Seems probable that the case will be that it'll be busy for a time but will die off once everyone has grinded out the reputation and returned to playing ISA/CCA repeatedly.
I doubt it.
I do Battle Zones pretty frequently and aside from the always empty Tzenkethi zone, there are always players in them. The Undine Zone has been around forever and it still pretty populated, so is the Badlands. The only reason the Kethi zone is empty is because it is bugged and they won't/can't fix it.
As long as the new BZ isn't a buggy mess, people will play it. Especially if it offers Elite Marks for it's associated Reputation.
Almost anything is more forgiving by design than the Tzenkethi Battlezone. Every other Battlezone didn't give a hundredth of the frustration caused by the Tzenkethi Battlezone. Not sure if it is possible to solo the Gamma Quadrant Battlezone. Getting to the final boss is soloable due to each conquered zone giving additional time and not having to complete as many zones, but unless the final boss is scalable to the number of players in the Battlezone, then I doubt the final boss is soloable.
Better point of reference: this will be more forgiving by design that any other battlezone. It scales considerably both in required objectives and (I'm pretty sure) in the balance of specific encounters. The boss should be soloable by design if you're the only person participating. Previous zones are not directly comparable in this respect, Cryptic is taking a new approach.
Unless each player will have a personal tally running where the time and effort put in prior to the boss.
I believe the answer to that is yes.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Almost anything is more forgiving by design than the Tzenkethi Battlezone. Every other Battlezone didn't give a hundredth of the frustration caused by the Tzenkethi Battlezone. Not sure if it is possible to solo the Gamma Quadrant Battlezone. Getting to the final boss is soloable due to each conquered zone giving additional time and not having to complete as many zones, but unless the final boss is scalable to the number of players in the Battlezone, then I doubt the final boss is soloable.
Better point of reference: this will be more forgiving by design that any other battlezone. It scales considerably both in required objectives and (I'm pretty sure) in the balance of specific encounters. The boss should be soloable by design if you're the only person participating. Previous zones are not directly comparable in this respect, Cryptic is taking a new approach.
Except bosses being soloable was never the problem with BZs. It's always been the exact opposite, the bosses being killed off before players can get credit for fighting them, thus ending up with no rewards. Scaling them could make that even worse.
EDIT: Well, not always, the voth BZ worked well at first, before they broke tagging. But almost always.
Except bosses being soloable was never the problem with BZs. It's always been the exact opposite, the bosses being killed off before players can get credit for fighting them, thus ending up with no rewards. Scaling them could make that even worse.
If the bosses scale down then they will also scale up. You will not find yourself in a situation where you can't reach the boss stage before a group of players of completes it because it's been scaled down for solo completion. That's...just impossible by the logic of the scenario.
As for "never being a problem," so what? Scaling bosses is, in the most extreme case, guarding against the possibility that the population doesn't take to the GQ battlezone (sufficiently to populate 3am games in two years time, by Jessie's example). More broadly, it's balancing the zone with active participants so it stays within the limits of fun. Ie. it doesn't take too long with too few people or flash by with too many.
This is not just to aid soloing. That's merely the furthest established point of scaling down.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Simply by making it "instanced" encounters should in theory prevent the stupidity of the respawn rates that got tailored to the arrogant assumption of a full (and active) zone.
Todays endeavour was kethi kills and it confirmed that the king of the hill nodes in the middle still flip from blue to red in the blink of an eye and that a single player will still be enough to cause 4 battleships to arrive en masse.
Seems probable that the case will be that it'll be busy for a time but will die off once everyone has grinded out the reputation and returned to playing ISA/CCA repeatedly.
You bet! The alternative would be making all new content to be exactly like ISA and CCA but somehow I doubt that would make you happy either.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
So, no ground stuff then I was hoping for something ground given the discrepancy between ground BZ and space BZ currently. (And the bugged Voth BZ that's slowly sliding into complete chaos, which has yet to even be acknowledged).
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Simply by making it "instanced" encounters should in theory prevent the stupidity of the respawn rates that got tailored to the arrogant assumption of a full (and active) zone.
Basic design too: there doesn't seem to be a back-forth territory control aspect with this one. The challenge will be filling the progression meter before time expires (with requirements scaled based on sector population). When it does the entire zone will reset, but rewards will be divvied out based on participation up to that point.
. (And the bugged Voth BZ that's slowly sliding into complete chaos, which has yet to even be acknowledged).
Eh? I checked the support forums (just in case the reddit thread was linked) and I saw you replied to someone telling you that the devs have acknowledged the Voth BZ's issues. You know they're looking into it.
Anyway, ground stuff would be cool and if the devs do more sector battlezones in future (they won't commit prior to release) it's a definite possibility that they'll vary the format in other ways (have to do something new each time). Ground's an easy way to go. That or potentially add on scenarios to the current zone, the design appears fairly modular.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Except bosses being soloable was never the problem with BZs. It's always been the exact opposite, the bosses being killed off before players can get credit for fighting them, thus ending up with no rewards. Scaling them could make that even worse.
If the bosses scale down then they will also scale up. You will not find yourself in a situation where you can't reach the boss stage before a group of players of completes it because it's been scaled down for solo completion. That's...just impossible by the logic of the scenario.
No, it doesn't necessarily scale up. They could set the normal level for a full instance and only scale down from that. I don't have a whole lot of faith in Cryptic's ability to measure challenge either way. I fully expect any kind of scaling to be Easy Mode, just like 99% of everything in the game.
As for "never being a problem," so what? Scaling bosses is, in the most extreme case, guarding against the possibility that the population doesn't take to the GQ battlezone (sufficiently to populate 3am games in two years time, by Jessie's example). More broadly, it's balancing the zone with active participants so it stays within the limits of fun. Ie. it doesn't take too long with too few people or flash by with too many.
This is not just to aid soloing. That's merely the furthest established point of scaling down.
"Balancing" things to fit the players is not my idea of fun. What's the point of having a multiplayer zone if you can do it alone just as easy? Things should go faster with more people. That's the whole point of cooperation.
The voth BZ's solution to low-pop situations, of giving players side-quests they can do and gain meaningful rewards without completing the map, is better.
And I do have to again note that if/when "the population doesn't take" to content, that's because the rewards are always same-old-same-old, subject to the time/effort math which they always lose to the old standbys. If they had properly set up, unique rewards, there would be no question players would want to play everything.
What are the odds that this new battlezone will be delivered without enough bugs to make the zone unplayable.
Cryptic/PWE really needs to get it's act together squashing bugs. You don't draw new people in and keep them with buggy content. Eventually if the whole game is a buggy mess there won't be a game left to play or pay for space barbies that don't work.
It does, confirmed on Ten Forward Weekly. Also, basic logic. Scaling is two way movement, a response variable changes based on movement of an input along a two dimensional axis. It doesn't just go one way.
"Balancing" things to fit the players is not my idea of fun. What's the point of having a multiplayer zone if you can do it alone just as easy? Things should go faster with more people. That's the whole point of cooperation.
So you can participate with the final boss encounter without having to worry about a horde of players wiping it out before you have the chance to get a shot in (and just as well not be road-blocked in cases where that doesn't happen.) But what's the consistent application of your own logic?
You're patently fishing for something to complain about at this point, not really something I'm going to bother with beyond this.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Back before blizz killed off their pvp system in order to award afkers AV was a map where you could be in the same tug of war all day and the side activities actually mattered as they provided things like the shredder, mounted & air support and the elementals. The actual progress could be stalemated for long periods of time but then there'd be a surge when folk got coordinated and unleashed as many of the extras that they could at once.
I more or less gave up on pvp in that game not long after the change because what was a fun if mindless thing devolved into a silly pve boss rush.
Cryptic have introduced the stalemate side into their BZ's thanks to bad design choices but they don't seem to have the vision to think that by having side things to do (not doffing/admiralty but actual gameplay) people might be happier to engage with the BZ's.
I'm not suggesting cryptic add pvp into the BZ's as to me they killed that off the instant they gave in to the moany feds who couldn't cope with a few cloaked ships and no doubt trying to add pvp in would be a complete disaster since as everyone knows #cryptichatesklingons
It does, confirmed on Ten Forward Weekly. Also, basic logic. Scaling is two way movement, a response variable changes based on movement of an input along a two dimensional axis. It doesn't just go one way.
Congratulations on ignoring everything I actually said.
"Balancing" things to fit the players is not my idea of fun. What's the point of having a multiplayer zone if you can do it alone just as easy? Things should go faster with more people. That's the whole point of cooperation.
So you can participate with the final boss encounter without having to worry about a horde of players wiping it out before you have the chance to get a shot in (and just as well not be road-blocked in cases where that doesn't happen.) But what's the consistent application of your own logic?
Not answering the question. If the other players' contribution to the mission is just something to be game-mechanically negated, what's the point of having them there at all? Might as well be a single-player instance the whole thing, so you can "consistently" participate in every encounter.
In so far, if a horde of player often wipe out a boss before players can participate to the extent the mission design intends them to*, then the boss is likely too easy. On the other hand, if you don't have enough players to win a boss encounter then you should definitely lose it, not get a hand-out for showing up short.
* Which wouldn't necessarily have to mean everyone is required to "get a shot in" at the bosses, but in STO's case it does because they don't count the unlocking stage for anything. Which is why we have the hordes of bosscampers in the first place.
Boss kill rewards shouldn't be more than a quarter of the possible total.
They could also have a more meaningful rep setup so that instead of timegate farmvilling it to max off red alerts the way you had to for comp pve and lukari you have gains for actually doing stuff. Amount needed could be increased or rep gains capped per day but once the cap was hit you could still earn towards rewards like ship cosmetics or emotes. Or use a similar thing to the deferi zone where you get drops to craft stuff if they really feel the need for the tedious 20hour tasks.
The systems for making decent content are in game. Part of the main issue is that cryptic don't seem to see playable content as a way of making money prefering instead to churn out ships for folk to rerun the same old stuff in. It's more speculative but if the content is good folk might be more inclined to spend just as path of exile players will buy cosmetics to support the game that keeps getting gameplay stuff added.
Comments
I doubt it.
I do Battle Zones pretty frequently and aside from the always empty Tzenkethi zone, there are always players in them. The Undine Zone has been around forever and it still pretty populated, so is the Badlands. The only reason the Kethi zone is empty is because it is bugged and they won't/can't fix it.
As long as the new BZ isn't a buggy mess, people will play it. Especially if it offers Elite Marks for it's associated Reputation.
Better point of reference: this will be more forgiving by design that any other battlezone. It scales considerably both in required objectives and (I'm pretty sure) in the balance of specific encounters. The boss should be soloable by design if you're the only person participating. Previous zones are not directly comparable in this respect, Cryptic is taking a new approach.
I believe the answer to that is yes.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
EDIT: Well, not always, the voth BZ worked well at first, before they broke tagging. But almost always.
If the bosses scale down then they will also scale up. You will not find yourself in a situation where you can't reach the boss stage before a group of players of completes it because it's been scaled down for solo completion. That's...just impossible by the logic of the scenario.
As for "never being a problem," so what? Scaling bosses is, in the most extreme case, guarding against the possibility that the population doesn't take to the GQ battlezone (sufficiently to populate 3am games in two years time, by Jessie's example). More broadly, it's balancing the zone with active participants so it stays within the limits of fun. Ie. it doesn't take too long with too few people or flash by with too many.
This is not just to aid soloing. That's merely the furthest established point of scaling down.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Todays endeavour was kethi kills and it confirmed that the king of the hill nodes in the middle still flip from blue to red in the blink of an eye and that a single player will still be enough to cause 4 battleships to arrive en masse.
You bet! The alternative would be making all new content to be exactly like ISA and CCA but somehow I doubt that would make you happy either.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Eh? I checked the support forums (just in case the reddit thread was linked) and I saw you replied to someone telling you that the devs have acknowledged the Voth BZ's issues. You know they're looking into it.
Anyway, ground stuff would be cool and if the devs do more sector battlezones in future (they won't commit prior to release) it's a definite possibility that they'll vary the format in other ways (have to do something new each time). Ground's an easy way to go. That or potentially add on scenarios to the current zone, the design appears fairly modular.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
"Balancing" things to fit the players is not my idea of fun. What's the point of having a multiplayer zone if you can do it alone just as easy? Things should go faster with more people. That's the whole point of cooperation.
The voth BZ's solution to low-pop situations, of giving players side-quests they can do and gain meaningful rewards without completing the map, is better.
And I do have to again note that if/when "the population doesn't take" to content, that's because the rewards are always same-old-same-old, subject to the time/effort math which they always lose to the old standbys. If they had properly set up, unique rewards, there would be no question players would want to play everything.
Cryptic/PWE really needs to get it's act together squashing bugs. You don't draw new people in and keep them with buggy content. Eventually if the whole game is a buggy mess there won't be a game left to play or pay for space barbies that don't work.
It does, confirmed on Ten Forward Weekly. Also, basic logic. Scaling is two way movement, a response variable changes based on movement of an input along a two dimensional axis. It doesn't just go one way.
So you can participate with the final boss encounter without having to worry about a horde of players wiping it out before you have the chance to get a shot in (and just as well not be road-blocked in cases where that doesn't happen.) But what's the consistent application of your own logic?
You're patently fishing for something to complain about at this point, not really something I'm going to bother with beyond this.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I more or less gave up on pvp in that game not long after the change because what was a fun if mindless thing devolved into a silly pve boss rush.
Cryptic have introduced the stalemate side into their BZ's thanks to bad design choices but they don't seem to have the vision to think that by having side things to do (not doffing/admiralty but actual gameplay) people might be happier to engage with the BZ's.
I'm not suggesting cryptic add pvp into the BZ's as to me they killed that off the instant they gave in to the moany feds who couldn't cope with a few cloaked ships and no doubt trying to add pvp in would be a complete disaster since as everyone knows #cryptichatesklingons
Not answering the question. If the other players' contribution to the mission is just something to be game-mechanically negated, what's the point of having them there at all? Might as well be a single-player instance the whole thing, so you can "consistently" participate in every encounter.
In so far, if a horde of player often wipe out a boss before players can participate to the extent the mission design intends them to*, then the boss is likely too easy. On the other hand, if you don't have enough players to win a boss encounter then you should definitely lose it, not get a hand-out for showing up short.
* Which wouldn't necessarily have to mean everyone is required to "get a shot in" at the bosses, but in STO's case it does because they don't count the unlocking stage for anything. Which is why we have the hordes of bosscampers in the first place.
They could also have a more meaningful rep setup so that instead of timegate farmvilling it to max off red alerts the way you had to for comp pve and lukari you have gains for actually doing stuff. Amount needed could be increased or rep gains capped per day but once the cap was hit you could still earn towards rewards like ship cosmetics or emotes. Or use a similar thing to the deferi zone where you get drops to craft stuff if they really feel the need for the tedious 20hour tasks.
The systems for making decent content are in game. Part of the main issue is that cryptic don't seem to see playable content as a way of making money prefering instead to churn out ships for folk to rerun the same old stuff in. It's more speculative but if the content is good folk might be more inclined to spend just as path of exile players will buy cosmetics to support the game that keeps getting gameplay stuff added.
Ok, the retro arcade player in my is squeeeeing right now.