So that 750,000,000 dollar ship I could never afford in my wildest dreams is now an even wilder dream? Uh... great?
I don't see why such a change was even necessary, when it will never come close to affecting 99% of the playerbase, and possibly only serve to inflate prices. The people setting prices that high don't even buy off the exchange. So I guess it won't even affect them, either, since no one is going to buy their overpriced lobi ships one way or another. It literally affects probably about 20 people, worldwide, if even that.
So, more importantly, when will you make it easier to make lots of EC through actual gameplay, instead of through doing paperwork? Or more importantly than that, when will you make all starship traits, lobi ships and event items and so on account unlocks, to encourage more alt play, since it's so expensive to complete even a single build on one character? I find this more interesting, since that's also an archaic system that affects everyone, not just the 0.1%
What ship was 750m?
on the xbox its the jem hadar attack ship the one that comes with the defence screen console...as it was limited edition to get i.e 1st month sto was online for consoles.. not alot of players managed to get it i personally did not start playing on console until febuary so about 5 months late and i missed out on the xmas event ship aswell..
methinks what y'all are forgetting is that the temporal light cruiser(constitution class) still hasn't shown up on the exchange, my guess is that the price on that just doubled........
Actually there were several on the exchange at 1.5 billion. All of which sold. This is below the previous high water mark price of 1.8 to 2 billion.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves.
So far we've seen Enterprise-J prices DROP from 1.5 billion to 1.2 billion thanks to the new currency limits. We've also seen Amarie prices DROP from 1.3 billion to under a billion EC.
I hope that this is a lesson for you guys that higher limits DO NOT make prices go up. They ENCOURAGE COMPETITION and help to lower prices.
Now the tricky part of ensuring that those prices don't eventually go back up high enough that this improvement is all undone. How would you propose to handle that?
I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves.
So far we've seen Enterprise-J prices DROP from 1.5 billion to 1.2 billion thanks to the new currency limits. We've also seen Amarie prices DROP from 1.3 billion to under a billion EC.
I hope that this is a lesson for you guys that higher limits DO NOT make prices go up. They ENCOURAGE COMPETITION and help to lower prices.
Now the tricky part of ensuring that those prices don't eventually go back up high enough that this improvement is all undone. How would you propose to handle that?
Prices will continue to rise as they have over the years due to real inflation. Inflation which is caused by EC farming from selling to vendors, admiralty etc. Why would I propose to "handle" that? That's a problem (if you think it's a problem) for the devs.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
As one of the well-to-do in STO, I approve of these changes and believe they are a positive step forward in the economy of STO. A rising tide lifts all boats.
No, a rising tide just lifts EC prices. Wait for it.
Those EC prices don't mean anything if nobody is willing to pay them. The market isn't baked in. It's constantly fluctuating by supply and demand. Listed prices do not and never have meant selling prices. I can put up 40 stacks of Engine Batteries at 1 billion each and that doesn't mean that the prices for Engine Batteries has spiked. It doesn't mean that Engine Batteries are suddenly overpriced because the exchange cap is raised.
It just means that I'm an idiot who decided to be cute and list 40 stacks of Engine Batteries for 1 billion EC each instead of things that people will pay a fair price for.
It's never that simple, really. If you have like 5 Vonph ships, for instance, all listed at prices > 200 mil, then, sure, ppl can always decline to buy them. But then they have nothing. So, you can either continue to have nothing, or eventually, grudingly get the least expensive of those listed ships.
The STO Economy is never truly 'supply & demand' (despite what the tycoons would have us believe), because it's too easy to corner the market on certain items. You really think the Delta Prime Trait is worth over 300 million EC?! Or Kemocite going for hundreds of millions when it first came out?! See, unlike a RL economy, where you can just shop elsewhere, when you don't like the high prices in one store, the STO economy is basically just a single store, where a handful of super rich folks just keep buying up the good stuff, and flipping them with outrageous profit margins.
Naturally, people can always still say no. But let's not pretend Exchange prices aren't massively, artificially cranked up for certain items.
I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves.
So far we've seen Enterprise-J prices DROP from 1.5 billion to 1.2 billion thanks to the new currency limits. We've also seen Amarie prices DROP from 1.3 billion to under a billion EC.
I hope that this is a lesson for you guys that higher limits DO NOT make prices go up. They ENCOURAGE COMPETITION and help to lower prices.
Now the tricky part of ensuring that those prices don't eventually go back up high enough that this improvement is all undone. How would you propose to handle that?
Prices will continue to rise as they have over the years due to real inflation. Inflation which is caused by EC farming from selling to vendors, admiralty etc. Why would I propose to "handle" that? That's a problem (if you think it's a problem) for the devs.
How is it not a problem? Sure, it's up to the devs to actually put a solution in place, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Eventually, we're just going to get back to where we were before the cap increase, with the attendant issues of private trades. Mostly, I'd like to hear ideas about how we can avoid that.
I've managed to get 3 promo ships and an ultra-rare ship prior to the infinity box over the years. They've all been opened for personal use because it was too much of a pain to offload them, and then they sit in the shipyard as showpieces once I have the trait. Then, when something like the d7 comes along that I do want to try and buy, it's confined to the grey market. Thus, the situation that we had (and, I would contend, will have again) is bad from both ends. Sellers have trouble pricing their wares and have to spend a lot of time and effort finding a buyer once they settle on a price. Buyers have no idea what something is going for or whether they're getting gouged, and can't buy something they want.
Maybe I'm pessimistic, and I'll at least wait and see what happens to prices for a wider range of promo ships when the next r&d infinity promo comes around. Maybe that d7 goes down to 1.4b at the height of supply. But I'd like to have it out in the open between promos.
How is it not a problem? Sure, it's up to the devs to actually put a solution in place, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Eventually, we're just going to get back to where we were before the cap increase, with the attendant issues of private trades. Mostly, I'd like to hear ideas about how we can avoid that.
It isn't a problem because Cryptic has shown a willingness to make changes when they are needed. If an actual problem arises, surely they will do their best to fix it as they have shown here.
Maybe I'm pessimistic, and I'll at least wait and see what happens to prices for a wider range of promo ships when the next r&d infinity promo comes around. Maybe that d7 goes down to 1.4b at the height of supply. But I'd like to have it out in the open between promos.
I would like to have transparent prices as well which is why I support a higher exchange limit than we have even now. 5 billion per character. 5 billion per bank. 4.5 billion exchange limit I say.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I don't see this helping prices, just making everything more expensive.
Cryptic need to find a way of stopping prices of items going above the exchange limit.
The answer to that is simple.
Do not allow trades. Players would still be able give items to other players, but without a trade window pop up; it would be a direct transaction. For example, you offer a Lobi Ship to Player X who accepts it and it go directly into his / her inventory. That's the end of the transaction. If you are expecting Player X to give you something in return, then you would need to trust Player X enough before doing so.
Players who are expecting to earn EC from the sale / trade of the Lobi Ship in the above example would be forced to use the Exchange and be subject to the price limit of the Exchange.
Encouraging scamming or empowering scammers is a bad thing.
It's hard to overstate how anti-social of a post that is.
The post is not about the encouragement of scamming. Instead, it is about players' trust and using the Exchange instead of private trades as a means to address the poster's concern about prices for items going over the Exchange's price limit.
If trading between players are not allowed (no trade window to act as a clearing house so that both players can see what is being offered before accepting the trade), then players would instead rely on the Exchange as a means to sell their items. Otherwise, players would need to have blind trust that if they give an item valued at over 1.5B EC, they will get something of equal value in return. That is why I ended with the statement that not allowing trades will force players to use the Exchange.
Eliminating trades means there is an absolute price cap on items by way of the max price limit set by the Exchange. With a price cap of 1.5B EC, a person with a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser have two choices:
#1 - Sell the ship on the Exchange for 1.5B EC (or less) and be done with it.
#2 - Keep the ship because there is no reliable way to get more than 1.5B EC for the ship.
I don't see this helping prices, just making everything more expensive.
Cryptic need to find a way of stopping prices of items going above the exchange limit.
The answer to that is simple.
Do not allow trades. Players would still be able give items to other players, but without a trade window pop up; it would be a direct transaction. For example, you offer a Lobi Ship to Player X who accepts it and it go directly into his / her inventory. That's the end of the transaction. If you are expecting Player X to give you something in return, then you would need to trust Player X enough before doing so.
Players who are expecting to earn EC from the sale / trade of the Lobi Ship in the above example would be forced to use the Exchange and be subject to the price limit of the Exchange.
Encouraging scamming or empowering scammers is a bad thing.
It's hard to overstate how anti-social of a post that is.
The post is not about the encouragement of scamming. Instead, it is about players' trust and using the Exchange instead of private trades as a means to address the poster's concern about prices for items going over the Exchange's price limit.
If trading between players are not allowed (no trade window to act as a clearing house so that both players can see what is being offered before accepting the trade), then players would instead rely on the Exchange as a means to sell their items. Otherwise, players would need to have blind trust that if they give an item valued at over 1.5B EC, they will get something of equal value in return. That is why I ended with the statement that not allowing trades will force players to use the Exchange.
Eliminating trades means there is an absolute price cap on items by way of the max price limit set by the Exchange. With a price cap of 1.5B EC, a person with a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser have two choices:
#1 - Sell the ship on the Exchange for 1.5B EC (or less) and be done with it.
#2 - Keep the ship because there is no reliable way to get more than 1.5B EC for the ship.
I always have that fear that repetitiveepic mentions about being scammed, but I also believe in caveat emptor & trying to my research prior. Usually though since I cannot afford such big ticket items in those price ranges I don't have to be concerned about it.
jaguarskx's concept of using the Exchange as the only means of transferring items between players intrigues me, however; i think maybe impossible & definitely unfair to implement now since the STO community has already grown around the current set-up. I like that it would make pricing a finite spectrum range, but then again there would be sly ways around that set-up too. For example I'm selling one of those special Promotion! ships for 2 billion yet the energy credit cap is 1.5 billion. Well no exchanging or mailing between other players so has to be done via the Exchange. Sell the ultra cool ship for 1.5 billion then using trust from the seller or buyer sell a battery or some other immaterial item for 500 million to make-up the difference. It would have to be decided between the seller & buyer which transaction was first but either way would require an amount of trust & it would bypass this hard-cap. Perfect hell no, but it's an alternative.
Again, I don't endorse this type of plan now because it's not what STO has grown upon using, but if done from an origin I could see something similar being able to keep things in check. I still hope prices go down because of this, but in the long run I think this could cause prices to increase faster. Why? Because any time there's a limit set, like this new energy credit ceiling, people want to reach it.
I don't see this helping prices, just making everything more expensive.
Cryptic need to find a way of stopping prices of items going above the exchange limit.
The answer to that is simple.
Do not allow trades. Players would still be able give items to other players, but without a trade window pop up; it would be a direct transaction. For example, you offer a Lobi Ship to Player X who accepts it and it go directly into his / her inventory. That's the end of the transaction. If you are expecting Player X to give you something in return, then you would need to trust Player X enough before doing so.
Players who are expecting to earn EC from the sale / trade of the Lobi Ship in the above example would be forced to use the Exchange and be subject to the price limit of the Exchange.
Encouraging scamming or empowering scammers is a bad thing.
It's hard to overstate how anti-social of a post that is.
The post is not about the encouragement of scamming. Instead, it is about players' trust and using the Exchange instead of private trades as a means to address the poster's concern about prices for items going over the Exchange's price limit.
If trading between players are not allowed (no trade window to act as a clearing house so that both players can see what is being offered before accepting the trade), then players would instead rely on the Exchange as a means to sell their items. Otherwise, players would need to have blind trust that if they give an item valued at over 1.5B EC, they will get something of equal value in return. That is why I ended with the statement that not allowing trades will force players to use the Exchange.
Eliminating trades means there is an absolute price cap on items by way of the max price limit set by the Exchange. With a price cap of 1.5B EC, a person with a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser have two choices:
#1 - Sell the ship on the Exchange for 1.5B EC (or less) and be done with it.
#2 - Keep the ship because there is no reliable way to get more than 1.5B EC for the ship.
I cannot begin to tell you all the ways that eliminating trade is a bad idea.
The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate.
Another issue comes with people who might something else other than EC due to either the desire for a specific item or the inability to hold such wealth in their accounts. For example, if I had a T6 and was looking to obtain a couple of ships as a trade, I would have to sell the Connie on the exchange and then hope that I could find the ships I was looking for and buy them from the exchange. If the exchange didn't have them, then I'm out of luck.
The issue is exacerbated by the EC Cap Limits on accounts. If I did this and already had 900m in my account, it would be adding 1.5b to that for a total of 2.4b EC, which is 400m more than the existing cap limit of 2b. For me, it wouldn't be an issue as I'd just move the existing EC to my account bank, but if a person doesn't have an account bank or it's full, you wind up having to lose 400m in profit because the bank WILL NOT GO OVER 2B EC. That 400m EC will just evaporate into thin air.
All this is mitigated by the trade. If I can do a direct trade to get what I want, then awesome. It saves me a lot of headaches running between the bank and the exchange as well as the headaches of potential EC loss and not finding what I want.
So given the potential pitfalls of a strictly exchange sale, why is trading a bad thing? Hint: It's not.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I cannot begin to tell you all the ways that eliminating trade is a bad idea.
I just want to point out that the simple solution I stated to address the poster's concern about items going for more than what the Exchange price cap is. Not that it is a perfect solution; in fact, there is no perfect solution, and I am not actually proposing that private trades should actually be eliminated from the game.
The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate.
That actually does not make perfect sense. If the Exchange was the only place to sell (trade EC for it) the T6 TLC, then prices would actually go down. All of the supply of T6 TLC "boxes" that people do not want to keep for themselves will then be listed on the Exchange. Typically as supply increases, prices decreases. That means while there would be people listing the T6 TLC for 1.5B EC others will likely be offering the ship for less so that the ship sells more quickly.
Additionally, how would the price go up if there are no T6 TLCs being sold on the Exchange? Are you implying that players are actually engaging in private trades of that ship for less than 1.5B EC?
Another issue comes with people who might something else other than EC due to either the desire for a specific item or the inability to hold such wealth in their accounts. For example, if I had a T6 and was looking to obtain a couple of ships as a trade, I would have to sell the Connie on the exchange and then hope that I could find the ships I was looking for and buy them from the exchange. If the exchange didn't have them, then I'm out of luck.
Well, if private trades were to be eliminated from the game then players with boxed ships that they do not not want to keep for themselves would be list it on the Exchange. Otherwise, it would just sit in their inventory. It is possible that can happen because I recall a post from one player last year who stated that if the price of T6 TLCs were to "crash" he would rather hold on to them or delete them outright rather than sell those ships for below what he thinks is a "fair price".
The issue is exacerbated by the EC Cap Limits on accounts. If I did this and already had 900m in my account, it would be adding 1.5b to that for a total of 2.4b EC, which is 400m more than the existing cap limit of 2b. For me, it wouldn't be an issue as I'd just move the existing EC to my account bank, but if a person doesn't have an account bank or it's full, you wind up having to lose 400m in profit because the bank WILL NOT GO OVER 2B EC. That 400m EC will just evaporate into thin air.
As for people with too much wealth there is already a solution for that. It is not eloquent, but it is a solution that have already been practiced. That is to have multiple alts to transfer the wealth to.
All this is mitigated by the trade. If I can do a direct trade to get what I want, then awesome. It saves me a lot of headaches running between the bank and the exchange as well as the headaches of potential EC loss and not finding what I want.
So given the potential pitfalls of a strictly exchange sale, why is trading a bad thing? Hint: It's not.
Again, my response was simply to provide a possible solution to sunfranks' concern. It was not for the purposes of advocating the elimination of private trades in the game.
I cannot begin to tell you all the ways that eliminating trade is a bad idea.
I just want to point out that the simple solution I stated to address the poster's concern about items going for more than what the Exchange price cap is. Not that it is a perfect solution; in fact, there is no perfect solution, and I am not actually proposing that private trades should actually be eliminated from the game.
The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate.
That actually does not make perfect sense. If the Exchange was the only place to sell (trade EC for it) the T6 TLC, then prices would actually go down. All of the supply of T6 TLC "boxes" that people do not want to keep for themselves will then be listed on the Exchange. Typically as supply increases, prices decreases. That means while there would be people listing the T6 TLC for 1.5B EC others will likely be offering the ship for less so that the ship sells more quickly.
Again, if ONE PLACE was the only place you could get it, the prices could start creeping back up.
Imagine a grocery store... The only grocery store within reasonable driving distance. Just because it has multiple brands of the same item does not mean that the competition between brands (or sellers, in the case of STO) would be enough to keep prices down. Once suppliers realize that the grocery store (or exchange) essentially has a captive audience, it's not unreasonable to assume that prices would, once again, start increasing.
Additionally, how would the price go up if there are no T6 TLCs being sold on the Exchange? Are you implying that players are actually engaging in private trades of that ship for less than 1.5B EC?
I don't know where you got that idea...
Another issue comes with people who might something else other than EC due to either the desire for a specific item or the inability to hold such wealth in their accounts. For example, if I had a T6 and was looking to obtain a couple of ships as a trade, I would have to sell the Connie on the exchange and then hope that I could find the ships I was looking for and buy them from the exchange. If the exchange didn't have them, then I'm out of luck.
Well, if private trades were to be eliminated from the game then players with boxed ships that they do not not want to keep for themselves would be list it on the Exchange. Otherwise, it would just sit in their inventory. It is possible that can happen because I recall a post from one player last year who stated that if the price of T6 TLCs were to "crash" he would rather hold on to them or delete them outright rather than sell those ships for below what he thinks is a "fair price".
The idea of holding on to it is smart, but outright deleting it because you can't get what you want is patently stupid, and I would gladly tell anyone the same thing. Getting something out of it is vastly preferable to deleting it, which is a guaranteed profit of zero.
The issue is exacerbated by the EC Cap Limits on accounts. If I did this and already had 900m in my account, it would be adding 1.5b to that for a total of 2.4b EC, which is 400m more than the existing cap limit of 2b. For me, it wouldn't be an issue as I'd just move the existing EC to my account bank, but if a person doesn't have an account bank or it's full, you wind up having to lose 400m in profit because the bank WILL NOT GO OVER 2B EC. That 400m EC will just evaporate into thin air.
As for people with too much wealth there is already a solution for that. It is not eloquent, but it is a solution that have already been practiced. That is to have multiple alts to transfer the wealth to.
Can't do that if you don't have an account bank...
All this is mitigated by the trade. If I can do a direct trade to get what I want, then awesome. It saves me a lot of headaches running between the bank and the exchange as well as the headaches of potential EC loss and not finding what I want.
So given the potential pitfalls of a strictly exchange sale, why is trading a bad thing? Hint: It's not.
Again, my response was simply to provide a possible solution to sunfranks' concern. It was not for the purposes of advocating the elimination of private trades in the game.
You provided a possible solution. I'm pointing out flaws in that possible solution. This isn't an attack against you. It's a discussion of your potential solution.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Again, if ONE PLACE was the only place you could get it, the prices could start creeping back up.
Imagine a grocery store... The only grocery store within reasonable driving distance. Just because it has multiple brands of the same item does not mean that the competition between brands (or sellers, in the case of STO) would be enough to keep prices down. Once suppliers realize that the grocery store (or exchange) essentially has a captive audience, it's not unreasonable to assume that prices would, once again, start increasing.
Additionally, how would the price go up if there are no T6 TLCs being sold on the Exchange? Are you implying that players are actually engaging in private trades of that ship for less than 1.5B EC?
I don't know where you got that idea...
Well, the T6 TLC is not selling on the Exchange (at least as of last night). That means the ship can only be obtained through private trades. That typically implies the ship is trading for a value (whether EC and / or a combo of other items) that is above the current max price limit of 1.5B EC on the Exchange.
If you are stating that the price of the T6 TLC will go up if the Exchange is only place to buy the ship, then that implies the ship is currently being privately traded for less than 1.5B EC because the Exchange max price is 1.5B EC.
Those two ideas conflict with each other.
Can't do that if you don't have an account bank...
The solution is to actually purchase it from the C-Store, or sub for 1 month if playing on the PC. And of course, purchasing additional character slots if necessary. That is the way STO players have done it in the past.
"Well, if private trades were to be eliminated from the game then players with boxed ships that they do not not want to keep for themselves would be list it on the Exchange. Otherwise, it would just sit in their inventory. It is possible that can happen because I recall a post from one player last year who stated that if the price of T6 TLCs were to "crash" he would rather hold on to them or delete them outright rather than sell those ships for below what he thinks is a "fair price"."
The second part of these lines just makes me sad. To delete rather than sell for a lesser price to where someone would enjoy.
"The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate."
This I disagree with, but I might be looking at this incorrectly, because the Exchange incorporates all of the players selling & buying so it is a competitive market.
"I'm happy to report that since the exchange was fixed, the price of the new promo ships has fallen from about 1.1 billion ec down to less than 800m."
That's definitely a good sign & significant drop, that's still too pricey, but I don't think it's the end-all be-all indicator of how this currency cap change will affect the economy. There would need to be a lot of statistical data collected & crunched through to know the numbers overall. That did get me thinking though that probably the extreme examples would be affected first & the most with any type of economic shift versus the more mainstay items of supply & demand being affected less.
Also, wouldn't that non-trade between accounts idea eliminate any possibility of those 3rd party selling/buying I get in-game mail about or does Cryptic control those too?
I'm happy to report that since the exchange was fixed, the price of the new promo ships has fallen from about 1.1 billion ec down to less than 800m.
Key prices are down which brings down the cost of all lockbox and lobi ships as well.
I know it might seem hard to believe that the accumulated knowledge of a century or more of economics might actually yield results, but you can see it with your own eyes now, right here on sto.
Do not discount the fact people are still buying and opening the R&D packs which increases the supply of the new promo ship and places downward pressure on the price.
** EDIT **
Now that I am home... according to the Exchange, individual Master Keys are currently selling for 5.12m EC as opposed to about 5.35m EC from last week. That represents a 4.3% drop in price. However, that is not due to the sudden increase in the EC cap, but more likely due to the fact that the exchange rate for Dilithium has dropped from about 303 last week (pretty sure I saw it at 305 though) down to 285 right now. That is a 5.94% decrease.
So yeah, I do not think the price of Master Keys, and the lower Dil Exchange rate has anything to do with EC Cap increase. The promo ship price... I acknowledge the EC Cap increase does play a certain role, but it is definitely not the only factor for the price to drop from 1.1B EC down to 800m EC.
How is it not a problem? Sure, it's up to the devs to actually put a solution in place, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Eventually, we're just going to get back to where we were before the cap increase, with the attendant issues of private trades. Mostly, I'd like to hear ideas about how we can avoid that.
It isn't a problem because Cryptic has shown a willingness to make changes when they are needed. If an actual problem arises, surely they will do their best to fix it as they have shown here
Hmm, no. It seems we're talking past each other or that you don't quite get what I'm saying. Just because they show a willingness to solve problems does not mean the the original issue is not a problem. As simply as possible, the problem is an excess of ec, and inflation that means that some of the most expensive items won't remain off the grey market. There needs to be some mechanism that ensures that now that things are off the grey market, they stay there.
Or is what you're getting at more like "it must not be a problem, or else they would have done something about it"? That seems like circular reasoning.
How is it not a problem? Sure, it's up to the devs to actually put a solution in place, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Eventually, we're just going to get back to where we were before the cap increase, with the attendant issues of private trades. Mostly, I'd like to hear ideas about how we can avoid that.
It isn't a problem because Cryptic has shown a willingness to make changes when they are needed. If an actual problem arises, surely they will do their best to fix it as they have shown here
Hmm, no. It seems we're talking past each other or that you don't quite get what I'm saying. Just because they show a willingness to solve problems does not mean the the original issue is not a problem. As simply as possible, the problem is an excess of ec, and inflation that means that some of the most expensive items won't remain off the grey market. There needs to be some mechanism that ensures that now that things are off the grey market, they stay there.
Or is what you're getting at more like "it must not be a problem, or else they would have done something about it"? That seems like circular reasoning.
What qualifies as "excess EC?" As I've alluded to but obviously not made clear, I don't see the current amount of EC in the game as being a problem.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Wow less than 24 hours after it's integrated & you & others are claiming some sort of victory LOL
7 days later and prices are still down overall. Seems like all the DOOMsayers have been silent since they realized the truth. A higher exchange limit has lowered prices. Now, let's get that exchange limit and character limit even higher so we can continue to have 100% transparent pricing on the highest priced items like the T6 constitution.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Wow less than 24 hours after it's integrated & you & others are claiming some sort of victory LOL
7 days later and prices are still down overall. Seems like all the DOOMsayers have been silent since they realized the truth. A higher exchange limit has lowered prices. Now, let's get that exchange limit and character limit even higher so we can continue to have 100% transparent pricing on the highest priced items like the T6 constitution.
I have to agree it seems, so far, the higher priced items have fallen mostly so far & I agree that's good. The more normal & middle-ranged items I still don't think have fallen much if at all. That was part of my argument is the extremes might be affected more/quicker. I still think eventually they will rise higher though & now since there's a higher visible price ceiling it will approach that faster. I've been reading though whereas they might be able to only do SO much with raising the limits because of coding which if true is a shame. I agree with the 100% transparency approach & think it would be good. But again, I think my above quoted statement is still true! You were gloating less than 24 hours later. At that time, it was more peacock struting than statistics.
I have to agree it seems, so far, the higher priced items have fallen mostly so far & I agree that's good. The more normal & middle-ranged items I still don't think have fallen much if at all. That was part of my argument is the extremes might be affected more/quicker. I still think eventually they will rise higher though & now since there's a higher visible price ceiling it will approach that faster. I've been reading though whereas they might be able to only do SO much with raising the limits because of coding which if true is a shame. I agree with the 100% transparency approach & think it would be good.
Depends on what you mean when you say "medium priced" item. I would consider a lock box or lobi ship to be a medium priced item. They are typically around 250 - 300 million EC. Those items are unaffected by the rise in the cap which is no surprise since the cap is over a billion EC higher than such "medium priced" items.
But again, I think my above quoted statement is still true! You were gloating less than 24 hours later. At that time, it was more peacock struting than statistics.
There were multiple people that had the foresight to realize what the EC cap changes would bring before the changes actually took place. Druk, myself and numerous other players spent time in game and on the forum trying to calm down the throng of raging players who made the leap to proclaim an incoming jacking up of prices.
This of course was wrong and a simple minded view that didn't take any basic economics in to account. We didn't even need the 24 hours after the fact to know that we were right because the effect of such a change was self-evident if you only understand some super basic econ 101.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I have to agree it seems, so far, the higher priced items have fallen mostly so far & I agree that's good. The more normal & middle-ranged items I still don't think have fallen much if at all. That was part of my argument is the extremes might be affected more/quicker. I still think eventually they will rise higher though & now since there's a higher visible price ceiling it will approach that faster. I've been reading though whereas they might be able to only do SO much with raising the limits because of coding which if true is a shame. I agree with the 100% transparency approach & think it would be good.
Depends on what you mean when you say "medium priced" item. I would consider a lock box or lobi ship to be a medium priced item. They are typically around 250 - 300 million EC. Those items are unaffected by the rise in the cap which is no surprise since the cap is over a billion EC higher than such "medium priced" items.
But again, I think my above quoted statement is still true! You were gloating less than 24 hours later. At that time, it was more peacock struting than statistics.
There were multiple people that had the foresight to realize what the EC cap changes would bring before the changes actually took place. Druk, myself and numerous other players spent time in game and on the forum trying to calm down the throng of raging players who made the leap to proclaim an incoming jacking up of prices.
This of course was wrong and a simple minded view that didn't take any basic economics in to account. We didn't even need the 24 hours after the fact to know that we were right because the effect of such a change was self-evident if you only understand some super basic econ 101.
salazarraze, this was your 1st post:
"This is a great move. Anybody that can't see this is just plain dumb.
With the increase of the exchange posting limit, promo ships that are not on the exchange at prices between 750M and 1.5B will now actually be on the exchange. What does that mean? It means that everything can be done out in the open now. Prices can be measured ACCURATELY instead of just guessed at in private trades.
It will be harder to swindle and harder to get swindled. This is a great move, and anybody saying otherwise just doesn't know jack or is probably a rip-off artist that's pissed off."
salazarraze, your 2nd post:
"I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves.
So far we've seen Enterprise-J prices DROP from 1.5 billion to 1.2 billion thanks to the new currency limits. We've also seen Amarie prices DROP from 1.3 billion to under a billion EC.
I hope that this is a lesson for you guys that higher limits DO NOT make prices go up. They ENCOURAGE COMPETITION and help to lower prices."
salazarraze, your 3rd post:
"That was a pretty long and empty ramble. HIgher exchange and etc. limits do not cause higher pricing as we have seen today. A 750M limit DID NOT stop prices from going up to 1.5 Billion EC on most promo ships. Yet we have seen an immediate, multiple hundreds of millions reduction on promo ship prices across the board since the doubling of exchange limits. This is due to the transparency of pricing thanks to a higher exchange limit.
Inflation is caused by one thing. Actual inflation. Players playing admiralty, doffing, selling loot to vendors, or doing tour the galaxy if they're broke enough. These actions cause inflation. Not character, bank and exchange limits. Character and bank limits don't change anything beyond QOL as any player can just create new characters to get around the limit. Higher exchange limits however decrease prices, as we've seen today and as we will continue to see going forward."
salazarraze, your 4th post:
"Actually there were several on the exchange at 1.5 billion. All of which sold. This is below the previous high water mark price of 1.8 to 2 billion."
salazarraze, your 5th post:
"Prices will continue to rise as they have over the years due to real inflation. Inflation which is caused by EC farming from selling to vendors, admiralty etc. Why would I propose to "handle" that? That's a problem (if you think it's a problem) for the devs."
salazarraze, your 6th post:
"It isn't a problem because Cryptic has shown a willingness to make changes when they are needed. If an actual problem arises, surely they will do their best to fix it as they have shown here." & "I would like to have transparent prices as well which is why I support a higher exchange limit than we have even now. 5 billion per character. 5 billion per bank. 4.5 billion exchange limit I say."
salazarraze, your 7th post:
"What qualifies as "excess EC?" As I've alluded to but obviously not made clear, I don't see the current amount of EC in the game as being a problem."
salazarraze, your 8th post:
"7 days later and prices are still down overall. Seems like all the DOOMsayers have been silent since they realized the truth. A higher exchange limit has lowered prices. Now, let's get that exchange limit and character limit even higher so we can continue to have 100% transparent pricing on the highest priced items like the T6 constitution."
salazarraze, you should perhaps reread some of your own posts when having in mind your own statement: "Druk, myself and numerous other players spent time in game and on the forum trying to calm down the throng of raging players who made the leap to proclaim an incoming jacking up of prices." I'm not sure how your statements: "Anybody that can't see this is just plain dumb." & "... and anybody saying otherwise just doesn't know jack or ..." & "I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves." & "This of course was wrong and a simple minded view ..." is not raging a bit yourself & doesn't seem too focused on informing or calming down others as you claim. Hence, salazarraze, my peacock strutting description is still spot-on. I even reread my own posts to make sure I addressed what seems to be correct, wrong, possibly still right or wrong, & the acknowledgments throughout.
There are actually (2) types of economic inflation: cost-push & demand-pull then they get labeled 4 or 6 different ways depending upon the pace of the inflation. There's lots of variables, & many contributors to inflation even within STO. I'd say the primary contributor is PWE/Cryptic since they have the control. The secondary is us the players & our influence with our actions.
The best post I found for this topic was from: gaevsman whom gave a succinct post: "Well if you think of it, if NO ONE buy in the gray market, forcing sellers to post them on the Exchange, would be the safest way to buy R&D ships."
Comments
on the xbox its the jem hadar attack ship the one that comes with the defence screen console...as it was limited edition to get i.e 1st month sto was online for consoles.. not alot of players managed to get it i personally did not start playing on console until febuary so about 5 months late and i missed out on the xmas event ship aswell..
Now the tricky part of ensuring that those prices don't eventually go back up high enough that this improvement is all undone. How would you propose to handle that?
Prices will continue to rise as they have over the years due to real inflation. Inflation which is caused by EC farming from selling to vendors, admiralty etc. Why would I propose to "handle" that? That's a problem (if you think it's a problem) for the devs.
How is it not a problem? Sure, it's up to the devs to actually put a solution in place, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Eventually, we're just going to get back to where we were before the cap increase, with the attendant issues of private trades. Mostly, I'd like to hear ideas about how we can avoid that.
I've managed to get 3 promo ships and an ultra-rare ship prior to the infinity box over the years. They've all been opened for personal use because it was too much of a pain to offload them, and then they sit in the shipyard as showpieces once I have the trait. Then, when something like the d7 comes along that I do want to try and buy, it's confined to the grey market. Thus, the situation that we had (and, I would contend, will have again) is bad from both ends. Sellers have trouble pricing their wares and have to spend a lot of time and effort finding a buyer once they settle on a price. Buyers have no idea what something is going for or whether they're getting gouged, and can't buy something they want.
Maybe I'm pessimistic, and I'll at least wait and see what happens to prices for a wider range of promo ships when the next r&d infinity promo comes around. Maybe that d7 goes down to 1.4b at the height of supply. But I'd like to have it out in the open between promos.
I would like to have transparent prices as well which is why I support a higher exchange limit than we have even now. 5 billion per character. 5 billion per bank. 4.5 billion exchange limit I say.
Possible.
The post is not about the encouragement of scamming. Instead, it is about players' trust and using the Exchange instead of private trades as a means to address the poster's concern about prices for items going over the Exchange's price limit.
If trading between players are not allowed (no trade window to act as a clearing house so that both players can see what is being offered before accepting the trade), then players would instead rely on the Exchange as a means to sell their items. Otherwise, players would need to have blind trust that if they give an item valued at over 1.5B EC, they will get something of equal value in return. That is why I ended with the statement that not allowing trades will force players to use the Exchange.
Eliminating trades means there is an absolute price cap on items by way of the max price limit set by the Exchange. With a price cap of 1.5B EC, a person with a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser have two choices:
#1 - Sell the ship on the Exchange for 1.5B EC (or less) and be done with it.
#2 - Keep the ship because there is no reliable way to get more than 1.5B EC for the ship.
I always have that fear that repetitiveepic mentions about being scammed, but I also believe in caveat emptor & trying to my research prior. Usually though since I cannot afford such big ticket items in those price ranges I don't have to be concerned about it.
jaguarskx's concept of using the Exchange as the only means of transferring items between players intrigues me, however; i think maybe impossible & definitely unfair to implement now since the STO community has already grown around the current set-up. I like that it would make pricing a finite spectrum range, but then again there would be sly ways around that set-up too. For example I'm selling one of those special Promotion! ships for 2 billion yet the energy credit cap is 1.5 billion. Well no exchanging or mailing between other players so has to be done via the Exchange. Sell the ultra cool ship for 1.5 billion then using trust from the seller or buyer sell a battery or some other immaterial item for 500 million to make-up the difference. It would have to be decided between the seller & buyer which transaction was first but either way would require an amount of trust & it would bypass this hard-cap. Perfect hell no, but it's an alternative.
Again, I don't endorse this type of plan now because it's not what STO has grown upon using, but if done from an origin I could see something similar being able to keep things in check. I still hope prices go down because of this, but in the long run I think this could cause prices to increase faster. Why? Because any time there's a limit set, like this new energy credit ceiling, people want to reach it.
I cannot begin to tell you all the ways that eliminating trade is a bad idea.
The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate.
Another issue comes with people who might something else other than EC due to either the desire for a specific item or the inability to hold such wealth in their accounts. For example, if I had a T6 and was looking to obtain a couple of ships as a trade, I would have to sell the Connie on the exchange and then hope that I could find the ships I was looking for and buy them from the exchange. If the exchange didn't have them, then I'm out of luck.
The issue is exacerbated by the EC Cap Limits on accounts. If I did this and already had 900m in my account, it would be adding 1.5b to that for a total of 2.4b EC, which is 400m more than the existing cap limit of 2b. For me, it wouldn't be an issue as I'd just move the existing EC to my account bank, but if a person doesn't have an account bank or it's full, you wind up having to lose 400m in profit because the bank WILL NOT GO OVER 2B EC. That 400m EC will just evaporate into thin air.
All this is mitigated by the trade. If I can do a direct trade to get what I want, then awesome. It saves me a lot of headaches running between the bank and the exchange as well as the headaches of potential EC loss and not finding what I want.
So given the potential pitfalls of a strictly exchange sale, why is trading a bad thing? Hint: It's not.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I just want to point out that the simple solution I stated to address the poster's concern about items going for more than what the Exchange price cap is. Not that it is a perfect solution; in fact, there is no perfect solution, and I am not actually proposing that private trades should actually be eliminated from the game.
That actually does not make perfect sense. If the Exchange was the only place to sell (trade EC for it) the T6 TLC, then prices would actually go down. All of the supply of T6 TLC "boxes" that people do not want to keep for themselves will then be listed on the Exchange. Typically as supply increases, prices decreases. That means while there would be people listing the T6 TLC for 1.5B EC others will likely be offering the ship for less so that the ship sells more quickly.
Additionally, how would the price go up if there are no T6 TLCs being sold on the Exchange? Are you implying that players are actually engaging in private trades of that ship for less than 1.5B EC?
Well, if private trades were to be eliminated from the game then players with boxed ships that they do not not want to keep for themselves would be list it on the Exchange. Otherwise, it would just sit in their inventory. It is possible that can happen because I recall a post from one player last year who stated that if the price of T6 TLCs were to "crash" he would rather hold on to them or delete them outright rather than sell those ships for below what he thinks is a "fair price".
As for people with too much wealth there is already a solution for that. It is not eloquent, but it is a solution that have already been practiced. That is to have multiple alts to transfer the wealth to.
Again, my response was simply to provide a possible solution to sunfranks' concern. It was not for the purposes of advocating the elimination of private trades in the game.
Again, if ONE PLACE was the only place you could get it, the prices could start creeping back up.
Imagine a grocery store... The only grocery store within reasonable driving distance. Just because it has multiple brands of the same item does not mean that the competition between brands (or sellers, in the case of STO) would be enough to keep prices down. Once suppliers realize that the grocery store (or exchange) essentially has a captive audience, it's not unreasonable to assume that prices would, once again, start increasing.
I don't know where you got that idea...
The idea of holding on to it is smart, but outright deleting it because you can't get what you want is patently stupid, and I would gladly tell anyone the same thing. Getting something out of it is vastly preferable to deleting it, which is a guaranteed profit of zero.
Can't do that if you don't have an account bank...
You provided a possible solution. I'm pointing out flaws in that possible solution. This isn't an attack against you. It's a discussion of your potential solution.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Well, the T6 TLC is not selling on the Exchange (at least as of last night). That means the ship can only be obtained through private trades. That typically implies the ship is trading for a value (whether EC and / or a combo of other items) that is above the current max price limit of 1.5B EC on the Exchange.
If you are stating that the price of the T6 TLC will go up if the Exchange is only place to buy the ship, then that implies the ship is currently being privately traded for less than 1.5B EC because the Exchange max price is 1.5B EC.
Those two ideas conflict with each other.
The solution is to actually purchase it from the C-Store, or sub for 1 month if playing on the PC. And of course, purchasing additional character slots if necessary. That is the way STO players have done it in the past.
The second part of these lines just makes me sad. To delete rather than sell for a lesser price to where someone would enjoy.
"The first one that pops into mind is simple: You eliminate trade, and the only place to get a T6 Temporal Light Cruiser would be the exchange. If you can only get it one place, then the exchange price will go up because there is no competing market for it. You get the exact problem that you were trying to eliminate."
This I disagree with, but I might be looking at this incorrectly, because the Exchange incorporates all of the players selling & buying so it is a competitive market.
"I'm happy to report that since the exchange was fixed, the price of the new promo ships has fallen from about 1.1 billion ec down to less than 800m."
That's definitely a good sign & significant drop, that's still too pricey, but I don't think it's the end-all be-all indicator of how this currency cap change will affect the economy. There would need to be a lot of statistical data collected & crunched through to know the numbers overall. That did get me thinking though that probably the extreme examples would be affected first & the most with any type of economic shift versus the more mainstay items of supply & demand being affected less.
Also, wouldn't that non-trade between accounts idea eliminate any possibility of those 3rd party selling/buying I get in-game mail about or does Cryptic control those too?
Do not discount the fact people are still buying and opening the R&D packs which increases the supply of the new promo ship and places downward pressure on the price.
** EDIT **
Now that I am home... according to the Exchange, individual Master Keys are currently selling for 5.12m EC as opposed to about 5.35m EC from last week. That represents a 4.3% drop in price. However, that is not due to the sudden increase in the EC cap, but more likely due to the fact that the exchange rate for Dilithium has dropped from about 303 last week (pretty sure I saw it at 305 though) down to 285 right now. That is a 5.94% decrease.
So yeah, I do not think the price of Master Keys, and the lower Dil Exchange rate has anything to do with EC Cap increase. The promo ship price... I acknowledge the EC Cap increase does play a certain role, but it is definitely not the only factor for the price to drop from 1.1B EC down to 800m EC.
Hmm, no. It seems we're talking past each other or that you don't quite get what I'm saying. Just because they show a willingness to solve problems does not mean the the original issue is not a problem. As simply as possible, the problem is an excess of ec, and inflation that means that some of the most expensive items won't remain off the grey market. There needs to be some mechanism that ensures that now that things are off the grey market, they stay there.
Or is what you're getting at more like "it must not be a problem, or else they would have done something about it"? That seems like circular reasoning.
Congrats! I hope it was worth it in the end.
I have to agree it seems, so far, the higher priced items have fallen mostly so far & I agree that's good. The more normal & middle-ranged items I still don't think have fallen much if at all. That was part of my argument is the extremes might be affected more/quicker. I still think eventually they will rise higher though & now since there's a higher visible price ceiling it will approach that faster. I've been reading though whereas they might be able to only do SO much with raising the limits because of coding which if true is a shame. I agree with the 100% transparency approach & think it would be good. But again, I think my above quoted statement is still true! You were gloating less than 24 hours later. At that time, it was more peacock struting than statistics.
There were multiple people that had the foresight to realize what the EC cap changes would bring before the changes actually took place. Druk, myself and numerous other players spent time in game and on the forum trying to calm down the throng of raging players who made the leap to proclaim an incoming jacking up of prices.
This of course was wrong and a simple minded view that didn't take any basic economics in to account. We didn't even need the 24 hours after the fact to know that we were right because the effect of such a change was self-evident if you only understand some super basic econ 101.
salazarraze, this was your 1st post:
"This is a great move. Anybody that can't see this is just plain dumb.
With the increase of the exchange posting limit, promo ships that are not on the exchange at prices between 750M and 1.5B will now actually be on the exchange. What does that mean? It means that everything can be done out in the open now. Prices can be measured ACCURATELY instead of just guessed at in private trades.
It will be harder to swindle and harder to get swindled. This is a great move, and anybody saying otherwise just doesn't know jack or is probably a rip-off artist that's pissed off."
salazarraze, your 2nd post:
"I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves.
So far we've seen Enterprise-J prices DROP from 1.5 billion to 1.2 billion thanks to the new currency limits. We've also seen Amarie prices DROP from 1.3 billion to under a billion EC.
I hope that this is a lesson for you guys that higher limits DO NOT make prices go up. They ENCOURAGE COMPETITION and help to lower prices."
salazarraze, your 3rd post:
"That was a pretty long and empty ramble. HIgher exchange and etc. limits do not cause higher pricing as we have seen today. A 750M limit DID NOT stop prices from going up to 1.5 Billion EC on most promo ships. Yet we have seen an immediate, multiple hundreds of millions reduction on promo ship prices across the board since the doubling of exchange limits. This is due to the transparency of pricing thanks to a higher exchange limit.
Inflation is caused by one thing. Actual inflation. Players playing admiralty, doffing, selling loot to vendors, or doing tour the galaxy if they're broke enough. These actions cause inflation. Not character, bank and exchange limits. Character and bank limits don't change anything beyond QOL as any player can just create new characters to get around the limit. Higher exchange limits however decrease prices, as we've seen today and as we will continue to see going forward."
salazarraze, your 4th post:
"Actually there were several on the exchange at 1.5 billion. All of which sold. This is below the previous high water mark price of 1.8 to 2 billion."
salazarraze, your 5th post:
"Prices will continue to rise as they have over the years due to real inflation. Inflation which is caused by EC farming from selling to vendors, admiralty etc. Why would I propose to "handle" that? That's a problem (if you think it's a problem) for the devs."
salazarraze, your 6th post:
"It isn't a problem because Cryptic has shown a willingness to make changes when they are needed. If an actual problem arises, surely they will do their best to fix it as they have shown here." & "I would like to have transparent prices as well which is why I support a higher exchange limit than we have even now. 5 billion per character. 5 billion per bank. 4.5 billion exchange limit I say."
salazarraze, your 7th post:
"What qualifies as "excess EC?" As I've alluded to but obviously not made clear, I don't see the current amount of EC in the game as being a problem."
salazarraze, your 8th post:
"7 days later and prices are still down overall. Seems like all the DOOMsayers have been silent since they realized the truth. A higher exchange limit has lowered prices. Now, let's get that exchange limit and character limit even higher so we can continue to have 100% transparent pricing on the highest priced items like the T6 constitution."
salazarraze, you should perhaps reread some of your own posts when having in mind your own statement: "Druk, myself and numerous other players spent time in game and on the forum trying to calm down the throng of raging players who made the leap to proclaim an incoming jacking up of prices." I'm not sure how your statements: "Anybody that can't see this is just plain dumb." & "... and anybody saying otherwise just doesn't know jack or ..." & "I hope all the clueless posters in this thread are proud of themselves." & "This of course was wrong and a simple minded view ..." is not raging a bit yourself & doesn't seem too focused on informing or calming down others as you claim. Hence, salazarraze, my peacock strutting description is still spot-on. I even reread my own posts to make sure I addressed what seems to be correct, wrong, possibly still right or wrong, & the acknowledgments throughout.
There are actually (2) types of economic inflation: cost-push & demand-pull then they get labeled 4 or 6 different ways depending upon the pace of the inflation. There's lots of variables, & many contributors to inflation even within STO. I'd say the primary contributor is PWE/Cryptic since they have the control. The secondary is us the players & our influence with our actions.
The best post I found for this topic was from: gaevsman whom gave a succinct post: "Well if you think of it, if NO ONE buy in the gray market, forcing sellers to post them on the Exchange, would be the safest way to buy R&D ships."
Now to complete the Floater daily.