AoY TOS Uniform colours

captainkoltar

Hi All

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere previously, but... How come security officers in the TOS period of the game are wearing mustard uniforms rather than red?

Cheers

K

kylethetrue

Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.

isthisscience

kylethetrue wrote: »

Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.

Yes and no. TOS Security came under operations which was red. You can say tatical was gold but we never really had tactical - we had Sulu who was helm pressing fire which is why he wore gold. Problem we have here is Operations and Engineering are treated as one thing in STO so when you apply a TOS color division based off TNG you get 2 of the 3 branches in red (or end up with engineers wearing gold).

Department (STO dept) - TOS - TNG
Command ("Tactical") - GOLD - RED
Security ("Tactical") - RED - GOLD
Operations ("Engineering") - GOLD - GOLD
Engineering ("Engineering")- RED - GOLD
Science ("Science") - BLUE - BLUE
Medical ("Science") - BLUE - BLUE

Something like that.

Anyway, the root is fitting 6 groupes into 3 divided different ways with the current system producing one problem: red shirts wear gold.

captainkoltar

Personally I'd have had them wear red, and if the player wants to, they can switch them to gold themselves. The idea that the original redshirts do not actually wear red shirts is a bit silly in my view.

jorantomalak

Ok op idk if you ever wached the ToS era shows, tactical officers wore mustard green, med and sci wore powder blue, and engineers and meat shields wore crimson red.

angrytarg

I noticed that as well. I mean they are called redshirts. No argument putting them in gold makes sense, STO itself puts security in the (wrong) category and makes them red in 2409 - why not in AoY?

captainkoltar

jorantomalak wrote: »

Ok op idk if you ever wached the ToS era shows, tactical officers wore mustard green, med and sci wore powder blue, and engineers and meat shields wore crimson red.

Yep I have. As has been posted, we never really had Tactical in TOS. Sulu and Chekov were Helmsman and Navigator respectively. Memory Alpha calls these Command positions, similar to how the Helm officer in the TNG era shows was a Command position.

donitiar

In one of the interviews, Al Rivera said they decided to separate tactical and operations.
Apparently breaking canon on uniforms is ok, but adding races that weren't seen onscreen is not.

evilmark444

I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.

warpangel

kylethetrue wrote: »

Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.

There is no tactical in canon. Only command, science and operation (=everything that isn't command or science).

Cryptic can make up their own uniforms for the 25th century, but in TOS, security wore red.

evilmark444 wrote: »

I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.

Yeah, I lolled at that too.

snoggymack22

On my ship, a Daedalus class vessel, not only do we all wear blue because we're allllll just a bunch of scientists smooshed into a tiny golfball hurtling through the great big galaxy, but we also sport the Daedalus badge on our chest.



It's a case of all us "blue" shirts sticking together, because the quarters are cramped!

jonsills

"Mustard green"? Joran, have you had your color vision checked lately?

evilmark444 wrote: »

I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.

I put her in red as soon as I accepted her as my first crewmember, because she's definitely Security.​​

kodachikuno

Honest answer? Because STO shoehorned themselves into a corner by mashing "Command" into the "Tactical" class at launch and it never quite fit well, a few years later it bit em in the balls.... aside from that the others posted the answers.

giovanniblasini

There was some cross-training and uniform colors in the original series, too. Spock, the first officer, wore blue, and setting aside the oddities of the Galileo Seven, had to have command training to be able to be first officer. Scotty, the chief engineer, took command on the bridge regularly. Ignoring the novels that made it clear they all went to command school, despite their differing career tracks, they all had to be command qualified in order to command the ship.

The way I divide it up for my TOS characters is:

First Officer: specialty other than my character's, wears department color, but with command badge.

Chief tactical officer: yellow, tactical track.
Security chief: red shirt, operations, tactical track.
Operations chief and chief engineer: Red shirts, engineering track.
Science and Medical: Whichever science officer has the med skills wears the doctor's uniform. Other is science.

evilmark444

My captain is the only one wearing gold, because I personally hate that color. My first officer is sci and wears blue with sci badge, and all other boffs except my medical officer wear red with ops badge.

dareau

jonsills wrote: »

"Mustard green"? Joran, have you had your color vision checked lately? ​​

Yeah, seems the film grain did a lot more to mess things up than give people migraines...

artan42

So far, I'm running,
Captain - Green (the tunic)
Tactical - Gold (like Sulu)
Security - Red (redshirts duh)
Engineering - Red (except they survive, 'cos they can tank)
Operations - Gold (Because reasons)
Medical - Light Blue (in the medical tunic)
Science - Blue (duh)

It took a while to decide whether tactical and operations should be red or gold and I may yet turn it around at some other point, we'll see.​​

peterconnorfirst

artan42 wrote: »

So far, I'm running,
Captain - Green (the tunic)
Tactical - Gold (like Sulu)
Security - Red (redshirts duh)
Engineering - Red (except they survive, 'cos they can tank)
Operations - Gold (Because reasons)
Medical - Light Blue (in the medical tunic)
Science - Blue (duh)

It took a while to decide whether tactical and operations should be red or gold and I may yet turn it around at some other point, we'll see.​​

Under what department would Uhura as com officer fall? Think she wore red for the most part of the shows.

artan42

Opperations. But she never had a department specified. Though I would have thought comms would be a command possition due to all the order relaying. Though TOS seemed to be remarkably inconsistent with Sulu and Checkovs jobs. Is Checkov the navigator, helm, tactical, security, assistant science officer, nurse ( ).

I'm not strictly sticking to TOS other than keepin their red/gold scheme the correct way around. For instance, all of my officers are wearing the 'male' uniforms. The captain is female and the crew is not entirely Human with a token Vulcan.

peterconnorfirst

artan42 wrote: »

Opperations. But she never had a department specified. Though I would have thought comms would be a command possition due to all the order relaying. Though TOS seemed to be remarkably inconsistent with Sulu and Checkovs jobs. Is Checkov the navigator, helm, tactical, security, assistant science officer, nurse ( ).

I suppose you are right. Fun thing is Uhura even had yellow uniform in the first few episodes of the first season. I bet on most of the back ground characters they just decided to use the color which fitted the actors best. Since I have the same crew on all of my 9 (now 10) chars I accidently made the same decision on one of the boffs which should be yellow but simply looks best in red.

Which reminds me… In the DS9 show where they went back in time Dax hardly had any business wearing red while Sisko and O’brien took their department seriously and switched colour.

artan42 wrote: »

I'm not strictly sticking to TOS other than keepin their red/gold scheme the correct way around. For instance, all of my officers are wearing the 'male' uniforms. The captain is female and the crew is not entirely Human with a token Vulcan.

Male and Female unis are a bit tricky too. I don’t recall ever seeing a female in a male one there. I just know on some very rare occasions there were some females which had put on a female upper but with trousers.

artan42

Well, after all, that was the exact reason red and gold were swapped for TNG and why Data was made Opperations instead of Science. Patrick Stewart looked better in red and Brent Spiner's makeup clashed with blue.

peterconnorfirst

artan42 wrote: »

Well, after all, that was the exact reason red and gold were swapped for TNG and why Data was made Opperations instead of Science. Patrick Stewart looked better in red and Brent Spiner's makeup clashed with blue.

Lol never knew that but yea, good decision! Other way around would look totally weird.

artan42

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Male and Female unis are a bit tricky too. I don’t recall ever seeing a female in a male one there. I just know on some very rare occasions there were some females which had put on a female upper but with trousers.

There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.

My headcanon departments for my STO crews are

Command (includes helm/navigation and communication) 23c 25c
Operations (includes security, supply and support) 23c 25c
Engineering 23c 25c
Tactical 23c 25c
Science 23c 25c
Medical 23c 25c

Those colours aren't all accurate, the nuances are a bit finer in game but I couldn't be bothered to look for the right colour codes...

Captain might choose a variant, the green tunic in the 23c or the white shoulders in 25c or a vest variant, whatever does still look uniform enough to be told belonging together. Medical wears a bright base in 25c (as STO does by default), there are a few engineering variants like overalls and "Male" and "Female" attire is completely up to the crew. 23c and 25c both support skirts (because they're just nicer to wear and when I created my TOS Tellarite captain she looked stunning in skirt and pantyhose) and I'd love to have kilts for male crewmen but Cryptic doesn't deliver. Sigh. Security usually wears trousers, especially in boarding parties or away teams. Speaking of away teams, there are different standard attires for a team's duty. In the 25c that's Oddyssey variants for ship duty, excursion for away teams and excursion with added parts to mimic a Hazard Suit for tactical teams.

jonsills

giovanniblasini wrote: »

There was some cross-training and uniform colors in the original series, too. Spock, the first officer, wore blue, and setting aside the oddities of the Galileo Seven, had to have command training to be able to be first officer. Scotty, the chief engineer, took command on the bridge regularly.

Spock also doubled as the ship's chief science officer; there appeared to be no bridge station for a dedicated "first officer" in Constitution-class ships. Therefore, blue tunic.

The captain can come through any track, so long as he/she is command-qualified - but as captain, you wear command gold, in Starfleet standards. (In STO, of course, you wear any color you like, including colors Starfleet didn't use in the 23rd century. I saw lots of black Starfleet unis in 23C ESD, standing around in Garrett's office.)​​

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.

My headcanon departments for my STO crews are

Command (includes helm/navigation and communication) 23c 25c
Operations (includes security, supply and support) 23c 25c
Engineering 23c 25c
Tactical 23c 25c
Science 23c 25c
Medical 23c 25c

Those colours aren't all accurate, the nuances are a bit finer in game but I couldn't be bothered to look for the right colour codes...

Captain might choose a variant, the green tunic in the 23c or the white shoulders in 25c or a vest variant, whatever does still look uniform enough to be told belonging together. Medical wears a bright base in 25c (as STO does by default), there are a few engineering variants like overalls and "Male" and "Female" attire is completely up to the crew. 23c and 25c both support skirts (because they're just nicer to wear and when I created my TOS Tellarite captain she looked stunning in skirt and pantyhose) and I'd love to have kilts for male crewmen but Cryptic doesn't deliver. Sigh. Security usually wears trousers, especially in boarding parties or away teams. Speaking of away teams, there are different standard attires for a team's duty. In the 25c that's Oddyssey variants for ship duty, excursion for away teams and excursion with added parts to mimic a Hazard Suit for tactical teams.

Most of my crews are a muddle, but my TOS crew has a system (listed above) but my Fed main in his Oddy has a system I spent a bit of time on.

Command - Red
Includes captain, XO, Second Officer (working in shifts because that's how a real ship would run, seriously, Riker and Picard at the same time is redundant), Helm, and Navigation (as the Oddy has slipstream and Transwarp an Nav is needed again)
Command Variant - White shouldered

Operations - Red
Computer technicians, magic button guys (like Harry was).
Operations Variant - None

Engineering - Red
Engineering Variant - Red Jumpsuit

Security - Grey
They are shipboard and landing party security because Starfleet categorically does not use marines.
Security Variant - Grey Hazard team type arrangement with kits and minor armour.

Tactical - Grey
The people that fire the ships weapons, open torpedo tubes, calibrate targeting systems etc.
Tactical Variant - None

Hangar Opps - Grey
Pilots and ground crew for shuttles.
Hanger Variant - Pilot costume. The VOY racing suit with the Iconian face visor thing.

Science - Blue
Bog standard blue shirts. In real life that's me. The one who's waving their Tricorder over some water just before something eats me.
Science Variant - White labcoat. Because I've ended picking that thing up instead of a coat too many times.

Medical - Blue
Safely locked away in sickbay and nowhere near the bridge.
Medical Variant - Blue labcoat

Transporter Opps - Blue
Who would trust them to engineers?
Transporter Variant - None

And

Intelligence - Black
Intelligence Variant - None

Ambassador - White
Ambassador Variant - White dress uniform.

The combadges indicate training not department. So a Navigator would have a sci combadge on a command uniform, or a Tactical officer would have a eng combadge on a tactical uniform. The captain, XO, and SO will have the blank combadges with no specialisation.​​

captainkoltar

Hi guys.

Rthanks for the input. Obviously I've put my security and tactical guys in their red shirts. I really find everyone's take on uniform colours interesting.

Incidentally, I've since decided that apart from my initial 3 TOS BOFFs I'm having every crew member wear a uniform from a different time period. This is mainly because I don't have the 23rd century uniforms so can't have 25th century BOFFs wear them.

evilmark444

captainkoltar wrote: »

Hi guys.

Rthanks for the input. Obviously I've put my security and tactical guys in their red shirts. I really find everyone's take on uniform colours interesting.

Incidentally, I've since decided that apart from my initial 3 TOS BOFFs I'm having every crew member wear a uniform from a different time period. This is mainly because I don't have the 23rd century uniforms so can't have 25th century BOFFs wear them.

I considered doing this with a toon a long time ago, but never leveled it. For my away team I had Enterprise, TOS, TWOK, TNG, and TNG film uniforms. If we can ever get Ent phase pistols and TWOK pulse phasers I may revisit it.