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Official Feedback Thread for Streamlining the Mission Journal

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  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,897 Arc User
    Burying the older content in yet another tabs where few people will look at or know exists is a bad way to handle this update. The Current Available tab is a great example of what not to do.
    Here is a bunch of random things that you can do, and even if you complete said mission, it’s still there saying “hey, you should do this missions again”. So you are stuck with monolithic block of garbage missions that you have no way to know if you did them or not.
    This is why I opted for the nest approach for story arc missions

    The current Available tab works fine. I was able to find what was important to me in there without consulting outside sources, or even asking anyone in game about it when I was new to the game. Maybe I have a little more curiosity about what's in which part of the UI than others, but I doubt it. I see videos all the time of people that are new to a game that at least give every menu a cursory glance, I mean how else are you expecting to find things? I don't use the Available tab much anymore, except when the Tour the Galaxy Endeavor comes up, but that's more due to simply not needing dailies for dilithium anymore. Honestly answering a simple question will show that the Available tab still works as it is; Is it easier to find Tour The Galaxy on that tab than it is to find which mission gives out a specific omni-beam using just the Episodes tab?

    I hate to say it, but I don't think that your suggestion above for improving it all by bifurcating the Episodes tab is better, nor do I think that it would even work. That page is already a tab with sub-tabs dividing it, how would they even work another separation into the UI that they have? They can tab and sub-tab divisions that already exist, like in Reputation and Fleet holdings windows, but that would lead to a journal that's more confusing, not more streamlined.

    Hopefully, they will add a new sub-tab for these side missions in the Available tab to group them all together and keep the main Available tab from getting longer than it is, perhaps even making the new Side Missions sub-tab the first one of the three, since story content is more important to most than dailies or story bits from arcs long past.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • tobywitczaktobywitczak Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    I know this is still a WIP, but right now in the Available tab, removed from the main mission’s journal is starring to trickle in, however what is currently shown is just a single items list from the mission’s givers. I really hope this is not what they’re planning otherwise I will call it an Epic Fail.

    Establish Arcs should be their own separate subtab (under the current Available Tab?) Right now the current Available, has two subtabs, Starfleet - Missions and Starfleet – Info. Break this down further, by Including removed episode arcs (like I outlined above, now it just in the Available Tab)

    So the side menu would looks something like this
    • Starfleet – Info
    • Klingon War: Front Lines
    • Guardian of Forever
    • Devidian Incursions
    • Wasteland
    • Legacy of the Romulin Republic*
    • The 2800
    • Legacy of the Cardassian War*
    • Legacy of the Borg Collective*
    • Legacy of the Undine Advance*
    • New Romulus: Research
    • Kobili Crisis
    • Legacy of Voyager*
    • Starfleet – Daily missions

    * Arcs that were removed way back when but should be brought back
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,897 Arc User
    My character that I made to test this still hasn't gotten a handoff for the 2800 arc, and she's level 50. She got the handoff for the Devidian arc, but no way to start the missions yet. I might be able to do those after I finish Nimbus, but I haven't bothered yet. I skipped everything that came up, but never got the ability to start the Borg arc, or anything after that, other than the various area missions on New Romulus, even after using the console on Drozana to push her to level 50.

    I guess it's time to roll a new one to test it all out again.

    One other note, Older characters that have already done the shifted arcs cannot replay them. If this were the case on Holodeck right now, the current Endeavor would be impossible to complete, as all of my characters have done the Breen arc, and I have my doubts that I could level one up to the point where it could do Endeavors in the allotted time. So, that's a problem that needs addressing.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • inferiorityinferiority Member Posts: 1,151 Arc User
    I'm still trying to figure out why this apparent "streamlining" needs to be done when everything in the mission journal is perfectly fine the way it is.
    Although, it would be nice to see some of those formerly removed missions re-instated somehow - Saturday's Child, The Tribble with Klingons, etc.
    - - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Everyone has a better name and Youtube Channel than me...  :/
  • tobywitczaktobywitczak Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    It’s the same issue, as 99% of all these type of issues, failure to plan what if scenarios. There was never a mechanism in place to keep the older content should it be removed from the main. This is also why Special events (Delta Rising, AoY, Gamma) are one offs not part of the related packs. Internally it should have been a switch that could be activated on a per character bases at any time. But that was never considered so the events became a one off and only at the time of creation.

    What find interesting is that SWO has a built in mechanism to account for this, with the doors, as annoying as it is with the loading for the missions, this gives them the chance to if needs be, run the older missions is some sort of legacy STO mode. However Cryptic is more interested in just updating the mission itself which tends to be better in the long run. Still Now that I level up all my 7 mains, I am looking for more, specifically all the accolades and special items.

    This is why I am hoping they add in for them to add in accolades and special items in to the missions view. like this or something. attachment.php?aid=2601

    This is not just Cryptic BTW, Blizzard’s pulled the same trick. That was one of the reasons cataclysm happened in WOW they dropped a lot of the old quest, but going forward they have a structure way to retire, yet make available older content.
  • shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    They sorely need an Optional or Featured Episodes tab to keep things organized. Shoving everything to the Available Missions list is sub-optimal and buries some really good content in a separate list. Weaving in the TFOs is a good idea, at least on paper, to get people used to these things early on.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,897 Arc User
    The Breen arc handoff still happens very early, but that's not a terrible thing, given that the first mission is now apparently set to be available at level 9. However, after doing that mission, no more come up, at least not by level 27. This is on a brand new Starfleet character who has now done everything available, except for finishing the TFOs to complete those missions. She's stuck at 27 with nothing available. Never got the first missions of Spectres or the 2800.

    The way that this is set up right now is not so good, and breaks the narrative progression of the game for 25th century Starfleet characters. I did the tutorial, and everything that I could do in the Klingon War, and ended up at level 8, with the only thing available to do at the time being Heading Out, the starting point for the Romulan arc. I did that, and continued in that arc through the end, watching Obisek kill Hakeev at level 16, then turning level 17 upon turning it in. The problem is that I couldn't beam down to do Nimbus until level 21, which I got to after finishing the Cardassian arc missions. So now I travel back in time to find Hakeev alive at the end of that arc, apparently.

    If you don't know the progression order for the game, this is probably going to happen to you no matter what, with Nimbus being optional content now, but the Cloaked Intentions arc still being in the main story, but it could at least be alleviated somewhat by making sure the Drake actually gives you the Spectres arc missions starting at level 7 or 8, or whenever you finish the Klingon War arc, and that Surah will give you all of the Breen arc missions, rather than just the first one, at that time as well. That would allow you to get to level 18 or so before starting the Romulan arc, and then use the missions that aren't part of the Cloaked Intentions series to get to about level 22, making you able to go to Nimbus and do those missions, so that you can get them done before you see Hakeev get killed. This will be less of a problem when the other episodes in the Klingon War arc get returned, of course, and you probably wouldn't have to switch out of the Romulan Mystery arc halfway through just to have the story make sense.
    It’s the same issue, as 99% of all these type of issues, failure to plan what if scenarios. There was never a mechanism in place to keep the older content should it be removed from the main. This is also why Special events (Delta Rising, AoY, Gamma) are one offs not part of the related packs. Internally it should have been a switch that could be activated on a per character bases at any time. But that was never considered so the events became a one off and only at the time of creation.

    What find interesting is that SWO has a built in mechanism to account for this, with the doors, as annoying as it is with the loading for the missions, this gives them the chance to if needs be, run the older missions is some sort of legacy STO mode. However Cryptic is more interested in just updating the mission itself which tends to be better in the long run. Still Now that I level up all my 7 mains, I am looking for more, specifically all the accolades and special items.

    This is why I am hoping they add in for them to add in accolades and special items in to the missions view. like this or something. attachment.php?aid=2601

    This is not just Cryptic BTW, Blizzard’s pulled the same trick. That was one of the reasons cataclysm happened in WOW they dropped a lot of the old quest, but going forward they have a structure way to retire, yet make available older content.

    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I'm fairly certain that they could return those removed missions at any time, if they so desired, but they don't want to, so they don't. As far as recruitment events go, those are working as designed, and they were designed to get people logging in at specific times to see the new content, and perhaps be enticed to spend some money on something. Making it so that people who bought a pack could create recruit characters at their leisure would run counter to that design goal.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • tobywitczaktobywitczak Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    A lot of what I was talking about was on the Ten Forward Weekly, Twitch Streams. They DO want to keep all the missions they are removing, that is why the removed mission are being moved to the available tab for now. However, with the new streamlined missions, for them keep the plot coherent, it requires tweaking to the remaining, main missions.

    I don’t have an issue with any of the streamlining, and they continue to reaffirm that they are not trying to cut any content and that they are looking to bring back some of the content that was removed earlier a well, however they need to remaster that content.

    My statement was keeping legacy content was baked into the core of the game. This is why its difficult to keep all the existing content. If they want to do what they are saying then they will need to bit the bullet sort of speak and implement this underlying change.

    BTW They also mentioned that the nimbus arc would still be there for the Romulan play though and they want to update the Klingon Arc, or at least bring up the quality of the missions.

    Finally, when it comes to the recruitment events, again they were not against the idea at some point, it was just that to do it would require more effort than it is worth, they never planned to make this an option, but in hindsight they could have with a minimal amount of effort at the time. You may disagree with me on if it is a good idea, but let me ask you this questions, is it a good idea to keep adding special event items to the phoenix packs?

    Hope that clears things up. Off to write up a Quality of Life Enhancement for the Mission Journal and available tab now that it is being used as the Optional Mission tab. BTW I do like the Idea of calling the tab Optional rather than Available
  • awlaforgeawlaforge Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    One thing occurs to me reading comments. The mission, "Temporal Ambassador" rewards a Tier 3 ship. A ship that is of little use other than the admiralty card where the mission is currently planned to be placed. Is that reward being dropped or will it be rewarded in some other way?
  • tobywitczaktobywitczak Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    Update the sample image for the Journal, I really hope someone from Cryptic sees this, just for the Quality of Life Improvements alone. When I finish with some of the other ideas on the Mission Journal, I will create a new thread.
  • kcansur7kcansur7 Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    I'm disappointed in the removal of the Nimbus, Breen and 4800 missions from the main story. Those contain elements that lead into later missions.

    "Installation 18" is referenced in "Shadow Play," when a mutilated corpse is found on Cirini Prime, and one of the bridge officers remarks that it resembles the bodies found in Installation 18.

    The Breen arc leads us into the Preserver archives, which we return to in "Blood of Ancients."

    The 4800 arc shows us that the Federation releases the female Founder in exchange for the contemporary Dominion's help against Kar'ukan's fleet, and thus she has a presence in the Gamma Quadrant arc.

    Without those missions being necessary, there are gaps in the story, which would confuse new players.
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 879 Arc User
    The new changes are horrible, putting them into the available tab that is already quite filled is just silly.

    It was way better the way it was, like mentioned a lot of these missions are crucial for STO's storyline, just make them skipable. Don't shove them in under a rug...

    This is just horrible.
  • tobywitczaktobywitczak Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    This is how i would have handled the mission journal. The Available Tab is just a no thought catch all. I have a thread on how to improve the Mission Journal over all. Check my sig

    Available Tab: This should have the same layout and function as the Episode Tab (including accolades or a unique missions reward), which includes adding mission arcs to the side in a structured manner, not just dumping the missions in a list based upon mission giver.
    I have broken it up into three areas, Missions, Arcs, Legacy Arcs
    • Missions are broken down into Starfleet - Missions the missions that don’t have an arc and are not daily’s, Starfleet - Info are just clicks for more information on the state of the galaxy and how to, and finally and Starfleet – Daily, just all the daily missions you can do.
    • The Arcs section is the move missions off the main journal
    • Legacy missions are older mission that should/can be brought back

    attachment.php?aid=2628
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    So, can I assume the mission Journal is NOT going to be fixed??? I only ask because it definitly needs fixing. As it stands now, it is FUBAR.
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 879 Arc User
    renata666 wrote: »
    So, can I assume the mission Journal is NOT going to be fixed??? I only ask because it definitly needs fixing. As it stands now, it is FUBAR.

    Unless it's Discovery or TFO related you can forget about it getting fixed or changed/improved.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 2,165 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    renata666 wrote: »
    So, can I assume the mission Journal is NOT going to be fixed??? I only ask because it definitly needs fixing. As it stands now, it is FUBAR.

    Unless it's Discovery or TFO related you can forget about it getting fixed or changed/improved.

    Actually on Reddit, in the bug post section someone brought up the problems for Fed-Roms and others about the Mission Journal. Just because it is not Discovery/TFO related does not mean it will never be fixed. Some fixes are easier than others. So they are being looked at to be fixed. Thanks. :)
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    They really need to add all of those missions back in. As originally designed, they fell within a specific time frame within the overall storyline. If done out of order, it breaks the flow of the story.
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  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    I agree 100% I want the mission journal back the way it was. It wasn't broken, now it is. The change fixed nothing and effed up a ton.
    They really need to add all of those missions back in. As originally designed, they fell within a specific time frame within the overall storyline. If done out of order, it breaks the flow of the story.

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