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The Old Guys
flash525
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Thinking back to some of the allies and enemies we've encountered over the years here...
* Breen
* Deferi
* Devidian
* Dominion
* Undine
* Elachi
* Tholian
* Voth
* Kobali
* Vaudwaar
* Cooperative (Borg)
* Krenim
I'm sure there are many others, but moving forward, save creating yet another species, could we use one of the existing ones? I no doubt expect the Dominion are being saved for something special, but the Voth, Elachi, Tholian and Vaudwaar have been reduced to Red Alerts or Battle Zones, the Undine (and Iconian) have decided to isolate themselves (why there wasn't a war between the Undine and Iconian I'll never know) and the Devidian, Breen, and Krenim have fallen into a black hole or something.
Is the story going to progress at all regarding the Deferi, Kobali or Cooperative? Are the Breen or Devidian ever going to pose more of a threat than a minor nuisance? Are the Undine ever going to get their revenge on the Iconian? Considering how vengeful the Undine were when they thought it was us attacking them, how are they contempt to take a loss upon the realisation they were tricked? Are the Iconian (that one in particular) ever going to pose another threat to us?
It would be nice (at least, I think so) to use some of what we've got rather than creating more and more new species to fight. Let's warm up the Breen or shatter the Tholians once more.
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I don't see why it would be particularly productive to try making these guys out into anything but relatively minor antagonists. Some should just be that, if they all tried to play for "ultimate doom bringer across all of space and time!" there may as well only be ONE adversary. As it is, we have diversity. The Iconians and Sphere Builders both favor giant balls but their scope, plans, nature of the conflict, and implications wildly differ.
That said, we also have those hanging plot threads (Undine, Vaadwuar, Dominion, Borg [Vega], and Iconian come most to mind). But these should probably be handled where they could have the biggest impact in the current plot. Ie. don't diver NOW to take care of what happened with the rest of the Undine, do it after an event which ties into multiple dimensions/domains. Then they become part of a larger narrative (either directly or indirectly), not just an isolated tangent.
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This ^
Why didn't we go to the Undine and ask for their help?
Replay it again ... Cooper is 'reconditioned'/killed (?) by the Undine.
Cooper 'dies' in that mission. He gets 'reconditioned' by the what appears to be painful beam of death.
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah .. great ... We should have stolen one of the Iconian ships and attacked the Undine provoking them to attack the Iconians.
It's that or we go in and beg them to help us.
If the Undine can blow a hole in a Dyson Sphere while simultaneously taking out a Voth Dreadnought with a single shot. I think we could of had a good chance defeating the Iconians without the time travel madness.
Wrong Universe. But the rest was good
We have no idea how many Undine there are or how old they are.
Other than that I would rate the Undine having the superior technology. They can use their quantum singularities to pop in and out whenever they want. (With the exception of 'Surface Tension' ... which made no sense.)
They can blow up a planet with nine ships or that giant tentacle monster bioship. (which again makes no sense. if you can do it with nine ships why do you need a giant tentacle monster?!)
A) I belive the actual line was something along the lines of it was easier to do, not imposible (Which they can already do in a system in the Beta Quadrant so they didn't really need to use the Dyson Sphere in Surfance tension)
oh okay, I misunderstood that part about the preservers children.
1. How do you know? The Undine for all we know may predate everything.
2. The ships that flooded into the Qu'noS System ( again in Surface Tension ) would disagree ... and don't forget ... the big tentacle bioship also came along for the ride.
3. I'll have a hunt through them later. In either case ... the target in this thread is the Iconians, Not the Federation.
The Tholian, Gorn, Tzenkethi, maybe even Voth and of course the Undine are not traditionally humanoid. We don't know with upmost certainty that the Preservers were the first species to exist anywhere. We've met a whole bunch of sentient life across the stars, ranging from those mentioned above, to the Devidian, various gaseous forms of life, and other omnipotent beings.
Are the events of STO lore considered official Trek lore? If not, then the whole connection between the Preservers and Iconian is mute anyway.
We know that the Preservers are responsible for Humans, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Bajorans, Voth (possibly), Kazon, Talaxian and a whole bunch of other species. You are making wild assumptions for the Icionian based in their representation within STO. It could be argued that when the Preservers said they were responsible for all humanoid life, they actually meant mammalian life, which would automatically exclude all Reptilian species (Gorn, Tzenkethi, Xindi (in part)).
I doubt the writers at the point of that TNG episode knew just how much Trek would advance. References and meanings then could be out of context to what we can perceive now.
Maybe some species were able to resist the Preserver stuff.
The problem we've got is that the Voth weren't even a thought in the minds of the Trek writers when the TNG episode took place, so they (the TNG writers) wouldn't have accounted for them. The Voth were an afterthought. At the very least, the Tholian came about by other means (unless you're suggesting that the Preservers are responsible for seeding their origin planet too?)
I personally find/found the whole Preserver arc to be a bit TRIBBLE; they seeded Earth, but there are a vast number of other creatures that spawned on Earth, not all of which were humanoid. The Voth evolved into a humanoid species (as did we, funnily enough). If we weren't there, it's quite possible another species would have dominated, so what exactly did the Preservers do? Seed specifics of life, or seed life in general?
hahahah amen !!! (grumbles something) "those dam Millennials" (grumble grumble)