DPS parsing for 50k or more moves from ISA to HSE - great addition or performance scaling disaster?

casualsto

//Discuss.

xxxhellspawnyxxx

Good luck with that.​​

casualsto

I'm curious on the people's output. I have a solid opinion that I will not address until we grab some other opinions along the way.

seaofsorrows

I actually would like it.. but don't expect it to ever catch on.

I actually parse higher in HSE then I do in ISA. I can deal damage just fine, I have never mastered the 'proper movement' to parse well in ISA. In ISA, you have to get to the right spots at the right times, I always spend way too much time out of combat to get a good parse.

HSE is much easier to inflate numbers because it depends less on getting to the right place at the right time. It probably wouldn't make a good map for parsing overall though just because of the Queen and her Feedback Pulse. I wouldn't expect the standard to shift from ISA anytime soon.. if ever.

spencerb96

We decided earlier to not make the change for 50k. Only 75k and Prime will be changed.

This was based on feedback we received throughout the day.

We welcome any feedback on the topic. Is why we've announced it a head of time.

casualsto

@spencerb96 , I'd like to partially reconsider my point of view also. The HSE for 75k+ allows users to become useful in varied types of builds, making tanks and sci ships highly useful, alongside with well crafted crf/csv escorts, encouraging team diversity. I sincerely hope it catches on. I'll try adjusting some builds to this and give it a go post ViL launch. Fingers crossed though.

peterconnorfirst

seaofsorrows wrote: »

I actually would like it.. but don't expect it to ever catch on.

I actually parse higher in HSE then I do in ISA. I can deal damage just fine, I have never mastered the 'proper movement' to parse well in ISA. In ISA, you have to get to the right spots at the right times, I always spend way too much time out of combat to get a good parse.

HSE is much easier to inflate numbers because it depends less on getting to the right place at the right time. It probably wouldn't make a good map for parsing overall though just because of the Queen and her Feedback Pulse. I wouldn't expect the standard to shift from ISA anytime soon.. if ever.

Well said. I take it you noticed on the HSE runs we did in the past that depending on the team’s strength that map is already at ISA difficulty if not easier in light of the mere lack of movement requirements. If we engage it with 3 players we halfway get a fight out of it, take one more and we can get back to pugging ISA.

It’s really sad that cryptic forces the player base to come up with game-sided solutions for performance players instead of simply offering adequate difficulty settings for all the popular maps we currently have. Here is to lvl 65 and Mk15 gear.


Edit:

FBP of the diamond isn’t an issue when teams have a sci with subnuke. Think there should also be special consoles or intel clickers from the respective ships around for that but would need to check.

peterconnorfirst

casualsto wrote: »

...making tanks and sci ships highly useful...

Just be carful mate not to be found out as Nannie! The holy DPS Inquisition and grand Jury of what’s right and wrong to use has its eyes and ears everywhere.

Joking aside you are absolutely correct. The team-elements present in this game are there just not used by many. The result however is that your pointed out way could lead to builds/teams which can easily get into DPS 75K but will have trouble getting into DPS 50K now.

baudl

I'm still scratching my head why on earth there is no foundry mission that is the gold standard for parsing DPS. A more "sterile" environment to test just seems to be more "scientific".

charon83

baudl wrote: »

I'm still scratching my head why on earth there is no foundry mission that is the gold standard for parsing DPS. A more "sterile" environment to test just seems to be more "scientific".

This, can't tell how many times Pugs just make your day worse in ISA. Best one yet was someone pulling a gravity well right to the sphere next to me near the first conduit and killing myself due to warp core breaches, i was slightly amused by that actually. As for the idea of HSE, it'd be a welcome change, but yeah - a "sterile" envirorement would be preferable for solo parses, hell even for team parses that could potentially reduce a lot of the chaos.

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baudl

coldnapalm wrote: »

I like the idea of using HSE as the new benchmark. Mainly because it means more HSE runs.

I doubt (with 99% certainty) that this would translate into an increase in HSE Pug runs/pops in the queue.

seaofsorrows

baudl wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

I like the idea of using HSE as the new benchmark. Mainly because it means more HSE runs.

I doubt (with 99% certainty) that this would translate into an increase in HSE Pug runs/pops in the queue.

I definitely disagree.

If the DPS started running HSE regularly, pugs would queue up. People will queue for missions that have low wait times. Plus, people would eventually figure out that the DPS'ers were running this and they would queue up to leech easy rewards.

Never underestimate the player base ability to find the path of least resistance.

tunebreaker

seaofsorrows wrote: »

I definitely disagree.

If the DPS started running HSE regularly, pugs would queue up. People will queue for missions that have low wait times. Plus, people would eventually figure out that the DPS'ers were running this and they would queue up to leech easy rewards.

Never underestimate the player base ability to find the path of least resistance.

That's the theory, and if it proves right, it'd be amazing. However, I'm worried that the game doesn't have too many players left who'd actually manage to complete HSE. And those who do are reluctant to pug it, opting to fly with their good friends in a premade instead. Or they just join DPS channel premade runs. Sure, for the first couple of weeks, people will be trying in pugs, but after a round of failures, how many will continue if they see they just can't beat it?

Having said that, I definitely support the change, HSE is better and more fun than ISA, especially for higher numbers.

peterconnorfirst

seaofsorrows wrote: »

I definitely disagree.

If the DPS started running HSE regularly, pugs would queue up. People will queue for missions that have low wait times. Plus, people would eventually figure out that the DPS'ers were running this and they would queue up to leech easy rewards.

Never underestimate the player base ability to find the path of least resistance.

tunebreaker wrote: »

That's the theory, and if it proves right, it'd be amazing. However, I'm worried that the game doesn't have too many players left who'd actually manage to complete HSE. And those who do are reluctant to pug it, opting to fly with their good friends in a premade instead. Or they just join DPS channel premade runs. Sure, for the first couple of weeks, people will be trying in pugs, but after a round of failures, how many will continue if they see they just can't beat it?

Having said that, I definitely support the change, HSE is better and more fun than ISA, especially for higher numbers.

What may be a bit counterproductive here is sadly that HSE itself has already become a map were elite teams are in danger to cannibalize each other’s DPS and turn it into just another ISA blow rather fast.

Weak pugs are not issues for us I guess but high random DPSer are well enough in a position to take away the last bit of charm this map has.

What gives! Think what the three of us have been doing the last couple of months where we simply organize a three man group and hit if for ourselves is the way to go. It’s fun to see how so many team play aspects like crowd controlling, de-buffing and even tanking surface and are well in tact when the difficulty of a stage is manipulated artificially towards the strength of a team.

I think we do fine in there so far.

As for uploads to get back 75k I couldn’t care less as I’m not really active there and don’t even know how I reapplied the last couple of times they decided to clear the table.

tunebreaker

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

What may be a bit counterproductive here is sadly that HSE itself has already become a map were elite teams are in danger to cannibalize each other’s DPS and turn it into just another ISA blow rather fast.

Weak pugs are not issues for us I guess but high random DPSer are well enough in a position to take away the last bit of charm this map has.

What gives! Think what the three of us have been doing the last couple of months where we simply organize a three man group and hit if for ourselves is the way to go. It’s fun to see how so many team play aspects like crowd controlling, de-buffing and even tanking surface and are well in tact when the difficulty of a stage is manipulated artificially towards the strength of a team.

I think we do fine in there so far.

As for uploads to get back 75k I couldn’t care less as I’m not really active there and don’t even know how I reapplied the last couple of times they decided to clear the table.

Sure, it can happen even in HSE, given that you have absolute highest performers in queue together. Their builds, previous experience of flying together and even cube spawn-movement can affect the cannibalization of DPS to varying degrees (I know you know all these things, I'm listing them more for the average forum reader ). That is why you have certain amount of players who indeed don't care about pugs, cause they are very well capable of carrying the whole map by themselves.

However, the amount of those players in game is actually incredibly small. Those who are capable of carrying HSE alone can probably be counted on the fingers of two hands. Now the numbers of those who are comfortable enough in HSE with a good friend/teammate and don't care about the remaining 3 are definitely larger, but I still believe we just tend to notice them more frequently than most people would. After all, we tend to seek out likeminded ppl, and as DPS-chasers, we more often keep ourselves around others with similar goals in mind.

However, for an average person sitting in 50k and wanting to get to the next tier of channels, I would presume 75k in HSE would be quite a challenge.

And we, who have already experienced the queue in it's "regular" state hundreds of times, have to invent our own challenges, just like you said.

baudl

seaofsorrows wrote: »

baudl wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

I like the idea of using HSE as the new benchmark. Mainly because it means more HSE runs.

I doubt (with 99% certainty) that this would translate into an increase in HSE Pug runs/pops in the queue.

I definitely disagree.

If the DPS started running HSE regularly, pugs would queue up. People will queue for missions that have low wait times. Plus, people would eventually figure out that the DPS'ers were running this and they would queue up to leech easy rewards.

Never underestimate the player base ability to find the path of least resistance.

but that would be under the assumption that most HSE runs are formed through the public queue. In my experience these groups are formed within the dedicated channels.
I see no correlation between an increase of private HSE to cause an increase in HSE pugs.

darkknightucf

The move to HSE is, imho, long overdue. ISA is just a spam-fest of abilities, and the current HSE is not that far behind. Now, if it was the HSE with higher resist Tac Cubes, I would enjoy that very much! (Damn Cubes pop like party balloons in a cactus forest around Spencer and a few other people)