Cyberpunk 2077

starkaos

A 48 minute gameplay demo video is out on Youtube. For the obvious reason of it being a CD Projekt Red game, I can't post a link to the video. It certainly looks better than The Witcher. Might have to take a break from all other games for weeks when it comes out.

markhawkman

Well here are a few old vids with interesting stuff in them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCWsfQnMkAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ayTlkVTgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTIL54O6vjo

mustrumridcully0

Looking forward to it. I hope they can achieve Witcher 3 greatness again.

starkaos

Personally, I think Cyberpunk 2077 will make Witcher 3 look like garbage in comparison. Although, that probably has to do more with I prefer Science Fiction settings over Fantasy settings and good developers always try to make new games better than their previous games rather than Witcher 3 being garbage.

There is a possibility of a Witcher 3 Easter Egg in Cyberpunk 2077. Ciri mentions going to a world that sounds just like Cyberpunk 2077 in the following video at 2:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ6A3GvEVo0

It could be as simple as hearing a story about a woman with white hair and a scar teleporting while wielding a sword with her pointy eared friend or actually meeting them in person.

avoozuul

I wonder how it will compare to the Deus Ex franchise.

starkaos

The Open World looks more fleshed out in Cyberpunk 2077 and implants seem to be added to your character as you play the game resulting in changing the look of your character to a certain extent rather than all the implants installed at the start like how it is in Deus Ex. The gameplay demo has the main character install 2 implants, an eye implant which lets you zoom and scan items and a hand implant which lets you see your ammo count and some other feature. The main character's partner was able to recognize the brand of eye implant and we could see what the hand implant looks like.

starkaos

Just noticed something in the gameplay video. When V was buying her implants, each implant had a humanity cost. The Kiroshi Optical Scanner Mk I had a humanity cost of 2 while the Kiroshi Optical Scanner Mk II had a humanity cost of 4. So apparently, the more implants or more powerful implants installed, the higher the humanity cost which leads to Cyberpsychosis. The woman in the first Cyberpunk 2077 apparently had too much implants installed and went crazy. It would certainly be a cop out if Cyberpunk 2077 takes the Deus Ex path where the main character has special DNA that prevents implant rejection or in Cyberpunk 2077's case, immune to Cyberpsychosis.

markhawkman

Hmm.. interesting. I was thinking it had to do with how it changed how you looked and how much of you was still organic. The one vid apparently shows a woman with bullet proof skin and mechanical arms. If she was in passive mode she could presumably blend in with normal humans since the texture of the synthetic skin on her arms was the only tell that she was a cyborg.

starkaos

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm.. interesting. I was thinking it had to do with how it changed how you looked and how much of you was still organic. The one vid apparently shows a woman with bullet proof skin and mechanical arms. If she was in passive mode she could presumably blend in with normal humans since the texture of the synthetic skin on her arms was the only tell that she was a cyborg.

Cyberpsychosis exists in the Cyberpunk 2020 PnP game. The more implants a person has, the more they lose their grip on humanity and start to feel that natural humans are inferior. The more empathetic a person is, the more resistant they are to Cyberpsychosis. So a psychopath might only need a cybernetic arm to experience Cyberpsychosis while Mother Teresa would require 99% of her body to be replaced with cybernetic implants to undergo Cyberpsychosis. There is also Psycho Squads that are police squads that deal with people undergoing Cyberpsychosis. It is pure conjecture that the woman in the first video has undergone Cyberpsychosis and the Police Officers are part of the Psycho Squad, but it does fit the Cyberpunk 2020 lore.

markhawkman

starkaos wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm.. interesting. I was thinking it had to do with how it changed how you looked and how much of you was still organic. The one vid apparently shows a woman with bullet proof skin and mechanical arms. If she was in passive mode she could presumably blend in with normal humans since the texture of the synthetic skin on her arms was the only tell that she was a cyborg.

Cyberpsychosis exists in the Cyberpunk 2020 PnP game. The more implants a person has, the more they lose their grip on humanity and start to feel that natural humans are inferior. The more empathetic a person is, the more resistant they are to Cyberpsychosis. So a psychopath might only need a cybernetic arm to experience Cyberpsychosis while Mother Teresa would require 99% of her body to be replaced with cybernetic implants to undergo Cyberpsychosis. There is also Psycho Squads that are police squads that deal with people undergoing Cyberpsychosis. It is pure conjecture that the woman in the first video has undergone Cyberpsychosis and the Police Officers are part of the Psycho Squad, but it does fit the Cyberpunk 2020 lore.

You mean the woman with blade arms who seemingly massacred a bunch of dudes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99qJGrPNLs
if you pause around 1:17 it doesn't really say WHY the lady with blade arms killed people, or even how many she killed. She may have been a bodyguard or cop. Perhaps some of the dead people were people she was trying to protect(and failed)? If you pause at 1:13 you can see some of them look cut up, but some look like they might have been shot. Another odd thing is that the woman doesn't move. It looks like she has decided to allow the police to arrest her... or something. You see what is apparently the same woman, alive, inside a police transport starting around 1:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCWsfQnMkAI
At 3:15 in that vid there's a similar scene with a violent riot but not a massacre yet. Maybe it's actually the same event? One the early stages of a shootout as punks try to loot a corporate building, the other the aftermath after the shooting is over? I'm really curious who the woman is since the way she acts in the second part makes her seem almost like she's happy to be in police custody... or even that she was an officer undercover. She's strapped into the transport the same as an actual officer, and... you can't see below her neck, but it looks like she might be wearing a police uniform. And you DO see her put on a helmet that matches what the actual police are wearing. How do we know it's the same woman? The scratch on her cheek. She gets shot in the face between 0:20 and 0:23, and it's still there when you see her inside the transport.

starkaos

markhawkman wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm.. interesting. I was thinking it had to do with how it changed how you looked and how much of you was still organic. The one vid apparently shows a woman with bullet proof skin and mechanical arms. If she was in passive mode she could presumably blend in with normal humans since the texture of the synthetic skin on her arms was the only tell that she was a cyborg.

Cyberpsychosis exists in the Cyberpunk 2020 PnP game. The more implants a person has, the more they lose their grip on humanity and start to feel that natural humans are inferior. The more empathetic a person is, the more resistant they are to Cyberpsychosis. So a psychopath might only need a cybernetic arm to experience Cyberpsychosis while Mother Teresa would require 99% of her body to be replaced with cybernetic implants to undergo Cyberpsychosis. There is also Psycho Squads that are police squads that deal with people undergoing Cyberpsychosis. It is pure conjecture that the woman in the first video has undergone Cyberpsychosis and the Police Officers are part of the Psycho Squad, but it does fit the Cyberpunk 2020 lore.

You mean the woman with blade arms who seemingly massacred a bunch of dudes?

if you pause around 1:17 it doesn't really say WHY the lady with blade arms killed people, or even how many she killed. She may have been a bodyguard or cop. Perhaps some of the dead people were people she was trying to protect(and failed)? If you pause at 1:13 you can see some of them look cut up, but some look like they might have been shot. Another odd thing is that the woman doesn't move. It looks like she has decided to allow the police to arrest her... or something. You see what is apparently the same woman, alive, inside a police transport starting around 1:50.

At 3:15 in that vid there's a similar scene with a violent riot but not a massacre yet. Maybe it's actually the same event? One the early stages of a shootout as punks try to loot a corporate building, the other the aftermath after the shooting is over? I'm really curious who the woman is since the way she acts in the second part makes her seem almost like she's happy to be in police custody... or even that she was an officer undercover. She's strapped into the transport the same as an actual officer, and... you can't see below her neck, but it looks like she might be wearing a police uniform. And you DO see her put on a helmet that matches what the actual police are wearing. How do we know it's the same woman? The scratch on her cheek. She gets shot in the face between 0:20 and 0:23, and it's still there when you see her inside the transport.

Another possibility is that she was TRIBBLE. We saw 4 instances of hacking a person in the gameplay video, V hacking that naked girl in the bathtub to check her vital signs, V being TRIBBLE with some form of lie detector, and V hacking a thug to disable another enemy's weapon, and the credit virus that killed one of the thugs and somehow made their skull light up. So hacking someone to make their implants go out of control would not be out of the realm of possibility, especially if they are carrying mantis blades. So she could have been TRIBBLE to become berserk and TRIBBLE again to become a police officer assuming she wasn't already part of law enforcement.

Another possibility is having too many implants without enough support. Kind of like what happens when you plug too many appliances to the same electrical socket. V bought something called a Neural Processor along with her Optical Scanner and Subdermal Grip. A Neural Processor could be related to interfacing implants with the central nervous system. Adding too many implants from an unlicensed Ripperdoc without installing Neural Processors to compensate for the added load to her system could have caused her implants to glitch. Of course, Neural Processors could be related to the Kerenzikov ability where V experiences bullet time and other neural implants.

markhawkman

Hmm... pretty sure hacking in Cyberpunk can't alter a person's personality. It can let you take control of their implants, but it's not mind control. There were some scenes with people dying due to hacks causing their implants to explode. But that's totally different.

starkaos

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm... pretty sure hacking in Cyberpunk can't alter a person's personality. It can let you take control of their implants, but it's not mind control. There were some scenes with people dying due to hacks causing their implants to explode. But that's totally different.

Not a matter of mind control, but body control. If your entire body is filled with cybernetics, then someone can control the cybernetics to control your body. Hacking sensory implants can make the target see whatever the hacker wants. So a bunch of regular people can be turned into a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs just by hacking the sensory implants.

spiritborn

starkaos wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm... pretty sure hacking in Cyberpunk can't alter a person's personality. It can let you take control of their implants, but it's not mind control. There were some scenes with people dying due to hacks causing their implants to explode. But that's totally different.

Not a matter of mind control, but body control. If your entire body is filled with cybernetics, then someone can control the cybernetics to control your body. Hacking sensory implants can make the target see whatever the hacker wants. So a bunch of regular people can be turned into a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs just by hacking the sensory implants.

IIRC (don't have the core rulebook in a convient place so I cannot double check) netrunners cannot make people "see things" or take control of their implants, but what they can mess with the connection between the implants and your organic parts or shut machine to machine connections within them.

Essentially hackers can stop a cyberpsycho by making his implants not work (or not work properly) or even kill the phycho by overloading his implants but they cannot create a cyberpsycho from a stable individual.

markhawkman

starkaos wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

Hmm... pretty sure hacking in Cyberpunk can't alter a person's personality. It can let you take control of their implants, but it's not mind control. There were some scenes with people dying due to hacks causing their implants to explode. But that's totally different.

Not a matter of mind control, but body control. If your entire body is filled with cybernetics, then someone can control the cybernetics to control your body. Hacking sensory implants can make the target see whatever the hacker wants. So a bunch of regular people can be turned into a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs just by hacking the sensory implants.

I don't think that's sustainable long-term though. I guess you could lock their implants when you're not using them for something though.

starkaos

We will have to wait for the game to come out to figure out if there is any meaning to the woman in the first video. They might not even add her to the game for all we know.

As far as Cyberpsychosis and humanity cost goes, we might only see npcs undergo cyberpsychosis where they are perfectly fine one moment and massacre a bunch of people the next. Humanity cost could affect the options that we are able to play with. So the non-violent approach might become more difficult or impossible for certain situations with a high humanity cost. Having a too high humanity cost might be like playing a starving vampire in Elder Scrolls where you are more likely to be attacked by npcs or have them flee from you which would be the closest to Cyberpsychosis that the player will get.

markhawkman

It could be used as a cap on your ability to upgrade. Thus it's a looming threat for the player to avoid.... and MUST avoid because it's a stat barrier. IE, you need to get upgrades(like that neural processor) to increase the max humanity cost of your implants. Otherwise you have to swap implants out to get new ones. Much like a max gear level cap in other games.

starkaos

The name just doesn't fit for it to be a simple upgrade cap. Humanity cost sounds too much like losing your sense of identity or humanity. As you replace more and more of your body with machines, then the closer you become the machine. Each implant has a psychological cost. Simple cybernetic arms would give a minor feeling of omnipotence However, a neural implant would have a greater psychological cost since it can change the way people perceive the world. A reflex booster like Kerenzikov in the Cyberpunk PnP game would cause the user to always perceive the world going at a slower pace than usual. Extremely good for combat, but having to talk with someone or wait in line while when everyone else is going at half or a quarter your speed would get extremely annoying.

markhawkman

Yeah I have no way of knowing which is what the game is written to be and which it isn't. Hmm... maybe the humanity cap is affected by a player level system and not your implants? We did see that the game has a level system and skill trees. So it could be tied to that, but I don't really know.

starkaos

I assume that Cyberpunk 2077 will keep as close to the Cyberpunk 2020 PnP game as is reasonably possible. According to the Cyberpunk 2020 manual, Empathy 3 is something of a cold fish, emotionless and cold. With an Empathy of 2, the character is chilly, forbidding, and distinctly unpleasant to others. With an Empathy of 1, the character is usually violent, psychopathic, and vicious. He must constantly fight to keep from going over the edge and committing irrational, violent acts of murder and mayhem. At an Empathy rating of 0, the character is fully in the grip of cyberpsychosis. He is driven by a maddening hatred of other humans or living things. At this point, there is no turning back-the character is taken over by the Referee, who plays it as a non-player character with all the worst attributes of a murderous, mechanized psychopath, called a cyberpsycho. Not all cyberpsychos are the rampaging type. Many exhibit more subtle symptoms; compulsive lying, kleptomania, sadism, brutality, split personality, and extremely violent mood swings.

So while I doubt V will ever become a cyberpsycho unless the players decides to play them as one, there is a good chance we will encounter them in some missions. Empathy could be used in the dialogue options. Low humanity cost will allow the most dialogue options available while increasing the humanity cost will decrease the dialogue options. In the bathtub scene, there is the following dialogue options, Check target's biomonitor, Hard to tell, and More bodies in the tub. With a high humanity cost, the More bodies in the tub could be greyed out or disappear. Since caring about other victims in a tub that aren't part of the mission requires Empathy. It would be interesting to see if the More bodies in the tub dialogue option would have led to a side quest where you try to rescue both.

mustrumridcully0

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Looks like they combined Deus Ex and GTA, but took out everything that made either of those games fun.

Not holding out for a good game after how badly they fumbled Witcher 3.

Now this is how you identify people from a parallel universe, even without being able to read their quantum signatures!

avoozuul

TW3 wasn't badly fumbled at all.

avoozuul

Skyrim was like the most dumbed down game in its series, so many RPG features as well as a whole lot of customization options that the previous games had were stripped away, it was made to appeal more to the masses than the actual fanbase. It aimed more for the lowest common denominator and the PC port was a consolized mess, they even went through the effort to explain how the whole game fitted on one XBOX360 disc as if that was a good thing. Sure they made a special edition release with upgraded graphics but even then they were nothing to compared to the graphics mods which fans made for the original version of the game, it's obvious that they only made the SE to introduce their creation club paid mods scheme. Skyrim has to have the most unoriginal story in all TES games and the majority of medieval fantasy games, the whole "dragons are terrorizing and we must slay them" routine has been done to death by many medieval fantasy stories, Morrowind and Daggerfall are the only games in the series to have more original stories. IMHO Morrowind was the last good TES game they made, after that it all went downhill. I think TW3 was a much better game than Skyrim.

starkaos

avoozuul wrote: »

Skyrim was like the most dumbed down game in its series, so many RPG features as well as a whole lot of customization options that the previous games had were stripped away, it was made to appeal more to the masses than the actual fanbase. It aimed more for the lowest common denominator and the PC port was a consolized mess, they even went through the effort to explain how the whole game fitted on one XBOX360 disc as if that was a good thing. Sure they made a special edition release with upgraded graphics but even then they were nothing to compared to the graphics mods which fans made for the original version of the game, it's obvious that they only made the SE to introduce their creation club paid mods scheme. Skyrim has to have the most unoriginal story in all TES games and the majority of medieval fantasy games, the whole "dragons are terrorizing and we must slay them" routine has been done to death by many medieval fantasy stories, Morrowind and Daggerfall are the only games in the series to have more original stories. IMHO Morrowind was the last good TES game they made, after that it all went downhill. I think TW3 was a much better game than Skyrim.

I was disappointed that they did Skyrim Remastered instead of Morrowind Remastered.

starkaos

azrael605 wrote: »

Never played any Witcher games, nor do I have any desire to, but I play every Elder Scrolls (except ESO).

Just think of the Witcher games as Elder Scrolls where there is no character customization, lots of one night stands, and limited mod support. The Witcher 3 has an ending system similar to Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout: New Vegas.

mustrumridcully0

starkaos wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

Never played any Witcher games, nor do I have any desire to, but I play every Elder Scrolls (except ESO).

Just think of the Witcher games as Elder Scrolls where there is no character customization, lots of one night stands, and limited mod support. The Witcher 3 has an ending system similar to Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout: New Vegas.

And a game with no "Get me 5 wolf pelts" tasks, but instead interesting stories even in minor side quests, with complex characters and sharp dialogues.

starkaos

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

Never played any Witcher games, nor do I have any desire to, but I play every Elder Scrolls (except ESO).

Just think of the Witcher games as Elder Scrolls where there is no character customization, lots of one night stands, and limited mod support. The Witcher 3 has an ending system similar to Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout: New Vegas.

And a game with no "Get me 5 wolf pelts" tasks, but instead interesting stories even in minor side quests, with complex characters and sharp dialogues.

Those lousy quests seem far more limited to MMOs than single player games.