@bossheisenberg
Would be nice to have the option at least, I've always thought a "free for all" mode would be a welcome edition.
Though, I'll admit, even if they added it to game, it would not pull me back into the STO pvp world.
It's such an obvious thing to have, I just can't grasp why it's not in the game. I am not even pushing for a pvp revamp, I just want a functional map that could be configured in different ways other than Team 1 fights Team 2. It's almost 2018, it's not like we're dealing with 1985 technology.
I've said this many times, and I'll say it again. The entry level is absurdly high (thanks to Delta Rising), and the majority of slack-jawed casuals (TM) aren't willing to grind/pay/learn it.
SWTOR's superior, and healthy PvP model is entirely different. You can have vibrant PvP at early, as well as at advanced levels. The scaling system is intelligent in that it gives you sufficient boost to stand a chance, without nullifying the necessity of gear. The PvP gear in the game is also not that difficult to obtain. There is a level of grind as with any MMO, but nowhere near that of STO.
Not decision ever made by a Cryptic developer has had anything at all to do with PvP. EVER.
Soooo..... they've never "balanced" some game mechanic in a way that changed it's PvE performance (like, say, Sci), because of issues with PvP?
Really?
(realistically, even a decision made by the devs to reduce support for PvP, would be a "decision made by a Cryptic dev that had something to do with PvP.")
No they have not.
I challenge you to come up with a specific example and I'll explain how PvE DPS clubs are responsible for said nerf not pvp.
Cryptic has never ever done anything with PVP in mind including nerfs.
Blame 30s infected speed runs... don't blame the games 10 PvP players. lmao
This game hasn't had serious PvP since STO year one.
It would be better to remove pvp entirely or else stop supporting it, to improve the overall quality of the game.
Nothing has done more damage to the game than the vandalism from trying to chase the dragon of pvp.
lmao
What dmg.
Not decision ever made by a Cryptic developer has had anything at all to do with PvP. EVER.
Its to bad to the bones of this game would still make for one of the best E sport games around. Not in its current state or any PvE dragon chasing state this game has been in since launch of course could every aspire to such greatness. The bones are there though... knowing what this game could have been just makes me sad.
Still could be if Cryptic woke up....
What the game really needs is a proper qued PvP revamp... where ALL the PVE **** gear / items / traits /reps ect ect where shut off. Give players PvP ship doll... in the same way we can fly shuttles. PvP ships could be balanced without a hint of P2W or Grind to win ****... sell PvPers cosmetic skins, camo paint schemes, fancy coloured Pew Pew lazor beams ect ect. The worst part of it all is the systems are all there and I doubt it would take Cryptic all that much time to hammer out... they have a high end esport worthy game and for some reason have never been able to see the potential.
Kind of seems like you're saying the 2 things preventing STO's PvP from becoming a big time, high end "esports" showcase is that it lacks cosmetic microtransactions and that the PvE gear is just too darn good in PvP.
Is this a joke post?
How is it a joke...
look around at other MMOs with serious PvP. GW2 is a good example. Anets PvP modes remove PvE gear from PvP.
Its better for players. PvP can be balanced without having to hear BS like oh my X or Y console I paid 50 bucks for no longer one shots borg cubes.
Cryptic has nerfed plenty of gear but anyone who hasn't figured out yet that those nerfs have ALWAYS been intended to sell the newest shiny gear is delusional. Nerfs don't happen because the very small pool of PvP players asked for it... hell the PvP section in these very forums gets what 1-2 posts a month for a years now. No they happen because Cryptic needs to give people an excuse to dish out $ for the next new best thing. That doesn't work if the old best new thing is still one shotting NPCs.
However I know from experience in Many PvP games over the years if there is one group who are huge suckers for cosmetic and non-game play effecting sales... its PvP players. They are second only to RP players when it comes to spending actual $ on cosmetics.
I mention the cosmetic sales for one and only one reason. Cryptic has never done anything with PvP in this game as its clear they don't see it as a profitable expenditure of their time. I think that is very short sighted and completely wrong. Years back I could understand them not wanting to spent lots of time recoding PvP from the ground up... but now they have built the systems for other parts of the game. Shuttle missions are proof their system allows for alternate ships with alternate skill mods ect. One of the devs was on record a few years back that he had the ability to disable rep/ship traits and pretty much anything else he wanted per map.
Yes remove all the PvE gear from PvP and PvP becomes 1000% better. As a bonus no one can ever claim their PvE super tribble gun got nerfed cause PvP is evil.
It would be better to remove pvp entirely or else stop supporting it, to improve the overall quality of the game.
Nothing has done more damage to the game than the vandalism from trying to chase the dragon of pvp.
lmao
What dmg.
Not decision ever made by a Cryptic developer has had anything at all to do with PvP. EVER.
Its to bad to the bones of this game would still make for one of the best E sport games around. Not in its current state or any PvE dragon chasing state this game has been in since launch of course could every aspire to such greatness. The bones are there though... knowing what this game could have been just makes me sad.
Still could be if Cryptic woke up....
What the game really needs is a proper qued PvP revamp... where ALL the PVE **** gear / items / traits /reps ect ect where shut off. Give players PvP ship doll... in the same way we can fly shuttles. PvP ships could be balanced without a hint of P2W or Grind to win ****... sell PvPers cosmetic skins, camo paint schemes, fancy coloured Pew Pew lazor beams ect ect. The worst part of it all is the systems are all there and I doubt it would take Cryptic all that much time to hammer out... they have a high end esport worthy game and for some reason have never been able to see the potential.
Not decision ever made by a Cryptic developer has had anything at all to do with PvP. EVER.
Soooo..... they've never "balanced" some game mechanic in a way that changed it's PvE performance (like, say, Sci), because of issues with PvP?
Really?
(realistically, even a decision made by the devs to reduce support for PvP, would be a "decision made by a Cryptic dev that had something to do with PvP.")
in the very early days Sci won EVERY PVP battle. Tykins, Viral Matrix and Grav well shut the escorts and crusiers down while the sci guys waltzed over and pounded them. hen they swung a stadiums worth of nerf bats at sci and it's never been even a pale shadow of what it was
and now... sci still wins far more often than the other two in PvP (When it happens!) and the top most powerful and effective ships in Ker'rat are still science ships.
those changes were made due to PVE, not PvP.
...shhh... you want them to bring down the nerf hammer again which TRIBBLE up my builds?
Well I can think of a couple things that got nerfed for PVP.
Trait: Load Viral Torpedo;
Exploited profusely at the outset of DR to disable player ships for 10-20 secs at a time. Caused a huge outrage at the time of release in the PVP community.
Neutronic Torp Radiation;
Okay this was maybe more PVE motivated - but it certainly was having significant impact in PvP against disabled player ships-see Load Viral Matrix
Ionic Turbulance: Pretty sure the PvE community immediately blamed PvP'ers for getting this nerfed. And theres threads to prove it.
Changed the targeting trajectory route from follow target until impact to Impact where originally aimed. The PvE community went absolutely ApeShit after this one, blaming the PvP community.
This ability was also part of the complaint with Viral Torp/Neutronic radiation and Ionic turbulence deadly combination versus a player.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strikes
Pretty sure the PvP community also played a role in getting this one nerfed. Was way too potent of an ability against player characters at the time of release.
I'm probably a little off base on some of these. Actually, I'm not even sure Viral Torp got nerfed, but I think they did increased the time between possible disables ... So feel free to correct me if you feel otherwise.
Not decision ever made by a Cryptic developer has had anything at all to do with PvP. EVER.
Soooo..... they've never "balanced" some game mechanic in a way that changed it's PvE performance (like, say, Sci), because of issues with PvP?
Really?
(realistically, even a decision made by the devs to reduce support for PvP, would be a "decision made by a Cryptic dev that had something to do with PvP.")
in the very early days Sci won EVERY PVP battle. Tykins, Viral Matrix and Grav well shut the escorts and crusiers down while the sci guys waltzed over and pounded them. hen they swung a stadiums worth of nerf bats at sci and it's never been even a pale shadow of what it was
and now... sci still wins far more often than the other two in PvP (When it happens!) and the top most powerful and effective ships in Ker'rat are still science ships.
those changes were made due to PVE, not PvP.
I agree, I think tac is the weakest of the 3 at the moment. Eng/tanking is now absurdly powerful as well, I've seen tanks that literally could not be killed, and that was before miracle worker/s. 14. Seems like tac hasn't had anything good since kemocite which was already like 3 years ago.
look around at other MMOs with serious PvP. GW2 is a good example. Anets PvP modes remove PvE gear from PvP.
That's not real PvP that's baby PvP. That's throwing most of the game out the window to pretend it's PvP. To paraphrase Sun-Tzu, "To go into a fight unprepared is to go into a fight you can't win."
look around at other MMOs with serious PvP. GW2 is a good example. Anets PvP modes remove PvE gear from PvP.
That's not real PvP that's baby PvP. That's throwing most of the game out the window to pretend it's PvP. To paraphrase Sun-Tzu, "To go into a fight unprepared is to go into a fight you can't win."
That is how you get actual real PvP. Not WvW (wallet vs wallet).
You want to know if your a better player then me, a better grinder, or a bigger whale ?
Unbalanced PvE gear gated PvP is not Player vs Player at all.
The biggest drag on the quality of STO is pvp and the vandalism to abilities associated with chasing the pvp dragon.
It must be removed to improve the overall quality of the game, as they have done before with far substandard content.
You keep making silly statements... did some pvp player in sto really get to you or are you an eve refugee or something. Dude it sounds like a form of PTSD. What do you care what others do in the game if they aren't forcing you to join. lol
Also stop it... as Patrick stated EVERY single nerf some of you blame on PvP has nothing at all to do with PvP, and everything to do with high DPS PvE runs.
As he said Viral torp... nerfed because it turned capital ships into putty. It broke their space pve zones when "planet" killers" went insta pop... not to mention devs being linked 30s infected run youtubes.
The way to KNOW without a doubt that that is true.... is again as Patrick pointed out PvP players where FAR more vocal and hateful of Ionic. But it didn't get a nerf until Cryptic both added a PvE Que where the NPCs used it on PvE players (who screamed about it)... and again the DPS guys figured out how to use it to debuff tac cubes and gates so hard they again where insta sploding.
There is no PvP Dragon chase in STO. The devs balance for PvE and the next sale... always have and it seems always will.
look around at other MMOs with serious PvP. GW2 is a good example. Anets PvP modes remove PvE gear from PvP.
That's not real PvP that's baby PvP. That's throwing most of the game out the window to pretend it's PvP. To paraphrase Sun-Tzu, "To go into a fight unprepared is to go into a fight you can't win."
That is how you get actual real PvP. Not WvW (wallet vs wallet).
You want to know if your a better player then me, a better grinder, or a bigger whale ?
Unbalanced PvE gear gated PvP is not Player vs Player at all.
Customized gear loadouts are too hard for you? aww...
Well I can think of a couple things that got nerfed for PVP.
Trait: Load Viral Torpedo;
Exploited profusely at the outset of DR to disable player ships for 10-20 secs at a time. Caused a huge outrage at the time of release in the PVP community.
Neutronic Torp Radiation;
Okay this was maybe more PVE motivated - but it certainly was having significant impact in PvP against disabled player ships-see Load Viral Matrix
Ionic Turbulance: Pretty sure the PvE community immediately blamed PvP'ers for getting this nerfed. And theres threads to prove it.
Changed the targeting trajectory route from follow target until impact to Impact where originally aimed. The PvE community went absolutely ApeShit after this one, blaming the PvP community.
This ability was also part of the complaint with Viral Torp/Neutronic radiation and Ionic turbulence deadly combination versus a player.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strikes
Pretty sure the PvP community also played a role in getting this one nerfed. Was way too potent of an ability against player characters at the time of release.
I'm probably a little off base on some of these. Actually, I'm not even sure Viral Torp got nerfed, but I think they did increased the time between possible disables ... So feel free to correct me if you feel otherwise.
viral torp: was nerfed because when combined with Ionic turbulence and Neutronics, was 86'ing Voth cityships and elite tac cubes pretty much instantly.
Neutronics were nerfed specifically because of their performance vs. NPCs.
Ionic was being abused against NPC 'boss' mobs in Queued mission content.
Notably, Ionics' overperformance vs. players went on for 3 months before someone in the PVE/DPS racing circuit figured out how to use it to shorten content grind. Neuts got neutered so that Kemocite could be introduced (in broken form). both cases, it took right around three months for the nerf to happen-just in time to introduce something in a paybox that was worse to do the same job.
Surgical Strikes got cut back in ordre to introduce a paybox trait that does what we used to have to time with the double-tap. (took more than six months for this to happen, and the realignment happened nearly a year after the PvP exodus caused by Delta Powercreeping).
so no, Taylor, none of those had a bleeping thing to do with PvP, other than the ease with which they were able to be abused IN PvP. which is not, and has never been (nor will ever be) a consideration for the Development Staff at Cryptic Studios..
Thanks Pat, I know you follow these things closer then I.
Ionic was being abused against NPC 'boss' mobs in Queued mission content.
How do you suppose removing ionic's target-tracking affects boss mobs when none of the boss mobs in the game move fast enough to avoid the non-tracking version anyway?
I would just like to go into a PVP battlezone. No wait times or queues. Populate it with small nebulas and places that block your line of sight for ambushes and places that render cloaking useless.
Fed/romulan vs Klingon/romulan for one battlezone and a free for all in another.
Their last foray into anything close to pvp was competetive rep and the handful of queues that came with it.
A battle royale system or map would fare no better and would be dominated by those who bought ships or have played long enough to have dumped tons of dilithium into the upgrading or gear and stacking of consoles. Or at least that'd be the case until people got bored of the single map and moved back to the same old places with better time/reward ratios.
Also consider that to make it work well you'd need 15-20 players and getting that number for anything queue related just doesn't make it viable. Even the places that need 10 to join can take an hour or two to get into. And 5 people in a battle royale would make it a total joke, although probably good weekend event for afkers.
Comments
It's such an obvious thing to have, I just can't grasp why it's not in the game. I am not even pushing for a pvp revamp, I just want a functional map that could be configured in different ways other than Team 1 fights Team 2. It's almost 2018, it's not like we're dealing with 1985 technology.
My character Tsin'xing
The whole everyone-is-on-a-team thing would need a complete overhaul to make this sort of thing work.
I've said this many times, and I'll say it again. The entry level is absurdly high (thanks to Delta Rising), and the majority of slack-jawed casuals (TM) aren't willing to grind/pay/learn it.
SWTOR's superior, and healthy PvP model is entirely different. You can have vibrant PvP at early, as well as at advanced levels. The scaling system is intelligent in that it gives you sufficient boost to stand a chance, without nullifying the necessity of gear. The PvP gear in the game is also not that difficult to obtain. There is a level of grind as with any MMO, but nowhere near that of STO.
No they have not.
I challenge you to come up with a specific example and I'll explain how PvE DPS clubs are responsible for said nerf not pvp.
Cryptic has never ever done anything with PVP in mind including nerfs.
Blame 30s infected speed runs... don't blame the games 10 PvP players. lmao
This game hasn't had serious PvP since STO year one.
How is it a joke...
look around at other MMOs with serious PvP. GW2 is a good example. Anets PvP modes remove PvE gear from PvP.
Its better for players. PvP can be balanced without having to hear BS like oh my X or Y console I paid 50 bucks for no longer one shots borg cubes.
Cryptic has nerfed plenty of gear but anyone who hasn't figured out yet that those nerfs have ALWAYS been intended to sell the newest shiny gear is delusional. Nerfs don't happen because the very small pool of PvP players asked for it... hell the PvP section in these very forums gets what 1-2 posts a month for a years now. No they happen because Cryptic needs to give people an excuse to dish out $ for the next new best thing. That doesn't work if the old best new thing is still one shotting NPCs.
However I know from experience in Many PvP games over the years if there is one group who are huge suckers for cosmetic and non-game play effecting sales... its PvP players. They are second only to RP players when it comes to spending actual $ on cosmetics.
I mention the cosmetic sales for one and only one reason. Cryptic has never done anything with PvP in this game as its clear they don't see it as a profitable expenditure of their time. I think that is very short sighted and completely wrong. Years back I could understand them not wanting to spent lots of time recoding PvP from the ground up... but now they have built the systems for other parts of the game. Shuttle missions are proof their system allows for alternate ships with alternate skill mods ect. One of the devs was on record a few years back that he had the ability to disable rep/ship traits and pretty much anything else he wanted per map.
Yes remove all the PvE gear from PvP and PvP becomes 1000% better. As a bonus no one can ever claim their PvE super tribble gun got nerfed cause PvP is evil.
Ok I'll bite I guess. How so ?
in the very early days Sci won EVERY PVP battle. Tykins, Viral Matrix and Grav well shut the escorts and crusiers down while the sci guys waltzed over and pounded them. hen they swung a stadiums worth of nerf bats at sci and it's never been even a pale shadow of what it was
...shhh... you want them to bring down the nerf hammer again which TRIBBLE up my builds?
Trait: Load Viral Torpedo;
Exploited profusely at the outset of DR to disable player ships for 10-20 secs at a time. Caused a huge outrage at the time of release in the PVP community.
Neutronic Torp Radiation;
Okay this was maybe more PVE motivated - but it certainly was having significant impact in PvP against disabled player ships-see Load Viral Matrix
Ionic Turbulance: Pretty sure the PvE community immediately blamed PvP'ers for getting this nerfed. And theres threads to prove it.
Changed the targeting trajectory route from follow target until impact to Impact where originally aimed. The PvE community went absolutely ApeShit after this one, blaming the PvP community.
This ability was also part of the complaint with Viral Torp/Neutronic radiation and Ionic turbulence deadly combination versus a player.
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strikes
Pretty sure the PvP community also played a role in getting this one nerfed. Was way too potent of an ability against player characters at the time of release.
I'm probably a little off base on some of these. Actually, I'm not even sure Viral Torp got nerfed, but I think they did increased the time between possible disables ... So feel free to correct me if you feel otherwise.
I agree, I think tac is the weakest of the 3 at the moment. Eng/tanking is now absurdly powerful as well, I've seen tanks that literally could not be killed, and that was before miracle worker/s. 14. Seems like tac hasn't had anything good since kemocite which was already like 3 years ago.
My character Tsin'xing
That is how you get actual real PvP. Not WvW (wallet vs wallet).
You want to know if your a better player then me, a better grinder, or a bigger whale ?
Unbalanced PvE gear gated PvP is not Player vs Player at all.
You keep making silly statements... did some pvp player in sto really get to you or are you an eve refugee or something. Dude it sounds like a form of PTSD. What do you care what others do in the game if they aren't forcing you to join. lol
Also stop it... as Patrick stated EVERY single nerf some of you blame on PvP has nothing at all to do with PvP, and everything to do with high DPS PvE runs.
As he said Viral torp... nerfed because it turned capital ships into putty. It broke their space pve zones when "planet" killers" went insta pop... not to mention devs being linked 30s infected run youtubes.
The way to KNOW without a doubt that that is true.... is again as Patrick pointed out PvP players where FAR more vocal and hateful of Ionic. But it didn't get a nerf until Cryptic both added a PvE Que where the NPCs used it on PvE players (who screamed about it)... and again the DPS guys figured out how to use it to debuff tac cubes and gates so hard they again where insta sploding.
There is no PvP Dragon chase in STO. The devs balance for PvE and the next sale... always have and it seems always will.
My character Tsin'xing
Thanks Pat, I know you follow these things closer then I.
Fed/romulan vs Klingon/romulan for one battlezone and a free for all in another.
> So kerrat?
Not really. Just a place with no objective other than to PVP. There doesn’t even have to be any sort of reward either.
A battle royale system or map would fare no better and would be dominated by those who bought ships or have played long enough to have dumped tons of dilithium into the upgrading or gear and stacking of consoles. Or at least that'd be the case until people got bored of the single map and moved back to the same old places with better time/reward ratios.
Also consider that to make it work well you'd need 15-20 players and getting that number for anything queue related just doesn't make it viable. Even the places that need 10 to join can take an hour or two to get into. And 5 people in a battle royale would make it a total joke, although probably good weekend event for afkers.