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Random Omega TFOs

Can something be done about the outrageously high odds of rolling an Omega mission when queuing for a random TFO?

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  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,104 Arc User
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    What would you rather play? Elachi? Bluegill? :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,764 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    Can something be done about the outrageously high odds of rolling an Omega mission when queuing for a random TFO?
    Something can be done. Queue something else and random people will join you. I prefer to play DRSA pretty much more than anything else so I always queue it up. If there's something that you want to play that's normal or advanced, just queue it yourself.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    Can something be done about the outrageously high odds of rolling an Omega mission when queuing for a random TFO?
    Something can be done. Queue something else and random people will join you. I prefer to play DRSA pretty much more than anything else so I always queue it up. If there's something that you want to play that's normal or advanced, just queue it yourself.

    I don't want to play something else specific. I would just like to see the probabilities weighted toward reps rather than missions so that I don't have four times the chance of an Omega mission than anything else because there are a lot more Omega missions than, say, Terran missions.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    The "probabilities" are not weighed towards anything. The random queue system prioritizes filling up queues that already have people in them first, thus the queues people often play normally are more likely to show up in random as well.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "probabilities" are not weighed towards anything. The random queue system prioritizes filling up queues that already have people in them first, thus the queues people often play normally are more likely to show up in random as well.

    I have not been logging these like I'm trying to do a statistical analysis, so the following is just intuitive.

    Some of the randos I've been in probably never had a human select them, so whatever the system looks like it obviously adjusts the odds. Unless you're telling me that as many people queue for Infected: The Conduit as for the Battle of Procyon V. I am seeing all the Omegas pop, not much more frequently than any other queues, it's just that there's like eight of them which weights it pretty heavily toward Omega marks. I agree that more active queues seem more likely to pop (SB1, Swarm), but that's not all of it and whatever math they're using can be adjusted somewhat to help with the rest of the reputations.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "probabilities" are not weighed towards anything. The random queue system prioritizes filling up queues that already have people in them first, thus the queues people often play normally are more likely to show up in random as well.

    I have not been logging these like I'm trying to do a statistical analysis, so the following is just intuitive.

    Some of the randos I've been in probably never had a human select them, so whatever the system looks like it obviously adjusts the odds. Unless you're telling me that as many people queue for Infected: The Conduit as for the Battle of Procyon V. I am seeing all the Omegas pop, not much more frequently than any other queues, it's just that there's like eight of them which weights it pretty heavily toward Omega marks. I agree that more active queues seem more likely to pop (SB1, Swarm), but that's not all of it and whatever math they're using can be adjusted somewhat to help with the rest of the reputations.
    The problem with that is humans can't intuitively understand statistics. We're most likely to see patterns where none exist.

    Fact is it would be a waste of time for them to come up with "whatever math" when simple x > y is sufficient.

    And all queues have humans select them. I've selected all of them myself, including all of them at once.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "probabilities" are not weighed towards anything. The random queue system prioritizes filling up queues that already have people in them first, thus the queues people often play normally are more likely to show up in random as well.
    I have not been logging these like I'm trying to do a statistical analysis, so the following is just intuitive.

    Some of the randos I've been in probably never had a human select them, so whatever the system looks like it obviously adjusts the odds. Unless you're telling me that as many people queue for Infected: The Conduit as for the Battle of Procyon V. I am seeing all the Omegas pop, not much more frequently than any other queues, it's just that there's like eight of them which weights it pretty heavily toward Omega marks. I agree that more active queues seem more likely to pop (SB1, Swarm), but that's not all of it and whatever math they're using can be adjusted somewhat to help with the rest of the reputations.
    There's 9 Borg TFOs if you count Disco. Which I've not seen the randomizer pick.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice. Also Kael tested the system on tribble where the queues really ARE dead. That gave pretty much everything.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice.
    I did precisely this, but there's no "dice" involved. The result is "ALL AZURE, ALL THE TIME". We tested this by forming a private group to test this in, so we could just bugger off without actually having to finish the queue. Several dozen tests resulted in a 100% Azure Nebula rate.

    You ever wonder WHY you see this so much and WHO would keep choosing a queue that is not winnable even with perfect play because there's no way to enforce that sufficient points will spawn to actually be able to win this? The answer is: Nobody is. Azure Nebula is a purgatory you get sent to when everyone chooses "random".
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,553 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice.
    I did precisely this, but there's no "dice" involved. The result is "ALL AZURE, ALL THE TIME". We tested this by forming a private group to test this in, so we could just bugger off without actually having to finish the queue. Several dozen tests resulted in a 100% Azure Nebula rate.

    You ever wonder WHY you see this so much and WHO would keep choosing a queue that is not winnable even with perfect play because there's no way to enforce that sufficient points will spawn to actually be able to win this? The answer is: Nobody is. Azure Nebula is a purgatory you get sent to when everyone chooses "random".
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.

    Only got one ISA till now . For me it's primarily the Swarm, SB1 and Undine Assault Advanced
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice.
    I did precisely this, but there's no "dice" involved. The result is "ALL AZURE, ALL THE TIME". We tested this by forming a private group to test this in, so we could just bugger off without actually having to finish the queue. Several dozen tests resulted in a 100% Azure Nebula rate.

    You ever wonder WHY you see this so much and WHO would keep choosing a queue that is not winnable even with perfect play because there's no way to enforce that sufficient points will spawn to actually be able to win this? The answer is: Nobody is. Azure Nebula is a purgatory you get sent to when everyone chooses "random".
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    How many repeats did you do and in what time frame? Remember the random system obeys cooldowns so it can't give out the same queue again in under 30 minutes.

    If it really is giving Azure all the time it should be reported.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice.
    I did precisely this, but there's no "dice" involved. The result is "ALL AZURE, ALL THE TIME". We tested this by forming a private group to test this in, so we could just bugger off without actually having to finish the queue. Several dozen tests resulted in a 100% Azure Nebula rate.

    You ever wonder WHY you see this so much and WHO would keep choosing a queue that is not winnable even with perfect play because there's no way to enforce that sufficient points will spawn to actually be able to win this? The answer is: Nobody is. Azure Nebula is a purgatory you get sent to when everyone chooses "random".
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    How many repeats did you do and in what time frame? Remember the random system obeys cooldowns so it can't give out the same queue again in under 30 minutes.

    If it really is giving Azure all the time it should be reported.
    I changed characters, but it might be using the team leader's CDs, and I'm not sure the team lead changed characters. However, Azure wasn't the first one we did, it was 7th out of 8.
    1: Gateway to Grethor(Heralds space)
    2: Khitomer Stasis(Borg ground)
    3: Counterpoint(Terran space)
    4: Starbase One(Disco space)
    5: Bug Hunt(Bluegills ground)
    6: Infected Space(Borg Space)
    7: Azure Nebula(Tholian space)
    8: R'lhho station(Elachi ground)

    I think that's the right order.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,764 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    We DO have a test of what happens if no one seeds actually. Make a 5-man team and have the team leader hit random. It CAN'T fill in so it just rolls a dice.
    I did precisely this, but there's no "dice" involved. The result is "ALL AZURE, ALL THE TIME". We tested this by forming a private group to test this in, so we could just bugger off without actually having to finish the queue. Several dozen tests resulted in a 100% Azure Nebula rate.

    You ever wonder WHY you see this so much and WHO would keep choosing a queue that is not winnable even with perfect play because there's no way to enforce that sufficient points will spawn to actually be able to win this? The answer is: Nobody is. Azure Nebula is a purgatory you get sent to when everyone chooses "random".

    I forgot yesterday but I've actually chosen ANR Normal a few times recently to fill the requirements for one of the new pointless TFO "missions" in the mission journal. Didn't see anybody going AFK so you must not have been in there.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    First, were you a full 5-man band, or were there holes in your roster to be filled by some prexisting outside player? Was this on Easymode or Adv? Did you simply push the button over and over for testin purposes, or did you actually complete queues and thus get banned from them? If ANY player did not switch characters, the group would have been banned from repeating any queue that any member is banned from.

    My test results were pre-Thursday (this weekend was much too busy with upgrade event for any frivolousness), and Adv-only (because only children play easymode), and the results were quite glaring: Dozens of attempts, All Azure, All The Time. We would then immediately all leave to see what would happen next.
    Yes it was a full-5 man premade team. I can't be 100% sure none of the team had a cooldown, but we did 8 RTFOs over a period of 2 hours. Azure wasn't even in the first 5:
    1: Gateway to Grethor(Heralds space)
    2: Khitomer Stasis(Borg ground)
    3: Counterpoint(Terran space)
    4: Starbase One(Disco space)
    5: Bug Hunt(Bluegills ground)
    6: Infected Space(Borg Space)
    7: Azure Nebula(Tholian space)
    8: R'lhho station(Elachi ground)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    First, were you a full 5-man band, or were there holes in your roster to be filled by some prexisting outside player? Was this on Easymode or Adv? Did you simply push the button over and over for testin purposes, or did you actually complete queues and thus get banned from them? If ANY player did not switch characters, the group would have been banned from repeating any queue that any member is banned from.

    My test results were pre-Thursday (this weekend was much too busy with upgrade event for any frivolousness), and Adv-only (because only children play easymode), and the results were quite glaring: Dozens of attempts, All Azure, All The Time. We would then immediately all leave to see what would happen next.
    Yes it was a full-5 man premade team. I can't be 100% sure none of the team had a cooldown, but we did 8 RTFOs over a period of 2 hours. Azure wasn't even in the first 5:
    1: Gateway to Grethor(Heralds space)
    2: Khitomer Stasis(Borg ground)
    3: Counterpoint(Terran space)
    4: Starbase One(Disco space)
    5: Bug Hunt(Bluegills ground)
    6: Infected Space(Borg Space)
    7: Azure Nebula(Tholian space)
    8: R'lhho station(Elachi ground)
    Given two hours, even if someone in the team had Azure on cooldown in the beginning, there would've been enough time for the cooldowns would've run out 3 times.
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    I did it sunday in fact. We got Azure once and only once.
    First, were you a full 5-man band, or were there holes in your roster to be filled by some prexisting outside player? Was this on Easymode or Adv? Did you simply push the button over and over for testin purposes, or did you actually complete queues and thus get banned from them? If ANY player did not switch characters, the group would have been banned from repeating any queue that any member is banned from.

    My test results were pre-Thursday (this weekend was much too busy with upgrade event for any frivolousness), and Adv-only (because only children play easymode), and the results were quite glaring: Dozens of attempts, All Azure, All The Time. We would then immediately all leave to see what would happen next.
    Maybe Cryptic has coded in a countermeasure for players trying to exploit the random system by leaving repeatedly until they get the queue they want. Or in other words, if you leave it may try to put you back in the same one if possible (and with a 5-team, it always is).
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