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Talk to me about Science Captains.
jaymadiv
Member Posts: 55 Arc User
I'm reading up on them, but figured I'd ask for some practical insight.
my first PS4 Character is a Reman Tactical Captain, and it is pretty straightforward so far. pew pew, blow stuff up, throw grenades, etc.
Engineer I looked at, and the ground gameplay wasn't interesting to me, most of what I was was just spending 3 seconds setting up turrets and mines, and then watching.
Science, is somewhat intriguing from what I have read thus far. I've seen that they are healer/debuffers, and the Science Ships that I saw (at least on the Fed side) look pretty nice, where I'm not fond of the looks of the rest of the Fed Ships.
Can they be more hybrid-ish, or are they straight up healbot-types? In practice, how do they play, and what is the general playstyle of the Science Ships? How will my solo play as a Science Captain differ from my Group play?
also, do Romulans have Science Warbirds, or do they just use the same Warbirds that everyone else uses?
also, lastly, Lore-wise, what's the function of a Science Vessel? they are typically exploration-first, combat-only-if-necessary types, right?
my first PS4 Character is a Reman Tactical Captain, and it is pretty straightforward so far. pew pew, blow stuff up, throw grenades, etc.
Engineer I looked at, and the ground gameplay wasn't interesting to me, most of what I was was just spending 3 seconds setting up turrets and mines, and then watching.
Science, is somewhat intriguing from what I have read thus far. I've seen that they are healer/debuffers, and the Science Ships that I saw (at least on the Fed side) look pretty nice, where I'm not fond of the looks of the rest of the Fed Ships.
Can they be more hybrid-ish, or are they straight up healbot-types? In practice, how do they play, and what is the general playstyle of the Science Ships? How will my solo play as a Science Captain differ from my Group play?
also, do Romulans have Science Warbirds, or do they just use the same Warbirds that everyone else uses?
also, lastly, Lore-wise, what's the function of a Science Vessel? they are typically exploration-first, combat-only-if-necessary types, right?
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I'm not sure if there will be too much difference between playing solo or in groups, maybe a bit more strategy with when to hold and group enemies up, and keeping an eye on heals "just in case."
I'm enjoying it at least, it feels a bit more interactive having more damaging abilities, rather than the usual weapon buff / augment abilities.
EDIT: As for lore, I believe Science vessels are normally a bit more task-orientated than pure exploration - gathering more information on the known, rather than the unknown, as it were. There's probably some overlap though.
Also, your role in space comes more from the ship and your skill choices than from your captain type. There are only a few captain powers, everything else comes from your bridge officers. So a tac captain can fly a science ship, an engineer can fly a tacship.
Tacs actually are best at everything in space since their Attack Pattern skill increases all damage, while science captains get a decoy ships skill instead and engineers get a power level buff.
On the ground, they are more distinct. Tacs throw grenades, engies make turrets, science types debuff and cast AOE techno-magic. To me tacs are harder to play on ground maps because the other two have decoy / debuff powers and can self-heal shields (eng) or health (sci). That matters more on maps when you are alone or with only 1-2 bridge officers.
Science ships are fun to fly because of the space magic -- a control + damage boat will use Gravity Well to clump up ships and rip up their hulls, then maybe a torpedo spread to start a chain of warp core explosions. There are other fun skills to mix in like scramble sensors (confuse) so the clumped up ships attack each other. Federation has the most choice for science ships, in fact if the 31st Century 3-pack is not on console yet you can't buy any real endgame science ships for KDF or Romulans.
I actually focus on survivalist and healing, rather than DPS.
To me, it's no fun if something goes boom 5 seconds after hitting it. o.o
STO does not really have the holy trinity of damage dealer, healer and tank that other MMOs may have (take that with a grain of salt 'cuz STO is the only MMO I play). Anyone in STO can deal damage. They also have at least one ability that can be used to heal themselves or others when it comes to ground combat. For space combat you basically rely on your Bridge Officers (Boff) to do damage, heal and tank. That's on top of specific captain abilities.
As for science captains there is a discussion about them in the following thread that primarily focuses on space combat. But basically science captains are pretty fun to play around with, but they need special attention when it comes to space gear because science captains need to use consoles that can make whatever abilities you are using to be more effective.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1221583/science-leveling-ps4
"Space Magic" basically falls into either Control, Drain or Exotic Damage categories. There is no single console that will boost all those abilities. Most consoles only boost one of them, therefore most people specialize on one of those abilities and either ignores the others or they simply play a very minor role. I would say most people with science captains focuses on Exotic Damage with only minor attention towards Control and Drain. Exotic Damage completely ignores shields, therefore when fighting against really powerful science ship enemy ships can be destroyed with even though their shields are at 100%.
I have three science captain, one in each faction. They are all primarily focused on offense rather than support (healing), because in space everyone can heal themselves to a certain degree based on whatever Boff abilities are slotted. They all focus on Exotic Damage and to a minor extent Control because they all use Gravity Well that pulls enemies together (Control) and also deals Exotic Damage. However, with regards to Drain, that only plays a minor role for my Romulan and KDF science captain; and I completely ignore it for my Fed science captain.
Both my Romulan (Fed Aligned) and KDF science captains use Polaron weapons which has a chance to drain some subsystem power. On top of that they also use a console known as a Plasmonic Leech which drains power from enemy ship and adds some portion of it to yourship when you use energy weapons. Therefore, I generally have one console that can boost Drain abilities. The Plasmonic Leech can be obtained from the T3 KDF Vandal Destroyer you pay 1,500 Zen for the ship and you can claim the ship, then claim the console, then discharge the ship, reclaim the ship again, so that you can claim another Plasmonic Leech for your captain. Rinse and repeat. Since the Vandal is a KDF ship Fed captains cannot obtain the Leech this way. At least in the PC version of STO, Federation captains can have a chance to get a Plasmonic Leech by opening lock boxes specifically the Tal Shiar Lock Box or the Infinity Lock Box. Both are not in the console version of the game. My Fed captain flies a torpedo ship (using the T6 Scryer Science Vessel). Since the ship does not have any energy weapons, a Plasmonic Leech is useless and there I do not use any console that boost drain abilities.
A torpedo ship is specialized build which requires more attention to play them because on the PC version most people hit the spacebar to fire weapons; firing energy weapons first, which then triggers torpedoes to fire (unless they are cooling down). For a ship with no energy weapons and only torpedoes, the spacebar does nothing because there are no energy weapons to automatically trigger torpedoes. Instead each specific torpedo icon must be clicked on in the abilities bar every time you want to fire that specific torpedo. Not sure how that translate to the "abilties wheel" (or whatever the correct term is) for consoles.
Romulan and the KDF share the same fate when it comes to science vessels... there are not to choose from. For example, neither faction has their own T6 science vessel. It was not until recently (on the PC) that both the Romulans and KDF finally have a T6 science vessel that they can purchase from the C-Store... the cross-faction T6 Eternal which all three factions can use. The T6 was released as part of the Agents of Yesterday "expansion" which means it is not available yet on the consoles. As a Romulan you will not have an opportunity to select a free science vessel until you reached level 40. The T5 Ha'nom Guardian Warbird is the your 1st and only free science vessel. And... that ship kinda sucks. It flies like a coach bus with flat tires. I suppose that is because it uses a Singularity Warp Core which gives you singularity ship abilities, but at the cost of 40 points of power. The trade off of 40 power points for the singularity abilities is not too noticeable for Engineer and Tactical captains, but it is a handicap for Science captains because you are likely going to use both energy weapons and science abilities. That means you need power in both the weapon subsystems (torpedoes do not use energy) and auxiliary subsystems. The more power in the weapon subsystem, the more damage your energy weapons will do. The more power in the auxiliary subsystem the more effective your science abilities will be. This is why the trade off of 40 power points for singularity ship abilities (which are situational abilities) is a handicap for Romulan science captains.
My advice is to align with the KDF so that you can claim the Plasmonic Leech from the T3 Vandal Destroyer that can be purchased from the C-Store for 1,500 Zen or 1,200 Zen during a ship sale. As a Romulan you can use ships of the faction that you align with, but they are limited to T1 through T4 starships which can be purchased from the shipyard for a specific amount of Refined Dilithium (dil) or from the C-Store using Zen. Both T5 and T6 ships specific to the other factions are off limits.
Lore-wise, science vessel filled many roles and probably in many case combat was likely not even a secondary role for them. In Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, the U.S.S. Grissom (Oberth class) was strictly as science research vessel with very limited combat abilities. It might be good for doing reconnaissance (similar to the Lockheed U-2 Spy Plane), but likely nothing beyond that in military operations. The U.S.S. Pasteur (Olympic class) under the command of Captain Beverly Crusher in the final episode of ST: TNG "All Good Things" is basically a medical or hospital ship, therefore it would never serve on the front line in combat. It was strictly support ship. The U.S.S. Voyager (Intrepid class) was the first example of a science vessel that could be considered powerful enough to serve on the front line in time of war, but it's primary role was exploration. The mirror universe version was called the "warship" Voyager in an episode that I cannot remember the name of.
Talking science captains in space (ground is another huge wall o text so I'll save it for later). The first thing, is that more than any other player group, i see people who main a science captain get obsessive compulsive about using science ships. Which is almost always a terrible idea. Don't get me wrong, there are absolutely times where it works (reciprocity shield tank with exotic damage combo'd to beams for example, sci-sci rocks with this), but for some reason I see players get very obsessive about this specific combo in a way no other group of players gets. So my first bit of advice, is take a good hard look at escorts, destroyers, carriers and cruisers and know what being a science captain actually means compared to what you might think it means.
Jaguar gave a wonderful overview of the types of science builds out there. Be sure you understand what those types are and ask questions if you don't. A lot of us who enjoy science have one of each, they are all great fun.
To know what a science captain is it helps to know what a captain is compared to what the whole package is. In space your capabilities are a combination of up to 13 bridge officer powers, up to 11 consoles, the ship itself with between 6 and 8 weapons, up to 6 active duty officers, any unique devices (up to 4), and your captain. The captain adds personal traits, reputation traits, starship traits, and 5 active powers.
However, all but 2 personal traits are universal, meaning a tactical and a science captain can both use them, ALL of the reputation and ship traits are universal. The active powers and those 2 personal traits are the only things where being science is different from being an engineer or a tactical. ALL the rest of your game experience is coming from something other than your captain. This includes all the space magic people are talking about higher in the thread. It has nothing whatsoever.. I will say this as strongly as I can... space magic has f*ck all to do with being a science captain. Instead that comes from the ship choice and the bridge officers.
So what are those unique powers and personal traits that actually matter to a science captain?
#1 photonic capacitor. this lets you summon photonic ships slightly more often. The min maxers say it is not enough benefit compared to other options. I say photonic fleet is one of my favorite things about being a science captain, so more is totally better. Every single one of my science captains takes this trait.
#2 Conservation of Energy. If the enemy shoots you, your ship's science powers do more damage. If the enemy doesn't shoot you, this trait does absolutely nothing at all. Keep this part in mind.
And the active powers:
1. photonic fleet. Summon three warships to harass your enemies. This is not a highh damage ability, and not a good way to dump aggro, but it is a little bit of both and a lot of fun.
2. subneucleonic beam. Mostly a pvp power. Strips away all buffs and slow down enemy powe recharge times. Mostly used on bosses becuse no one else has powers worth slowing down.
3. scattering field. An AoE damage reduction power. Protects you and nearby allies. Synergistically makes heals last longer by reducing damage etc.
4. Sensor scan. The power with the shortest recharge so you'll use it most. A short duration AoE resistance debuff. Great for torpedo spread or gravity well combos. Works with both space magic and weapons. Helps your whole team do more damage against a whole lot of enemies.
5. Science Team. Gives you and your whole team up to 36% reduced damage to shields, big buff to shield healing/regeneration, and drain expertise which both increases ability to drain power from enemies and protects against being drained yourself.
This right here is absolutely everything that is unique to science captains in space. Nothing else about the space experience is unique to science captains.
So how is it different? The short version on tactical captains are they have a bunch of ways to boost damage, mostly for themselves but a little for the team too. Engineers get a heal, a defense buff and two power boosts. Science is by far the most flexible having some damage, some defense, some buff, some debuff and then photonic fleet which is its own unique thing. This variety and flexibility is why I say science captains are my favorites and I hear a lot of other people say similar things. All tactical captains are adding damage to whatever build they are using, they are a one-trick pony. Engineers can do a lot of stuff with those power boosts, but in the end they mostly just get bonus survival. Kinda of a two-trick pony. But science captains? No one knows what to expect really. You can go in any direction with a science captain.
So why did I begin by cautioning against tunnel vision about science captain in a science ship? Well, lets look at the three most common builds Jaguar defined.
Exotic damage. This build needs both weapon power and auxiliary power. Engineers have multiple ways to boost power, this makes them better at weapons than any science captain can be if everything else on the ship is the same. Same exotic damage, but the engineer has more power for both systems. The science captain can get a boost to exotic damage only when enemies are shooting him, so if you are teamed the science captain needs to be the tank, except thiis build is a damage dealer so that incoming fire might kill you. What about the tactical? They have 6 ways to boost "all damage" including exotic damage. A tactical captain will always do more exotic damage in a science ship than anyone else.
Torpedo ship: Again, tactical will always beat science for this build. Science will beat engineer (aoe debuff plus a tiny bit of damage from photonic fleet), engineer has the best survival.
Drain: Engineer's bonus power makes it the best choice here. Science has a tiny edge over tactical because of science fleet, but that is a short duration power with a looooong cooldown. Not enough to really matter. A tactical is ging to kill faster than either an engineer or a science captain with a drain build, but that's not really draining.
So in all three major science ship builds the sceince captain is at best the second choice. Never suck, but never the best. You'll fiind a ton of people flying all three builds science captain and it completely works. If you want to, by all means go for it. But if you want to have the "best" aka "highest damage" exotic particle damage build... that needs a tactical captain not a science captain.
What about other types of builds?
Carrier: engineer has nothing to help the fighters. Tactical has one -resistance that is similar to a science captain. Science has the shield buff, the -resistance, and photonic fleet. Science captains are awesome carrier captains.
Tank. Engineers have the best survival. Tacticals have the easiest time getting aggro and killing things. Science have the most team support (several aoe powers, photonic fleet, etc). Also, remember that shield tank hybrid exotic damage I mentioned? Conservation of energy says if people shoot you, you do more exotic damage. Add in the science bridge officer feedback pulse everytime someone shoots you they take exotic damage in retaliation. Then use your shield buff protecting not just you but your allies too. Add in some powers like tractor beam repulsors that can either push enemies away or pull them right up close to you. Science captains can do this style of tanking really really well and are good tanks in general.
So that's an overview of how I see the differences between captain types and why I like science captains most. Most of the rest of the feedback people give that is supposed to be about the captain is really about the ship, bridge officers and build instead. All of that stuff is about your character, but it is not about your captain.
Not me. Maximum drain boat on my main sci toon. Added benefit, it's pretty much a tank in PvE since it constantly drains weapons power.
It is and it isn't. Keep in mind that the ship class you "recommend" Science flies - and is like the KDF's "prime choice" for Science Captains - carriers, are nothing more than science ships with a cruiser's hull, shields and maneuverability, which trades secondary deflector and sensor analysis for two hangar bays.
Meanwhile:
Science ships, in general, have been viewed as "poor" options for PvE, due to their 3/3 loadout and complete lack of pets to boost DPS with. Tack that on top of the stance that "in space, you need to be a Tac, because they do DPS. At least engineers have "enhanced survivability" to help them do DPS for longer. Sciences have what, the "ultimate" PvP power (subnucleonic beam) which... "highlights" an otherwise "meh" lineup of Captain Skills. Because the Science's "jack of all trades" nature doesn't exactly lead them to "pile on captain skills constantly"...
In a way, many of the "Science in Science" crowd are doing this to flaunt conventional wisdom and fly the "weakest" combination of player class & ship in such a manner to be competitive, useful, etc. etc.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I wish there were more who thought like that. I have one engineer and one sci specifically for that reason. But nearly always the argument I hear presented is literally "I am science so I am supposed to fly in science and if that's not 'the best' coombo than cryptic designed the game wrong".
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1204182/the-science-ship-build-thread/p1
Heaps of ideas in there, some might not win any DPS races but they will all be fun to play with and try out.
The great thing about science ships and captains is that you can build something less conventional because you've got ways to fight without worrying about the almighty DPS number holy grail. For example, no need to have a million DPS when all your attacks ignore shields is there?