All the advice about how to survive vapers is of course only applicable if you are not already in combat with another one.
The fundamental problem is that damage and hitpoints of PvP are just so different from PvE. When an NPC oneshots a player in PvE, there is lots of complaint and the devs fix it - which is why NPC's do so relatively little damage. It would improve the situation a lot if both the damage of NPC's and the hitpoints of players were adjusted upwards.
if you're outnumbered 2 on 1 you're already in a bad position, Soph-
You don't have to be outnumbered. One vaper decloaks and attacks you and your buddy, you and your buddy do what is necessary, your counters are then on cooldown, the first vaper runs away (because speed is out of bounds, too), second vaper decloaks and scores a kill.
The nature of less-than-a-second-kills is that the attacker is always at a severe advantage. Shoot first, or you're dead. How very not Trek.
And before you mention the Zahl trait: That one has a cooldown, too.
[...]vapers aren't the hyoohge boogeymen [...]
They are a proof of concept. The concept being: STO has serious balance issues that could EASILY be solved in the way proposed. And yes, the other things you mention are just as bad, and some worse, of course.
Isn't your suggesting to just increase ship hull and stuff. That would be disaster. I get that you don't pvp often... but dude real PvP matches already take over an hour because no one dies. It takes multiple nukes, and such perfect timing that almost all the games long time players have quit. Your suggesting of making every terrible player even more tanky would make PvP basically unplayable. For a game to work someone has to win at some point.
Ah, so you rely on terrible players exploding in order to make the game fun for you?
Don't be so afraid of the respawn.
Yawn.
You miss the point giving everyone more hull so the bad players don't die instantly... means the good players will never die. As it is all the help me obiwan pve insta save consoles have helped reduce the PvP community down to almost nothing. Good players are already zombies unless you are attacking them with a very well timed 5 man unit. Your suggestion would make high end PvP impossible. The only people that would still die would be the worst players. Which I am sure would be so much more fun for them.
Guys let's keep this civil otherwise I will be breaking out the mod sword. This is the heads up warning. Civil debate is permitted and passion about one's opinions are fine but attacking other members is not.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Interesting, naming and shaming in addition to 'twilight proscriptions'. Some progress.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There is no way to balance this game at this point. Maybe in Star Trek Online 2 it can get balanced, but there is such a steep learning curve in STO that "new players" will never be able to keep up with someone who knows the game in any PVP or PVE scenario until they learn how to play and use quality gear. No way around that anymore.
There are some things that can be ballanced for PVP, but IMO right now its not terrible. You don't have to be an "Elite" player to kill someone in Ker'rat right now. Yes, there are players running around with excellent tank builds, but even they are being defeated with combined attacks.
As for the "Money" vs. "time" issue to put together a good PVP build, I personally haven't spent much on the game in the last 3 years or so ever since Admiralty was launched. I generate enough Dilithium in game with Admiralty and DOFF missions that I maybe once or twice a year spend a few bucks on the game, but outside of that I don't and I have lots and lots of lockbox ships, items and other expensive goods without spending insane time on the game or real money. Just like the current state of PVP, you have to know what you are doing to take advantage of the system.
As for Ker'rat, there is only one rule in Ker'rat... There are no rules!
I almost went in to Ker'rat last night with my Romulan and scimy. I talked myself out of it half way down the quadrant after remembering how either side usually has a mob squad at the spawn in point and didn't want to get stuck in there blowing up constantly after zoning in. That and remembering this thread after wondering why I was thinking of Ker'rat in the first place.
Right now, we have players pushing 400+ points on specific skills; I would argue the Sci abilities specifically. Yes, this makes them specific builds, where they would have weakness in other areas. However, there are enough traits to provide invincibility to specific builds that they are much more deadlier than before.
As for what others have said, PvP is broken to the point that only STO 2.0 might have a chance a balancing the game. It is a bit sad though.
PvP takes money, so if you don't have it, stick with PvE and play Space Barbie.
Comments
You miss the point giving everyone more hull so the bad players don't die instantly... means the good players will never die. As it is all the help me obiwan pve insta save consoles have helped reduce the PvP community down to almost nothing. Good players are already zombies unless you are attacking them with a very well timed 5 man unit. Your suggestion would make high end PvP impossible. The only people that would still die would be the worst players. Which I am sure would be so much more fun for them.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There are some things that can be ballanced for PVP, but IMO right now its not terrible. You don't have to be an "Elite" player to kill someone in Ker'rat right now. Yes, there are players running around with excellent tank builds, but even they are being defeated with combined attacks.
As for the "Money" vs. "time" issue to put together a good PVP build, I personally haven't spent much on the game in the last 3 years or so ever since Admiralty was launched. I generate enough Dilithium in game with Admiralty and DOFF missions that I maybe once or twice a year spend a few bucks on the game, but outside of that I don't and I have lots and lots of lockbox ships, items and other expensive goods without spending insane time on the game or real money. Just like the current state of PVP, you have to know what you are doing to take advantage of the system.
As for Ker'rat, there is only one rule in Ker'rat... There are no rules!
As for what others have said, PvP is broken to the point that only STO 2.0 might have a chance a balancing the game. It is a bit sad though.
PvP takes money, so if you don't have it, stick with PvE and play Space Barbie.