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T6 Patrol Escort - What would be needed?
gannadene
Member Posts: 81 Arc User
I always liked the Maelstrom skin of the Patrol Escort. It's one of my favorite Cryptic ship designs. Not so much the others patrol skins... It's an escort sized vessel that still looks like a Fed ship, without becoming a solid body like the Defiant or Pilot Escorts.
Assuming some day, beyond the sea, somewhere, waiting for me, is a t6 Fleet Patrol Escort to replace this old T5u, what do you think would need to be added? Normally, it's a new C-Store skin. That technically exists in the form of the Tempest, and prior to that, the Maelstrom used to be a C Store skin before it became a T5 Fleet ship skin.
The Patrol Escort is a little odd in that it already has a unique console; it's not a particularly great one - the Nadion Saturation Bomb (basically an Ion Stream Projector with a 2 min cooldown that gives no passives.) It has a unique T5 skin and even a unique ship tail gun (basically a weak heavy weapon before there were heavy weapons). But this was all before tier power creep added the T6s and T6 fleets. So while it's now an okay ship, it's old, outdated, outclassed and you don't see too many of them, especially in the Pilot Escort era.
I'd personally suggest making the Nadion Saturation Console and the Tempest Tail Gun part of a 3 console set, with a new C-Store skin carrying the new console.
Remove the Fused element of the tail gun (it's no longer relevant now that there're heavy weapons) and make it a heavy weapon that can only be slotted to the Patrol Escort. Also, the fact that it deals only phaser damage when I'm not running phasers always irked me. It'd be nice if it dealt kinetic damage instead, with its damage lowered accordingly.
The ship would then be a standard 4/3 + heavy slot ship. Unfortunately, it's described as an engineer-focused escort (groan), which basically ruins any chances of it getting a 5/3 setup. I'd like to see it run Cmd Tac-Pilot, Lt Cmd Uni, Lt Cmd Eng, Lt Cmd Uni, Lt Sci, to bring it in line with modern ships (this would let the existing Command seat run pilot abilities and add a universal Lt. Cmd seat.)
So in summary, I think the Patrol would need its Fused tail gun turned into a heavy weapon to bring it in line with how Escorts work now, in addition to a new skin, unique console, set bonus, new seat and an additional console slot (probably Engineering) to bring it up to T6. Thoughts? Complaints about completely unrelated-to-this-discussion T6 ships you instead want? Etc.
Assuming some day, beyond the sea, somewhere, waiting for me, is a t6 Fleet Patrol Escort to replace this old T5u, what do you think would need to be added? Normally, it's a new C-Store skin. That technically exists in the form of the Tempest, and prior to that, the Maelstrom used to be a C Store skin before it became a T5 Fleet ship skin.
The Patrol Escort is a little odd in that it already has a unique console; it's not a particularly great one - the Nadion Saturation Bomb (basically an Ion Stream Projector with a 2 min cooldown that gives no passives.) It has a unique T5 skin and even a unique ship tail gun (basically a weak heavy weapon before there were heavy weapons). But this was all before tier power creep added the T6s and T6 fleets. So while it's now an okay ship, it's old, outdated, outclassed and you don't see too many of them, especially in the Pilot Escort era.
I'd personally suggest making the Nadion Saturation Console and the Tempest Tail Gun part of a 3 console set, with a new C-Store skin carrying the new console.
Remove the Fused element of the tail gun (it's no longer relevant now that there're heavy weapons) and make it a heavy weapon that can only be slotted to the Patrol Escort. Also, the fact that it deals only phaser damage when I'm not running phasers always irked me. It'd be nice if it dealt kinetic damage instead, with its damage lowered accordingly.
The ship would then be a standard 4/3 + heavy slot ship. Unfortunately, it's described as an engineer-focused escort (groan), which basically ruins any chances of it getting a 5/3 setup. I'd like to see it run Cmd Tac-Pilot, Lt Cmd Uni, Lt Cmd Eng, Lt Cmd Uni, Lt Sci, to bring it in line with modern ships (this would let the existing Command seat run pilot abilities and add a universal Lt. Cmd seat.)
So in summary, I think the Patrol would need its Fused tail gun turned into a heavy weapon to bring it in line with how Escorts work now, in addition to a new skin, unique console, set bonus, new seat and an additional console slot (probably Engineering) to bring it up to T6. Thoughts? Complaints about completely unrelated-to-this-discussion T6 ships you instead want? Etc.
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I could see it keeping the tempest's boff layout (commander tactical, lieutenant commander engineering, lieutenant commander universal, and lieutenant science) which is quite flexible, but maybe either increase the science seat to a lieutenant commander rank or just add a fifth ensign rank universal seat to the layout. Not sure on what to change in their console layout other than merely adding one more slot to either engineering (would make sense with the engineering leaning) or the science.
It would be interesting to see a console, or star-ship trait that was leaning towards being used in a hit an run style of combat. Like a trait that gave a stacking buff to your front weapons based on how long your rear weapons are the only weapons firing on your main target, but while your front weapon are firing on a target the stacking buff would slowly decay while your frontal weapons are firing.
As an example, I guess you could make a universal console that works as a toggle. Toggle off and it's a generic turn rate and flight speed passive console. Turn it on and it doubles your outgoing damage but also nullifies your next firing cycle, packing two cycles of damage into one cycle but losing the next. That sort of thing. Something tells me that would be dangerous from a balancing perspective, though.
STO measures things in terms of damage, and players don't hit and run in escorts like they do in canon primarily because it reduces your damage. Unless a console or trait can actually compensate for that without being broken, there's probably no way of getting it to work.
True, though a trait that as explained would make you want to strafe off a target to gain a stacking buff to your forward weapons during the time you are coming around for your next attack run could push that style of combat. Like for instance that for every three seconds you spend with only your rear-weapons firing on a target (or your main target is not in your forward 45-90 degree arc) you would gain 6% additional damage to your forward weapon's damage output, but than this buff would begin to decay at a rate of 2% per second till you only are firing on that target with your rear weapons once more. In this way strafing would become a method of keeping your damage stack up kinda like the idea of the keeping your throttle high to maintain that high damage boost gained from it. Of course there would need to be a cap on the amount of a boost that you can gain via this, but that is something the devs would be better suited to deal with an determine than many players.
For the console the idea of a mode-switching console could be interesting. Like that the passive buff it gives can be switched between a defensive set, and a offensive set of buffs. For instance in defensive mode it might give a boost to your shield an hull capacity or boosts to resistances, while in offensive mode it might give a boost to your damage output an weapon haste (though even the idea of giving both a shield an hull penetration or resistance reduction could be interesting). An than as a draw back maybe it drains the opposing systems for the additional power, so in defensive it drops your damage output an penetration, but in offensive mode it drops your shield an hull capacity.
Also sto has had a history of dropping things into the game that are either broken, or op in the past. I am fine with the idea of something being op, so long as it gets fixed or balanced later.
T6 Fleet Patrol Escort
- Expected HP & SP improvements over T5U.
- 4/3 weapons layout.
- The ever-useless Tempest Tail Gun will be altered to become the 360 degree Heavy Weapon, no longer benefiting from CRF / CSV. This will be hard mounted like the original Tempest Tail Gun.
- Expect the same Turn Rate, Impulse Mod, Bonus Power as T5.
- Expect the same 2 Device Slots and Console Slots (5 TAC, 4 ENG, 2 SCI... Since Plasma Exploders got nuked, the lack of SCI Console Slots is no longer a big deal).
BOFF Stations
Cmdr TAC
LtCmdr ENG / Hybrid Specialist Station
LtCmdr SCI (T5 is at Lt level)
LtCmdr Universal
New console to make a 2 piece set with the T5 Tempest Nadion Saturation Bomb Universal Console. I believe the console set will give a +Phaser damage bonus.
Only thing to point out is that the Patrol Escort is currently the only end game Escort in the game that only has four boff seats. I guess because it has two Lt. Commander seats. Yet it otherwise only has a single tactical seat. That made a little more sense a few years ago, so I doubt it'd stay that way.
That and I don't see a reason to keep the Tempest gun fused, as its damage type is locked and it's not particularly a good weapon, especially compared to the heavy weapons you could replace it with. Super especially if the boff seating remained at 4. The whole logic of it originally being fused was that the ship was gimped in other areas, so it existed mainly to give a little bit of DPS back, but they didn't want you to be able to use the weapon slot. Again, that's no longer relevant. A few too many of the Fed escorts also scream "Use phasers!" when running Antiprotons or Disruptors. Having the Tempest remain a phaser turret or the console also buff only phaser damage isn't necessary. Always that one little orange dot in the midst of the antiproton spread...
Oh god lol...as much as I'd like something like that...it would TRIBBLE up pvp more than ever...cloaker vape builds would be insane if they could do double damage in a pass.
I agree about the fused gun. Just give it an exclusive heavy weapon that you can only get from the purchase of the ship, but I think it should be freely used on any other escort as well in the same the way you can use the railgun from the allied escorts on others. I think it's better this way when it comes to weapons from C-Store ships (like the wide arc quantum from the T5 and T6 Sovy).
Something that I would love to see would be the inclusion of refits of the current vanilla variants the way the Defiant had. I love being able to kitbash my Defiant with new and improved parts of the older variants. It's probably my favorite ship to kitbash next to the Vestas. I realize it's wishful thinking though.
One of the nice things about the Patrol is how easy it is to kitbash. It already has quite a few options, although I think only the Maelstrom and Hermes have the wider escort profile I actually want out of the ship. The others are more standard looking saucers, which look kind of peculiar on something that is meant to be used more like a Defiant class. You can end up with a very long ship, a very wide one, a more fighter-plane kind of design or a standard fed saucer ship, though. A nice looking ship after kitbashing it. Just lacks T6 numbers.
This is more or less what we would see. I can also see the hybrid seating being on the lt. cmdr science.
You're right. The Patrol is a ship that has one of the better selections of variety when it comes to kitbashing.
The patrol escort already has pretty good options. But right now, it's lacking in saucers that aren't just saucers. Maelstrom and Dervish are okay, and help widen its profile, but neither look more like a tactical escort profile that makes you think "escort." The deflectors are fine, but it would be nice to have a Reliant styled hull that has reduced size, and maybe even a top and bottom deflector strip rather than another giant dish.
Nacelles are in a good place. The central pylons tend to just be solid shapes, so it'd be nice to see something that looks like a weapons pod or engineering pod rather than just a slab.
One thing I've noticed that's technically incorrect about the patrol escort is that most of their nacelles don't have line of sight between the nacelle slits. In fact, most of the pylons lower both nacelles to not have line of sight, at all. I thought it'd be nice (although I probably wouldn't use it...) to have a more traditional looking angled up pylon.
Oh my goodness... That looks incredible. The experience is showing.
I remember hearing Plague mention STO's take on April Fool's on a Friendcast episode.
Plague, is that really you?
Technically just taking an existing T5 one and just making it T6. I personally wouldn't consider making a new skin vital, but that's sort of how Cryptic works. It has to show up with flair or I guess they think no one would spend money on it.
I also see it as a full on pilot Manuever ship
I rather like the tail gun being calved off into a new heavy weapon which can be exported to other escorts once you own this ship, as the relentless release of 360 weapons in that slot is a little boring.
I could see them releasing this with ether the Somraw raptor (this was wheat has the same basic stats as the tier five patrol escort), or a tier six update of the heavy raptor design (though not a heavy raptor flight-deck carrier version), yet you could even fgo with a bird of prey either a normal or heavy verity. While for the Romulans maybe go with the Ha'feh Assault Warbird (which is similar stat wise to the patrol escort), or a tactical warbird might work as well for the sake of I prefer the design look of the tactical warbirds to the assault style.
Now even though these above choice are good,a nd could work, there is also the possibility of just using either the stat layout of the patrol escort, or the patrol escort refit as a template for the new pack of escorts. Than the devs could develope a new design for the other two factions like they did for the alliance escorts in a way, such as maybe making a raptor design for the Lethean race (this race even in canon really has no shown ship designs yet), and maybe making another Reman design or another design that merges both Vulcan an Romulan designs like they did with the Romulan multi-mission science ship.
I would not mind seeing the central pylon that is used for housing a deflector, that might even be something that flips out/folds forth from a armored location in the central pylon/pod area outside of combat or while using science powers.I mean the deflector is used for more than just science powers I would imagine, and in a vessel that is going to be getting into combat regularly would want to protect that area much more an place it in a well defend location as well, and so a ship built for patrolling location an dealing with hostilities it would make sense.
Quite like the look of that patrol design, as it reminds me of the robot in one of the Robocop movies I believe.
The answer to that has been the same for other ships that have made their way to T6.
It's because you like the ship and wanted to see it in T6 form.
Some examples:
People wanted a T6 Defiant, Sovereign, Galaxy for a good while before it actually happened. At the time there were already better ships in the Fed lineup alone at T6. The Fed Pilot Escorts for example are amazing Escorts. The Eclipse was already better than the actually implemented T6 Sovereign, Galaxy, Galaxy-X.
But people still wanted those ships because they were Defiant, Sovereign, Galaxy, Galaxy-X, etc. The Eclipse for all her power isn't any of those. The Fed Pilot Ships despite their unquestionable prowess as Escorts, aren't Defiants.
A T6 version of the said ships will simply be that... better, T6 versions of what the fan liked at the T5 level. It may not be as good as what is currently out there right now, but seeing an improved version at the new tier is nice anyways.
Here is the thing they are always going to add more of any given class of ship into the game, and yet that new ship is going to take time to develop, as such you need to get requests an support for a given ship design on the dev's radar early. People always complain about people making requests too late in the developement cycle, and so people are doing that showing support an interest that might be seen or might not be seen as early as they can. An even if that support is not seen early enough for the next escort ship to come out, the fact of the support shown could very well influence future development of another escort down the line. Look at all of the many ships that did get releases, which very well could have been from the support an desire shown by the player-base.