It's the same thing when people say that we defeated the Collective. We did no such thing, we managed to push back an invasion force. We don't know anything about what remaining forces they have because we've only encountered an expedition force.
Didn't Cpt. Janeway do a bit of damage to the Collective "Core" just before leaving the Delta Quadrant?
Difficult to answer, they lost one of six transport hubs but we don't know if they could rebuilt it and how important this loss was to them. It was the last episode so we can't really say much about it.
Anyway, what I meant was that people have, in the past on here, pretended that we (as in, we: the players during STF's and missions) defeated the collective or at least severly weakened them. But in reality, we have only managed to push them back. After the Borg assimilated multiple planets and a Starbase, built some stuff in our and fluidic space and assimilated a small Klingon fleet and building a base on the surface of Vega colony, we pushed them back. But this all happened in our space and we never brought the fight to the Borg. Except maybe during Borg Disconnected but even that is questionable as we don't know the location of the Unimatrix. It could well be part of an invasion force somewhere in the Delta Quadrant on the edge of Borg space. Or, given that the Voth can transwarp and that the Undine managed to arrive in the Alpha Quadrant in some way, it may even be located there somewhere.
It's the same thing when people say that we defeated the Collective. We did no such thing, we managed to push back an invasion force. We don't know anything about what remaining forces they have because we've only encountered an expedition force.
Except we do, we see in Delta Rising that the Borg are so battered and beaten, whilst getting a four on one assault by the Alliance, the Voth, the Undine, and the Vaadwaur, that the queen is using desperation tactics such as sending out signals to try to re-assimilate Borg Cooperative ships to rebuild the Collective.
The situation is so bad the Queen makes the comment of "I wont let the Collective end here!" during the mission, because the Borg are literally on their last legs and even she knows it.
And what have we seen of the Borg since then? Nothing, except an appearance in a alternate timeline in the butterfly mission that we undid.
This kind of thinking is the problem with the rest of your post as well. You refuse to accept anything, no matter how bluntly, or obviously, presented, as being proof that something is over unless the Devs themselves come to your house and hand you an embossed, framed, certificate saying "its over!"
Everything you have said so far is needless "BUT WHAT IF!" statements that try to weasel around what the game has shown us.
Next you will be trying to push the idea that the Tal Shiar and Romulan Star Empire could come back, despite the fact we have seen nothing of either since the end of the New Romulas arc, outside of a very brief appearance at the beginning of "Uneasy Allies" where even Sela notes you blew up what was basically the last of her ships.
Even though the Tal Shiar also lost two of their important leaders (Hakeev and Raul or Ruul), they still played a role througout the later arcs. So thanks for bringing that up, it proves once again that your assumption that the Na'kuhl are no longer involved in anything after losing two of their leaders is not based on any substantial evidence.
I don't have the exact quote of the Queen, but I believe she says something like 'The collective will not fall here. I will not allow it.' That's open to interpretation, especially since she adds the word 'here'. It's an indication that it's just another force, one of many probably. Borg space is huge, they have probably assimilated thousands of homeworlds.
And Borg Disconnected gives no substantial evidence of the location of events either as I noted in my other post. Even if we were in Borg territory there, it would be the first time that we actually did some damage to the Borg in their own space. And, as noted, it doesn't have to be core territory.
they still played a role througout the later arcs..
Except this is another bold faced lie, after the capture of Ruul the Tal Shiar don't show up again except the incredibly minor and insignificant part at the beginning of Uneasy Allies.
This just goes to prove my point, you will do anything, say anything, make up any excuse like "BUT ITS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION!" to find some way to try to weasel out of something that is a basic narrative device used in all media everywhere to show that something is over.
Sela specifically mentions that the Star Navy does not have 'the means to patrol far-flung systems'. So that the ships you encounter there must be Tal Shiar. That obviously shows that there is some contrast between the two which would imply that the Tal Shiar is far from defeated if they do have the means to patrol those systems.
Of course I'm saying that it is open to interpretation, because it is. Probably done intentionally because the Devs want to keep some options open. They have revamped episodes quite often and brought back NPC's before so it's hardly surprising that things are not entirely wrapped up: there is some logic behind that.
Tell me, if you're not willing to consider that things may be open for debate, why exactly then are you participating in those debates?
Since this is leading nowhere, I'll just leave it at this. But perhaps you should reconsider something: don't call people liars when they are basing their statements on game-related events and canon. It's all fine if you, based on assumptions, want to pretend everything is perfectly clear and not open to debate, but you may want to realise that you're as much making stuff up by just assuming things without providing evidence for your statements.
Sela specifically mentions that the Star Navy does not have 'the means to patrol far-flung systems'. So that the ships you encounter there must be Tal Shiar. That obviously shows that there is some contrast between the two which would imply that the Tal Shiar is far from defeated if they do have the means to patrol those systems.
Except you ignore the fact that Hobus has a Tal Shiar base on it. Its not far flung, nor is it particularly difficult to patrol one of the very last refuges you have.
So I guess Sela is a liar too then? Ok, she may be but then we can start to question everything and all statements ever made.
It wasn't Hobus btw, it was Nopada. A planet with, as far as we know, only a desert-ed (quite literally) base on it.
Comments
Difficult to answer, they lost one of six transport hubs but we don't know if they could rebuilt it and how important this loss was to them. It was the last episode so we can't really say much about it.
Anyway, what I meant was that people have, in the past on here, pretended that we (as in, we: the players during STF's and missions) defeated the collective or at least severly weakened them. But in reality, we have only managed to push them back. After the Borg assimilated multiple planets and a Starbase, built some stuff in our and fluidic space and assimilated a small Klingon fleet and building a base on the surface of Vega colony, we pushed them back. But this all happened in our space and we never brought the fight to the Borg. Except maybe during Borg Disconnected but even that is questionable as we don't know the location of the Unimatrix. It could well be part of an invasion force somewhere in the Delta Quadrant on the edge of Borg space. Or, given that the Voth can transwarp and that the Undine managed to arrive in the Alpha Quadrant in some way, it may even be located there somewhere.
Even though the Tal Shiar also lost two of their important leaders (Hakeev and Raul or Ruul), they still played a role througout the later arcs. So thanks for bringing that up, it proves once again that your assumption that the Na'kuhl are no longer involved in anything after losing two of their leaders is not based on any substantial evidence.
I don't have the exact quote of the Queen, but I believe she says something like 'The collective will not fall here. I will not allow it.' That's open to interpretation, especially since she adds the word 'here'. It's an indication that it's just another force, one of many probably. Borg space is huge, they have probably assimilated thousands of homeworlds.
And Borg Disconnected gives no substantial evidence of the location of events either as I noted in my other post. Even if we were in Borg territory there, it would be the first time that we actually did some damage to the Borg in their own space. And, as noted, it doesn't have to be core territory.
Sela specifically mentions that the Star Navy does not have 'the means to patrol far-flung systems'. So that the ships you encounter there must be Tal Shiar. That obviously shows that there is some contrast between the two which would imply that the Tal Shiar is far from defeated if they do have the means to patrol those systems.
Tell me, if you're not willing to consider that things may be open for debate, why exactly then are you participating in those debates?
Since this is leading nowhere, I'll just leave it at this. But perhaps you should reconsider something: don't call people liars when they are basing their statements on game-related events and canon. It's all fine if you, based on assumptions, want to pretend everything is perfectly clear and not open to debate, but you may want to realise that you're as much making stuff up by just assuming things without providing evidence for your statements.
So I guess Sela is a liar too then? Ok, she may be but then we can start to question everything and all statements ever made.
It wasn't Hobus btw, it was Nopada. A planet with, as far as we know, only a desert-ed (quite literally) base on it.