I ask once more, with feeling to please add Klingon Empire Rebels (House of Torg) into the Foundry?

lucho80

Any dev, please? Give us some other way to get the ground kill accolade other than playing "The Undying" 1000 times?

These guys: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Klingon_Empire_Rebel

thay8472

Use Rogue Klingon npc groups.

lucho80

thay8472 wrote: »

Use Rogue Klingon npc groups.

They don't count towards that accolade's completion. Not the same. Those count towards normal KDF kills.

thegreendragoon1

I don't think making accolades easier was really the intent of the Foundry.

shadowslasher410

YES! And ships too! Not sure if this is a bug or not, but the DSE that used to have klingon rebel ships doesn't count towards the accolade anymore (at least when I've played it). But seriously... we need these guys in the foundry!!

duncanidaho11

Question: if an achievement is easily achievable, what's the point? I say, keep the rebel Klingon kill counts as they are and challenge players to put the time in to grinding the Undying 1,000 times. Tweaking Foundry KDF rebels to make this accolade as simple as playing one grinder would truly rob something from those who may have already shown you guys up in dedicated completionism. Would it be fair to change the rules now? Hell no, so step up or move onto something else (maybe Foundry mission building, it's so much more engaging.)

lucho80

And I thought the PvP crowd was though. The foundry crowd seems to be merciless.

shadowslasher410

Well, I mean we can dream right? There's a starship full of characters and NPCs that should be added to the foundry. It's not like its actually going to happen... *shrug*

duncanidaho11

And I thought the PvP crowd was though. The foundry crowd seems to be merciless.

This is our house, we built it ourselves with 275 blocks arranged just so!

(More seriously, this suggestion doesn't have any utility beyond making one achievement easier to get. The Foundry doesn't get a whole lot of dev time, so we can't really get behind the idea of a stat tweak with no other practical function. There's many other comparable things that would better serve the Foundry community, like including new enemy mob types, contact NPC's, costumes, ect..)

thay8472

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

And I thought the PvP crowd was though. The foundry crowd seems to be merciless.

This is our house, we built it ourselves with 275 blocks arranged just so!

(More seriously, this suggestion doesn't have any utility beyond making one achievement easier to get. The Foundry doesn't get a whole lot of dev time, so we can't really get behind the idea of a stat tweak with no other practical function. There's many other comparable things that would better serve the Foundry community, like including new enemy mob types, contact NPC's, costumes, ect..)

Technically what we wants is a new enemy mob type. Though if you run the Torg missions with 5 players you'll easily scope up those accolades.

Edit: Nevermind ... I was thnking of the wrong group.

duncanidaho11

thay8472 wrote: »

Technically what we wants is a new enemy mob type.

Which in every way except accolade count would be the same as the existing rebel klingon type. It wouldn't be new in the sense of, say, adding the Krenim to the Foundry.

lucho80

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Which in every way except accolade count would be the same as the existing rebel klingon type. It wouldn't be new in the sense of, say, adding the Krenim to the Foundry.

Newish? Man tough crowd. At least you guys get attention. PvP hasn't been updated since the ice age.

duncanidaho11

lucho80 wrote: »

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Which in every way except accolade count would be the same as the existing rebel klingon type. It wouldn't be new in the sense of, say, adding the Krenim to the Foundry.

Newish? Man tough crowd. At least you guys get attention. PvP hasn't been updated since the ice age.

What's PvP have to do with accolade grinders?

lucho80

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

What's PvP have to do with accolade grinders?

Your excuse for brushing me off is that "The Foundry has limited resources", yet it gets updates very regularly. Tell me oh wise one, when did PvP last get an actual update? (Not bug fix from something they broke with a season release).

I'll give you a hint, it was more than 5 years ago.

Your complaint really doesn't seem valid there.

drogyn1701

Oooook, let's take a step back.

Yes, the Foundry does gets development, in the form of new NPCs, ships, occasional maps and objects.

Yes, PvP gets none. (other than the black hole PvP map that was briefly on tribble and hasn't made it to Holodeck, if it ever will).

I've made this comparison myself any number of times: "at least we get some attention, unlike PvP." However, more often than not, we get development from a dev in their spare time, which is limited. You can probably count on one hand the number of times the Foundry has been scheduled for development in the past 3-4 years, and at least one of those times, Taco specifically chose to use that time for something else (finishing Club 47).

Now, is any of that relevant to this request? Well, I'd say that whether PvP gets any dev time isn't the issue at hand. Whether the Foundry gets any dev time and how they utilize that dev time is relevant.

Zero told us in the Roundtable chat room not long ago that her goal is to get every NPC group type in the game into the Foundry. She just got the Tzenkethi in this week. I'm guessing she does this in between her other duties. So there is a type of rebel Klingon NPC group that is currently not available, I would say that falls within the "every NPC type" goal, however similar it is to something we have. To request it is not unreasonable. Whether she wants to take the time to add it is up to her. She may decide that isn't something she wants to focus on. And remember that at this point any request made is one among hundreds, if not thousands, of other requests.

duncanidaho11

drogyn1701 wrote: »

So there is a type of rebel Klingon NPC group that is currently not available, I would say that falls within the "every NPC type" goal, however similar it is to something we have.

Isn't it entirely identical though? Apart from counting/not counting towards the accolade, is there anything else that distinguishes these "new" Klingon rebels from the Klingon rebels we already have? That's where I'm coming from on this, I would say that the NPC group from all but one point of view is already in. It just hasn't been added in a way that would count for the accolade.

That just means the Foundry can't be used as a work around to farm Klingon rebels. Is that really an issue though? If something really needs to be done about it, why not ask cryptic to do something about it in the main game (where the problem originates)? For example: re-assign KDF mobs in at least one mission where you're arguably fighting rogue klingons. Alternatively, they could just scrap the accolade as being unworkable or leave it as is for a remarkably insane achievement players can dare themselves to attempt (not every accolade has to be within the general population's reach.)

It's just stuff to consider for the topic.

drogyn1701

I'd say any decision over those sorts distinctions falls entirely on Cryptic's side of the fence. Over the long history of the Foundry, I don't recall them saying anything one way or other on accolade grinders.

We each make requests based on what's going to be useful for us. Whomever it falls to add or not add things to the Foundry has to look at "Can I add this? Is this a good use of my time or are there other things I should spend this time adding? Does this fit my vision for what the Foundry should be?"

duncanidaho11

Decisions, unquestionably, but we can still approach the question of from an individual perspective.

"Does thing X have utility for what I do, yes/no?"

Saying "no" there isn't a development veto, or "brushing off" the OP as he put it. It's saying "for where I am, this suggestion doesn't seem useful." It's another data point of feedback, and ideally something that discussion could use to develop the idea further (whether the OP fully agrees with it or not.)

lucho80

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Decisions, unquestionably, but we can still approach the question of from an individual perspective.

"Does thing X have utility for what I do, yes/no?"

Saying "no" there isn't a development veto, or "brushing off" the OP as he put it. It's saying "for where I am, this suggestion doesn't seem useful." It's another data point of feedback, and ideally something that discussion could use to develop the idea further (whether the OP fully agrees with it or not.)

You don't find it useful, others do.

duncanidaho11

lucho80 wrote: »

You don't find it useful, others do.

Here's the balance: this suggestion only has a (subjective) effect on your niche group. Pretty much by definition, it's outside the intended use of the Foundry to use it as another way of completing accolades. The problem we have here is that you can't make the grinder you want with the Klingon rebel mobs we have. You don't consider the fact that, for every other Foundry user out there, those NPC's satisfy every other conceivable function rebel Klingons have. They simply aren't an appropriate fallback to separate problem you're having with Cryptic's missions (ie. they hardly use Klingon Rebels that count towards the accolade).

So here's my main point, and I really won't belabor it for much longer since this really does not relate to the Foundry: this issue doesn't stem from the Foundry. It stems from Cryptic's missions. So, why not approach the problem directly? First ask (or rather, remind) Cryptic for Klingon mob substitutions in a mission where we fight renegade members of the KDF (ex. B'vat's crew). Then, use the response or lack thereof to judge whether or not the Foundry fallback is worth pursuing (keeping in mind that this is the harder sell.)

lucho80

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Keeping in mind that this is the harder sell.

Challenge accepted. You don't know how annoying I can get asking for stuff. Just look at some of the bugs I asked to get fixed for 6 months straight a couple of years ago. Every Monday, I'll keep this alive then, just as I used to do until something happens. Should be fun. I haven't done this in a while.

lucho80

As promised, this is the first Monday of me asking yet again to the powers that be, please add the House of Torg KDF Rebels to the Foundry.

lucho80

Got busy and forgot, but I still want Rebel KDF to be added to the Foundry. I will prevail.

lucho80

Still want these guys in the Foundry. By the way, to the people that maintain these forums, nice revamp of the background.

angrytarg

Last time I checked even Captain Fang wasn't a rebel Klingon any more. Can anyone confirm that? If so, then no NPCs int he game actually count for the accolade.​​

lucho80

Ain't nothin' gonna break-a my stride
Nobody gonna slow me down, oh no
I got to keep on movin'....

baddmoonrizin

Closing this. Bumping your own thread is not allowed.