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Official Feedback Thread for Graphics Updates on PC
coldsnapped
Member Posts: 520 Cryptic Developer
Please use this thread to post feedback on graphics related issues found on Tribble.
We have recently updated Tribble to have a imporved lighting system to match the graphic quality of our recent launch to console. We'd like feedback on the overall quality on DX9, DX10, and DX11 cards on a variety of settings.
When leaving feedback or specific issues, please state what video card you have and the quality settings you have set your graphics to.
We have recently updated Tribble to have a imporved lighting system to match the graphic quality of our recent launch to console. We'd like feedback on the overall quality on DX9, DX10, and DX11 cards on a variety of settings.
When leaving feedback or specific issues, please state what video card you have and the quality settings you have set your graphics to.
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Gigabyte Geforce 970 using 372.90 drivers
Using DX11 in game. 1920x1080 with all settings at max except as noted below. Brightness and Render scale at 100%. Bloom at 100%. Using Lighting 2.0
Doing some testing to see why water disappears on New Rom, SF Academy, etc etc. when disabling "Depth of Field". Also trying to figure out why some portraits are blurred.
Depth Of Field (ON)-Blurred Portraits (Tholian Commander on New Rom for example)
Depth of Field (OFF)-Water disappears on New Rom, SF Academy and laser lights disappear like the blue light webs with the things that cordon off an area (not sure what to call them) on New Rom etc, etc, etc (lots of messed up stuff).
AA (OFF)---Fixes Depth of Field (OFF) problem as above
SMAA (ON)x2, x4, or x8---Breaks Depth of Field (OFF) as above
TXAA (ON)x2 or x4---Breaks Depth of Field (OFF) as above
FXAA (ON)---Fixes Depth of Field (OFF) problem as above
Sector space I will assume is still being worked on. In some areas planets have little to no detail with Lighting 2.0 vs 1.0. There's some planets that have little to no detail with Lighting 2.0 and 1.0.
Space is to bright with Lighting 2.0 vs 1.0. Light areas on planets are to bright with Lighting 2.0 vs 1.0. Dark areas on planets are to dark with Lighting 2.0 vs 1.0.
There are things I like about Lighting 2.0 and things I don't like. As it is right now since I prefer smaax8 and I dislike Depth of Field in any game I have to use lighting 1.0. Until lighting issues and Depth of Field (OFF) issues are fixed that's the plan. Hoping this and other graphic issues get resolved soonish.
I quite understand it's a work in progress and it looks like a lot of tedious work that needs to be done. I appreciate all the effort so far.
I was testing Bloom a bit more. With 1.0 I preferred 50%. With 2.0 I prefer 0%. And btw 1.0 at 500% is about equal to 2.0 at 0% if that makes any sense. That's how much it's overly bright. With 2.0 In sector space if you use 200% or more planets are no longer round. When on a planet and depending which one you are on lighting can effect the sun to completely distort the whole sky. Tbh it actually looks pretty cool and maybe on some wacked out non habitable planets due to some weird atmospheric conditions it's quite possible to have a view like that. But on New Rom I rather doubt it.
Depth of Field-ESD main area and looking at the big ships inside ESD DoF On and Off has no effect. It looks to be off btw. Did not check looking at external ships.
Depth of Field-ESD club 47 looking at the big ships inside ESD DoF works backwards. Yes i understand the difference between the two. On should blur distant objects and off should not. Off is on and on is off oddly. So far this is the only area where i've noticed this behavior. Looking outside of ESD I did not notice a difference. Sorry didn't test the last much. Got tired of waiting for ships to fly by.
Speaking of ESD's club 47 you already know about seeing 2 suns. Oddly with lighting 2.0 off the right sun's Lens Flare Quality Low and High are backwards. The left sun's low and high settings are both high. Also from below right of the right sun from 2:30 to 6:30 there is no lens flare at all in either low or high setting.
I am seeing water and icons on top of NPCs disappear when I turn "Cinematic Focus"/depth of field to OFF (in the Graphics tab of options). BUT this happens only when Lighting 2.0 setting is ON.
Water is on First City at that Fire Fountain (just to be clear, it is where the Judge, Nexa and the 2 Romulan talking to each other sit, outside the Exchange/Bank room). And I am looking at the Menbet, Security Officer, Torbak and Trenk in the main room of the Ganalda Station.
There is no change to the water or NPC icons when Lighting 2.0 is OFF (they are always there)....whether Cinematic Focus is on or off.
++++++++++++
On the Graphics tab in the Options....
Option for changing "Post Processing" is grayed out when Lighting 2.0 is ON. I am unsure if this is because "Post Processing" does not work with Lighting 2...hence blocked out?
There doesn't seem to be any evident change to the screen whether I have "Bloom Quality" set to OFF or LOW or HIGH.
OK...this is somewhat incorrect. I have to do the slider/reset thing (turn on the slider at the top of the Graphics tab, slide it to minimum, then to max) to get the "Bloom Quality" to start working, again. Few seconds later, changing it will stop working, again.
Either way, it is WAY too much bloom...it is better turned OFF.
Note: Bloom can be adjusted using the slider on the "Advanced" tab in Options....but it looks best turned to 0% (which seems the same as "Bloom Quality" OFF in the Display tab, anyways). This is bad on Ganalda station in the main room where all the consoles are. Everything seems to be reflecting the red light every where.
++++++++++++++
I messed a bit with "Anti-Aliasing" options in the Display tab. It only seems to effect how jagged or how blurry the lines are between objects on the screen. I think this is what it is supposed to do. I assume I just pick one that I am happy with.
Anti-Aliasing options, also, quits showing changes on the screen after a while and, probably, need to do one of those slider resets to get it to display changes, again. Or maybe just restart the program....not sure.
++++++++++++++
I mentioned, previously, on the other thread: my character walks as if she is going through molasses when on First City and Ganalda station (ground maps). That seems to be because my computer can not use the "MAX" settings on World, Terrain, Character Detail Distance. I have dialed that down to "HIGH".
And later on, I will go over to Holodeck and see what my settings are and see if I copying this (after a slider reset) can get similar performance out of Tribble. Right now, tired of looking at this stuff...and getting confusing with so many things to look at.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I just got another large patch for Tribble.
OH how to describe what I am seeing as far as the graphics.
I am on First City, still.
The lighting is so HARSH now...it is blurring everything in sight. The lighting is over taking all the details.
It no longer matters what I am adjusting my options to....or if I have "Bloom" on or off. And variations in colors are gone. Everything looks too gray, or too white.
Though, one good thing, I am no longer walking through molasses when on Max.
But it just LOOKS so bad....I just do not know what to do any more.
OH and I forgot this: when I turn Lighting 2.0 OFF....it is so dark it looks as if there are NO lights or shadows in First City, at all.
+++++++++++++++++
Addition: I copied over the Ferengi. Took a look around DS9 and ESD. I thought maybe you may have adjusted Fed areas a bit "better".
I thought First City was glare-filled, doesn't even come close to what is going on with ESD. There are some spots where I lost color on my Ferengi's clothing, even....the lights are too bright even with the Bloom and Lens Flare turned off.
And the contrast between shadow and light on ESD is incredible.
I was standing by Quinn's office when one of the ships flying by cast a shadow from "outside". I think even the indoor lighting was gone when the shadow of the ship flew across the room.
Something is off. I can't figure it out by just using the settings I have available to me on the program options.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Time is running out and it looks like there's a lot more work left to do. No big deal i'm sure it'll get done eventually. But hell dude I've been getting stuck in planets in sector space for over a year now. And today guess what, I'm still getting stuck. Transwarp to the rescue again. I certainly hope they take the opportunity to fix this issue while they're making all these graphics changes.
btw updated vid card driver to 373.06 and it appears to be the same.
Still problems with directx11 notebooks with IGD and Nvidia dedicated cards, as cannot load the game/hangs, it seems to be releated to the shader cache or the detection algorithm for the primary video card, as it keeps trying to load the intel shader cache on the nvidia one and viceversa, can we have an option of disable the shader cache in game? to test if this solve it?, or change the detection algorithm to manual? (both cards should be listed in the card selection in-game, but only one appears either the intel hd or the nvidia, that i have to forece on the driver level, but stil the problem persist)
Update: DXGI_ERROR_NOT_FOUND, so it seems it's the video card detection issue and the shader, i'm pretty sure that if we can disable the shader cache via command or something, it will work
It does look weird. It is almost as if one is walking inside of an impressionist painting with really bad shading/highlighting--applied REALLY heavily with broad strokes.
Objects are either in a super heated spot light....or a harsh reflection of that light.
It is washing out details...like shadows on the face and eyes and is bleaching out colors where ever it touches.
And it is not the "Brightness" setting.
It is not "Bloom" setting.
It is not "Lens Flare".
I don't know what it is.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Now the question is do people with lap tops know what profile to point towards. You would use Nvidia control panel, manage 3d settings. Set globally to use nvidia vid card. Probably not a good idea for games as profiles have compatibility settings etc. If you don't like using globally hit the program settings tab. Deselect show only programs shown on this comp. Now select the proper profile. In the case of Tribble and Redshirt you select GameClient.exe and not Star Trek: Online. Make GameClient.exe use the nvidia vid card. Selecting Star Trek: Online to use the nvidia card will not make it use it. See if that helps at all to ensure it uses the NVidia vid card.
If you want to try using the Star Trek: Online profile download nvidiainspector. Run nvidiaprofileinspector. Profiles top left type in Star Trek and scroll and select Star Trek: Online. Then to the right hit the green plus sign add application. Point towards the gameclient.exe located in your livetest folder. Before hitting open, change the type of file from Application exe name to Application Absolute Path. Then hit open. Now playtest will use Star Trek: Online as the profile. Note this is required for SLI to work on Tribble.
The only problem I have with changing the nvidia profiles is which one is actually the correct one for beta testing. I always change the profile as I described as I used to use SLI and for SLI to work I had to change the profile. GameClinet.exe profile does not have the SLI compatibity bits set. It looks like stereo vision would also require this. So i still question why nvidia points to the gameclient.exe profile. And especially now that we have Lighting 2.0 which profile should be used. Note I've noticed no difference between using either profile in regards to lighting issues. It may not matter except as regards SLI and ensuring you point towards the correct profile when using a lap top.
I am curious which profile we should actually be using. Ignoring making SLI work for the moment. If it's supposed to be Start Trek: Online, can someone please tell NVidia and have them add star trek online/playtest/gameclient.exe and star trek online/beta/gameclient.exe to the Star Trek: Online profile. It's confusing as hell the way it is currently.
It no longer matters what I am adjusting my options to....or if I have "Bloom" on or off. And variations in colors are gone. Everything looks too gray, or too white."
Check your bloom didn't mistakenly default to 500%. I had the same problem until I noticed the bloom setting was stupidly high. The bloom setting on the advanced page, not the graphics page. I assume it should be at 100% not 500%. No idea how it go that high.
I've included all this in a video I link below, but be aware, that the video is not too informative on it's own and should be cross-related with the text below
Fullscreen, HD recommended, so is pausing and moving around the timeline ;p
I could not find differences between High and Medium shadows settings, similarly with Low and Off. In the video only a few examples are given, but I couldn't notice a difference in more situations as well - do we really get 4 setting, or only High and Off?
It appears that some light sources are strangely positioned - like with the floating bulbs plant lamp thing. The light source appears to be like half meter above the plant's surface. Are the light sources based on the map initial design, or are being included by hand specifically for the new engine?
The whole Drozana Station looks bad after disabling Lighting 2.0 and definitely not like on Holodeck. It seems like all the lighting is gone and only some textures have their own luminosity.
Now this is an important issue in my opinion. It appears that the detailed shadows, based on the level geometry, are cast only when a player character is close enough. This is apparently done by checking if the LIGHT SOURCE or GEOMETRY OBJECT casting the shadow is within a sphere centered at the PLAYER. If the SOURCE/OBJECT are not at the same level (f.e. higher), then the 'horizontal range' of this effect is even more limited to a circle of like 2m radius (Klignon Academy example in the video). The desk at the Drozana Station casts shadows for like 8m radius, so this is why I think it is a sphere criterion based on the OBJECT-PLAYER distance.
Still, the distance is not modified by changing from Medium to High shadows setting and I think it is too limited even for a Medium setting. Additionally, I would suggest changing the rendering criterion, f.e.:
- form a line connecting the LIGHT SOURCE (point) and the GEOMETRY OBJECT (however it is defined).
- check where does the line cross with the PLAYER's plane (located at the player's feet), then a simple within-a-circle criterion could be fine I guess.
BTW. I put the Holodeck here just for the reference.To begin with, the initial 100% setting is usually too high, in my opinion it becomes reasonable below 25% and I see no reason to give the slider ability to go up to 500%.
The strength of the blinding effect appears to be based on the light intensity exclusively at the CAMERA location. Put the camera in a bright spot and the light is reasonable, put it in complete darkness and experience a painful flash of light ;p
I would suggest changing the criterion for the bloom application - I can think of a few alternatives:
- base it not only on the light intensity at the actual camera location, but also include light intensity at the player's location (average)
- base it only on the player's location (might give silly results though).
- base it on volumetric average of light intensities - in a cone in front of the camera, or a sphere around it. Might be a bit resource heavy, but the density of testing points could depend on some setting.
Additionally, I think that the lights in indoors settings are a bit too, how to describe that..., have too sharp edges? :P If there is an option to increase light scattering, so the light sources would cover more space, then I would try itThis is a random example I encountered and it opposes the lighting mechanics I experienced elsewhere. Where does the light come from? If it comes from the console far away, then why are there no shadows on the barrels/cast by the barrels? I think the source might be underground and clips through the floor (so apparently the light sources for 2.0 have to be put by hand).
This one is actually quite self explanatory from just watching the video. Some strange things happen to transparent objects (or at least to this particular window) at the MINimum setting and change the transparency map to a solid color(?).
Well, this one is just anticlimactic. It could go well with the old lighting, where the station is not as dark, but I think the ambient light is not even as strong on Holodeck. Lowering it's density, disabling it for (specific) indoors locations or changing it's color could possibly result in an improvement.
This one might be difficult to catch from the video as it might look like some compression artifacts - best to try it in the game. Apparently, this effect is not new, as I've found it on Holodeck as well, however, it is much more noticeable with the new lighting engine.
The effect is actually not like the camera lens was dirty, but rather like if someone was flashing the scene with a dirty flashlight. A predefined pattern of spots can be seen to follow the camera movement, this is especially well visible on the computers (lower horizontal parts) in the Klingon Academy.
I don't know what is the reason for having such mechanism, but maybe it should be redesigned for the new engine.
Hope this helps in any way
Specs:
GeForce GTX970 (driver ver. 369.09)
i7-4790K
32 GB RAM
Win 10 64bit
Direct3d 11 in game setting
The other settings as seen in the video, or usually maxed out.
No, I was adjusting my "Bloom" in both tabs to try to correct what I was seeing on the screen. All the way up and down. And that was not the cause.
I got an e-mail from my friend....he thinks it is associated to "Dynamic Range"....on TVs it is "HDR" or "High Dynamic Range". It allows for adjustment to "luminescence"....how dark the dark look, compared to areas of light. Which we really don't have a setting for, per se....maybe "Dynamic Lighting". ????
Anyhoo....the weird look comes from the scale of the difference between the light and the dark being so far apart and intense that they are canceling out any mid-range gradients which is messing with the texture. Because to see some dimension on a flat surface...it is about highlights and shadows.
Hence...loosing shadows that would make facial features pop like nose and eye sockets and ridges on my Klingon, crevices in the rock walls on First City and in the boulders at the Fire Fountain disappears...making them look flat.
That intensity is why the shadow of the ship flying across the room on ESD strips out any other lights in the interior, while walking under the down lights in the hallways wash out uniform colors, probably hair (if your character has hair).
Light or dark is just over powering everything else that makes up the "picture" and gives it dimension.
I can not change it by adjusting bloom, or brightness, or lens flare with the program. And turning off "Dynamic Light" or messing with number of shadows...etc... not working either. I think I have pretty much gone through all the buttons and settings in STO program options. But Holodeck is OK.
Now, if someone knows HOW to adjust, or knows what settings in options I need to change, to make a difference with it. Please leave a note here.
I am wondering if this patch I received on Friday, reverted things back to something previous. Because I remember reading people making a note of textures missing on Tribble, last month, I think.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Graphics1.0: http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img921/3766/OdW7eS.jpg
Graphics2.0: http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/166/DMfFLV.jpg
It seems that the PC graphics were nerfed so hard to be at the console level that the game went from a 2010 game to a 2000 game, and we all know is not gona be fixed..
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Graphics 1.0: http://imageshack.com/a/img921/3069/OL3AlR.jpg
Graphics 2.0: https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1683x947q90/921/6NoBMb.jpg
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
OK...I am seeing some of the things I am complaining about in your video.
Definitely seeing this on the Tribble patch I downloaded Friday. It was not doing that on last weekend's patch (the going completely dark with Lighting 2.0 off).
I, also, see that strange rectangular shadow on top of the ramp in the middle of the room, while walking between the entrance over back to the Mail Terminal. It appears and disappears exactly as in your video.
I wasn't even sure what was casting that shadow...and why it isn't there once I moved off the ramp.
Also, if you watch the man standing on top of the ramp....details appear and disappear. He looks like a silhouette, at times. It isn't THAT dark in the room...and there was something else that looked funny about him, I can't put my finger on.
I see this (large variation between light and dark) on parts of ESD, too. Like on the ramp from the Transporter room going to the area where the Starfleet Emblem is in the carpet/floor. It is like walking outside at night...I think the moonlight would look is brighter. You could get mugged on ESD it is so dark! ???
THIS looks OK on the "shadowy" areas on First City, though. Because, that is the way the slums are supposed to look, right?
OK, THAT is what I am seeing with the Ferengi in the lights on ESD. Her uniform completely fades out because the glare is like it is in your video "when camera is in the dark"...where your uniform and hair has too much harsh lighting on it and fades out, too.
That "painful flash of light" will wash everything else out. And the SHADOWS do the same thing.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Depth of field too shallow in contact window
Spacing in italic text reduced after "Agents of Yesterday: Artifacts"
New lighting system affects brightness of the map and minimap
Trees and roof different in map of Starfleet Academy
Weird bright spot over planets in map window
Pixelated maps in system space
Surfaces of ships too bright and reflective
Bloom increased on ships
I decided to put that to good use.
I went to Risa. What's under the water at Risa? Rumor has it: it is Starfleet Academy.
(What?!? I don't know how that rumor started, but my friend told this to me in an e-mail)
Anyhoo, I do not know HOW people are seeing Starfleet Academy by going underwater on Risa.
So, I decide just to remove the water there. Guess what? I did not see Starfleet Academy.
I did not see it at the resort map and I did not see it on the classic map.
What I saw was miles and miles of beach. Sand just like what is on the beach, some of it was painted blue (I assume, that would give areas the look of depth). Nothing interesting like the SF Bay.
The other thing I saw is: The power boards are not floating at water level.
When on the power board the water comes up to my Ferengi's hips...it still works, I glide along quickly, except under water level (which doesn't really matter when I have the water turned off but...). She was using the freebie "Back to the Future Hoover board" we got last year.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
-Terminal Expanse, all of it is a gorgeous beauty in every phase: the expanse, the sphere interior and above all, the Yorktown bridge (even if the saucer in front of it is still missing) are very pretty to look at now.
-The confrontation with the TLF on New Khitomer is vastly improved with the lightnings and shadows
-Borg interiors' atmosphere is well enhanced with these sickly green lights everywhere combined with the darker rooms
-Bajor feels so much warmer
-On the other hand, Mirror Bajor is darker thanks to the covered and rainy weather, gives a slight Blade Runner style
-DS9 seems to have been improved and a bit less bright
Depth of field OFF and AA set to msaa or txaa no longer makes water disappear. Woop!
However depth of field ON still has some target portraits blurry. Tholian commander on new rom for example.
Glad to see the fix at the captains table and drozona station when lighting 2.0 is off. No longer completely dark.
The overall lighting for 2.0 still needs to be toned down a bit.
Bloom is still wacked with being overly bright. Also some areas of bloom cause squares. Example would be the table lights that look like a handle at drozona station s/w tables. Even with bloom turned down to 10% you still see a square block of light.
Orbiting New Rom (not sector space) there is a warp gate. Some textures are missing and some lights. The only way to fix this is to set lighting 2.0 OFF and Lighting Quality LOW. That's kind of an odd one.
TBH i'm not sure I've seen any area yet that looks visually better using Lighting 2.0 ON. Although a few are very close to being better. However I do enjoy the increased FPS. I'm sure given enough time i'll see the light.
P.S. Get rid of the fog of war. Or at least give us some console commands to increase the distance or to disable it. And please include them in our settings.cfg file. If it isn't a fog of war then something is broke that needs fixing.
First off the Warp Gate at New Rom system.
This is with Lighting 2.0 enabled. Note the missing textures and lighting in 5 areas which you'll see in the 3rd pic.
This is as above except with UI hidden. See the missing lights shown. Oddly you can also have UI shown and increase renderscale to 1.201 to show the missing lights. Problem is they flash on and off 3 times a second. Increasing renderscale to 1.35 makes the missing lights only flash off once every 15 seconds or so.
This is with Lighting 2.0 OFF AND lighting quality set to LOW. This is the only way i've found to get textures and lighting to work
This is with Lighting 2.0 enabled. This is Drozona station and showing the Bloom effect on lights on the tables. Bloom is set at 100% and you can see blue squares. Lowering to 10% you still see the squares allbeit just barely. Lighting 2.0 Off the bloom for these lights is fine. Click on image for a better view.
Quark's bar is a good spot to test the new lighting so here goes.
Lighting 2.0 Disabled. Looks fine here.
Lighting 2.0 Enabled. Way to bright for a bar.
Next is 2 pics on Kobali Prime in a very low FPS area for fps comparisons.
Lighting 2.0 Disabled. Note the low cpu usage which causes low gpu usage with the cpu being the limiting factor here.
Lighting 2.0 Enabled. A fairly nice increase to FPS without any compromise to visual quality that I can see. Well except for it being a bit to bright overall. Note the increased cpu usage which causes increased gpu usage with the cpu being the limiting factor here.
Lighting 2.0 enabled along with;
No AA=no issue
MSAA*2, *4 or *8=problem as shown
TXAA*2 or *4=problem as shown
FXAA=no issue
The only change to the above is the removal of the left sun. The right sun with 2.0 disabled still has the lens flare pie cut as below. Low and high lens flare settings are now the same. I'm assuming it's high. But I don't really know for sure.
There's a couple things i'd probably do to improve it more. I'd have to take some screenshots to indicate what bugs me a bit. But i'd probably move to other areas first as ESD is close to perfect. Get everywhere else looking like ESD and i'd suggest someone get a raise.
I noticed that the lighting from crates is less bright/annoying now. Not sure what was done there, but I like it. That's another item to check off my list. Keep these fixes and updates coming.
A lot of work has been done. However there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. A bit over 2 weeks ago the character select screen looked gorgeous. Now it looks like dodo as ambient lighting was fixed? Sorry but I think you went in the wrong direction. Ambient lighting to me still seems fubar. It still needs to be turned down. Bloom is still way out of whack and the square blocks it causes as shown in my Drozona station shot is still not fixed.
Sadly it actually sounds like not much has been done at all, although I know this isn't the case as I've previously noted some of the changes. However it's been what over 4 months since the Lighting 2.0 update? Please fix these other egregious issues.
- World detail distance
- Terrain detail distance
- Character detail distance
- World texture detail
- Character texture detail
- Postprocessing
- Screen-space ambient occlusion
- Cinematic focus (depth of field)
- Antialiasing
- Reflection quality
- Lighting 2.0
- Shadows
- Max lights per object
- Max shadowed lights
Nothing I changed seem to fix it.