if they have any drain resistance or not)..If they have no drain resistance..A 400 drainX ship with Tykens 3 would drain all subsystems in about 3 seconds.With Drain resistance...That same ability and ship would be closer to 6 seconds.
Also at 400 Drain X a Quantum Phase torpedo under torp spread (Shield drain also gets better with rarity) is around 30k all shields. Coupled with the Omni Driectional Tachyon Wave Siphon console...(from memory this is 5-9k all shields per sec for 10 sec) That should take care of shields.
I could test the exact today as I run an 800 DrainX ship (normally in pugs).
The Tachyon Particle Field Emitter(Ship restricted), Aceton Assimilator and Siphon Drones (shield or subsystem variant depending on you allegiance) are good substitutions
More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
from my observations, it takes some pretty good drain stats to make that work. Something like the 'Vampire builds' posted in the Academy could use this with impunity-but most players don't skill that deeply into drains or debuffs. (again, it's a matter of general usage. most PuG runs aren't going to have good specialist builds like that, and most people who use Gravity well do so as a 'generalist' do-all power.)
More serious comment: Tyken's rift works really well against Tzenkethi. When their shields go down, it seems to remove the high resistances that those cruisers have.
How many points in drain expertise do you need to drop their shields with tykens?
I have a science alt I haven't touched in years because I got tired of him feeling useless in STF's.
I might bring him out if I could put him in a ship with a good mix of sci and tac consoles. If he can drop their shields with tykens and then blow them up with pew pew he would be more useful than my tac captain in some cases.
Hm my science characters usually specialise in partigens. Drain generally isn't the main thing I'm speccing in. The consoles from the lab (the ones I used) boost both... but it was more for partigens.
Haven't fought many Tzenkethi yet on my new PS4 toon. But I think that my old PC main Sci had something like 250-300 drain, maximum. It was definitely lower than partigens, which was in the 450-500 range if I remember correctly.
His Vesta had usually four, sometimes five of those research lab consoles equipped (which would give like... 200 drain skill when fully upgraded?). The Romulan reputation set and Solanae epic episode deflector may have added some, but besides that I did not really invest in it.
I may be forgetting some stuff that did boost it though. As said, I never really paid much specific attention to it when I was collecting my stuff on that toon. I do know, though, that even without such dedication, Tyken's rift worked pretty well.
Though I should add that I also used a Polaron beam and sometimes Power siphon.
So yeah, I guess the bottom line is that a few dedicated consoles can get you pretty far in that it might provide a short (couple of seconds) window of opportunity. Also, keep in mind that even a low drain will still diminish the enemy's power levels and therefore their energy attacks. So as a defensive measure it also helps in that sense.
Formerly known as Risian4. Risian6 is my new PS4-account. Fleetcaptain5 is my main PC account. I hope to actively play again on PC in a few months.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
I am that guy. I strategically drop grav wells to control the enemy. My 12k wells grab many enemies and as you say, they become nearly indestructible.
Now if the point were to destroy them then my efforts would in fact be contrary to finishing the mission. However, the mission is to destroy the Tzenkethi Bases. My grav wells pull enemies away and make it easier to drop bombs.
Today, all bases were destroyed save 1. I tossed a grav well in the middle to grab all those Tzenkethi attacking bombs and hold them in place. I did leave 2 free to destroy and someone already had a bomb and was heading to do his job.
In this instance I was playing to my ships strength (control). And saving the optional in the process. And you k ow what... we won with all optionals.
In conclusion I hear your argument and understand your POV. Your strength is DPS and my strength is Control which nulifies your DPS in this tfo. Surely there is room for both. Surely grav wells aren’t all bad.
So the general consensus is that my question is flawed and not worthy of being answered?
I get that GW is bad in these situations. I don't want to use TBR because I literally got spammed with profanity-laced private messages by three players simultaneously, WHILE being left to 2-man an entire queue, the last time I had it on a ship. I would really like to have seen a viable third option presented. Instead I get blamed for listening to them?
Well... next time you're in a Tzenkethi PVE and see a science ship AFK way off on the side, think about this discussion.
Afk-ing is never the solution. TBR or Reverse TBR and various sci abilities mentioned are the things to go for.
When you receive any further profanity filled PM for use of TBR in the queue then be proud for having better knowledge than the IQ lacking person who spouts said profanity.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
So the general consensus is that my question is flawed and not worthy of being answered?
I get that GW is bad in these situations. I don't want to use TBR because I literally got spammed with profanity-laced private messages by three players simultaneously, WHILE being left to 2-man an entire queue, the last time I had it on a ship. I would really like to have seen a viable third option presented. Instead I get blamed for listening to them?
Well... next time you're in a Tzenkethi PVE and see a science ship AFK way off on the side, think about this discussion.
Afk-ing is never the solution. TBR or Reverse TBR and various sci abilities mentioned are the things to go for.
When you receive any further profanity filled PM for use of TBR in the queue then be proud for having better knowledge than the IQ lacking person who spouts said profanity.
I think you're missing the part where it was three people, who were otherwise AFK, doing it at the same time. And I was actually trying to complete the queue. And then (when it finally succeded) mocking me for doing all the work and them getting the rewards. It was HELL. Excuse me for not wanting to go there again.
Coldnapalm's comments - although phrased a lot nicer - are basically what they were saying: that I was ruining their ability to fight by pushing the targets away from them, out of firing arcs, etcetera.
I don't think Tyken's is really a viable solution... various comments I've seen indicate that it really wouldn't be effective without a lot more drain than my build has, and the movement disable would seem to have the same issues as GW anyway.
The next time the *sshats go off on you, find the biggest Tzenkethi ship you can, and TBR that sucker right to them. Either they'll shut up and kill it or they'll respawn.
I am that guy. I strategically drop grav wells to control the enemy. My 12k wells grab many enemies and as you say, they become nearly indestructible.
Now if the point were to destroy them then my efforts would in fact be contrary to finishing the mission. However, the mission is to destroy the Tzenkethi Bases. My grav wells pull enemies away and make it easier to drop bombs.
Today, all bases were destroyed save 1. I tossed a grav well in the middle to grab all those Tzenkethi attacking bombs and hold them in place. I did leave 2 free to destroy and someone already had a bomb and was heading to do his job.
In this instance I was playing to my ships strength (control). And saving the optional in the process. And you k ow what... we won with all optionals.
In conclusion I hear your argument and understand your POV. Your strength is DPS and my strength is Control which nulifies your DPS in this tfo. Surely there is room for both. Surely grav wells aren’t all bad.
in Tzenkethi Front, your move is positive-it's a bigger map, and more spread out, and the mobs generate further away.
in 'Gravity kills' your move DOES go contrary to finishing the mission, and it's all about how big the map is, and where the mobs spawn-they spawn WAY too close to the objectives, and when you do that, you put mission completion in danger, so yeah there's a place for it-but it's really team dependent and map dependent, but it's also opponent dependent. in Tzenkethi Front, you can 'go around' more easily until the Dreadnought phase, you've got a wider 'playground' to work with, and the mobs spawn further out, making your tactic viable IF it's placed correctly.
In 'Gravity Kills' you don't have nearly the play-space to work with, and the first phase IS a "Kill the enemy" phase (you have to do away with the first mob before you can go after the Hawking particles), and that's usually the phase where a Gravy-user will TRIBBLE the mission's timer, along with getting teammates sent to respawn as the whole mob drops Torp Spread III with the tetryon, shield-ignoring torpedoes on everyone in range while being immune to damage.
So the general consensus is that my question is flawed and not worthy of being answered?
I get that GW is bad in these situations. I don't want to use TBR because I literally got spammed with profanity-laced private messages by three players simultaneously, WHILE being left to 2-man an entire queue, the last time I had it on a ship. I would really like to have seen a viable third option presented. Instead I get blamed for listening to them?
Well... next time you're in a Tzenkethi PVE and see a science ship AFK way off on the side, think about this discussion.
Things that might work is a combination of the two though.
Use TBR to push enemies away from the objective (be it the Jupiter, or those bases so that you can protect the players collecting the particles) and keep them there with a gravity well.
I've never used TBR that much so I'm not sure how well this would work - but combined with the well it may be a good alternative.
Formerly known as Risian4. Risian6 is my new PS4-account. Fleetcaptain5 is my main PC account. I hope to actively play again on PC in a few months.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
Cause you're right that killing enemies isn't the main goal (at least after the first phase) in that mission. Like in so many other missions where killing stuff faster, will only result in more enemies spawning at a faster rate.
It's not just the Tzenkethi that become immune/highly resistance - in missions like ... Dranuur assault or something where the goal is to protect the satellites, pushing enemies away may also be the more logical option rather than killing them.
And perhaps the best example is that horrible map called Procyon V. I'm still waiting for an instance where a good control captain sorts out the mess that it usually quickly becomes.
Players who know how and when to use such abilities as GW and TBR, can definitely make themselves useful, also in Gravity kills I think. The main problem is that it requires acknowledging that just shooting stuff is not always the best option, depending on how good your team is at that.
Formerly known as Risian4. Risian6 is my new PS4-account. Fleetcaptain5 is my main PC account. I hope to actively play again on PC in a few months.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
@westmetals there's been numerous alternatives suggested to you in this thread.
Firstly, using GW is bad, unless you really know what you're doing and are dropping it miles off to the side to pull enemies out of range of a station for example and clear a path. So the initial suggestion by Patrick of NOT using it is correct.
Secondly, if idiots want to have a go at you for playing a game and doing what you can to try and win then THEY are the problem not you. Nowhere in any rule book for STO does it say you cannot play your own way to complete the mission and if their DPS scores and cannon builds are so special they cannot handle a moving target rather than a stationary shooting gallery then are they really worth worrying about?
Now with regards to alternatives:
DPS the Tzenkethi: This is maybe not an option for many people because they are a tough enemy to just batter down with sheer firepower, especially without any fancy debuffs or shield removing attacks. But it's an option.
Tyken's Rift: With low drain skill it's probably not worth it but anything upwards of 400 (pretty easy to get actually) should shut them down in seconds. Plus drain affects things like polaron weapons, quantum phase torps, certain traits that cause offlines (Reverberation springs to mind) so there's a variety of extra things that all work together here.
Ignore their shields: Some sci abilities like Subspace Vortex or a shed load of radiation damage will just go right through shields so you don't need to worry about them. Some weapons like the PEP torp and even EWP abilities will go through them too and leave AOE and DOT attacks in place.
Viral Matrix: An odd one as nearly nobody uses it but when doff'd to shutdown additional systems and jump to nearby enemies this can be pretty effective and leaving their group helpless. Of course you need to bring the damage along as well so pack some good weapons too or get a friend to tag along with a DPS build. DrainX also affects this ability.
Tractor Beam Repulsors: You can use this one of two ways; push them which is good for Gravity Kills as you can push them into the singularity event horizon. Or you can use a doffed version and tow them all away well out of range of the friendlies or the objective (but bear in mind they'll be trying to kill you as you tow them). You could combine the tow-truck tactic with the new Sto'rr trait and console for some fiery fun and also a few mines and EWP/Coolant Ignition to drop in their face as you pull them away.
Tractor Beam Repulsors: You can use this one of two ways; push them which is good for Gravity Kills as you can push them into the singularity event horizon. Or you can use a doffed version and tow them all away well out of range of the friendlies or the objective (but bear in mind they'll be trying to kill you as you tow them). You could combine the tow-truck tactic with the new Sto'rr trait and console for some fiery fun and also a few mines and EWP/Coolant Ignition to drop in their face as you pull them away.
That... sounds very fun indeed.
I've never used mines, nor have I used the S'torr's trait thus far... but this may just have become something I'm going to try out soon.
Formerly known as Risian4. Risian6 is my new PS4-account. Fleetcaptain5 is my main PC account. I hope to actively play again on PC in a few months.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
I think you're missing the part where it was three people, who were otherwise AFK, doing it at the same time. And I was actually trying to complete the queue. And then (when it finally succeded) mocking me for doing all the work and them getting the rewards. It was HELL. Excuse me for not wanting to go there again.
So?
Do you actually think that the moment you spec out a better, recommended way to complete this content that there are mean people just waiting to log in and attack your playstyle? Really?
It is very difficult for me to undestand someone that asks for advice, gets good direction, and then ignores that good information over irrational FUD.
Then, to continue to basically keep pushing people to come up with whacky alternate solutions to an irrational problem, seems pretty rude, IMO, all the while claiming to be the victim of other people disparaging your tactics, while disparaging the advice.
I don't get what it is you think you are going to find here, a magic button to prevent mean players from texting you?
So the general consensus is that my question is flawed and not worthy of being answered?
I get that GW is bad in these situations. I don't want to use TBR because I literally got spammed with profanity-laced private messages by three players simultaneously, WHILE being left to 2-man an entire queue, the last time I had it on a ship. I would really like to have seen a viable third option presented. Instead I get blamed for listening to them?
Well... next time you're in a Tzenkethi PVE and see a science ship AFK way off on the side, think about this discussion.
Afk-ing is never the solution. TBR or Reverse TBR and various sci abilities mentioned are the things to go for.
When you receive any further profanity filled PM for use of TBR in the queue then be proud for having better knowledge than the IQ lacking person who spouts said profanity.
Reverse TBR has the same issue as GW against tzen...which is it groups them together. As for advising random people to TBR...once again, BAD idea. Unless you actually know what you are doing, pushing even tzen outside the fire range and arc of your cannon escort vapers is not a good idea. It does not help the map unless you are aiming to shove them into the black hole. In fact GW them so they can chain WCB works out better. Yes, GW is not ideal against the tzen...but it sure as hell beats somebody with TBR not knowing what they are doing flinging targets every where so I can't so my job of vaping them. Honestly the best advice I have seen is if you are in a sci boat, swap out to tykens.
But you can drag the Tzenketti into the event horizon to be crushed. The Tzenketti also have difficulty targeting you with their torpedo spreads while being pulled.
Same for a well placed GW sucking all the Tzenketti in range into the event horizon to be crushed.
It's all about knowing when and how to use specific abilities, but not necessarily catering to the cannon crowd because they like their targets in small packages.
What's next? No science against the Voth because it gives the cannon crowd an inferiority complex?
Edit: No offense, but if you're worth your salt then you (in general) can adapt to a situation and this also goes for (profanity spouting) cannons users.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Cause you're right that killing enemies isn't the main goal (at least after the first phase) in that mission. Like in so many other missions where killing stuff faster, will only result in more enemies spawning at a faster rate.
It's not just the Tzenkethi that become immune/highly resistance - in missions like ... Dranuur assault or something where the goal is to protect the satellites, pushing enemies away may also be the more logical option rather than killing them.
And perhaps the best example is that horrible map called Procyon V. I'm still waiting for an instance where a good control captain sorts out the mess that it usually quickly becomes.
Players who know how and when to use such abilities as GW and TBR, can definitely make themselves useful, also in Gravity kills I think. The main problem is that it requires acknowledging that just shooting stuff is not always the best option, depending on how good your team is at that.
That's right. In all the DPS talk a lot of players forget that killing enemies isn't always the point, or necessarily even all that useful.
There are places in which pushing/pulling the enemy away and leaving them there is tactically superior to killing them, because flying back into the fight would take them longer than respawning.
Tyken's Rift: With low drain skill it's probably not worth it but anything upwards of 400 (pretty easy to get actually) should shut them down in seconds. Plus drain affects things like polaron weapons, quantum phase torps, certain traits that cause offlines (Reverberation springs to mind) so there's a variety of extra things that all work together here.
The Neutronic Torpedo launcher from the Delta rep also inflicts a guaranteed drain on target subsystems. If you use it only for the drain you can dedicate your tac consoles to buffing energy weapons.
I might set up my alt to focus on drain and get him the Palatine T6 science ship. Combine Tyken's with the Neutronic torp using spread, and once the shields drop follow up with scatter volley. The Palatine also has temporal seating and there's a temporal version of gravity well and it looks like it doesn't share a cooldown with tykens.
Has a hangar too, I could use the elite scorpions from the romulan rep that have high yield plasma torps.
It wouldn't do as much damage as my tac captain in his s'torr, but I don't think he would do bad, and I wonder if he could handle Tzenkethi better.
Tyken's Rift: With low drain skill it's probably not worth it but anything upwards of 400 (pretty easy to get actually) should shut them down in seconds. Plus drain affects things like polaron weapons, quantum phase torps, certain traits that cause offlines (Reverberation springs to mind) so there's a variety of extra things that all work together here.
The Neutronic Torpedo launcher from the Delta rep also inflicts a guaranteed drain on target subsystems. If you use it only for the drain you can dedicate your tac consoles to buffing energy weapons.
I might set up my alt to focus on drain and get him the Palatine T6 science ship. Combine Tyken's with the Neutronic torp using spread, and once the shields drop follow up with scatter volley. The Palatine also has temporal seating and there's a temporal version of gravity well and it looks like it doesn't share a cooldown with tykens.
Has a hangar too, I could use the elite scorpions from the romulan rep that have high yield plasma torps.
It wouldn't do as much damage as my tac captain in his s'torr, but I don't think he would do bad, and I wonder if he could handle Tzenkethi better.
It's fun to drag Tzenketti with the fire chain console into the event horizon.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Cause you're right that killing enemies isn't the main goal (at least after the first phase) in that mission. Like in so many other missions where killing stuff faster, will only result in more enemies spawning at a faster rate.
It's not just the Tzenkethi that become immune/highly resistance - in missions like ... Dranuur assault or something where the goal is to protect the satellites, pushing enemies away may also be the more logical option rather than killing them.
And perhaps the best example is that horrible map called Procyon V. I'm still waiting for an instance where a good control captain sorts out the mess that it usually quickly becomes.
Players who know how and when to use such abilities as GW and TBR, can definitely make themselves useful, also in Gravity kills I think. The main problem is that it requires acknowledging that just shooting stuff is not always the best option, depending on how good your team is at that.
That's right. In all the DPS talk a lot of players forget that killing enemies isn't always the point, or necessarily even all that useful.
There are places in which pushing/pulling the enemy away and leaving them there is tactically superior to killing them, because flying back into the fight would take them longer than respawning.
Absolutely right.
In Gravity Kills for example killing the Tzeks attacking the Jupiter actually makes even more spawn in, they are never ending. So you're actually better off using something like TBR and towing/pushing away a group so they are 10-20km away and no threat, but replacements won't spawn in to replace them. A single sci ship playing Jupiter-guard with TBR can push the attackers half way across the map so they are zero threat to anyone.
It's not always about killing things, and the Tzenkethi maps are actually good examples of times when you can complete things without going in for the kill all the time.
Comments
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
..DONT GW!!..
However..There are some of us who can kill Tzenkethi all grouped up (Its alot of debuffing in my sci ship + Several AOE abilities like TBR and Photonic Shockwave, Certain Drain shield abilities and Radiation bursts)..I usually do it when Im alone with in a pug against of Tzenkethi. When I get a player wanting to assist..Ill refrain from using GW as im trying to "model" good tactics.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
The information being presented here on fighting the Tzenkethi is pretty awesome.
However, it truly pains me to see someone allow some random players have power over them in the way this user describes.
Play the way you want to play.
If other players do not like it, that is their problem, please do not allow it to become yours.
Just because a couple bullies through around text in a chat window is no reason for anyone to follow their terrible examples and advice.
Please do not let the bullies and their FUD ruin your play time.
How many points in drain expertise do you need to drop their shields with tykens?
I have a science alt I haven't touched in years because I got tired of him feeling useless in STF's.
I might bring him out if I could put him in a ship with a good mix of sci and tac consoles. If he can drop their shields with tykens and then blow them up with pew pew he would be more useful than my tac captain in some cases.
It would depend entirely on the Tzenkethi (more like if they have any drain resistance or not)..
If they have no drain resistance.
A 400 drainX ship with Tykens 3 would drain them in about 3 seconds.With Drain resistance...That same ability and ship would be closer to 6 seconds...(Keep in mind Tyken Targets All Subsystem power..which is different than shield drains)
Also at 400 Drain X a Quantum Phase torpedo under torp spread (Shield drain also gets better with rarity) is around 30k all shields.
Coupled with the Omni Directional Tachyon Wave Siphon console or Tachyon Particle Field Emitter....(from memory each is 5k-9k all shields per sec for 10 sec) That should take care of shields.Keep in mind these are restricted consoles for their respective ships.
I could test the exact today as I run an 800 DrainX ship (normally in pugs).
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Eh..Well 400 is a good start..
It would depend entirely on the Tzenkethi (more like if they have any drain resistance or not)..If they have no drain resistance..A 400 drainX ship with Tykens 3 would drain all subsystems in about 3 seconds.With Drain resistance...That same ability and ship would be closer to 6 seconds.
Also at 400 Drain X a Quantum Phase torpedo under torp spread (Shield drain also gets better with rarity) is around 30k all shields. Coupled with the Omni Driectional Tachyon Wave Siphon console...(from memory this is 5-9k all shields per sec for 10 sec) That should take care of shields.
I could test the exact today as I run an 800 DrainX ship (normally in pugs).
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Hm my science characters usually specialise in partigens. Drain generally isn't the main thing I'm speccing in. The consoles from the lab (the ones I used) boost both... but it was more for partigens.
Haven't fought many Tzenkethi yet on my new PS4 toon. But I think that my old PC main Sci had something like 250-300 drain, maximum. It was definitely lower than partigens, which was in the 450-500 range if I remember correctly.
His Vesta had usually four, sometimes five of those research lab consoles equipped (which would give like... 200 drain skill when fully upgraded?). The Romulan reputation set and Solanae epic episode deflector may have added some, but besides that I did not really invest in it.
I may be forgetting some stuff that did boost it though. As said, I never really paid much specific attention to it when I was collecting my stuff on that toon. I do know, though, that even without such dedication, Tyken's rift worked pretty well.
Though I should add that I also used a Polaron beam and sometimes Power siphon.
So yeah, I guess the bottom line is that a few dedicated consoles can get you pretty far in that it might provide a short (couple of seconds) window of opportunity. Also, keep in mind that even a low drain will still diminish the enemy's power levels and therefore their energy attacks. So as a defensive measure it also helps in that sense.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
Now if the point were to destroy them then my efforts would in fact be contrary to finishing the mission. However, the mission is to destroy the Tzenkethi Bases. My grav wells pull enemies away and make it easier to drop bombs.
Today, all bases were destroyed save 1. I tossed a grav well in the middle to grab all those Tzenkethi attacking bombs and hold them in place. I did leave 2 free to destroy and someone already had a bomb and was heading to do his job.
In this instance I was playing to my ships strength (control). And saving the optional in the process. And you k ow what... we won with all optionals.
In conclusion I hear your argument and understand your POV. Your strength is DPS and my strength is Control which nulifies your DPS in this tfo. Surely there is room for both. Surely grav wells aren’t all bad.
Afk-ing is never the solution. TBR or Reverse TBR and various sci abilities mentioned are the things to go for.
When you receive any further profanity filled PM for use of TBR in the queue then be proud for having better knowledge than the IQ lacking person who spouts said profanity.
The next time the *sshats go off on you, find the biggest Tzenkethi ship you can, and TBR that sucker right to them. Either they'll shut up and kill it or they'll respawn.
Things that might work is a combination of the two though.
Use TBR to push enemies away from the objective (be it the Jupiter, or those bases so that you can protect the players collecting the particles) and keep them there with a gravity well.
I've never used TBR that much so I'm not sure how well this would work - but combined with the well it may be a good alternative.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
It's not just the Tzenkethi that become immune/highly resistance - in missions like ... Dranuur assault or something where the goal is to protect the satellites, pushing enemies away may also be the more logical option rather than killing them.
And perhaps the best example is that horrible map called Procyon V. I'm still waiting for an instance where a good control captain sorts out the mess that it usually quickly becomes.
Players who know how and when to use such abilities as GW and TBR, can definitely make themselves useful, also in Gravity kills I think. The main problem is that it requires acknowledging that just shooting stuff is not always the best option, depending on how good your team is at that.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
Firstly, using GW is bad, unless you really know what you're doing and are dropping it miles off to the side to pull enemies out of range of a station for example and clear a path. So the initial suggestion by Patrick of NOT using it is correct.
Secondly, if idiots want to have a go at you for playing a game and doing what you can to try and win then THEY are the problem not you. Nowhere in any rule book for STO does it say you cannot play your own way to complete the mission and if their DPS scores and cannon builds are so special they cannot handle a moving target rather than a stationary shooting gallery then are they really worth worrying about?
Now with regards to alternatives:
DPS the Tzenkethi: This is maybe not an option for many people because they are a tough enemy to just batter down with sheer firepower, especially without any fancy debuffs or shield removing attacks. But it's an option.
Tyken's Rift: With low drain skill it's probably not worth it but anything upwards of 400 (pretty easy to get actually) should shut them down in seconds. Plus drain affects things like polaron weapons, quantum phase torps, certain traits that cause offlines (Reverberation springs to mind) so there's a variety of extra things that all work together here.
Ignore their shields: Some sci abilities like Subspace Vortex or a shed load of radiation damage will just go right through shields so you don't need to worry about them. Some weapons like the PEP torp and even EWP abilities will go through them too and leave AOE and DOT attacks in place.
Viral Matrix: An odd one as nearly nobody uses it but when doff'd to shutdown additional systems and jump to nearby enemies this can be pretty effective and leaving their group helpless. Of course you need to bring the damage along as well so pack some good weapons too or get a friend to tag along with a DPS build. DrainX also affects this ability.
Tractor Beam Repulsors: You can use this one of two ways; push them which is good for Gravity Kills as you can push them into the singularity event horizon. Or you can use a doffed version and tow them all away well out of range of the friendlies or the objective (but bear in mind they'll be trying to kill you as you tow them). You could combine the tow-truck tactic with the new Sto'rr trait and console for some fiery fun and also a few mines and EWP/Coolant Ignition to drop in their face as you pull them away.
That... sounds very fun indeed.
I've never used mines, nor have I used the S'torr's trait thus far... but this may just have become something I'm going to try out soon.
Now that that's made clear... on to the next issue: when are playable Voth coming, and where's are my T7 Vesta and C-store purchasable real life shuttle?
So?
Do you actually think that the moment you spec out a better, recommended way to complete this content that there are mean people just waiting to log in and attack your playstyle? Really?
It is very difficult for me to undestand someone that asks for advice, gets good direction, and then ignores that good information over irrational FUD.
Then, to continue to basically keep pushing people to come up with whacky alternate solutions to an irrational problem, seems pretty rude, IMO, all the while claiming to be the victim of other people disparaging your tactics, while disparaging the advice.
I don't get what it is you think you are going to find here, a magic button to prevent mean players from texting you?
But you can drag the Tzenketti into the event horizon to be crushed. The Tzenketti also have difficulty targeting you with their torpedo spreads while being pulled.
Same for a well placed GW sucking all the Tzenketti in range into the event horizon to be crushed.
It's all about knowing when and how to use specific abilities, but not necessarily catering to the cannon crowd because they like their targets in small packages.
What's next? No science against the Voth because it gives the cannon crowd an inferiority complex?
Edit: No offense, but if you're worth your salt then you (in general) can adapt to a situation and this also goes for (profanity spouting) cannons users.
There are places in which pushing/pulling the enemy away and leaving them there is tactically superior to killing them, because flying back into the fight would take them longer than respawning.
The Neutronic Torpedo launcher from the Delta rep also inflicts a guaranteed drain on target subsystems. If you use it only for the drain you can dedicate your tac consoles to buffing energy weapons.
I might set up my alt to focus on drain and get him the Palatine T6 science ship. Combine Tyken's with the Neutronic torp using spread, and once the shields drop follow up with scatter volley. The Palatine also has temporal seating and there's a temporal version of gravity well and it looks like it doesn't share a cooldown with tykens.
Has a hangar too, I could use the elite scorpions from the romulan rep that have high yield plasma torps.
It wouldn't do as much damage as my tac captain in his s'torr, but I don't think he would do bad, and I wonder if he could handle Tzenkethi better.
It's fun to drag Tzenketti with the fire chain console into the event horizon.
Absolutely right.
In Gravity Kills for example killing the Tzeks attacking the Jupiter actually makes even more spawn in, they are never ending. So you're actually better off using something like TBR and towing/pushing away a group so they are 10-20km away and no threat, but replacements won't spawn in to replace them. A single sci ship playing Jupiter-guard with TBR can push the attackers half way across the map so they are zero threat to anyone.
It's not always about killing things, and the Tzenkethi maps are actually good examples of times when you can complete things without going in for the kill all the time.