point of observation here, there seems to be a very 'borty' feel to these stats-they look like it should be so much better than it is, and tied to some (again) very expensive artwork on a platform that costs a lot, but doesn't actually deliver much on it's promise, due to lacking inherent qualities that would let you control the engagement enough to overcome the shortcoming in the manuever and turn rates and make actual USE of the forward mounts.
Informative analysis as always - thanks! It's certainly not a cost-efficient option, but I'd been wondering if the D9 could be shoehorned into the sort of builds that make the Vengeance class a DPS monster (now there's a ship that needs a KDF copypasta....)
I suspect that I'll probably end up slotting the support consoles on my faithful Negh'tev - there's a scratching in the back of my brain reminding me of ancient PVP days when you needed to keep up with the BOPs you were supporting....
point of observation here, there seems to be a very 'borty' feel to these stats-they look like it should be so much better than it is, and tied to some (again) very expensive artwork on a platform that costs a lot, but doesn't actually deliver much on it's promise, due to lacking inherent qualities that would let you control the engagement enough to overcome the shortcoming in the manuever and turn rates and make actual USE of the forward mounts.
Informative analysis as always - thanks! It's certainly not a cost-efficient option, but I'd been wondering if the D9 could be shoehorned into the sort of builds that make the Vengeance class a DPS monster (now there's a ship that needs a KDF copypasta....)
I suspect that I'll probably end up slotting the support consoles on my faithful Negh'tev - there's a scratching in the back of my brain reminding me of ancient PVP days when you needed to keep up with the BOPs you were supporting....
If you want close to the performance of the Vengeance, the Kurak/T6 Fleet Mogh is closer than the D9, IMO at least. D9 is missing a whole host of goodies the Vengeance has: pets, full Spec, Intel/Eng Commander, two universal BOffs one of which is Temp hybrid. However, the Vengeance is still based on the Arbiter frame, which is based on the Avenger, which was heavily implied to be this universe's answer to the the KT U.S.S. Vengeance since Cryptic couldn't get the rights to it back then, and the Kurak is our version of the Arbiter. Plus, Kurak has Intel/Tac Lt. Comm, which, unlike the D9, it also has a Lt. Comm Uni that can be used to make up even Lt. Comm hybrid spot by being another Tac if need be.
I like the look of the D9, but it's a bit expensive for something on just the basis of looks. It's also rather annoying that the D9 is one of only two T6s that have a TOS look KDF side, whereas the Feds have an entire range of T6 C-Store/Fleet ships that can be made to look TOS, pending they buy the lower-Tier equivalent of that ship anyways.
If you want to play for looks a T5 or Fleet D7 is still certainly capable with the right build for anything in this game.
Hell my AoY character is using a T5 MU Heavy Cruiser, and with the inertia of 30 she feels so much like running a DBB build Vor'cha, and she isn't even a fleet level ship.
The thing with the D9 is I love the console, which I am using on my less used Captains. It with whatever other console boast Phaser, Plasma, and Disruptors, so great for characters who are not fully geared out.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
as a KDF, you should know this, but I'll repeat it anyway...
"Firepower isn't firepower if you can't get it on target."
the Mogh is about as slow as you want to go if you're trying NOT to fly a Fed Beamboat FAW cruiser-and that's a turn rate of 9 base.
Eh, don't worry... most of my other ships are narrow arc DHC/ DBB / Torps for exactly that reason. Plus it's nice to get a 60K parse and know it's with Cannons / Torps so the damage all counted.
I can't say the Temporal D7 feels gimped - it's down 0.5 turn on the Temporal Connie, and certainly works fine with DHCs - it's still got a better turn than the Tor'khat IIRC. Plus it's got intel seating instead of command, and a battle cloak, overall I think it's a more potent vessel. Shame the D9 didn't carry on that pattern.
Well, the previous KDF-specific ships (D4 / D7) do at least have clear claims to be stronger than their C-store / Fleet counterparts; though it's entirely personal whether that extra performance is "worth" the 5x / 10x cost you pay.
The D9 (and indeed all of the 23C dreads) are a letdown in that regard- they really don't do anything that C-store ships can't, with their major appeal being cosmetic. It's still a big appeal, and there does seem to be a steady trickle of D9s turning up around Qo'nos.
we have different analyses. I tend to group things in STO in terms of availabilty. aka something like the D-7 better be better than anything out of the c-store, or it's a flop. not surprisingly, it is.
Edit: Misread your post.
Anyway, I don't like any of the prototype dreadnoughts. I think most of the Undiscovered lock-box stuff is a bit of a grab bag of odds and ends leftover from Agents of Yesterday.
Raiders are one of the big failings of STO. Statistically, there are fabulous T5 and T6 Raiders. But nobody likes to fly ships that pop like a zit, armed with only 6 weapons. The Breen Plesh Brek Raider, Herald Baltim Raider, numerous others out there, fabulous Raider stats that put BOPs to shame. Yet a month after the Plesh Brek was received in one of the Winter Events, nobody flew them anymore. Baltim Raider is amazing, yet I've seen them less than a handful of times. The Temporal Raider from the C-Store? IMHO, simply the best Raider there is in the game, takes the best of the KDF BOPs and simply improves upon it, thrown into the C-Store for an account (not faction) unlock. YOU CAN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT. Yet almost nobody flies it.
The only Raider ship being flown on a regular basis and in significant number? KDF Birds of Prey and guys aren't flying them because they are Raiders. They are flying them because they are BOPs.
The only Raider ship being flown on a regular basis and in significant number? KDF Birds of Prey and guys aren't flying them because they are Raiders. They are flying them because they are BOPs.
Still lookimg for an appropriate and fun ship for my Ferasan Sci, using the Phlesh Brek at the moment actually. Might try the Kazon Raider, or spring for the Baltim Raider. Running Polarized Disruptors with the girl.
I briefly tried the larger Breen Carriers, but just not feeling the love. Ferasan Tact in a JEM HEC, Ferasan Eng in the Breen Battle cruiser.
I use the Kor and Kurak on one of my other KDF tacts.
Temporal Raider, only thing appealing about it is KDG shields to make the Bat-wing...
Of my 13 toons Just my Ferasan Sci and AoY tact are still unsettled on primary and secondary ships.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
Raiders are one of the big failings of STO. Statistically, there are fabulous T5 and T6 Raiders. But nobody likes to fly ships that pop like a zit, armed with only 6 weapons.
6 weapons is plenty if you exploit the BoP's flexibility. This is what people miss; flying a BoP is, and always has been, a distinct approach. It even hit me coming back to the D4 after an extended spell on pilot raptors.
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I think a big chunk of that, is that there's a definite personality/player type that favours "Raiders" and that personality type favours "Bird of Prey" over other forms-even forms with objectively superior stats.
The likewise, I believe, can be said on the subject of actual battlecruisers vs. Cruisers vs. Flight-deck-cruisers. The personality type that favours actual Battlecruisers favour KDF Battlecruisers, and has specific criteria for what that means.
I'll beg to differ, you can enjoy both - I certainly do; I have a soft spot for my FAW-spam heavy battlecruisers, but that does not reduce my affection for DHC cruisers and BoPs at all. If anything, it's good to have some variety.
Where I think you are correct is that to run a non-FAW / Exotic spam build requires a willingness to accept difficulty. Which is pretty much a prerequisite for KDF players .
@patrickngo
Oh I get you completely on the importance of visuals over effectiveness. The single greatest example in a faction ship?
The Fed Eclipse.
That ship is a powerhouse and handles as well as the Qib and Vor'Cha, which is d*mn significant on a Fed Cruiser that can even slot DC/DHC weaponry. Powerful ship, amazing flexible BOFF layout, handles like a KDF Battlecruiser, has a BUILT IN CLOAK ON A FED SHIP. I've sang numerous praises for this ship. But I knew a lot of people wouldn't go for it. It didn't look Starfleet enough.
Having given up my brief attempt to win a Durgath (read: open boxes for Lobi I want for gear) I sold a bunch of R&D packs to buy the D9.
I confess to being pleasantly surprised. Build as an unabashed beam-spamboat, it still handles better than the T6 Bortas class and satisfactorily scratches my itch for a Negh'var style, forward-focused heavy battlecruiser. Unlike the D4 and D7 it's not a big leap from the C-store ships - putting aside my peccadilloes, the Gorkon is a better beamboat at a lower cost and account unlock- but it's still amiably murderous. I will be experimenting with torps and DBBs in due course...
UPDATE: Really rather enjoying this. Set a new DPS record for my Engineer; 65K, nothing to brag about in the scheme of things, but given my general ineptitude as a pilot I'm quite pleased. The To'duj fighters actually did more damage than one of the players in the run! Slotting the faithful tachyokinetic convertor seems to have solved any movement problems.
Comments
Informative analysis as always - thanks! It's certainly not a cost-efficient option, but I'd been wondering if the D9 could be shoehorned into the sort of builds that make the Vengeance class a DPS monster (now there's a ship that needs a KDF copypasta....)
I suspect that I'll probably end up slotting the support consoles on my faithful Negh'tev - there's a scratching in the back of my brain reminding me of ancient PVP days when you needed to keep up with the BOPs you were supporting....
who cares about new hull pieces even. Maybe a new material for a Command and Intel BoP, but the would just be icing.
The D9 is cool for what it is, after all this talk, I would rather have a T6 Sci Bortas.
but just upgrading the ships we have, Klingons have a history of using Hulls and updating interiors for long periods of time.
Updating the other Nausican and Orion ships would be really cool too.
But we don't really need new, we just need improved.
If you want close to the performance of the Vengeance, the Kurak/T6 Fleet Mogh is closer than the D9, IMO at least. D9 is missing a whole host of goodies the Vengeance has: pets, full Spec, Intel/Eng Commander, two universal BOffs one of which is Temp hybrid. However, the Vengeance is still based on the Arbiter frame, which is based on the Avenger, which was heavily implied to be this universe's answer to the the KT U.S.S. Vengeance since Cryptic couldn't get the rights to it back then, and the Kurak is our version of the Arbiter. Plus, Kurak has Intel/Tac Lt. Comm, which, unlike the D9, it also has a Lt. Comm Uni that can be used to make up even Lt. Comm hybrid spot by being another Tac if need be.
I like the look of the D9, but it's a bit expensive for something on just the basis of looks. It's also rather annoying that the D9 is one of only two T6s that have a TOS look KDF side, whereas the Feds have an entire range of T6 C-Store/Fleet ships that can be made to look TOS, pending they buy the lower-Tier equivalent of that ship anyways.
Hell my AoY character is using a T5 MU Heavy Cruiser, and with the inertia of 30 she feels so much like running a DBB build Vor'cha, and she isn't even a fleet level ship.
The thing with the D9 is I love the console, which I am using on my less used Captains. It with whatever other console boast Phaser, Plasma, and Disruptors, so great for characters who are not fully geared out.
Eh, don't worry... most of my other ships are narrow arc DHC/ DBB / Torps for exactly that reason. Plus it's nice to get a 60K parse and know it's with Cannons / Torps so the damage all counted.
I can't say the Temporal D7 feels gimped - it's down 0.5 turn on the Temporal Connie, and certainly works fine with DHCs - it's still got a better turn than the Tor'khat IIRC. Plus it's got intel seating instead of command, and a battle cloak, overall I think it's a more potent vessel. Shame the D9 didn't carry on that pattern.
The D9 (and indeed all of the 23C dreads) are a letdown in that regard- they really don't do anything that C-store ships can't, with their major appeal being cosmetic. It's still a big appeal, and there does seem to be a steady trickle of D9s turning up around Qo'nos.
Anyway, I don't like any of the prototype dreadnoughts. I think most of the Undiscovered lock-box stuff is a bit of a grab bag of odds and ends leftover from Agents of Yesterday.
Well, the Gorkon-class is the KDF's best beam-spam platform, if you like that sort of thing
The only Raider ship being flown on a regular basis and in significant number? KDF Birds of Prey and guys aren't flying them because they are Raiders. They are flying them because they are BOPs.
Still lookimg for an appropriate and fun ship for my Ferasan Sci, using the Phlesh Brek at the moment actually. Might try the Kazon Raider, or spring for the Baltim Raider. Running Polarized Disruptors with the girl.
I briefly tried the larger Breen Carriers, but just not feeling the love. Ferasan Tact in a JEM HEC, Ferasan Eng in the Breen Battle cruiser.
I use the Kor and Kurak on one of my other KDF tacts.
Temporal Raider, only thing appealing about it is KDG shields to make the Bat-wing...
Of my 13 toons Just my Ferasan Sci and AoY tact are still unsettled on primary and secondary ships.
6 weapons is plenty if you exploit the BoP's flexibility. This is what people miss; flying a BoP is, and always has been, a distinct approach. It even hit me coming back to the D4 after an extended spell on pilot raptors.
I'll beg to differ, you can enjoy both - I certainly do; I have a soft spot for my FAW-spam heavy battlecruisers, but that does not reduce my affection for DHC cruisers and BoPs at all. If anything, it's good to have some variety.
Where I think you are correct is that to run a non-FAW / Exotic spam build requires a willingness to accept difficulty. Which is pretty much a prerequisite for KDF players
Oh I get you completely on the importance of visuals over effectiveness. The single greatest example in a faction ship?
The Fed Eclipse.
That ship is a powerhouse and handles as well as the Qib and Vor'Cha, which is d*mn significant on a Fed Cruiser that can even slot DC/DHC weaponry. Powerful ship, amazing flexible BOFF layout, handles like a KDF Battlecruiser, has a BUILT IN CLOAK ON A FED SHIP. I've sang numerous praises for this ship. But I knew a lot of people wouldn't go for it. It didn't look Starfleet enough.
Having given up my brief attempt to win a Durgath (read: open boxes for Lobi I want for gear) I sold a bunch of R&D packs to buy the D9.
I confess to being pleasantly surprised. Build as an unabashed beam-spamboat, it still handles better than the T6 Bortas class and satisfactorily scratches my itch for a Negh'var style, forward-focused heavy battlecruiser. Unlike the D4 and D7 it's not a big leap from the C-store ships - putting aside my peccadilloes, the Gorkon is a better beamboat at a lower cost and account unlock- but it's still amiably murderous. I will be experimenting with torps and DBBs in due course...
UPDATE: Really rather enjoying this. Set a new DPS record for my Engineer; 65K, nothing to brag about in the scheme of things, but given my general ineptitude as a pilot I'm quite pleased. The To'duj fighters actually did more damage than one of the players in the run! Slotting the faithful tachyokinetic convertor seems to have solved any movement problems.