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STO: Age of Discovery - Excited YEAH/NAY

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  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    > @eldarion79 said:
    > nimbull wrote: »
    >
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > > @jam3s1701 said:
    > > > @the1tigglet said:
    > > > Let me just add, that if they were interested in coming out with relevant new content, why not make Axanar content be the next content patch?!
    > >
    > > Because Axanar is not canon.
    > >
    > > Also did you forget the lawsuit to stop that man.
    > >
    > > Oh and next you'll be asking for unicorns
    >
    > Sad part is Axanar was better than TRIBBLE. By a LONG shot.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I would agree with this, though it is a shame they didn't manage things better and caused all the fallout they did. The teaser they did was FANTASTIC as well as stuck more with the traditional look of that era.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > No, Axanar needs to be forgotten and buried in a deep hole for what the organizer have done to the Trek Fandom. The individuals who made Prelude did a good job with the task that was given to them. I, for one, loved Discovery and thinks that is a great cross promotion for the franchise. This should have been done when Discovery and the other movies were made.

    And that's simply your PoV. Discovery does what The Last Jedi did to star wars. Let the past die, kill it if you have to.

    That's what Discovery feels like. Killing the past, and rewriting it, not expanding upon it

    Because "funny"

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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,159 Arc User
    We do not know as of yet, it depends on how invasive the content will be.
    Hopefully it will just be for the TRIBBLE fans and not be unavoidable content.

    Even if it were to be "invasive", you still don't need to play it.

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User

    If potential players do not like that emphasis then they are not really into Star Trek as a whole, they are into TRIBBLE.
    STO is a post-Voyager game and has been since it was released. You just admitted I'm correct by stating that STO has already covered the 23rd Century, so doing so again with what amounts to an expansion for the sole purpose of promoting TRIBBLE is redundant and thus a waste of time. Many of us dislike TRIBBLE for a wide variety of reasons and are not ever going to pay for it no matter how much CBS attempts to force it on us. As I've stated consistently, you Drekkers should be have content from TRIBBLE for your personal use, what should not be in game is anything that is required for character advancement that is connected to TRIBBLE.
    The new content is being advertised as an expansion, not just new content that can be ignored. We've yet to see how invasive this new content will be, but understand that "new" players are not likely to be PAYING players since younger players tend to not have as much money as older players.
    TRIBBLE is now 25 years old. Most fans of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine are probably from back then, so I don't know why you'd say that people attracted by it would be "young".

    And I always thought that DS9 had a rough start, but eventually became the most popular Star Trek series, since it's so much more relevant in its topics to today, and also has some of the more complex story arcs, closer to what modern TV and Streaming television has to offer. It put a more "realistic" spin on the universe, without losing Star Trek's sense of hope in the future. It balanced the Dark with the Light well.

    But I am not sure why we are still talking about TRIBBLE. Victory of Life is "done", the next big thing is Star Trek Discovery. DSC will probably bring in some younger people, but probably also plenty "old" fans whose Star Trek love just got reinvigorated after such a long absence. I have 4 or 5 colleagues around my age that have watched it, and they are mostly middle class basically, so if people like them get into STO as well, they'd have neat disposable income.


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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @jam3s1701 said:
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > > @eldarion79 said:
    > > nimbull wrote: »
    > >
    > > talonxv wrote: »
    > >
    > > > @jam3s1701 said:
    > > > > @the1tigglet said:
    > > > > Let me just add, that if they were interested in coming out with relevant new content, why not make Axanar content be the next content patch?!
    > > >
    > > > Because Axanar is not canon.
    > > >
    > > > Also did you forget the lawsuit to stop that man.
    > > >
    > > > Oh and next you'll be asking for unicorns
    > >
    > > Sad part is Axanar was better than TRIBBLE. By a LONG shot.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I would agree with this, though it is a shame they didn't manage things better and caused all the fallout they did. The teaser they did was FANTASTIC as well as stuck more with the traditional look of that era.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > No, Axanar needs to be forgotten and buried in a deep hole for what the organizer have done to the Trek Fandom. The individuals who made Prelude did a good job with the task that was given to them. I, for one, loved Discovery and thinks that is a great cross promotion for the franchise. This should have been done when Discovery and the other movies were made.
    >
    > And that's simply your PoV. Discovery does what The Last Jedi did to star wars. Let the past die, kill it if you have to.
    >
    > That's what Discovery feels like. Killing the past, and rewriting it, not expanding upon it
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Because "funny"

    I never said it was a good situation nor was it smartly handled. Stop trying to shove words in my mouth.

    All I was Anaxar was better done than Discovery and felt more in place for the period that it was set.

    And that is still true IRREGARDLESS of all this side stepping to discredit you keep doing.

    That's the fact of the matter. While highly reckless and poorly handled on all sides, still looked better than Discovery.
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  • iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    37841090_10156218793870358_5796188039604600832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cd36dfad4c9b21eb8fb6ac8288df42bc&oe=5BCC9363

    Okay, I've seen a few folks say they love this. Is it some sort of pop culture reference? I understand that it's meant to be taken in the vein of the episode of TNG that pic is taken from (Darmok), but I just don't get it.

    Anyone care to explain?
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  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    There was Agents of Yesterday content that were not exclusively in the 23rd Century. I surmise that the Age of Discovery content will be similar in form. I disagree that DSC content will bleed players anymore then other Series content that fans did not like.

    The hatred for TRIBBLE is the worst I've ever seen towards a Star Trek show. I'm in my mid-40s and I've seen the hatred for the motion picture, ST:TNG, ST:DS9, STV, etc. and it was nothing like this.
    I understand why CBS had to change the aesthetic of Star Trek: they share the IP with Paramount and thus have attempted to make a new look and feel that separates it from Paramount's Star Trek. However, there is a "right" way to make constructive change and there is a "wrong" way. Clearly CBS's TRIBBLE crew did it the wrong way because the hatred towards the look of the show (which is the main complaint I've seen) is strong. Nearly as strong as the hatred Star Wars fans have for the Disney Star Wars universe, but for different reasons.
    Honestly, I think all of this could be defused if Alex Kurtzman came out and declared TRIBBLE to be its own universe. That would end the hatred almost overnight (there would still be some haters, but with it being in its own universe the currently legitimate criticism of TRIBBLE would not longer have any weight).

    No, there wasn't more hatred for DSC than any other post-TOS series. If you want to keep fueling your own hatred for a series because of reasons, go for it.
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    iamynaught wrote: »
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    37841090_10156218793870358_5796188039604600832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cd36dfad4c9b21eb8fb6ac8288df42bc&oe=5BCC9363

    Okay, I've seen a few folks say they love this. Is it some sort of pop culture reference? I understand that it's meant to be taken in the vein of the episode of TNG that pic is taken from (Darmok), but I just don't get it.

    Anyone care to explain?

    What image are you on about?

    Edit: never mind I can see it now, this is from Darmok yes, it also a reference to when someone feels the need to post about them leaving something like a Facebook group etc etc, they are called felicia.
    JtaDmwW.png
  • michael#8928 michael Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Very excited! Thank you, Cryptic!
  • iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    jam3s1701 wrote: »

    What image are you on about?

    Edit: never mind I can see it now, this is from Darmok yes, it also a reference to when someone feels the need to post about them leaving something like a Facebook group etc etc, they are called felicia.

    Aha, that helps a lot. Thank you.
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    Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    Heh, its funny a few of the vocal TRIBBLE defence force have not posted for years, one whose posts have a 2 year gap before suddenly posting defending this...
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    > @burstorion said:
    > Heh, its funny a few of the vocal TRIBBLE defence force have not posted for years, one whose posts have a 2 year gap before suddenly posting defending this...

    If you mean me it is because I have taken a BIG break from the game until VIL.
    JtaDmwW.png
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,938 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    New Content? Yes.

    Discovery Content? Nope. And here's why.

    SJWs took over that production destroying everything in an attempt to make a political statement.
    ^^^
    Um have you actually ever bother to WATCH Star Trek over the past 50+ years? Seriously.

    (Psst - Here's a clue...Star Trek has been making such political statements and social commentary since the days of TOS in the 1960ies, as has every incarnation since.)
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  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    It speaks well to the health of the game, and it's a pretty good fit (this game thrives on constant war rather than peaceful exploration, doing good, and solving problems). I'm just not a fan of recent Trek properties. The philosophy of Star Trek has gotten a little lost in the new movies and now the new show. Are people really craving darkness in their entertainment these days?
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    yay for some of it ...

    **** no for the tier 6 rep grind.

    I agree with this. Reps are headache enough without expanding to Tier 6, which will probably require as many marks as the 1 to 5 journey.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    burstorion wrote: »
    Heh, its funny a few of the vocal TRIBBLE defence force have not posted for years, one whose posts have a 2 year gap before suddenly posting defending this...

    And there are just as many with 2 or 3 posts that just made accounts to bash Discovery. Happens on both sides of the argument.

    It's moot either way, the Discovery stuff is coming rather anyone likes it or not.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    burstorion wrote: »
    Heh, its funny a few of the vocal TRIBBLE defence force have not posted for years, one whose posts have a 2 year gap before suddenly posting defending this...

    And there are just as many with 2 or 3 posts that just made accounts to bash Discovery. Happens on both sides of the argument.

    It's moot either way, the Discovery stuff is coming rather anyone likes it or not.

    Yup, there's plenty of posts in the New section thread about this very topic bashing Disco from people with only 1-2 posts to their name. It's as if the new content was released and suddenly all these legit players decided now was the time to make a forum account.......hmmmm... ;)

    But at the end of the day Discovery content is coming, Discovery is canon and that's just the way it is. If you dislike it that badly , go elsewhere for your Trek hit.
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  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 825 Arc User
    Free stuff...can you say HECK yes!

    I have been doing STO since it went Beta and I approve of ANY new content. I wasn't crazy about AOY but heck I would take anything like DR or AOY anyday since it does reflect this MMO is doing well.​​
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,867 Arc User
    Talon, please learn to use the quote function. Your multiple > symbols are giving me a headache.

    If CBS had not enforced their trademark on Star Trek, it would have been weakened severely. We had prolonged discussions about this back when the whole thing went down, but it can be boiled down to this: "Aspirin" was once a trademarked name for acetasalicylic acid tablets manufactured by Bayer. Bayer failed to defend their copyright when other companies packaged their own "Aspirin" tablets, and now the term is generic. (That's why when you purchase kleenex from any company besides Kimberly-Clark, it's labeled "facial tissue" and not "Kleenex", because Kimberly-Clark has a team of attorneys standing by to come down like a ton of tissue paper on anyone violating their trademark.)

    Also, while the superior acting of the people dragooned into making Prelude To Axanar masked it, the story itself was thin gruel indeed. All you've got is "an impending war". We've seen that before, and done better; making clunky-looking ships with the TOS aesthetic didn't make it a superior product. Nor did invoking Garth of Izar, whose backstory doesn't really need to be explored - he was Kirk's hero when Kirk was at the Academy, then he went nuts, tried to destroy a planet, was confined by his crew, and went to an asylum. That's all we need about him, quite frankly.
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    New Content? Yes.

    Discovery Content? Nope. And here's why.

    SJWs took over that production destroying everything in an attempt to make a political statement.
    ^^^
    Um have you actually ever bother to WATCH Star Trek over the past 50+ years? Seriously.

    (Psst - Here's a clue...Star Trek has been making such political statements and social commentary since the days of TOS in the 1960ies, as has every incarnation since.)

    to be fair, Star Trek (the original) handled their politics better and more smoothly, and were less...obvious about pushing an agenda rather than telling a story. (there were some anvilicious episodes, but in general, Star Trek was better at 'showing' rahter than 'telling' or 'talking' their vision of the future.)

    What few anvilicious TOS episodes existed were 3rd season, when the show was in a very serious decline. Before that, the political and social statements were very main stream for the time, indeed far from progressive. They instead were morality plays about issues that have faced mankind from the beginning of western culture. They were as a result timeless and spoke to everyone from any era.

    1st season examples: "Balance of Terror", "Arena", "Galileo Seven", The City on the Edge of Forever" all supported the idea that being prepared for and willingness to use justified (but only justified) violence was a requirement for peace. Where 'No man has gone Before" talked to the eternal issue of being corrupted by power, and again the need to kill when the threat is great enough. "This Side of Paradise" warned against the seduction of paradise, which if achieved would destroy the core nature of what it is to be human.

    On the flip side, "The Devil in the Dark" warned one to be certain of that "Justified" part before resorting to force while "Errand of Mercy" and "Arena" gave the same lesson, targeting mostly the Klingons and Gorns (who shot first in both cases).

    Season 2 once again warned about paradise with the "Apple". It pointed out that the universe can be a very dangerous place even when minding one's own affairs in "The Doomsday Machine", "Wolf in the Fold", and "The Immunity Syndrome". Warned against misunderstanding history in "Patterns of Force" and against immortality with "Return to Tomorrow".

    The only progressive (SJW, PC, whatever you wish to call it) in the first two seasons was the multi-cultural crew of the Enterprise, which wasn't really as uncommon as people like to think for the time period. The UN was 20 years old, and the idea of a future that included a would without racism showed up in many shows and movies of the era.


    Season 3 provides the only possible examples of progressive/SJW/PC thought. Even here however, it's very rare and is weak sauce. Looking over the list- only "Let that be your Last Battlefield" and "The Way to Eden" stand out. And the latter one basically stated "space hippies may be looking for something good, but they do it in the wrong way and in the wrong place". The former hardly promotes SJW, if anything it promotes outgrowing and forgetting about the whole subject.

    One had to wait until TNG for that. And there one gets it to one's heart's desire.

    The TOS was hardly the mother load of "making such political statements and social commentary". There is a lot of revisionism about the TOS, and it's characters. In another related subject, I think the original James Kirk didn't make it out of TOS (and maybe not all the way through even 3rd season)- the movie versions were a completely different character.

    But I'll leave that just sit there. This post is long enough. I will say that I consider everything after TOS to an alternate universe, and I don't give a flip for what the creators of the shows say.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,563 Arc User
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    talonxv wrote: »
    > @jam3s1701 said:
    > > @the1tigglet said:
    > > Let me just add, that if they were interested in coming out with relevant new content, why not make Axanar content be the next content patch?!
    >
    > Because Axanar is not canon.
    >
    > Also did you forget the lawsuit to stop that man.
    >
    > Oh and next you'll be asking for unicorns

    Sad part is Axanar was better than TRIBBLE. By a LONG shot.

    I would agree with this, though it is a shame they didn't manage things better and caused all the fallout they did. The teaser they did was FANTASTIC as well as stuck more with the traditional look of that era.

    No, Axanar needs to be forgotten and buried in a deep hole for what the organizer have done to the Trek Fandom. The individuals who made Prelude did a good job with the task that was given to them. I, for one, loved Discovery and thinks that is a great cross promotion for the franchise. This should have been done when Discovery and the other movies were made.

    I don't think it ever will be forgotten. Those people did Trek better than the people who own the IP.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    "Ok bad for not getting our OK" and slapped him on the wrist, then licenced Axanar and produced it. Instead CBS came out so heavy handed that they killed off fan productions like Axanar or the fan show that filled in the last year and a half of the 5 year mission before Kirk got promoted and the Enterprise got her refit.
    CBS tried that, but Peters and his rabid lawyers chose to reject it. Also Peters didn't MAKE Prelude, which is what you think was good.
    If Cryptic releases some $130 to $150 "Discovery Set" or even a cheaper "Starter Set" they are going to get a shock at how unpopular that will be.
    Just my thoughts on the subject.
    Yes, I imagine they will be very shocked at how much money they've made.
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    reyan01 wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    Not really a Discovery fan because...

    [*] Sounds like another Fed only mini faction. Where's the love for KDF?
    I genuinely agree with this part, because while I enjoy chances to create new STO characters as part of events, the fact that Cryptic NEVER seems to consider allowing the Klingon (or Romulan) factions to be a part of it is really frustrating.
    Worse for KDF, since the entirety of Legacy of Romulus introduced, and was about, the Romulans.
    Wasn't that the same expansion that gave use the ability to start KDF characters at level 1?
    if the new Exec. Producer's words mean a continues push of TRIBBLE in STO, the game is going to bleed a lot of players (myself included) who want nothing to do with TRIBBLE.
    Well, the poll results suggest that most players aren't that unhappy about it.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    to be fair, Star Trek (the original) handled their politics better and more smoothly, and were less...obvious about pushing an agenda rather than telling a story. (there were some anvilicious episodes, but in general, Star Trek was better at 'showing' rahter than 'telling' or 'talking' their vision of the future.)
    Which were the non-anvilicious TOS eps? because I remember pretty much all of them as being that way that or just not having any thing to do with morality at all.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User

    If potential players do not like that emphasis then they are not really into Star Trek as a whole, they are into TRIBBLE.
    STO is a post-Voyager game and has been since it was released. You just admitted I'm correct by stating that STO has already covered the 23rd Century, so doing so again with what amounts to an expansion for the sole purpose of promoting TRIBBLE is redundant and thus a waste of time. Many of us dislike TRIBBLE for a wide variety of reasons and are not ever going to pay for it no matter how much CBS attempts to force it on us. As I've stated consistently, you Drekkers should be have content from TRIBBLE for your personal use, what should not be in game is anything that is required for character advancement that is connected to TRIBBLE.
    The new content is being advertised as an expansion, not just new content that can be ignored. We've yet to see how invasive this new content will be, but understand that "new" players are not likely to be PAYING players since younger players tend to not have as much money as older players.
    TRIBBLE is now 25 years old. Most fans of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine are probably from back then, so I don't know why you'd say that people attracted by it would be "young".

    And I always thought that DS9 had a rough start, but eventually became the most popular Star Trek series, since it's so much more relevant in its topics to today, and also has some of the more complex story arcs, closer to what modern TV and Streaming television has to offer. It put a more "realistic" spin on the universe, without losing Star Trek's sense of hope in the future. It balanced the Dark with the Light well.

    But I am not sure why we are still talking about TRIBBLE. Victory of Life is "done", the next big thing is Star Trek Discovery. DSC will probably bring in some younger people, but probably also plenty "old" fans whose Star Trek love just got reinvigorated after such a long absence. I have 4 or 5 colleagues around my age that have watched it, and they are mostly middle class basically, so if people like them get into STO as well, they'd have neat disposable income.


    TRIBBLE is not 25 years old nor is it ST:DS9.
    You will not force me, or anyone else to use "DSC" to describe TRIBBLE.

    The irony is that you insist on reserving two letters for the franchise you claim the show is not really part of for the show's acronym, where Star Trek show acronyms never included the franchise in the first place. So in trying to insult it, you focusing even more on making it really a part of Star Trek.
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    We do not know as of yet, it depends on how invasive the content will be.
    Hopefully it will just be for the TRIBBLE fans and not be unavoidable content.

    Even if it were to be "invasive", you still don't need to play it.

    True, and I would not pay for it either and that means leaving STO entirely and no longer giving them my money.

    I certainly won't pay them for anything TRIBBLE related, just as I didn't pay them anything for VIL (as I have zero interest in in anything from that release). But since I can fly my Connie. Their story line is completely unimportant compared to just flying around with that ship and has been since New Romulus. So no need for me to leave, I'll just take the freebies and use the Admiralty Cards.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,938 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    New Content? Yes.

    Discovery Content? Nope. And here's why.

    SJWs took over that production destroying everything in an attempt to make a political statement.
    ^^^
    Um have you actually ever bother to WATCH Star Trek over the past 50+ years? Seriously.

    (Psst - Here's a clue...Star Trek has been making such political statements and social commentary since the days of TOS in the 1960ies, as has every incarnation since.)

    to be fair, Star Trek (the original) handled their politics better and more smoothly, and were less...obvious about pushing an agenda rather than telling a story. (there were some anvilicious episodes, but in general, Star Trek was better at 'showing' rahter than 'telling' or 'talking' their vision of the future.)

    What few anvilicious TOS episodes existed were 3rd season, when the show was in a very serious decline. Before that, the political and social statements were very main stream for the time, indeed far from progressive. They instead were morality plays about issues that have faced mankind from the beginning of western culture. They were as a result timeless and spoke to everyone from any era.

    1st season examples: "Balance of Terror", "Arena", "Galileo Seven", The City on the Edge of Forever" all supported the idea that being prepared for and willingness to use justified (but only justified) violence was a requirement for peace. Where 'No man has gone Before" talked to the eternal issue of being corrupted by power, and again the need to kill when the threat is great enough. "This Side of Paradise" warned against the seduction of paradise, which if achieved would destroy the core nature of what it is to be human.

    On the flip side, "The Devil in the Dark" warned one to be certain of that "Justified" part before resorting to force while "Errand of Mercy" and "Arena" gave the same lesson, targeting mostly the Klingons and Gorns (who shot first in both cases).

    Season 2 once again warned about paradise with the "Apple". It pointed out that the universe can be a very dangerous place even when minding one's own affairs in "The Doomsday Machine", "Wolf in the Fold", and "The Immunity Syndrome". Warned against misunderstanding history in "Patterns of Force" and against immortality with "Return to Tomorrow".

    The only progressive (SJW, PC, whatever you wish to call it) in the first two seasons was the multi-cultural crew of the Enterprise, which wasn't really as uncommon as people like to think for the time period. The UN was 20 years old, and the idea of a future that included a would without racism showed up in many shows and movies of the era.


    Season 3 provides the only possible examples of progressive/SJW/PC thought. Even here however, it's very rare and is weak sauce. Looking over the list- only "Let that be your Last Battlefield" and "The Way to Eden" stand out. And the latter one basically stated "space hippies may be looking for something good, but they do it in the wrong way and in the wrong place". The former hardly promotes SJW, if anything it promotes outgrowing and forgetting about the whole subject.

    One had to wait until TNG for that. And there one gets it to one's heart's desire.

    The TOS was hardly the mother load of "making such political statements and social commentary". There is a lot of revisionism about the TOS, and it's characters. In another related subject, I think the original James Kirk didn't make it out of TOS (and maybe not all the way through even 3rd season)- the movie versions were a completely different character.

    But I'll leave that just sit there. This post is long enough. I will say that I consider everything after TOS to an alternate universe, and I don't give a flip for what the creators of the shows say.

    I don't think you loved at the time TOS was first run:

    The Doomsday Machine - was very much a "Hey neither the U.S., U.S.S.R. or China should be building large nuclear arsenals in the hope to keep each other from launching first (IE Mutually Assured Destruction is a BAD foriegn policy tool).

    Assignment: Earth - Putting orbital nuclear weapon platforms (something BOTH the U.S. and U.S.S.R. militaries at then time thought was a great idea) is a really bad idea.

    And sorry, but saying "The only progressive (SJW, PC, whatever you wish to call it) in the first two seasons was the multi-cultural crew of the Enterprise.." is also BS. TOS showed female Star Fleet members IN COMBAT (both in space and on the ground) - and commanding Male subordinates <--- That wasn't happening in the U.S. military branches in the 1960ies and many women (my mother among them) didn't like that being portrayed as she didn't want to see woman added to draft lists in the future.

    From TOS - "Balance of Terror":
    STILES: Give it to Spock.
    KIRK: I didn't quite get that, Mister Stiles.
    STILES: Nothing, sir.
    KIRK: Repeat it.
    STILES: I was suggesting that Mister Spock could probably translate it for you, sir.
    KIRK: I assume you're complimenting Mister Spock on his ability to decode.
    STILES: I'm not sure, sir.
    KIRK: Well, here's one thing you can be sure of, Mister. Leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for it on the Bridge. Do I make myself clear?
    STILES: You do, sir.
    ^^^
    This at a time when the U.S. military had zero issues with bigotry on the battlefield.

    The main reason you think TOS wasn't making some fairly radical political statements in the 1960ies is because you don't really know (or if you are around my age or older) ; remember some of the political climate of the era. TOS in general was anti-war at a time when many felt it WAS the U.S. job to project power (to slow the spread of Chinese and Soviet Communism around the world.) The Vietnam conflict was VERY DIVISIVE and political in itself and while there were many in the U.S. who supported it, there were many who didn't and any pro or anti war messages were considered VERY political at the time and most shows strayed away from making such political statements one way or the other.

    Yes, there were many other TV shows based on WWII <--- But the morality of that conflict was well established and ultimately seen as a necessary conflict because of the actions of both the TRIBBLE's and the Japanese (who started the war against the U.S. with a sneak attack) - so those shows weren't seen as making political statements at the time.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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