Well Romulans can have a really high Crth/d from traits and their BoFFs that they get from just playing. You say sing cores aren't that good but actually they are as they build power over time. I personally don't use the sing powers that much (except for quantum absorption but only in a pinch) but even then they're pretty good. All Romulan ships have battle cloak and I think some one here mentioned that they all can equip Cannons. Scimitar is considered as a dreadnought and all dreadnoughts have 2 cruiser commands: Attract fire and weapon system efficiency. In my opinion adding cruiser commands to Romulan ships would just simply make the way over powered.
Except not all dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the Scim is a tac dreadnought...so it doesn't get cruiser commands...only engineering based dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the tac or sci based ones don't.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Is this day and age the game is in it seems unfair that they don't...especially since Romulan Escorts get heavy weapons and Science ships get a secondary deflector.
Romulan ships suffer so many disadvantages and were hurt with the Leech nerf, I don't see a single reason why they shouldn't get access to cruiser commands.
What? Romulans have exactly zero Escorts. Their Tactical Warbirds are what they have with heavy weapons.
Because they have Singularity powers, which beat cruiser commands hands down. I literally never use cruiser commands on any character & I almost exclusively fly cruisers. As for Romulans supposed disadvantages, I've never seen them.
Not that I care much for cruiser commands, really, but you're double-dipping here: Singlularity core comes with less power: the former cannot also be used as an argument as to why Roms shouldn't have cruiser commands either.
Here's a fix OP, get an event ship with cruiser commands. That way you don't have to deal with singularities and you get cruiser commands. That's a win-win solution in my book
Well Romulans can have a really high Crth/d from traits and their BoFFs that they get from just playing. You say sing cores aren't that good but actually they are as they build power over time. I personally don't use the sing powers that much (except for quantum absorption but only in a pinch) but even then they're pretty good. All Romulan ships have battle cloak and I think some one here mentioned that they all can equip Cannons. Scimitar is considered as a dreadnought and all dreadnoughts have 2 cruiser commands: Attract fire and weapon system efficiency. In my opinion adding cruiser commands to Romulan ships would just simply make the way over powered.
Except not all dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the Scim is a tac dreadnought...so it doesn't get cruiser commands...only engineering based dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the tac or sci based ones don't.
So by that logic my SCI/tac oriented oddy/bortas shouldn't have cruiser commands. All Scimitars are considered dreadnoughst so they all would get cruiser commands. Your argument here is that Romulan cruisers/dreadnought should get the commands but your excluding some. You're contradicting yourself here
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
I personally would like at least some Romulan native ships with Cruiser Command suite...
Why the heck name them "Warbird Battlecruiser" anyway if they don't have chief cruiser gimmick?
Because a battlecruiser is not the same thing as a cruiser.
Cruisers are a 'balanced' design in which firepower, speed, and armor are considered of equal importance. Battlecruisers are a compromise design in which one of the three primary traits is neglected in favor of the other two.
During the Battle of Jutland the Royal Navy treated its battlecruisers as if they were battleships and paid the price, prompting Admiral Beatty to say, "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."
What was wrong was repeated in the Denmark Straits a generation later when Bismark sank Hood. Battlecruisers are not battleships either.
British battlecruisers were fleet scours, raiders, and flankers. They were not designed to stand in the line and take punishment. They were designed to run independently or in small squadrons to seek out the enemy fleets and neutralize enemy commerce.
German battlecruisers of WW1 took a different path. They were designed as vanguard and screening force elements and, as such, armor and speed were the dominant traits with much smaller guns than their British counterparts. They also performed the role of the fleet scout.
In the same battle in which RN battlecruisers were going down like lead submarines the German battlecruisers performed a screening action which resulted in the escape of the High Seas Fleet from Jellicoe's trap. Because survivability, specifically against the RN 15" naval rifle, was a primary consideration, the German battlecruisers not only took all the punishment that Jellicoe's fleet could deliver, they sailed off afterward.Google pictures of Derfflinger if you want to see just how much punishment they could take.
Klingon battlecruisers are battlecruisers in the RN tradition; they are glass cannons.
Federation battlecruisers are battlecruisers in the German tradition; they are diamonds with guns.
The proper use of battlecruisers was demonstrated by the RN in the Battle of the Falkland Islands, when battlecruisers were sent to hunt down a German raider squadron. Although the British still tried to use their ships as battleships in the actual battle causing far more damage to their own ships than they should have sustained, their mission was to scout for then destroy ships of lesser capability. That is a battlecruiser's role.
Battlecruiser in STO seems to be just a badass sounding name you can attach to a ship, but it actually refers to a particular design philosophy developed by Admiral Fisher who, in designing the original Dreadnaught, conceived of a need not met by the existing ship classes. His notes on how to use this new class of ship he called the battlecruiser were largely ignored by admirals who confused size with role.
Battlecruisers are not large cruisers. Battlecruisers are not battleships. They are the bullies of the fleet, designed either to hit and run or to stand and take a beating. Neither kind can do both jobs.
Battlecruiser in STO seems to be just a badass sounding name you can attach to a ship
This is the relevant part of that TLDR. It's just a name, to mean whatever Cryptic wants it to, up to and including nothing.
This is to say, on topic, the reason romulan cruisers ("warbird," "battle" or other buzzwords attached) don't have cruiser commands is because Cryptic hasn't seen fit to give them any.
Point taken. However, a cruiser is a fleet element designed for fleet command and combined fleet actions. The battlecruiser is a scout, raider, flanker, and/or vanguard element designed for independent or small squadron actions.
Even in STO this remains true, even if players don't use one ship differently than the other.
The best example of the difference I can think of right now is the difference between a Centaur and a B'Rel. The B'Rel can outshoot and outmaneuver the Centaur, but cannot stay in the fight as long. Centaur is a cruiser, B'Rel is a battlecruiser.
Battlecruisers trace their lineage to the frigates of the age of sail while cruisers are modern man-o-wars.
The best example of the difference I can think of right now is the difference between a Centaur and a B'Rel. The B'Rel can outshoot and outmaneuver the Centaur, but cannot stay in the fight as long. Centaur is a cruiser, B'Rel is a battlecruiser.
B'Rel is a Raider though. We shouldn't be comparing STO ships to IRL human naval ships, because they're not based on IRL human naval ships.
Here's a fix OP, get an event ship with cruiser commands. That way you don't have to deal with singularities and you get cruiser commands. That's a win-win solution in my book
Well Romulans can have a really high Crth/d from traits and their BoFFs that they get from just playing. You say sing cores aren't that good but actually they are as they build power over time. I personally don't use the sing powers that much (except for quantum absorption but only in a pinch) but even then they're pretty good. All Romulan ships have battle cloak and I think some one here mentioned that they all can equip Cannons. Scimitar is considered as a dreadnought and all dreadnoughts have 2 cruiser commands: Attract fire and weapon system efficiency. In my opinion adding cruiser commands to Romulan ships would just simply make the way over powered.
Except not all dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the Scim is a tac dreadnought...so it doesn't get cruiser commands...only engineering based dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the tac or sci based ones don't.
So by that logic my SCI/tac oriented oddy/bortas shouldn't have cruiser commands. All Scimitars are considered dreadnoughst so they all would get cruiser commands. Your argument here is that Romulan cruisers/dreadnought should get the commands but your excluding some. You're contradicting yourself here
Umm no I'm not? You're just trying to argue semantics because you have no real argument.
Is this day and age the game is in it seems unfair that they don't...especially since Romulan Escorts get heavy weapons and Science ships get a secondary deflector.
Romulan ships suffer so many disadvantages and were hurt with the Leech nerf, I don't see a single reason why they shouldn't get access to cruiser commands.
What? Romulans have exactly zero Escorts. Their Tactical Warbirds are what they have with heavy weapons.
If you want to be technical...all Romulans ships are Warbirds...I made a slip of the tongue and later I called them Tactical Warbirds...but sure if you want to focus on a mistake I made earlier.
If Tactical Warbirds can get heavy weapon slots and Science Warbirds can get all of the perks Science ships enjoy then why can't the Battlecruisers at least get the Battlecruiser based Cruiser commands...after all they're called Warbird Battlecruisers.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Here's a fix OP, get an event ship with cruiser commands. That way you don't have to deal with singularities and you get cruiser commands. That's a win-win solution in my book
Well Romulans can have a really high Crth/d from traits and their BoFFs that they get from just playing. You say sing cores aren't that good but actually they are as they build power over time. I personally don't use the sing powers that much (except for quantum absorption but only in a pinch) but even then they're pretty good. All Romulan ships have battle cloak and I think some one here mentioned that they all can equip Cannons. Scimitar is considered as a dreadnought and all dreadnoughts have 2 cruiser commands: Attract fire and weapon system efficiency. In my opinion adding cruiser commands to Romulan ships would just simply make the way over powered.
Except not all dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the Scim is a tac dreadnought...so it doesn't get cruiser commands...only engineering based dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the tac or sci based ones don't.
So by that logic my SCI/tac oriented oddy/bortas shouldn't have cruiser commands. All Scimitars are considered dreadnoughst so they all would get cruiser commands. Your argument here is that Romulan cruisers/dreadnought should get the commands but your excluding some. You're contradicting yourself here
Umm no I'm not? You're just trying to argue semantics because you have no real argument.
There you go, I've listed half a dozen different ships that are called dreadnoughts that have no cruiser commands at all...sorry try again.
Because those ships get something else. the Xindi, Herald, Jem'Hadar, and the Sphere build ship gets 2 hanger bays. The Annorax and the Paradox get a secondary deflector, SA and a single hanger. By adding cruiser commands on top of that would just make those ship over powered.
[A] All Klingon Battle Cruisers and Flight-Deck Cruisers will gain access to these Commands. However, Romulan Republic Warbirds will not obtain these powers.
I'll concede that I was wrong with the Scimitars, only the engineer one would receive cruisers commands if Romulan warbirds were included
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
I have to agree that a dreadnought is not a sub-type of a cruiser, but a type that you add onto other types of ships that improves certain stats of the existing ship type. As shown you have Dreadnought carriers, science Dreadnoughts, Dreadnought cruisers. Hell I am kinda astonished that we do not have a Dreadnought escort/raider at this point.
There is one huge issue with using the singularity-core as the reasoning for why the Romulan cruisers/battle-cruisers do not have cruiser commands, and that issue is that the singularity-core is already balanced power-wise against the warp-core that the other factions use. So if you use the fact that a Romulan battle-cruiser or cruiser does not gain cruiser commands since it has the singularity core, than you are gimping that ship even more since the singularity core already has the clicky powers to offset of the reduced power an ramp up time to get full power already for using it over a warp-core instead.
Now if we use the battle-cloak as a reasoning for why the Romulan battle-cruisers/cruisers do not have cruiser commands it is a bit more reasonable. Though even here I do not think the battle-cloak is worth the cost of losing four cruiser commands, and think that a cruiser with a battle-cloak might only have 3 cruiser commands, while a Romulan battle-cruiser would have two cruiser commands, but that which cruiser commands to give them is the harder part.
Though I will say I would rather see the devs give those Romulan players an option on what they want on their cruiser. If they want the singularity-core powers they can slot that core, but if they want the cruiser commands they can merely slot a warp-core instead. This would keep the fact that what you prefer is available, but also that you can't double dip.
Battle Cloaks are built in, far superior than the Standard Cloaks of Klingon warships.
Combine that with the best BOFF space trait combinations in the game with FULL SRO builds and traits to enhance cloak capabilities and even recloaking timers.
Is this day and age the game is in it seems unfair that they don't...especially since Romulan Escorts get heavy weapons and Science ships get a secondary deflector.
Romulan ships suffer so many disadvantages and were hurt with the Leech nerf, I don't see a single reason why they shouldn't get access to cruiser commands.
What? Romulans have exactly zero Escorts. Their Tactical Warbirds are what they have with heavy weapons.
What? Romulans have no Pilot Escorts?! Could have fooled me, as I'm flying one!
Is this day and age the game is in it seems unfair that they don't...especially since Romulan Escorts get heavy weapons and Science ships get a secondary deflector.
Romulan ships suffer so many disadvantages and were hurt with the Leech nerf, I don't see a single reason why they shouldn't get access to cruiser commands.
What? Romulans have exactly zero Escorts. Their Tactical Warbirds are what they have with heavy weapons.
What? Romulans have no Pilot Escorts?! Could have fooled me, as I'm flying one!
That's correct. Only Starfleet gets Pilot Escorts, because "escort" is a Starfleet euphemism for "warship." The klingon versions are called Pilot Raptors and romulans' Pilot Warbirds.
Is this day and age the game is in it seems unfair that they don't...especially since Romulan Escorts get heavy weapons and Science ships get a secondary deflector.
Romulan ships suffer so many disadvantages and were hurt with the Leech nerf, I don't see a single reason why they shouldn't get access to cruiser commands.
What? Romulans have exactly zero Escorts. Their Tactical Warbirds are what they have with heavy weapons.
What? Romulans have no Pilot Escorts?! Could have fooled me, as I'm flying one!
That's correct. Only Starfleet gets Pilot Escorts, because "escort" is a Starfleet euphemism for "warship." The klingon versions are called Pilot Raptors and romulans' Pilot Warbirds.
You got me there on the name. They're still Escorts, though, in any way that counts. I mean, the suggestion seemed to be Roms have no Escort type ships, which of course they do. These Pilot ships have the same station/console layout as their Fed counterparts (but, naturally, come with a Singularity core and Cloak).
I don't know why you even mention that because the Scimitar isn't a Cruiser...so it wouldn't be affected by this change.
Though I think the comparison has some validity. The Scimi is the Rom flagship - and Fed and KDF have their flagships as cruisers. So when you buy the cross faction pack, you'll get a tactical oriented ship instead of cruisers. Because that's the Rom MO. Same with other sets - Morrigu e.g. You have the command cruisers (Baratan, Daihu, Vastam), the Aelahl, the Kara. That's about it (there may be two or so more I forgot about). But none of them is a typical cruiser. Way higher agility than their counterparts with the other factions as an example. The Roms are just not keen to build a cruiser type ship (as defined in this game). So in my opinion for none of these ships it makes sense to have the classic cruiser commands. The question whether Roms should have a full-on cruiser is a different one, but the commands just don't make sense.
And I like the cruiser commands - unlike temporal ship specialization they don't have any disadvantages whatsoever, so just putting any of those to "always on after start" cannot be a bad move - at worst, it doesn't help. Well, draw fire may kill you, but then you did something wrong. And they can immensely help, e.g. when soloing (because of no clue teammates) Tzenkethi front: go weapons to burn down the bomb carrier, go speed to reach the Tzen base, go shield so their firing doesn't hurt you as much and you can interact under fire, go speed to get back to the next bomb carrier, repeat. Not strictly necessary, but very convenient.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I haven't had any problems with Romulan ships not having crusier commands for cruiser like warbirds. Truth be told the singularity powers more then make up for that. Jumps and decoys > cruiser commands. Especially when you can decoy and cloak more safer then most non romulan battle cloak ships.
Comments
It gets a heavy weapon so now it has 8 weapons
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Except not all dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the Scim is a tac dreadnought...so it doesn't get cruiser commands...only engineering based dreadnoughts get cruiser commands...the tac or sci based ones don't.
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Not that I care much for cruiser commands, really, but you're double-dipping here: Singlularity core comes with less power: the former cannot also be used as an argument as to why Roms shouldn't have cruiser commands either.
So by that logic my SCI/tac oriented oddy/bortas shouldn't have cruiser commands. All Scimitars are considered dreadnoughst so they all would get cruiser commands. Your argument here is that Romulan cruisers/dreadnought should get the commands but your excluding some. You're contradicting yourself here
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Why the heck name them "Warbird Battlecruiser" anyway if they don't have chief cruiser gimmick?
Cruisers are a 'balanced' design in which firepower, speed, and armor are considered of equal importance. Battlecruisers are a compromise design in which one of the three primary traits is neglected in favor of the other two.
During the Battle of Jutland the Royal Navy treated its battlecruisers as if they were battleships and paid the price, prompting Admiral Beatty to say, "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."
What was wrong was repeated in the Denmark Straits a generation later when Bismark sank Hood. Battlecruisers are not battleships either.
British battlecruisers were fleet scours, raiders, and flankers. They were not designed to stand in the line and take punishment. They were designed to run independently or in small squadrons to seek out the enemy fleets and neutralize enemy commerce.
German battlecruisers of WW1 took a different path. They were designed as vanguard and screening force elements and, as such, armor and speed were the dominant traits with much smaller guns than their British counterparts. They also performed the role of the fleet scout.
In the same battle in which RN battlecruisers were going down like lead submarines the German battlecruisers performed a screening action which resulted in the escape of the High Seas Fleet from Jellicoe's trap. Because survivability, specifically against the RN 15" naval rifle, was a primary consideration, the German battlecruisers not only took all the punishment that Jellicoe's fleet could deliver, they sailed off afterward.Google pictures of Derfflinger if you want to see just how much punishment they could take.
Klingon battlecruisers are battlecruisers in the RN tradition; they are glass cannons.
Federation battlecruisers are battlecruisers in the German tradition; they are diamonds with guns.
The proper use of battlecruisers was demonstrated by the RN in the Battle of the Falkland Islands, when battlecruisers were sent to hunt down a German raider squadron. Although the British still tried to use their ships as battleships in the actual battle causing far more damage to their own ships than they should have sustained, their mission was to scout for then destroy ships of lesser capability. That is a battlecruiser's role.
Battlecruiser in STO seems to be just a badass sounding name you can attach to a ship, but it actually refers to a particular design philosophy developed by Admiral Fisher who, in designing the original Dreadnaught, conceived of a need not met by the existing ship classes. His notes on how to use this new class of ship he called the battlecruiser were largely ignored by admirals who confused size with role.
Battlecruisers are not large cruisers. Battlecruisers are not battleships. They are the bullies of the fleet, designed either to hit and run or to stand and take a beating. Neither kind can do both jobs.
This is to say, on topic, the reason romulan cruisers ("warbird," "battle" or other buzzwords attached) don't have cruiser commands is because Cryptic hasn't seen fit to give them any.
Even in STO this remains true, even if players don't use one ship differently than the other.
The best example of the difference I can think of right now is the difference between a Centaur and a B'Rel. The B'Rel can outshoot and outmaneuver the Centaur, but cannot stay in the fight as long. Centaur is a cruiser, B'Rel is a battlecruiser.
Battlecruisers trace their lineage to the frigates of the age of sail while cruisers are modern man-o-wars.
B'Rel is a Raider though. We shouldn't be comparing STO ships to IRL human naval ships, because they're not based on IRL human naval ships.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Umm no I'm not? You're just trying to argue semantics because you have no real argument.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Xindi-Aquatic_Narcine_Dreadnought_Carrier
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Herald_Vonph_Dreadnought_Carrier
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jem'Hadar_Dreadnought_Carrier_(T6)
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Sphere_Builder_Denuos_Dreadnought_Carrier
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Krenim_Annorax_Science_Dreadnought
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Paradox_Temporal_Dreadnought
There you go, I've listed half a dozen different ships that are called dreadnoughts that have no cruiser commands at all...sorry try again.
If you want to be technical...all Romulans ships are Warbirds...I made a slip of the tongue and later I called them Tactical Warbirds...but sure if you want to focus on a mistake I made earlier.
If Tactical Warbirds can get heavy weapon slots and Science Warbirds can get all of the perks Science ships enjoy then why can't the Battlecruisers at least get the Battlecruiser based Cruiser commands...after all they're called Warbird Battlecruisers.
Because those ships get something else. the Xindi, Herald, Jem'Hadar, and the Sphere build ship gets 2 hanger bays. The Annorax and the Paradox get a secondary deflector, SA and a single hanger. By adding cruiser commands on top of that would just make those ship over powered.
Link to the blog for Cruiser Commands
http://www.arcgames.com/de/games/pab_sto/news/detail/1003340-legacy-of-romulus-dev-blog-#46
I don't see warbird
[Q] Will Klingons and Romulan ships also get Cruiser Commands?
[A] All Klingon Battle Cruisers and Flight-Deck Cruisers will gain access to these Commands. However, Romulan Republic Warbirds will not obtain these powers.
I'll concede that I was wrong with the Scimitars, only the engineer one would receive cruisers commands if Romulan warbirds were included
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
There is one huge issue with using the singularity-core as the reasoning for why the Romulan cruisers/battle-cruisers do not have cruiser commands, and that issue is that the singularity-core is already balanced power-wise against the warp-core that the other factions use. So if you use the fact that a Romulan battle-cruiser or cruiser does not gain cruiser commands since it has the singularity core, than you are gimping that ship even more since the singularity core already has the clicky powers to offset of the reduced power an ramp up time to get full power already for using it over a warp-core instead.
Now if we use the battle-cloak as a reasoning for why the Romulan battle-cruisers/cruisers do not have cruiser commands it is a bit more reasonable. Though even here I do not think the battle-cloak is worth the cost of losing four cruiser commands, and think that a cruiser with a battle-cloak might only have 3 cruiser commands, while a Romulan battle-cruiser would have two cruiser commands, but that which cruiser commands to give them is the harder part.
Though I will say I would rather see the devs give those Romulan players an option on what they want on their cruiser. If they want the singularity-core powers they can slot that core, but if they want the cruiser commands they can merely slot a warp-core instead. This would keep the fact that what you prefer is available, but also that you can't double dip.
DC/DHC capable in general.
Battle Cloaks are built in, far superior than the Standard Cloaks of Klingon warships.
Combine that with the best BOFF space trait combinations in the game with FULL SRO builds and traits to enhance cloak capabilities and even recloaking timers.
What? Romulans have no Pilot Escorts?! Could have fooled me, as I'm flying one!
You got me there on the name. They're still Escorts, though, in any way that counts. I mean, the suggestion seemed to be Roms have no Escort type ships, which of course they do. These Pilot ships have the same station/console layout as their Fed counterparts (but, naturally, come with a Singularity core and Cloak).
Though I think the comparison has some validity. The Scimi is the Rom flagship - and Fed and KDF have their flagships as cruisers. So when you buy the cross faction pack, you'll get a tactical oriented ship instead of cruisers. Because that's the Rom MO. Same with other sets - Morrigu e.g. You have the command cruisers (Baratan, Daihu, Vastam), the Aelahl, the Kara. That's about it (there may be two or so more I forgot about). But none of them is a typical cruiser. Way higher agility than their counterparts with the other factions as an example. The Roms are just not keen to build a cruiser type ship (as defined in this game). So in my opinion for none of these ships it makes sense to have the classic cruiser commands. The question whether Roms should have a full-on cruiser is a different one, but the commands just don't make sense.
And I like the cruiser commands - unlike temporal ship specialization they don't have any disadvantages whatsoever, so just putting any of those to "always on after start" cannot be a bad move - at worst, it doesn't help. Well, draw fire may kill you, but then you did something wrong. And they can immensely help, e.g. when soloing (because of no clue teammates) Tzenkethi front: go weapons to burn down the bomb carrier, go speed to reach the Tzen base, go shield so their firing doesn't hurt you as much and you can interact under fire, go speed to get back to the next bomb carrier, repeat. Not strictly necessary, but very convenient.