The trade-off for the wingmen is that none of their abilities can be used while they're dead and waiting to respawn. The numbers on those abilities will have to be balanced around the durability of the killable support ships.
The trade-off for the wingmen is that none of their abilities can be used while they're dead and waiting to respawn. The numbers on those abilities will have to be balanced around the durability of the killable support ships.
I would hardly call that a trade-off. At worst, they're slightly worse frigate pets (longer cool-down?) that are just tacked onto the Vanguard ships, which are themselves decent ships.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Why is the boff seating fore every single one of these ships such total trash? having a commander tact and lt cmdr tact on the same ship seems so bad. need at least 4 eng and 2 sci seats. and why do none of them have any command seats? I'm actually considering asking for my money back, I'm a romulan that flys torp boats and so far with these stats the most exciting thing i've seen about this entire expansion is that i'll finally be able to get the 180 quantum torp.
The Dreadnought Cruiser has a Lt. Commander eng/command seat. As for the poor BOff layouts, it's my suspicion that that's the trade-off for the wingmen feature.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
> @wardcalis said: > Why is the boff seating fore every single one of these ships such total trash? having a commander tact and lt cmdr tact on the same ship seems so bad. need at least 4 eng and 2 sci seats. and why do none of them have any command seats? I'm actually considering asking for my money back, I'm a romulan that flys torp boats and so far with these stats the most exciting thing i've seen about this entire expansion is that i'll finally be able to get the 180 quantum torp.
The Mobile Torpedo Platform Console on the Ghemor should excite you if your a torpedo boat captain.
And the JV Dreadought has a Lt. Commander Command specialist seat.
And there are ways to make up for low Engineering boff seats for healing.
> @jaturnley said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > Here is a quick snap shot of my thoughts on the ships. > > JV Carrier, the King of Frigates, its Trait is going to be popular with fans of other Carriers, especially the Jupiter, whose own trait works well with this ship as it has both good science and descent intel slots. > > The JV Dreadnought Cruiser is a worthy of the title of Flagship along side the Odyssey, Bort, Scimitar. I want to know if its trait applies to pets. > > JV Warship, its like they split the Bugship in two with each half being more extreme in one direction then the other. The Warship is a tankier Destroyer instead of an escort, but at the cost of turn rate. > > JV Heavy Raider, not the fastest Raider or most manvuerable, but tankier then most and the only Raider to have other raiders flying in formation with it. No cloak either. Its less tanky then the bugship, but is more manvuerable and flexible boff layout. Its trait is pure gold for Pilot ships, if you have the skills to keep in the rear arc, I don't. > > The Damar is a worthy Flagship for the Cardassian people. The Damar class is like a Scryer and Annorax had a Cardassian baby. Its got the shields, cloak, gather intel, and Intel Commander Boff slot of the Scryer, but the turn rate, 4/3 weapons, hangar bay, and almost the hull of the Annorax. > > The Ghemor is more like the Blackguard then I'd like, but at least its Intel instead of Command Seating. I really interested in the Torpedo Platform. > > The Depata Intel Escort makes me think of KDF Raptor. Tankier Cardassian version of the Phantom Intel Escort. The trait feels very Cardassian, Preparedness. > > > > > IIRC from the livestream, the DN cruiser's trait does work with the wingmen and attack craft (wingmen are the same type of unit as separated saucers), but Bort wasn't sure if it worked with hangar pets.
With the right build that could offer some serious serviblity benifits for the wingmen.
Not happy with some of the Cardassian ship stats, the science dreadnought only has 3 eng and 3 tac slots, I would've expected it to have 4 tac slots and 2 eng slots since it is a dreadnought after all. Also the escort has a eng ltcom seat which I would rather have it universal.
> @avoozuul said: > Not happy with some of the Cardassian ship stats, the science dreadnought only has 3 eng and 3 tac slots, I would've expected it to have 4 tac slots and 2 eng slots since it is a dreadnought after all. Also the escort has a eng ltcom seat which I would rather have it universal.
Easy solution is to put a universal console in the third Engineering slot that happens to boost weapon damage. Or even the Damar's own universal console which deals its own damage. Or equipt the Nausicaan weapon set which boosts your disruptor damage to make up for it. Or a weapon power boosting console.
The trade-off for the wingmen is that none of their abilities can be used while they're dead and waiting to respawn. The numbers on those abilities will have to be balanced around the durability of the killable support ships.
I would hardly call that a trade-off. At worst, they're slightly worse frigate pets (longer cool-down?) that are just tacked onto the Vanguard ships, which are themselves decent ships.
Three action bar slots that can potentially be disabled by a torpedo spread or a Vaadwaur artillery strike? I mean, it remains to be seen what the numbers on the tooltip are and what the cooldowns are, but for now I'll have to respectfully disagree.
Damm its saddens me to see that the pets use vanilla polaron flavored weapons. I really dont like the wably looks of those. Its not even canon since in the show dominion ship used phased polaron weapons. Can we have those, or at least Dominion polaron flavor weapons on the frigates pets please? Both new and old ones would be great since many pets have these like iconian herald pets, elachi pets and so on...
I think that the choice of specializations is odd. I think the carrier should have command, the dreadnought cruiser should have miracle worker, and the warship should have intel.
I agree the carrier is odd the biggest command ship in the game with the most amount of units under its command has no command. Little disappointed it has a Intel and sci focus as well. Doesn't really fit with that style of ship. Carriers doing Intel makes sense but the ingame Intel powers don't really go with the role of a Carrier.
To me a Carrier is about sitting in the fleet and doing support, relaying information and indirectly helping. Not casting sci powers. A Carrier should be taking command and doing the command role of all the units under its control.
The Hanger pets look like they will underperform compared to attack frigates. Needs testing but going by the stats the Vanguard Gunboats don’t look like they synergise as well. They still look good just not as good as Attack ships.
For example I use coordinated assault with Dominion coordination. So I run with Beam Overlord and Rapid fire with attack Frigates. This gives all the frigates extra beam overloads and extra Rapid Fires along with a damage boost. The Vanguard Gunboats frigates are going to lose those extra powers and extra damage boost due to not having cannons.
EDIT: The carrier trait looks a bit useless as stealth and –threat generation don’t work in game or do anything useful. More so pets with FaW which will override the above. I do not see a way to benefit from this trait or a reason to use it. Not sure the new carrier trait stacked onto a Stalker Fighters with its extra stealth will do anything useful.
On the positive side it does look like the carrier will be the best carrier in game due to the amount of units under its control. I plan to fly it without using main weapons and just pure pets.
Easy solution is to put a universal console in the third Engineering slot that happens to boost weapon damage. Or even the Damar's own universal console which deals its own damage. Or equipt the Nausicaan weapon set which boosts your disruptor damage to make up for it. Or a weapon power boosting console.
One problem with what you are suggesting is if you rely on vulnerability locators which boost either critical severity or critical chance you will miss out on that extra crit which a fourth slot would allow.
Funny thing is I do have a disruptor build which uses the nausicaan set but it still does better with 4/5 tactical slots than only 3.
> @avoozuul said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > Easy solution is to put a universal console in the third Engineering slot that happens to boost weapon damage. Or even the Damar's own universal console which deals its own damage. Or equipt the Nausicaan weapon set which boosts your disruptor damage to make up for it. Or a weapon power boosting console. > > > > One problem with what you are suggesting is if you rely on vulnerability locators which boost either critical severity or critical chance you will miss out on that extra crit which a fourth slot would allow. > > Funny thing is I do have a disruptor build which uses the nausicaan set but it still does better with 4/5 tactical slots than only 3.
My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it.
The console from the radiant set will buff your weapons by 10% plus boost your shield and hull healing by 20%, its not a tac console giving say 28% damage boost to a particular damage type, but its better then nothing.
Personally I'll just slot the Mobile Torpedo Platform there. Btw what is the difference between a Platform that moves and a Ship?
The Yukuwa Frigates are weird in that usually the difference between a stand model and the elite model of a pet is power level, but they play basically the same, but the armiment of the Yukuwas are so different from Standard to Elite that you might want to utilitize them differently.
I mean Standard Yukuwas will do the most of their damage broadsiding targets because they have 4 Beam Arrays, so you you can largely launch them and forget about them, but the Dual Beam Banks of the Elite Version will likely have a problem keeping there beams on target because of the smaller arc.
If you baby sat the Elite Yukuwas they might do more damage then the Standard Yukuwas, but normally I could see the Standard Yukuwas dealing more damage because its easier for them to keep their weapons on target. Does anyone here have experience with pets with dual beam banks? Do they have as hard a time keeping their dual beam banks on target as dual cannon pets do?
Do the devs have some obsession with the same repetitive "Commander, 2 Lt. Commander, Lt, Ensign" layout or something? Seriously, there is no variety among these ships, they're just gimmicks of other starships in the game. Why not add more interesting BOFF stations, like that "Commander, Lt. Commander, and 3 Lt" stations, like on the Heavy Escort Carrier T6? Seriously, who even thinks that having an ENSIGN on an advanced warship is a good idea anyways!? These ships are just boring.
Jem'Hadar ships come with wing-men because apparently, I need someone to hold my hand while fighting. And the Cardassians just get Intel ships, which come with a useless passive stealth ability.
Also, could you please stop wasting time and inform people that this package will be available on the ZEN store? It's kind of pathetic to not tell people that.
My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it.
Yes I know that ships won't always be the way I want, but my complaint was the fact that it didn't have the usual setup a science dreadnought would have.
> @avoozuul said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it. > > > > Yes I know that ships won't always be the way I want, but my complaint was the fact that it didn't have the usual setup a science dreadnought would have.
Oh, well that is because its really a cross between a Science Dreadnought and an Intel Science ship, an Intel Science Dreadnought. Its shields mod, cloak, Masked Energy Signiture, are more like the Scryer, and its Hull is closer to a Science Dreadnought, it also has the Science Dreadnoughts 4/3 weapon slots and low turn rate. Perhaps its console slots are more like the Scryer as well.
Btw am I the only one looking foreward to seeing the unique Cardassian cloaking visual? Its interestimg that the Cardassians developed their cloaking tech independantly so it looks different.
Actually it makes sense that the Romulans and Klingons cloaking tech looks the same, except for the Surcogus ship which I think was developed before the Klingons aquired Romulan cloaking tech. But it why do the other cloaking ships look the same? Well the limited Fed cloaking tech is based on Romulan cloaking tech as well. But the rest?
> @avoozuul said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it. > > > > Yes I know that ships won't always be the way I want, but my complaint was the fact that it didn't have the usual setup a science dreadnought would have.
Part of the reason for that is to make up for the cloak, mask energy signature, and Gather Intel that the Damar Class gets compared to other Science Dreadnoughts.
It like how when they release a three pack, the Klingon ships always get a cloak, but at the expense of lower hull and/or shields, its a trade off.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
> @wardcalis said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > > @wardcalis said: > > Why is the boff seating fore every single one of these ships such total trash? having a commander tact and lt cmdr tact on the same ship seems so bad. need at least 4 eng and 2 sci seats. and why do none of them have any command seats? I'm actually considering asking for my money back, I'm a romulan that flys torp boats and so far with these stats the most exciting thing i've seen about this entire expansion is that i'll finally be able to get the 180 quantum torp. > > The Mobile Torpedo Platform Console on the Ghemor should excite you if your a torpedo boat captain. > > And the JV Dreadought has a Lt. Commander Command specialist seat. > > And there are ways to make up for low Engineering boff seats for healing. > > What kind of build do you prefer? > > > > > Lets see, an ideal ship would be a 5/3 weapon loadout with 5 tact consoles and 10+turn , it'd have the Sheshar command ships exact boff seating and would look beautiful and graceful. The last ship romulans got that came close to beautiful were the command ships, but they had a host of problems. I really wish we could reskin stuff, the hazari destroyer, the D'Deridex, all these vangaurd ships, they look amazing. it seems like if a ship looks nice it's taxed in the stats somewhere
All the Cardassian ships have great stats and some are worried they are over powered.
Comments
I would hardly call that a trade-off. At worst, they're slightly worse frigate pets (longer cool-down?) that are just tacked onto the Vanguard ships, which are themselves decent ships.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
The Dreadnought Cruiser has a Lt. Commander eng/command seat. As for the poor BOff layouts, it's my suspicion that that's the trade-off for the wingmen feature.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
> Why is the boff seating fore every single one of these ships such total trash? having a commander tact and lt cmdr tact on the same ship seems so bad. need at least 4 eng and 2 sci seats. and why do none of them have any command seats? I'm actually considering asking for my money back, I'm a romulan that flys torp boats and so far with these stats the most exciting thing i've seen about this entire expansion is that i'll finally be able to get the 180 quantum torp.
The Mobile Torpedo Platform Console on the Ghemor should excite you if your a torpedo boat captain.
And the JV Dreadought has a Lt. Commander Command specialist seat.
And there are ways to make up for low Engineering boff seats for healing.
What kind of build do you prefer?
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> Here is a quick snap shot of my thoughts on the ships.
>
> JV Carrier, the King of Frigates, its Trait is going to be popular with fans of other Carriers, especially the Jupiter, whose own trait works well with this ship as it has both good science and descent intel slots.
>
> The JV Dreadnought Cruiser is a worthy of the title of Flagship along side the Odyssey, Bort, Scimitar. I want to know if its trait applies to pets.
>
> JV Warship, its like they split the Bugship in two with each half being more extreme in one direction then the other. The Warship is a tankier Destroyer instead of an escort, but at the cost of turn rate.
>
> JV Heavy Raider, not the fastest Raider or most manvuerable, but tankier then most and the only Raider to have other raiders flying in formation with it. No cloak either. Its less tanky then the bugship, but is more manvuerable and flexible boff layout. Its trait is pure gold for Pilot ships, if you have the skills to keep in the rear arc, I don't.
>
> The Damar is a worthy Flagship for the Cardassian people. The Damar class is like a Scryer and Annorax had a Cardassian baby. Its got the shields, cloak, gather intel, and Intel Commander Boff slot of the Scryer, but the turn rate, 4/3 weapons, hangar bay, and almost the hull of the Annorax.
>
> The Ghemor is more like the Blackguard then I'd like, but at least its Intel instead of Command Seating. I really interested in the Torpedo Platform.
>
> The Depata Intel Escort makes me think of KDF Raptor. Tankier Cardassian version of the Phantom Intel Escort. The trait feels very Cardassian, Preparedness.
>
>
>
>
> IIRC from the livestream, the DN cruiser's trait does work with the wingmen and attack craft (wingmen are the same type of unit as separated saucers), but Bort wasn't sure if it worked with hangar pets.
With the right build that could offer some serious serviblity benifits for the wingmen.
> Not happy with some of the Cardassian ship stats, the science dreadnought only has 3 eng and 3 tac slots, I would've expected it to have 4 tac slots and 2 eng slots since it is a dreadnought after all. Also the escort has a eng ltcom seat which I would rather have it universal.
Easy solution is to put a universal console in the third Engineering slot that happens to boost weapon damage. Or even the Damar's own universal console which deals its own damage. Or equipt the Nausicaan weapon set which boosts your disruptor damage to make up for it. Or a weapon power boosting console.
Three action bar slots that can potentially be disabled by a torpedo spread or a Vaadwaur artillery strike? I mean, it remains to be seen what the numbers on the tooltip are and what the cooldowns are, but for now I'll have to respectfully disagree.
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To me a Carrier is about sitting in the fleet and doing support, relaying information and indirectly helping. Not casting sci powers. A Carrier should be taking command and doing the command role of all the units under its control.
The Hanger pets look like they will underperform compared to attack frigates. Needs testing but going by the stats the Vanguard Gunboats don’t look like they synergise as well. They still look good just not as good as Attack ships.
For example I use coordinated assault with Dominion coordination. So I run with Beam Overlord and Rapid fire with attack Frigates. This gives all the frigates extra beam overloads and extra Rapid Fires along with a damage boost. The Vanguard Gunboats frigates are going to lose those extra powers and extra damage boost due to not having cannons.
EDIT: The carrier trait looks a bit useless as stealth and –threat generation don’t work in game or do anything useful. More so pets with FaW which will override the above. I do not see a way to benefit from this trait or a reason to use it. Not sure the new carrier trait stacked onto a Stalker Fighters with its extra stealth will do anything useful.
On the positive side it does look like the carrier will be the best carrier in game due to the amount of units under its control. I plan to fly it without using main weapons and just pure pets.
need to find where to buy this pack...damn you cryptic and your awesome ship designs lol
Funny thing is I do have a disruptor build which uses the nausicaan set but it still does better with 4/5 tactical slots than only 3.
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> Easy solution is to put a universal console in the third Engineering slot that happens to boost weapon damage. Or even the Damar's own universal console which deals its own damage. Or equipt the Nausicaan weapon set which boosts your disruptor damage to make up for it. Or a weapon power boosting console.
>
>
>
> One problem with what you are suggesting is if you rely on vulnerability locators which boost either critical severity or critical chance you will miss out on that extra crit which a fourth slot would allow.
>
> Funny thing is I do have a disruptor build which uses the nausicaan set but it still does better with 4/5 tactical slots than only 3.
My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it.
The console from the radiant set will buff your weapons by 10% plus boost your shield and hull healing by 20%, its not a tac console giving say 28% damage boost to a particular damage type, but its better then nothing.
Personally I'll just slot the Mobile Torpedo Platform there. Btw what is the difference between a Platform that moves and a Ship?
I mean Standard Yukuwas will do the most of their damage broadsiding targets because they have 4 Beam Arrays, so you you can largely launch them and forget about them, but the Dual Beam Banks of the Elite Version will likely have a problem keeping there beams on target because of the smaller arc.
If you baby sat the Elite Yukuwas they might do more damage then the Standard Yukuwas, but normally I could see the Standard Yukuwas dealing more damage because its easier for them to keep their weapons on target. Does anyone here have experience with pets with dual beam banks? Do they have as hard a time keeping their dual beam banks on target as dual cannon pets do?
Jem'Hadar ships come with wing-men because apparently, I need someone to hold my hand while fighting. And the Cardassians just get Intel ships, which come with a useless passive stealth ability.
Also, could you please stop wasting time and inform people that this package will be available on the ZEN store? It's kind of pathetic to not tell people that.
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it.
>
>
>
> Yes I know that ships won't always be the way I want, but my complaint was the fact that it didn't have the usual setup a science dreadnought would have.
Oh, well that is because its really a cross between a Science Dreadnought and an Intel Science ship, an Intel Science Dreadnought. Its shields mod, cloak, Masked Energy Signiture, are more like the Scryer, and its Hull is closer to a Science Dreadnought, it also has the Science Dreadnoughts 4/3 weapon slots and low turn rate. Perhaps its console slots are more like the Scryer as well.
Btw am I the only one looking foreward to seeing the unique Cardassian cloaking visual? Its interestimg that the Cardassians developed their cloaking tech independantly so it looks different.
Actually it makes sense that the Romulans and Klingons cloaking tech looks the same, except for the Surcogus ship which I think was developed before the Klingons aquired Romulan cloaking tech. But it why do the other cloaking ships look the same? Well the limited Fed cloaking tech is based on Romulan cloaking tech as well. But the rest?
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> My point was to try to be flexible and think outside the box and understand that not every element of a ship will be exactly the way you want it.
>
>
>
> Yes I know that ships won't always be the way I want, but my complaint was the fact that it didn't have the usual setup a science dreadnought would have.
Part of the reason for that is to make up for the cloak, mask energy signature, and Gather Intel that the Damar Class gets compared to other Science Dreadnoughts.
It like how when they release a three pack, the Klingon ships always get a cloak, but at the expense of lower hull and/or shields, its a trade off.
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> > @wardcalis said:
> > Why is the boff seating fore every single one of these ships such total trash? having a commander tact and lt cmdr tact on the same ship seems so bad. need at least 4 eng and 2 sci seats. and why do none of them have any command seats? I'm actually considering asking for my money back, I'm a romulan that flys torp boats and so far with these stats the most exciting thing i've seen about this entire expansion is that i'll finally be able to get the 180 quantum torp.
>
> The Mobile Torpedo Platform Console on the Ghemor should excite you if your a torpedo boat captain.
>
> And the JV Dreadought has a Lt. Commander Command specialist seat.
>
> And there are ways to make up for low Engineering boff seats for healing.
>
> What kind of build do you prefer?
>
>
>
>
> Lets see, an ideal ship would be a 5/3 weapon loadout with 5 tact consoles and 10+turn , it'd have the Sheshar command ships exact boff seating and would look beautiful and graceful. The last ship romulans got that came close to beautiful were the command ships, but they had a host of problems. I really wish we could reskin stuff, the hazari destroyer, the D'Deridex, all these vangaurd ships, they look amazing. it seems like if a ship looks nice it's taxed in the stats somewhere
All the Cardassian ships have great stats and some are worried they are over powered.