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Comparing Carriers
cuchulainn74
Member Posts: 831 Arc User
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I was looking at current exchange prices and ship stats last night, and noticed something curious. For $400mil you can buy the new JHDC. Or, for a good $50mil less you can buy both the Vonph and the Baltim to have as frigate pets. Stats wise, the Vonph looks pretty on par with the JHDC, too. And I know the Baltim is a solid pet.
So the question is, has anybody done a real comparison of game performance between the two? Even with bug ship frigates, which would insanely tip the cost equation even more, I suspect they're pretty close.
I was looking at current exchange prices and ship stats last night, and noticed something curious. For $400mil you can buy the new JHDC. Or, for a good $50mil less you can buy both the Vonph and the Baltim to have as frigate pets. Stats wise, the Vonph looks pretty on par with the JHDC, too. And I know the Baltim is a solid pet.
So the question is, has anybody done a real comparison of game performance between the two? Even with bug ship frigates, which would insanely tip the cost equation even more, I suspect they're pretty close.
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The JHDC is more engineering focused than the Vonph, having a fixed LTC Engineer and more engineering consoles, while the Vonph has a stronger Science focus with its fixed LTC Science seat and greater number of science consoles. Counter-intuitive to this is that the JHDC gets an Aux power boost while the Vonph gets a Shield power boost. I would argue that these facts combined with the Command seating on the JHDC makes it somewhat bulkier than the Vonph at the trade-off of the potential firepower from the Intel seat the Vonph has access to.
I think the Vonph is designed around playing a bit more of a support role. Its consoles and greater availability of strong science abilities (lack of Aux power buff not withstanding) lean more towards being able to assist other players with heals, as its turn rate is rather low to be using most offensive Science abilities, and its ship trait functions best if you aren't the one absorbing damage. The JHDC seems geared more towards getting the most out of its pets, as the Aux power it gets improves pet recharge timers and its ship trait improves their damage output. Of course the ship trait doesn't have to be used with the ship, but it's usually an indication of how the ship was designed. Both should be very potent damage dealers and/or tanks, but I have to imagine the expected play style out of each will be at least a bit different.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
As for the T6 JHDC, it's new at T6 and has a skin canonical to DS9. Anyone that wanted one, but didn't have one prior to Delta Rising has likely been holding off, as T5 is seen as obsolete nowadays, so there's pent up demand and limited supply. Being a canon ship is nice, and I have a tiny model from a desk game of the Jem'Hadar Cruiser, which is the JHDC in game. Performance wise, I don't see anything that'd set the world on fire, or give me significant reason to upgrade from my T5 JHDC.
Oh, no question the JHDC is easier on the eyes than the Vonph, yeah. I just thought it was funny how drastic the skew in prices were. It's unfair to compare the Bug ship with the Baltim, too, since the Baltim is a Lobi ship. But again, a player on a budget could get pretty close performance for so much less.
Looks like it should be fixed today.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
I equipped it with two flights of Elite Obelisk Swarmers. It did very well. The Boff layout gives you the opportunity of having plenty of Tac spots (Commander and Ensign) and plenty of Science (could have two Lt. Commander).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm actually a little scared off buying it now, after some of the reviews and shakedown videos complain at length about how hard it is to see anything but the ship on screen. But I may still give it a shot, with a Sci build and Baltim frigates.
Okay, I think that's probably comfort enough for me. I'm going to go ahead and give it a shot. I've really been wanting to fully explore a Carrier based character and build. I've tinkered with carriers before, but never a real focused build.
The prospect of finally getting a T6 Narcine is dizzying.
Doing 'Delta Flight' with it was ok, I just kept moving forward. By the end you will find that Paris can become just as annoying as Kurland with his constant interruptions. Good thing there is only one reward worth getting in that Mission.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Ah, good old Clown Carrier. That combo is worth flying just for the hilarious sight of the carrier disgorging ships that are almost as big as itself.
And as comparing all other carriers go,
Tholian Reclues with elite widows = Tetryon beams, tetryon beams everywhere!
Although probably not the most optimal carrier, it is still fun to look at.
I have traditionally been a hardcore Carrier enthusiast. I have across several characters:
Kar'Fi
Vo'Quv
T5 and now T6 JHDC
Adv.Obelisk
Vonph
Atrox
Jupiter
Both the Vonph and T6 JHDC are excellent Carriers but for very different reasons.
The T6 JHDC is "old school" TAC oriented Carrier with a secondary slant towards ENG. Very Pew-Pew oriented and tough as nails. The T5 version I loved to all hell and she was my go-to PVP Carrier back in the day. I had no problems taking on multiple Feds with her: Tough, tough, TOUGH. The T6 version is still just as rugged but you got some more flexibility now with a stronger Universal seat and Hybrid seating. She naturally leans to a very high TAC ability count, so there is no lack of space for expensive TAC BOFF abilities.
The Vonph? She is TAC oriented but unlike the JHDC, has a secondary slant towards Science. Not as tough as the JHDC but I never blow up with Vonph... It depends on how you build. While JHDC is easy to excel in traditional, pure TAC capabiity, Vonph can excel in the "newer" way with meshing Tactical + Science to have damage capability. This is done by a mix of traits, specialization, etc.
Their Frigates?... Traditionally, people have long pursued the JHDC+JHAS playable ship combo to have the JHAS Frigates for their JHDC. It's... alright. Frigates, especially those reliant on narrow arc weaponry, aren't all that reliable, IMO, because they waste too much time with those narrow arc weapons pointed the wrong way.
Vonph with Baltim Raiders? Personally, though I have a KDF character with all the Herald Ships, I didn't go for the Baltim Frigates and went for the Elite Mir Fighters. The Baltims should do fine, unlike most other Frigates they're beam oriented and look rather attractive as Frigates with their capability. But I wanted the Elite Mir because you get more craft in the air and I also like their "Impact" ramming attacks for direct hull damage, on top of also having their transphasic torpedoes. It's awesome when you launch your Mirs and they all start making their "Impact" ramming runs (and don't die in the process either when they hit), all while firing their weapons.
I drop gravwell and vortex, pop the Ambush Gateway, and start letting loose PBAoE powers. Have you tried that approach? Does it strand your pets too far from the fight? I'll be tinkering with it this weekend.
Considering my son picked up a Narcine for 67.5m last night, even at T5 it's got some serious bang for the buck going. I was tempted to get one myself, but I have sooooo many ships already
When I first tried the Vonph, it indeed was with the full console set and all the gimmicks attached. It's a fun, extremely flashy set.
My gripe with it is that it was very expensive on console slots, something all ship console sets do. The skillboxes required to make these abilities shine are science oriented. To make anything of science actually have very strong effects, you need to dedicate a lot of build space. Exotic Damage Science Vessels forsake everything for more EPG. Drain Builds forsake the same amount to have more Drain strength. Without good build dedication, the effects are weak and only provide a light show.
Since I wanted stronger results, I drifted away from any of the Herald consoles. I didn't want to, they were awesome looking in effects and were very fun. But I lost out on a lot of ability strength because those consoles did nothing to promote the skills I need to make those abilities strong.
Hmm... Temporal Spec gives a bunch of EPG when it's filled out, that might just change things for that sort of build. Also, there's now stackable consoles from the Fleet Research Lab that can have two different buff skills.