.
.
.
There was no other way, given the tight time constraints..
Thanks for your input; fell in love with your work ever since I got that apartment for my CO hero
That line I singled out. IMO the most grievous problem of Cryptic as a whole and for me as a long time fan the major reason I'd rather wait and ask myself at least 5 times if I buy something or not. Your guys talent as seen in the visuals and dedication to lore as seen in the stories is unquestionable great but oh boy, you get whipped to push stuff out and have to race to the next shiny thing like there is no tomorrow quick and dirty style; and it shows in the thousand papercuts STO has.
I think we (artists/designers/etc.) always want to take more time and more care in everything we do. The time constraints are kind of part of the game though. We build things on a timeline, because that's where we can afford to do it. While the crafts-people would love to take more time, that more time is also more expense. Putting in that time doesn't always yield appropriate returns. So, we rely on our production team to know where that line lies. Sometimes we push a little too far in one direction or the other. Sometimes I'm amazed that I was given the amount of time I was to accomplish something, and it clearly paid off. Sometimes I'm frustrated that I didn't have enough time to do something 'right.'
But in the end, we have a good game, and 7 years later, we're STILL going.
If we always got all the time we (Art/Design/Players/Etc.) wanted to put into something, that probably wouldn't be the case.
I think we (artists/designers/etc.) always want to take more time and more care in everything we do. The time constraints are kind of part of the game though. We build things on a timeline, because that's where we can afford to do it. While the crafts-people would love to take more time, that more time is also more expense. Putting in that time doesn't always yield appropriate returns. So, we rely on our production team to know where that line lies. Sometimes we push a little too far in one direction or the other. Sometimes I'm amazed that I was given the amount of time I was to accomplish something, and it clearly paid off. Sometimes I'm frustrated that I didn't have enough time to do something 'right.'
But in the end, we have a good game, and 7 years later, we're STILL going.
If we always got all the time we (Art/Design/Players/Etc.) wanted to put into something, that probably wouldn't be the case.
Thank a producer.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself. I always seem to keep tweaking my art here and there until someone or myself finally says, "Enough!" Otherwise, I'd probably never finish it to my complete satisfaction. LOL. But you guys are doing great work and it shows. I keep looking forward to the next great new thing or revamp to something old. Here's to hoping they finally give you time to revamping DS9. Thanks, @tacofangs
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I checked almost every important map in full settings in 2.0 lighting. It is without any doubt huge improvement to what was before. Granted, some ship bridges maps may have visual bugs, but improvements are great and outnumber those by far.
What some people maybe experiencing is that they are trying to have lighting 2.0 on Dx9 cards or that their Dx11 cards are not rendering in Dx11(had same problem, needed to manually switch to Dx11 in Display options and restart)
Also, guys, for better image quality for screenshots besides full settings go in to tighter FOV type without brackets in chat window:
( /setregionfov ground 15) (-150) or ( /setregionfov space 15) (-150) where 15 is tightest angle with highest quality and full zoom, and 150 angle is just extreme fly-on-the-wall view angle.
WARNING: tight angle like 15-35 make it hard use in fighting situations, so make sure you dial it back when playing episodes.
For even better image quality go and supersample it : ( /renderscale 1.50) for example. This will render game internally at higher resolution and basically supersample it down to your display resolution. This method is the BEST form of antialiasing so you don't need to have MSAA, TXAA or FXAA enabled at the same time.
WARNING: Very taxing on hardware, so if your GFX card can't handle it you will have a slideshow on higher resolutions, try lower value first, like 1.20.
Some people could experience foggy game as i see from these screenshots, here helps to make sure that ( /highqualityDOF) is set to 0) This ¸value set to 1 basically makes ESD especially (and other maps) to foggy mess.
So try that as well if you notice strange things.
For the rest, I will again say that looking different is not the same as looking bad. Right now, you have people complaining that ESD isn't completely blue inside anymore. I think in a year or two, you'll look back at old screenshots of ESD and cringe. But right now, people are used to what they're used to, and something changed. People don't like change, and it takes them a while to adapt. That's the period we're in now.
Images posted from the bridges above are not a matter of 'getting used to;' those bridges are simply broken. Granted, you said those will be fixed. But will the rest get fixed too? Fleet starbase has severely degraded too (see images I posted): everything has become a shiny surface, from floors to transporter walls, with big light sources washing out a lot of detail (look, for instance, at the Federation emblem on the floor, right when you exit the transporter). And the Dilithium Mine has now been enshrouded in a pink haze, again with a lot of loss of detail.
Honestly, if the majority of the game stayed looking roughly like it was, and a handful of maps look worse, but I now have many more options for lighting things in better, more interesting ways, I am 100% ok with that..
Frankly, that's precisely the worry I expressed: that you guys will at some point just 'call it the day,' and too bad for the rest of the maps.
Also, a handful out of a few thousand sounds like you'll rarely encounter those maps. But when that handful are your bridges, then you're constantly running into them.
You will not see the day anytime soon, where all 1000+ maps have been hand touched up by an artist. But I also think that's perfectly fine.
See, in my book, that would be a good reason to cancel 2.0 then. As I'm fond of saying, I Devs should conform to the Hippocratic Oath: above all, do no harm!
See, in my book, that would be a good reason to cancel 2.0 then. As I'm fond of saying, I Devs should conform to the Hippocratic Oath: above all, do no harm!
That doesn't make sense, and no game development works on that idea.
Medicine doesn't really follow it that far either.
I think we (artists/designers/etc.) always want to take more time and more care in everything we do. The time constraints are kind of part of the game though. We build things on a timeline, because that's where we can afford to do it. While the crafts-people would love to take more time, that more time is also more expense. Putting in that time doesn't always yield appropriate returns. So, we rely on our production team to know where that line lies. Sometimes we push a little too far in one direction or the other. Sometimes I'm amazed that I was given the amount of time I was to accomplish something, and it clearly paid off. Sometimes I'm frustrated that I didn't have enough time to do something 'right.'
But in the end, we have a good game, and 7 years later, we're STILL going.
If we always got all the time we (Art/Design/Players/Etc.) wanted to put into something, that probably wouldn't be the case.
Thank a producer.
Well, in my experience, you'll find more things to do if you do find time to do what you want.
There has been an issue with the lens flares on the Vengence bridge with 2.0. That's been sorted out. They should no longer be drawing through walls. But we also can't draw all of them at once. So it'll draw the ones nearby instead of everything.
Caveat: Thanks for posting and thanks for all the work you do.
However, this comment made me giggle. The irony that a Kelvin Timeline ship is having massive lighting issues due to lens flares is just awesome!
I hope you guys get it fixed, but thanks for posting that! Totally made my weekend!
This does *not* look fine. Period. The floor with the Federation emblem is totally washed out, my face looks wrapped in plastic, and the transporter walls are way too shiny. These things simply need to be acknowledged and reported, lest they stay thay way for ever.
As for the dilithium mine, it SHOULD be in a pink haze, its a dilithium MINE, with pink energy beams throughout it. Mines are, by their nature, dusty, hazy, and otherwise not as perfectly clean as 1.0 had it.
You're stretching to be right. The Mine, where the actual crystals are, is below the closed-off, (partly) glass floor: the part we're entering is just the 'shop' part of it, with cafeteria and all above it. It's by no means supposed to be filled with a pink dust. That's just 2.0 gone horribly awry; and you know it.
It's obvious that some bridge maps, especially those with older textures, look worse than before. But I'm currently leveling a new char and I'm absolutely stunned by how good many of the mission ground maps look right now. For every one map that looks worse you could easily find at least 10 that look far better.
It really is a trade off. but other than visuals, my main concern with them using 2.0 exclusively would be that a lot of people would have to stop playing because of the loading bug that's seemingly tied to it. Can't play if you can't get into the game. Mine does goofy things when 2.0 is on, and to be honest I don't usually realize it IS on until problems occur. I have the settings turned down to increase the performance with some instances, so a lot of the 'little extras' don't even show up with either version unless I turn them back up.
It really is a trade off. but other than visuals, my main concern with them using 2.0 exclusively would be that a lot of people would have to stop playing because of the loading bug that's seemingly tied to it. Can't play if you can't get into the game. Mine does goofy things when 2.0 is on, and to be honest I don't usually realize it IS on until problems occur. I have the settings turned down to increase the performance with some instances, so a lot of the 'little extras' don't even show up with either version unless I turn them back up.
There are some settings you can change in the launcher options that might fix that.
I may have to reset my settings. will look into it later.
also depends on the ship... like some romulan one put out a monster glare but other vessels dont.... that said Ive never seen it pitch black like your screenie
I'll look at it tomorrow. My contrast may be off. I can't remember if I reset everything after I had to do a hard reinstall or not. thinking more about sleep right now than anything else, but can't remember if I did or not.
Here's the re-updated lighting on the bridges mentioned above.
Again, please keep in mind that we are not always trying, nor can we 100% replicate 1.0's lighting. We're just looking for decent lighting in both modes. It still does, and always will look different between 1.0 and 2.0.
There are also a number of material differences you will see between 1.0 & 2.0 (notably the Vaadwaur viewscreen) these are not changes in lighting, there's something about how the material is being handled, and will have to be investigated separately.
The Fed & Klg Timeship bridges were also updated, but I was lazy and figured one was enough of a representative here. The Galor bridge was also touched up, but isn't looking right yet, so I left it out of the below comparisons.
You have no idea how glad I am to see fixes applied to old stuff. New stuff is great, but we spend most of our time looking at what we already have. Perhaps the KDF Starbase next?
@tacofangs, I have to admit that Lighting 2.0 is rapidly becoming vastly superior to the old 1.0 incarnation of the light system. I had my reservations -- and those were primarily based on very broken stuff, and what I perceived as an unwillingness to fix those. Now that you've taken the time to fix the most egregious errors, though, 2.0 is better, much better, almost everywhere. You even fixed the Dilithium Mine.
Comments
Thanks for your input; fell in love with your work ever since I got that apartment for my CO hero
That line I singled out. IMO the most grievous problem of Cryptic as a whole and for me as a long time fan the major reason I'd rather wait and ask myself at least 5 times if I buy something or not. Your guys talent as seen in the visuals and dedication to lore as seen in the stories is unquestionable great but oh boy, you get whipped to push stuff out and have to race to the next shiny thing like there is no tomorrow quick and dirty style; and it shows in the thousand papercuts STO has.
But in the end, we have a good game, and 7 years later, we're STILL going.
If we always got all the time we (Art/Design/Players/Etc.) wanted to put into something, that probably wouldn't be the case.
Thank a producer.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself. I always seem to keep tweaking my art here and there until someone or myself finally says, "Enough!" Otherwise, I'd probably never finish it to my complete satisfaction. LOL. But you guys are doing great work and it shows. I keep looking forward to the next great new thing or revamp to something old. Here's to hoping they finally give you time to revamping DS9.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
What some people maybe experiencing is that they are trying to have lighting 2.0 on Dx9 cards or that their Dx11 cards are not rendering in Dx11(had same problem, needed to manually switch to Dx11 in Display options and restart)
Also, guys, for better image quality for screenshots besides full settings go in to tighter FOV type without brackets in chat window:
( /setregionfov ground 15) (-150) or ( /setregionfov space 15) (-150) where 15 is tightest angle with highest quality and full zoom, and 150 angle is just extreme fly-on-the-wall view angle.
WARNING: tight angle like 15-35 make it hard use in fighting situations, so make sure you dial it back when playing episodes.
For even better image quality go and supersample it : ( /renderscale 1.50) for example. This will render game internally at higher resolution and basically supersample it down to your display resolution. This method is the BEST form of antialiasing so you don't need to have MSAA, TXAA or FXAA enabled at the same time.
WARNING: Very taxing on hardware, so if your GFX card can't handle it you will have a slideshow on higher resolutions, try lower value first, like 1.20.
Some people could experience foggy game as i see from these screenshots, here helps to make sure that ( /highqualityDOF) is set to 0) This ¸value set to 1 basically makes ESD especially (and other maps) to foggy mess.
So try that as well if you notice strange things.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Images posted from the bridges above are not a matter of 'getting used to;' those bridges are simply broken. Granted, you said those will be fixed. But will the rest get fixed too? Fleet starbase has severely degraded too (see images I posted): everything has become a shiny surface, from floors to transporter walls, with big light sources washing out a lot of detail (look, for instance, at the Federation emblem on the floor, right when you exit the transporter). And the Dilithium Mine has now been enshrouded in a pink haze, again with a lot of loss of detail.
Frankly, that's precisely the worry I expressed: that you guys will at some point just 'call it the day,' and too bad for the rest of the maps.
Also, a handful out of a few thousand sounds like you'll rarely encounter those maps. But when that handful are your bridges, then you're constantly running into them.
See, in my book, that would be a good reason to cancel 2.0 then.
My character Tsin'xing
Caveat: Thanks for posting and thanks for all the work you do.
However, this comment made me giggle. The irony that a Kelvin Timeline ship is having massive lighting issues due to lens flares is just awesome!
I hope you guys get it fixed, but thanks for posting that! Totally made my weekend!
Do they?! Seriously, people, I get y'all want to support the Dev, but can we please keep some objectivity?!
imgur.com/a/BlkCf
This does *not* look fine. Period. The floor with the Federation emblem is totally washed out, my face looks wrapped in plastic, and the transporter walls are way too shiny. These things simply need to be acknowledged and reported, lest they stay thay way for ever.
You're stretching to be right. The Mine, where the actual crystals are, is below the closed-off, (partly) glass floor: the part we're entering is just the 'shop' part of it, with cafeteria and all above it. It's by no means supposed to be filled with a pink dust. That's just 2.0 gone horribly awry; and you know it.
My character Tsin'xing
yes the base needs some tweaks but it's fine. No, its not great, but "looks good and is workable for now"
My opinion is it looks better. It has a few issues, but we know that already.
background looks great. wish there was a filter to get rid of the 'plastic' look though.
anyway, here's a great example of 2.0 on (left side) and 2.0 off (right side):
Lighting 1.0:
Lighting 2.0:
I may have to reset my settings. will look into it later.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
My character Tsin'xing
also depends on the ship... like some romulan one put out a monster glare but other vessels dont.... that said Ive never seen it pitch black like your screenie
Night, peeps. pillow calls.
My contrast was off.
forgot to check it after reinstall.
still, the pic comparison does show that there are two different light sources.
Did you fix it?, i have the same problem in my main PC, my notebook does not have this problem
Again, please keep in mind that we are not always trying, nor can we 100% replicate 1.0's lighting. We're just looking for decent lighting in both modes. It still does, and always will look different between 1.0 and 2.0.
There are also a number of material differences you will see between 1.0 & 2.0 (notably the Vaadwaur viewscreen) these are not changes in lighting, there's something about how the material is being handled, and will have to be investigated separately.
The Fed & Klg Timeship bridges were also updated, but I was lazy and figured one was enough of a representative here. The Galor bridge was also touched up, but isn't looking right yet, so I left it out of the below comparisons.
Kobali Bridge previously:
Kobali Bridge now:
Romulan Bridge previously:
Romulan Bridge now:
Romulan Timeship Bridge before:
Romulan Timeship Bridge now:
Tuffli Freighter Bridge before:
Tuffli Freighter Bridge now:
Vaadwaur Bridge before:
Vaadwaur Bridge now:
Vorgon Bridge before:
Vorgon Bridge now:
Voyager Bridge before:
Voyager Bridge now:
I think 1 looks good with some and 2 looks good with others.
Just wanted to say that.