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The Vengeance's trait and console box....why not make it available to everyone?

So I get that the Vengeance is a Fed-only ship, and I get that you wanted to make its console and trait available to Romulans and Klingons (which is a very nice gesture!). I'm cool with all that, and I'm really very happy that Cryptic is providing more options for everybody to try out.

What I'm confused about is this: why is the console/trait box restricted ONLY to KDF and Romulans? Why not make it available for everybody?

Here's why I ask: I've been running a Fleet Guardian for some time now. I spent a lot of time and effort making it just the way I like it. Both the trait and console from this new ship are appealing to me....but the ship itself is not. Yet I'm not allowed to open the Kelvin Timeline Intel Dreadnought Equipment box because I'm not a Rom/KDF. So, from my perspective, I have to pay twice as much as KDF/Rom toons *and* grind a ship I don't want to use all the way to Lvl 5 in order to get access to the same items they do. I can understand needing to do all of that for players who want the ship....but I don't want the ship. I just want the parts that are useful to my existing ship.

I don't mean to seem ungrateful here. I know you put a lot of effort into making the ship, and it looks really cool....I just don't want to fly it. I'm happy with my Guardian. I want to be able to more easily access the cool new trait and console without breaking the bank on a ship I'm not going to fly. Is there any way that this can be changed so that the Kelvin Timeline Intel Dreadnought Equipment box can be opened by any toon, including Feds (and presumably, TOS Feds too)?
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Comments

  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    Because the Federation can get the ship. Then you can get both plus a ship!
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    The most OP ship ever made in the history of the game doesn't interest you? Ok..........
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    captsol wrote: »
    Because the Federation can get the ship. Then you can get both plus a ship!
    As mentioned previously, I don't really want the ship. So paying twice as much (more, if bought from the Exchange) for the items I actually want is not appealing to me, as a player who has no real interest in the Vengeance itself.
    The most OP ship ever made in the history of the game doesn't interest you? Ok..........
    Honest question: why should I care if the ship is "OP" or not?

    I thought I had made it pretty clear that I was happy with my existing ship, and wasn't interested in spending a fortune for a new one. I honestly couldn't care less how powerful it is. I'm content with my current ship. And last I'd checked, a Fleet Guardian was still plenty competitive in today's meta anyways, so it's not like it matters that much.

    At present, I have less than 150 lobi to my name. I've have to spend a considerable amount of money (in real life) to buy the ship for Lobi, or I'd have to spend at least 335 million EC (which is considerably more than I have) to buy it on the Exchange. Or, you know, they could make the trait/console box available to everybody, then I'm only spending about 120 million, which is much more reasonable for the items I'm looking to acquire.

    I'm not asking for this change because I don't value Cryptic's work on the ship. It's clear they did a good job. I just don't want the ship. I think this idea of providing consoles and traits inside of special boxes is a great idea that allows more choices for every faction and makes new content more affordable....but I don't understand why it's artificially locked away from Federation toons who don't really want to buy the whole ship. And that's why I'm asking Cryptic to consider changing it so that everybody can use these boxes, Feds included.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    I honestly do see your point since this is normally held as something you can get in the lock-box via a console/trait box,when we have faction specific ships with traits or consoles that are not otherwise available to the other two factions. Which is kinda why I would rather have seen them kick out either a full on carrier with a look inspired by the Narada for the romulans, and a ship like the one in the second mission fo he Aoy character missions which is a Gorn cruiser i believe.

    That ship in your sig Venarra that is from tng looks like a version of the gorn support science ship, though I know it is not an is from another race I think the Shelli something.

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    The most OP ship ever made in the history of the game doesn't interest you? Ok..........

    Vengeance is a powerful Cruiser but it is by far not "The most OP ship ever made in the history of the game" as I would rate a Fleet Eclipse / Fleet Qib, T6 Fleet Avenger, T6 Scimitar as on par or more powerful than it.

    Even if we restrict it to Fed Cruisers, which the Vengeance specifically is restricted to, the T6 Fleet Eclipse, T6 Fleet Avenger are on par with it.

    The Eclipse in particular offers just as much flexibility, power, and Full Intel access, all the Intel gimmicks, but has WAYYY better handling than the Vengeance. The Eclipse is also a C-Store ship that is unlocked for all your Fed Characters and if you want it at Fleet level, it's going to need a simple 1 FSM cost.

    On the flip side, Vengeance is a Lobi Store ship that will set you back 900 lobi or the stable exchange rate it goes for. As a lobi ship, it is 1 buy, 1 character unlock.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    As mentioned previously, I don't really want the ship. So paying twice as much (more, if bought from the Exchange) for the items I actually want is not appealing to me, as a player who has no real interest in the Vengeance itself.
    The same is true for the Astika, Zahl, and other useful traits that come with lobi ships. Virtually no one uses them, outside of grinding the traits that come with them. Cryptic doesn't want you to spend less EC/lobi.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    The same is true for the Astika, Zahl, and other useful traits that come with lobi ships. Virtually no one uses them, outside of grinding the traits that come with them. Cryptic doesn't want you to spend less EC/lobi.
    I was unaware that the Astika, Zahl, or any of the other Lobi ships you were going to name also provided their traits and consoles in a separate box with a considerably lower price tag.

    This is clearly a different case from any of those ships. Cryptic has provided us with a neat ship, and instead of making it exclusive to Feds, they are seemingly perfectly content to let KDF and Romulan toons still have access the console and trait at a lower price level. All I'm asking is for them to extend that offer to Federation toons as well, for those of us who have no particular vested interest in the ship itself.

    Do you have any actual reasons why they shouldn't do this?
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    I was unaware that the Astika, Zahl, or any of the other Lobi ships you were going to name also provided their traits and consoles in a separate box with a considerably lower price tag.
    They don't provide traits and consoles for those ships separately.
    Do you have any actual reasons why they shouldn't do this?
    Honestly, they shouldn't have done it the way it is. There "should" have been an equivalent ship for all factions. But since only Federation characters have access to the ship, it's fair that KDF/RR characters only have access to the discount box.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Honestly, they shouldn't have done it the way it is. There "should" have been an equivalent ship for all factions. But since only Federation characters have access to the ship, it's fair that KDF/RR characters only have access to the discount box.
    So it's fair for Federation characters to pay twice as much for the same items purely because they get a ship they have no intention of using?

    You have a very strange understanding of the word "fair", if I do say so myself. :/
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    Honestly, they shouldn't have done it the way it is. There "should" have been an equivalent ship for all factions. But since only Federation characters have access to the ship, it's fair that KDF/RR characters only have access to the discount box.
    So it's fair for Federation characters to pay twice as much for the same items purely because they get a ship they have no intention of using?

    You have a very strange understanding of the word "fair", if I do say so myself. :/
    Only a Federation player would call having exclusive access to the best ship in the game "unfair."
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Only a Federation player would call having exclusive access to the best ship in the game "unfair."
    Again with this nonsensical argument. Was I not clear enough the last two times that I said I didn't want the ship?

    Here, let me say it again: I do not care how powerful the ship is. I don't want it.

    If this were happening to a Rom or KDF ship, I'd still be saying the exact same thing. It seems like poor planning to deliberately make the console or the trait harder for one specific faction to access when it's a Lobi shop item. I don't see any real reason for it to be restricted in this way.

    So, I'll ask one final time: do you have any arguments OTHER than "b-but the ship is so OP guyz" that Fed toons shouldn't be allowed to have access to the exact same thing that Rom/KDF toons are getting?
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    Only a Federation player would call having exclusive access to the best ship in the game "unfair."
    Again with this nonsensical argument. Was I not clear enough the last two times that I said I didn't want the ship?

    Here, let me say it again: I do not care how powerful the ship is. I don't want it.

    So, I'll ask one final time: do you have any arguments OTHER than "b-but the ship is so OP guyz" that Fed toons shouldn't be allowed to have access to the exact same thing that Rom/KDF toons are getting?
    Rom/KDF toons don't have the exact same access either so like I said earlier. It's about as fair as it's going to get. Your suggestion is actually less fair.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I agree with the OP, it should be an option to just get the console/trait.

    Not everyone likes the ship, if they want to pick up the Trait and console then they should be able to.

    The OP is just making a suggestion, he's doing it in a concise and civil fashion.

    The Snarky comments are unnecessary.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Rom/KDF toons don't have the exact same access either so like I said earlier. It's about as fair as it's going to get. Your suggestion is actually less fair.
    How is it less fair for everybody to have equivalent access to the trait and console?

    Yes, I think it's unfortunate that the KDF and Romulan players don't get the ship. I'd rather have more ships that everybody can use. But that ship has already sailed in this case.

    What we have here is an item which allows players of certain factions to get highly desirable items at a lower price. It makes no sense that all factions shouldn't have access to that box. Every other starship trait box in the game is accessible to all three factions. Ditto with universal consoles. To restrict this item only to KDF/Rom players is not "more fair", it's considerably less so. Because you're obligating one faction to pay 2-3 times the value of the items for no reason, with the excuse being that they get a ship they don't want to use.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    Honestly, they shouldn't have done it the way it is. There "should" have been an equivalent ship for all factions. But since only Federation characters have access to the ship, it's fair that KDF/RR characters only have access to the discount box.
    So it's fair for Federation characters to pay twice as much for the same items purely because they get a ship they have no intention of using?

    You have a very strange understanding of the word "fair", if I do say so myself. :/

    Is it fair that KDF and ROM characters can't play TOS content? TRIBBLE for tat.

    An entire FED expansion, and FEDs still find something to cry about. Wow.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    ...Every other starship trait box in the game is accessible to all three factions.
    That's not true. For Feds, you have to actually buy the phantom escort if you want reciprocity for example. Or for say the KDF, you have to buy whatever KDF ship it is to get Overwhelming force.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    Note that the console is restricted to KT ships. You couldn't use it on your Guardian either way
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Note that the console is restricted to KT ships. You couldn't use it on your Guardian either way
    Wow I didn't even realize that. Looks like Cryptic has done OP a favor by making sure that he/she didn't throw 450 lobi away.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    sinn74 wrote: »
    Is it fair that KDF and ROM characters can't play TOS content? **** for tat.

    An entire FED expansion, and FEDs still find something to cry about. Wow.
    It's extremely unfortunate that nobody in these forums can apparently word their criticisms of this idea politely. The only criticisms thus far have been people complaining that I don't want the "OP" ship, or calling me a "Fed whiner" for politely asking. The latter of which makes no sense, because I have an equal number of Fed, KDF, and Romulan toons, and I've paid roughly equal amounts of real money gearing them up. But because I'm asking for something that would benefit Feds, everyone with an axe to grind against the Fed faction is out in force.

    I'm not really mad, I just sort of feel bad for you, because you're not actually hearing where I'm coming from. That said, I can see why people might feel discouraged to use this game's forums when the prevalent attitude to a politely worded suggestion is rudeness and mockery. Thankfully, the in-game community is far more polite than this.

    Were the situation reversed and this was a KDF or Rom ship, I'd still be making the exact same complaint. I don't think it makes sense to force any one faction to pay more for equivalent content. I'm in favor of more content for everybody, and equal treatment of content for everybody. I don't feel that anybody should have to pay more for an item just because they're part of a different faction. I'd prefer more ships for everybody to use....but in situations where that is not possible, I'd like everyone to have an equal opportunity to gain access to the console and trait. One faction paying 2-3 times as much is not "equal".

    Ideally I'd like to see this extended to all starship traits and consoles already in the game (though the latter would be more difficult since some consoles only work on certain ships). No reason that a KDF or Rom player shouldn't be able to buy access to a Fed ship's traits, and vice versa. It's a good system that I'm glad they've added. I just want to see it expanded further.
    That's not true.
    You've completely misinterpreted what I said. I said that every other starship trait available in box form is available to all factions, which is a true statement.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Note that the console is restricted to KT ships. You couldn't use it on your Guardian either way
    Oh? I don't see that restriction listed on the item's description. Are you sure about that?
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    The restriction only appears in an outdated piece of text accidentaly copied into the blog. the whole set is goes-anywhere.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    That's not true.
    You've completely misinterpreted what I said. I said that every other starship trait available in box form is available to all factions, which is a true statement.
    Reciprocity is available in box form but only for KDF and Romulans.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Reciprocity is available in box form but only for KDF and Romulans.
    Hrm, so it is. I stand corrected.

    That said, I think it should be the same for that ship, too. I don't agree with one faction having more difficult access to any items.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    Per the release notes:

    The AR Connie console is usable on any ship -
    This Console Mod can be equipped on any ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of these mods on any single ship.

    But the Vengeance console cannot be used on the Guardian -
    This Console Mod can be equipped on any Kelvin Timeline ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of these mods on any single ship.

    So even if you could open the box, you can't use it on the Guardian.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Per the release notes:

    The AR Connie console is usable on any ship -
    This Console Mod can be equipped on any ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of these mods on any single ship.

    But the Vengeance console cannot be used on the Guardian -
    This Console Mod can be equipped on any Kelvin Timeline ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of these mods on any single ship.

    So even if you could open the box, you can't use it on the Guardian.
    That's a shame. Especially since the item itself doesn't say that in its description. :/

    Ah well. I still think the notion of allowing traits/consoles to be universal across all factions is a good idea to consider for future ships, at least. Here's hoping.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,928 Arc User
    Oh? I don't see that restriction listed on the item's description. Are you sure about that?

    As @seaofsorrows quoted the notes, I'm afraid it's true (I'm on mobile and couldn't be bothered to copy the blog text, that's a pain... *g*). However maybe it's an oversight, better ask for verification but do so before you spend the lobi on either the pack or the ship :)​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • venarravenarra Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    asuran14 wrote: »
    I honestly do see your point since this is normally held as something you can get in the lock-box via a console/trait box,when we have faction specific ships with traits or consoles that are not otherwise available to the other two factions. Which is kinda why I would rather have seen them kick out either a full on carrier with a look inspired by the Narada for the romulans, and a ship like the one in the second mission fo he Aoy character missions which is a Gorn cruiser i believe.

    That ship in your sig Venarra that is from tng looks like a version of the gorn support science ship, though I know it is not an is from another race I think the Shelli something.

    It's the Husnock Battleship from the ST:TNG episode _The Survivors_. It's the one were god-like Kevin Uxbridge explains to Picard he is guilty of genocide, "You don't understand... I killed them all." It was a nasty ship, if I remember correctly...
  • thelordofshadesthelordofshades Member Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    As mentioned previously, I don't really want the ship. So paying twice as much (more, if bought from the Exchange) for the items I actually want is not appealing to me, as a player who has no real interest in the Vengeance itself.
    With price setting it's always about the balance between number of sales and income per 1 sale. Apparently, Cryptic has some evidence that enough people will still buy the ship together with the trait and console, including the cases when they don't have any vested interest in the ship itself, to compensate for the loss of buyers of ship&trait box only.

    Some people on this forums have a strange notion that the number of sales always beats fewer more expensive sales, which is blatantly untrue.

  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Aha! Good news for folks like myself!

    A quote from Borticus, courtesy of Reddit:
    This is incorrect. The Vengeance console is also any ship, any slot.

    I'll see about getting a correction made to the blog.

    So the console can indeed be wielded on any ship, including my Guardian. I'm quite pleased to hear this news, as it means I might just have another handy little console to play around with. :)
    As mentioned previously, I don't really want the ship. So paying twice as much (more, if bought from the Exchange) for the items I actually want is not appealing to me, as a player who has no real interest in the Vengeance itself.
    With price setting it's always about the balance between number of sales and income per 1 sale. Apparently, Cryptic has some evidence that enough people will still buy the ship together with the trait and console, including the cases when they don't have any vested interest in the ship itself, to compensate for the loss of buyers of ship&trait box only.

    Some people on this forums have a strange notion that the number of sales always beats fewer more expensive sales, which is blatantly untrue.
    I can't speak for others, but if I were able to buy the trait and console box, I would probably shell out money for keys right now just to buy that box. I'm not nearly as keen about doing it (read: almost 100% guaranteed I won't do it, unless I win the lottery tomorrow or something) to get the ship, trait, and console.

    So that's at least one person whose money they aren't getting. Not intending to suggest that lower prices always win. Of course there's a balancing point. But Cryptic's ships already err on the side of being too expensive for many players to begin with, IMO. So I'm not sure I'd say they're anywhere near that point. *shrug*
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