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Exothermic DOFFs and Endothermic Modules from the Winter Event Store

drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
edited December 2016 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Simple question for those in the know, does the Exothermic BOFFs (Geologist, Charol from Summer Event, Halla Vuk from wheverever) buffs to Exothermic Induction Field apply to the Endothermic Induction Field?
Post edited by drakethewhite on

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    boachevboachev Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    It's a question I was too afraid to ask.

    My gut says "no", but I'd like to be pleasantly proven wrong.
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    duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    Why afraid? The simple answer is that, no it doesn't (at least as far as I could tell.) Sometimes analogous kit powers are buffed by the same doffs (ex. Turrets) but other times that's not the case (ex. Drones). You've just got to check case by case.
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    nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Great question...
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    Why afraid? The simple answer is that, no it doesn't (at least as far as I could tell.) Sometimes analogous kit powers are buffed by the same doffs (ex. Turrets) but other times that's not the case (ex. Drones). You've just got to check case by case.

    People are always afraid to look stupid or get chastised by the community for asking a question that may have an obvious answer.
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    boachevboachev Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    Great question...
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    Why afraid? The simple answer is that, no it doesn't (at least as far as I could tell.) Sometimes analogous kit powers are buffed by the same doffs (ex. Turrets) but other times that's not the case (ex. Drones). You've just got to check case by case.

    People are always afraid to look stupid or get chastised by the community for asking a question that may have an obvious answer.

    Aye, I've had people jump down my throat a few times before for asking questions in STO. Now I tend to just sit back and see if I can dig up the answer myself, with varying degrees of success.

    But thanks for the answer, @duncanidaho11! Now I know... though I still plan to use some of those. The Endothermic space skill I do know is still effected by all other exotic damage and deflector stuff, and that's something I definitely can (and want) to take advantage of.
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    officerbatman81officerbatman81 Member Posts: 2,761 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    What is an exothermic boff? Or do you mean Doff?
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I think he means the doffs that reduce the CD of that skill
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    drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    I think he means the doffs that reduce the CD of that skill

    Yes indeed, corrected the title.
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    askatusaskatus Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    According to the tooltips at least, none of those DOffs work on the endothermic module, not the root effect from Charal, nor the cooldown reductions, nor the explosive projectiles. I'm sure at least some of these used to work but I guess they've been patched out.
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Considering the fact that endothermic and exothermic are opposites, it would both make no sense at all, and make a lot of sense - after all, to be on opposite ends, you have to be in the same field. Still, within the logic of PC games I would always venture to go for "no" with such a question. Still a valid one.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    *looks at it in-game* Well, I do know that Endo at least benefits from the resist debuff doffs. The Risians that root don't seem to work. The CD reduction doffs apparently don't work with Endo either.
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Your Character cannot equip Kit Modules Endothermic and Exothermic at the same time. Why not? Perhaps the game treats them as the same thing and as you cannot slot two of the same type Modules into your frame. It is a no go. If that is the case then the Doffs should work, but they don't. So is there an inconsistentcy there?

    Which then leads me to why doesn't the Na'kuhl Daemosh Science Vessel's Ultimate Ship Mastery, Scavenger Beam, buff Tractor Beam Repulsors as it does Tractor Beam? Just a Tractor Beam that pushes instead of pulls. What about with Graga Mal? He converts TBR to pull.
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Your Character cannot equip Kit Modules Endothermic and Exothermic at the same time. Why not? Perhaps the game treats them as the same thing and as you cannot slot two of the same type Modules into your frame. It is a no go. If that is the case then the Doffs should work, but they don't. So is there an inconsistentcy there?

    Well, since they are opposite things, it may just not be logical for them to function simultaneously at all. Depending on the technobabble what apart from the names there is actually going on, which I don't know.
    ltminns wrote: »
    Which then leads me to why doesn't the Na'kuhl Daemosh Science Vessel's Ultimate Ship Mastery, Scavenger Beam, buff Tractor Beam Repulsors as it does Tractor Beam? Just a Tractor Beam that pushes instead of pulls. What about with Graga Mal? He converts TBR to pull.

    From different things mentioned here, it seems that Tractor Beam and Tractor Repulsor operate on different technologies. Which makes the TBR-invertor a bit iffy, and again I don't know the technobabble behind it all.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Which then leads me to why doesn't the Na'kuhl Daemosh Science Vessel's Ultimate Ship Mastery, Scavenger Beam, buff Tractor Beam Repulsors as it does Tractor Beam? Just a Tractor Beam that pushes instead of pulls. What about with Graga Mal? He converts TBR to pull.


    Tractor Beam Repulsors and Tractor Beam are different abilities in game too, so why should a doff/Trait that buffs one also buff the other?! Graga Mal doesn't affect the Tractor Beam ability either.

    Thematically, TB and TBR should be in the same group, yes; but they're not.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    a lot of things that are similar will use doffs though. But it's based on level of similarity. For ground, usually things that you have to choose between are that similar. For example: Hyperonic Radiation, and Neutronic, the various upgraded mortars and turrets. The Herald overcharge is a great example here since it's a placeable but not similar enough to replace either. You don't have to choose between it and regular turrets and it doesn't benefit from doffs.
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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I am going to be 'that guy' mention that not only are "exotherminc" and "endothermic" different... they're exact opposites :sweat_smile:.

    Now, if a Doff said it affected "all thermal effects", I'd be running tests to verify that's true. 'Cause you might be on to something awesome there :).
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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    ltminns wrote: »
    Which then leads me to why doesn't the Na'kuhl Daemosh Science Vessel's Ultimate Ship Mastery, Scavenger Beam, buff Tractor Beam Repulsors as it does Tractor Beam? Just a Tractor Beam that pushes instead of pulls. What about with Graga Mal? He converts TBR to pull.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Tractor Beam Repulsors and Tractor Beam are different abilities in game too, so why should a doff/Trait that buffs one also buff the other?! Graga Mal doesn't affect the Tractor Beam ability either.

    Thematically, TB and TBR should be in the same group, yes; but they're not.

    I don't think we're looking at a huge failure of in-game logic that its hard to snatch parts and spare nuts-n-bolts off an enemy ship with a beam that pushes stuff away ;). That's kind of an important "just a" you're throwing around. Like saying "Please push the salt away from me so I can use it to season my vegies." You may encounter some difficulty with that.

    Now, if they coded things so the inverted repulsors did work with the Scavenger Beam trait... that would be hi-larious :).

    But if you really need a fridge-logic explanation, I'd say Scavenger Beam represents some amazingly precision work. And the difference between Scavenger Beam tactics on normal tractor beams and inverted repulsors is like the difference between a pickpocket and a cattle drive: namely, subtlety.

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    wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Exothermic_Induction_Field
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Science_Kit_Module_-_Endothermic_Induction_Field
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I don't think we're looking at a huge failure of in-game logic that its hard to snatch parts and spare nuts-n-bolts off an enemy ship with a beam that pushes stuff away ;). That's kind of an important "just a" you're throwing around. Like saying "Please push the salt away from me so I can use it to season my vegies." You may encounter some difficulty with that.

    I was thinking along the same lines (not too surprising since we already did that with the endo-exo-difference, where I was thinking of another example: you wouldn't think a medication helping you against hypertension would also help against hypotension.), but the description of the trait and its effects actually don't need a pull vs push distinction. The name does, certainly.
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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    ((tips hat)) Yeah, on closer reading of the thread, you beat me to the exo/endo joke by several hours :).

    The game treats hit points (and many other things) like some sort of magic liquid you can just move around in technobabble cups. But names have power, and "scavenger beam" seems like a pretty clear statement of design intent/what's being modeled.

    And sounds bad*** too :). Never underestimate the value of evocative language in game design!
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