Proof that the "I value constructive criticism" portion of the post is part of the dog and pony show, not an actual belief.
You are not giving constructive criticism, all you and kjfett do is go to each forum post you can find and whine about your precious powercreep and "DPS scale". Because you don't understand how players get high dps, doesn't mean that PWE did something to help increase it. Have you considered that other players simply have a deeper understanding of the game mechanics which lets them have higher dps than you?
And this is not the point of the thread.
I'm not ripping on someone who's BFaW skills and manipulation of the various categories of bonuses and proper positioning/timing/etc. in ISA honed with 7 years of practice or whatever is leading them to get.
I am complaining, however, that I see a post under the heading "save our fleets" that contained no direct commentary on what the "issues" with fleets are, but is laden with "give bonuses that directly affect DPS in an easily visible way that does not require poking around with the deep understandings of category two vs. category one beam weapon multipliers...
And that bugs me. Let the DPS lords who obsess over category bonuses have their high DPS numbers - the matter that they're able to handily score 17x the "mean" DPS is another matter, for another thread.
(aimed at me)
I never wrote fleets have some big issues. I wrote old fleets should be honered for the time and work so it would be a pleasure for everybody to be a part of it and join them. Thats all I wrote. Create your own fleet whenever you want to but some years ago, fleets took on an important role in the game. There were highly well known fleets. Now you have toons in different fleets, nobody knows the name of. So why I called it "old" fleets, because "new" fleets do not have a big name in the whole universe for now, because they are obviously new.
So whats going wrong by honor fleets because of their long existence? STO honors players, because they become veteran. I read many words but no point, why it is wrong. There is no need for writing "There is an other fact" and you do not start to write the fact. It is easy to say something is wrong and dont explain why it is wrong. For now you are against it, because you are against it. This is no discussion.
The very thing I was calling for, a description of the "issues". Thank your for your time, Marco23h...
And, shockingly, it is quite different than what I was expecting... Partially because I saw nothing of this sort in the original post (lost in translation, maybe?), partially because the thread title seemingly indicated otherwise - that something needed "saving", not "honoring"...
And what I'm seeing hinges on one statement in this above quote. Separating it for effective address:
some years ago, fleets took on an important role in the game. There were highly well known fleets. Now you have toons in different fleets, nobody knows the name of.
The "measurement" of how well known a given fleet is happens to be called, if I'm not mistaken on intent again, prestige. OP wants to "honor" the old, "highly prestigious" fleets with some sort of "veterancy" system...
Which brings up a plethora of other concerns. Such as:
How do you ensure that the entire playerbase is able to access these rewards if the player so desires?
How do you determine which fleets are "worthy" of the reward? I mean, it's not like a fleet that's existed for, oh, 1,000 days is automatically a prestigious fleet, my "little personal fleet" is just such an example, having a build date back in 2012, so it's definitely cleared this 1,000 day threshold. So there's definitely going to be some sort of "judgement" being applied. Who's?
How do you ultimately reconcile the system? To be prestigious, the members of fleet X all have to share a certain trait (specifically, the trait that the fleet is known for) - yet, to ensure that all players who want the bonus gets it, some fleets will be "forced" to accept members who barely demonstrate - or outright flaunt - the trait that earned them the prestige in the first place.
And why combat bonuses? Wouldn't a few "trinkets" - golden fleet name, optional gold fleet insignia borders on uniforms, yet another "Unique" ship material, etc. be much "better" ways to honor these "prestigious fleets"? Mainly because it's a lot easier to say "you can't have a pretty gold border, it doesn't hamper your gameplay" than doing so with combat bonuses that everyone thinks they "deserve" (whether "rightfully" or not...)
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The good thing about the Vanilla Forums is that the OP can change the Thread Subject. Like replacing 'Honoring' for 'Saving' and such.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In "honoring" fleets, as I understand this, you would be segragating those fleets from all the other ones. In so doing, compund the problems that small and mid-sized fleets have now in areas such as recruitment. Many of a fleet's new recruits are just alts of already established players.
Let's face the fact here that any person who is "shopping" for a fleet to join will simply go for one that has the most shineys. In this case, the "veteran" perks you seem to be pushing for.
@dareau has an excellent idea in suggesting a costume piece or a colored fleet name instead of adding a combat bonus. But still, people will want to join these "veteran" fleets solely for that purpose... Space Barbie and all that.
The problem I see is in the system itself... adding another layer of segregation to an already messed up system will only compound the current issues with fleets as I see it.
-AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- ProjectPhoenix Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Comments
And this is not the point of the thread.
I'm not ripping on someone who's BFaW skills and manipulation of the various categories of bonuses and proper positioning/timing/etc. in ISA honed with 7 years of practice or whatever is leading them to get.
I am complaining, however, that I see a post under the heading "save our fleets" that contained no direct commentary on what the "issues" with fleets are, but is laden with "give bonuses that directly affect DPS in an easily visible way that does not require poking around with the deep understandings of category two vs. category one beam weapon multipliers...
And that bugs me. Let the DPS lords who obsess over category bonuses have their high DPS numbers - the matter that they're able to handily score 17x the "mean" DPS is another matter, for another thread.
Meanwhile:
The very thing I was calling for, a description of the "issues". Thank your for your time, Marco23h...
And, shockingly, it is quite different than what I was expecting... Partially because I saw nothing of this sort in the original post (lost in translation, maybe?), partially because the thread title seemingly indicated otherwise - that something needed "saving", not "honoring"...
And what I'm seeing hinges on one statement in this above quote. Separating it for effective address:
The "measurement" of how well known a given fleet is happens to be called, if I'm not mistaken on intent again, prestige. OP wants to "honor" the old, "highly prestigious" fleets with some sort of "veterancy" system...
Which brings up a plethora of other concerns. Such as:
How do you ensure that the entire playerbase is able to access these rewards if the player so desires?
How do you determine which fleets are "worthy" of the reward? I mean, it's not like a fleet that's existed for, oh, 1,000 days is automatically a prestigious fleet, my "little personal fleet" is just such an example, having a build date back in 2012, so it's definitely cleared this 1,000 day threshold. So there's definitely going to be some sort of "judgement" being applied. Who's?
How do you ultimately reconcile the system? To be prestigious, the members of fleet X all have to share a certain trait (specifically, the trait that the fleet is known for) - yet, to ensure that all players who want the bonus gets it, some fleets will be "forced" to accept members who barely demonstrate - or outright flaunt - the trait that earned them the prestige in the first place.
And why combat bonuses? Wouldn't a few "trinkets" - golden fleet name, optional gold fleet insignia borders on uniforms, yet another "Unique" ship material, etc. be much "better" ways to honor these "prestigious fleets"? Mainly because it's a lot easier to say "you can't have a pretty gold border, it doesn't hamper your gameplay" than doing so with combat bonuses that everyone thinks they "deserve" (whether "rightfully" or not...)
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In "honoring" fleets, as I understand this, you would be segragating those fleets from all the other ones. In so doing, compund the problems that small and mid-sized fleets have now in areas such as recruitment. Many of a fleet's new recruits are just alts of already established players.
Let's face the fact here that any person who is "shopping" for a fleet to join will simply go for one that has the most shineys. In this case, the "veteran" perks you seem to be pushing for.
@dareau has an excellent idea in suggesting a costume piece or a colored fleet name instead of adding a combat bonus. But still, people will want to join these "veteran" fleets solely for that purpose... Space Barbie and all that.
The problem I see is in the system itself... adding another layer of segregation to an already messed up system will only compound the current issues with fleets as I see it.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010