Star Trek game world logistics

goodscotch

I've always found that what's missing in many MMO's are the mechanics of dealing with the game world's logistics. Using STO as an example...what does it take to keep a starship up and running in good order? I was actually glad to see so many DOFF assignments that dealt with maintenance and repair, many of them adding bonuses if a random critical success is achieved. I was thinking it would be "game world realistic" if certain things were added. Just as an example...we're constantly "selling" garbage equipment, consoles, weapons, engines, shield systems, etc., for energy credits. The game term or button that you hit to start this process is called 'Recycle'. It would be nice if you had to actually do something besides click buttons to harvest those energy credits. Whether that be visit a space junkyard for decommissioned ships or haggle with a Ferengi merchant/trader or even negotiate with Orion privateers. To me that would add depth to the game. Maybe any one of those options might give more energy credits or less depending on a some kind of random factor just as the DOFF assignments have chances for various outcomes. To take this example even deeper...what if those various avenues were only available to you if you ran certain missions and made certain contacts? Wouldn't that be more "game world realistic" and provide a richer Star Trek Universe experience? Of course, there's always the Exchange if you think you have something that someone else might really want.

I'm sure some players will respond that this would drive them nuts if they had to stop off at a given destination to do something like this, but I think it would add depth to the game. Perhaps make it optional by creating a toggle to turn it on/off. If it's off you can simply recycle junk items through the one-click button method already available.

tom61sto

"what does it take to keep a starship up and running in good order?" Based off Voyager, almost nothing. Very little attention given to such things for the Fed title ship, and even less for the ~200 Year Old D-7 Klingon ship that got there by Warp, not the Caretaker.

As far as full immersion with trading, which wasn't a particularly large issue in Star Trek, I don't see them adding anything like that unless they could monetize it somehow. There's already vendors that give you more for your stuff than just Recycling from the inventory or Replicator, just they don't care what you Sell them.

kyrrok

Sounds like a good idea but that to me sounds like it only adresses what to do with the junk. It would be even better if there was a way to take a mission like that and turn weapons with trash mods like [acc] [snare] and replace those mods with preferable ones. Preferably it won't just become another whale's paradise as the exchange already is. The game needs something for those of us who don't have a solid billion each toon to be able to get something worthwhile.

dareau

*Alert, wall of text. Alert, wall of text...*

Keep the following in mind - the entire existence of the energy credit "economy" is a method to... shoehorn... a "standard" gaming / MMO financial system into a future in which an active monetary economy was... dispensed with... via the advent of technology.

Same with Dil, if you really want to look at it.

Now, what I speak draws heavily off of hazy memory of hypothesis I read as a kid, so it's a lot of "fan-TRIBBLE" instead of canon, however, it's also fairly logical, rational, and most likely applies. Hence why I'm even posting it:

The Replicator is, arguably, the one piece of techonology that everybody wants but doesn't realize that it utterly destroys an economy. Being able to take in any matter and have it come out as whatever is desired - as long as there's sufficient energy to power the replicator - thrashes an economy.

So why did Kirk still use "credits"? That hypothesis I read - if not actually mentioned somewhere in canon, but I don't recall it - is that Kirk and co. used "Energy Credits" - the same stuffs "we" use in STO. Because while matter is extremely easy to come by (ran out of recycling? Let's cannibalize this asteroid), energy was not - especially in a world that required Dilithium to focus Matter/Antimatter reactions to the point of usability - and said Dilithium depleted itself in running the reaction and was an extremely "scarce" material, so it was reserved for the starships / occasional starbase.

So, fusion reactors "create" power at a "slow" rate, batteries store it for the inevitable runs on the replicators, and people are "limited" in their use of the replicator by how many "energy credits" they've accumulated - because that's how they allocated and tracked the use of the system's energy limit and ensured that the replicators would never "run dry".

Well, by TNG, and it's statement that they can "recrystallize Dilithium", the "new" limit on how much power there is to fuel the replication systems is how much antimatter and supplies they can keep in the area - and how many M/AM reactors they can build. And it sure seems that Antimatter is nowhere near as "limited" as TOS's dilithium roadblock. That's why instead of getting "Easy and cheap to build nutrition pills/blocks", everyone always ate full meals. Picard could swim through glasses of "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot" - instead of running to the sink that still used "treated and recycled water".

By 2409, where the "player's personal (sub-)fleet" runs it's own Dilithium Mine, I shouldn't have to "craft" a TR-16B. I should be able to walk over to my ship's replicator and say "Computer, I need a TR-16B for this assignment" and have it materialize. On the odd belief that I can use whatever stuffs on my ship and not the "Standard Organizational Issue", I don't need to "hunt" for one off the debris of the enemies that I vanquish, I can walk up to the replicator after it's leared how to make them and go "Computer, I need 6x Arrays that focus whatever and are tuned to function in (condensed into mod names) manner installed on my ship" and poof - there they are. Because there should be "so much energy" and "matter" available so that I am not limited in how I want to build my ship.

But obviously, that don't translate into "game". There's no "striving", no "goal", in this instant gratification world fully powered replicators provide. So, Cryptic had to return to Kirk's "energy credit" system to "reinstill" these "values" to the game...

goodscotch

tom61sto wrote: »

Based off Voyager, almost nothing. Very little attention given to such things for the Fed title ship, and even less for the ~200 Year Old D-7 Klingon ship that got there by Warp, not the Caretaker.
...unless they could monetize it somehow.

Please...enough with this unless it's monetized it can never be mentality. I realize Cryptic has to make money, but they also have to make the game experience better for the players who pay money. If they stop making the game better, players will eventually leave it. They've done quite a number of things in the past that didn't deal with a purchase. Not everything can or should be monetized.

As far as starships needing nothing whatsoever to remain running, especially ones virtually trapped a great distance from their system of origin, I'm not buying that premise simply because it wasn't mentioned much in the series. The reality is, it was mentioned and shown often in the series as the crew of Voyager was always concerned and scrounging to maintain their levels of foodstuffs, power and parts. We can only surmise that the Klingon crew of the D7 they encountered in the episode Prophecy had to do the same and had been doing that for a much longer time than Voyager's crew had been. Getting away from the Voyager series, which was unique because they were far from home, a number of shows in each series mentioned that ships were being refitted or overhauled or serviced, etc. It was something that popped up repeatedly throughout. Not every episode, but it was there on occasion. The Trek technology is far better than we experience in our reality, but it's still technology nevertheless and they still had to deal with machines and systems that broke and required maintenance and replacement.

Thanks for your reply...I disagree.

kyrrok

goodscotch wrote: »

tom61sto wrote: »

Based off Voyager, almost nothing. Very little attention given to such things for the Fed title ship, and even less for the ~200 Year Old D-7 Klingon ship that got there by Warp, not the Caretaker.
...unless they could monetize it somehow.

Please...enough with this unless it's monetized it can never be mentality. I realize Cryptic has to make money, but they also have to make the game experience better for the players who pay money. If they stop making the game better, players will eventually leave it. They've done quite a number of things in the past that didn't deal with a purchase. Not everything can or should be monetized.

I must agree, and I'll add there are certain things that businesses must do to keep the business running. It can't be all about selling ships, bringing on celebrity voice actors and nothing else. There are just the cost of doing business. To ignore these costs, and repairs that they pay for is simply the practice of deadbeat devs. If they were in the apartment business, they'd be slumlords already with the way the game is.

tom61sto

goodscotch wrote: »

tom61sto wrote: »

Based off Voyager, almost nothing. Very little attention given to such things for the Fed title ship, and even less for the ~200 Year Old D-7 Klingon ship that got there by Warp, not the Caretaker.
...unless they could monetize it somehow.

Please...enough with this unless it's monetized it can never be mentality. I realize Cryptic has to make money, but they also have to make the game experience better for the players who pay money. If they stop making the game better, players will eventually leave it. They've done quite a number of things in the past that didn't deal with a purchase. Not everything can or should be monetized.

As far as starships needing nothing whatsoever to remain running, especially ones virtually trapped a great distance from their system of origin, I'm not buying that premise simply because it wasn't mentioned much in the series. The reality is, it was mentioned and shown often in the series as the crew of Voyager was always concerned and scrounging to maintain their levels of foodstuffs, power and parts. We can only surmise that the Klingon crew of the D7 they encountered in the episode Prophecy had to do the same and had been doing that for a much longer time than Voyager's crew had been. Getting away from the Voyager series, which was unique because they were far from home, a number of shows in each series mentioned that ships were being refitted or overhauled or serviced, etc. It was something that popped up repeatedly throughout. Not every episode, but it was there on occasion. The Trek technology is far better than we experience in our reality, but it's still technology nevertheless and they still had to deal with machines and systems that broke and required maintenance and replacement.

Thanks for your reply...I disagree.

While I have had fun in games where trading and cargo hauling was a thing, and on rare occasions it has come up in Star Trek, I don't think it'd be a particularly good fit for this game. What little interaction with traders and such owes more to the 'Wagon Train to the Stars' aspect, where we have to protect a wagon train from raiders, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the massive thing we call 'space', unless it's near a major choke point like a planet or starbase (even then, just barely with FTL drives that don't seem jam-able).

This is the first thread I recall seeing on this subject, so, it's obviously not a huge issue to the playerbase. If it doesn't add something to keep and/or attract a large number of players, it's probably not going to get put in with the costs it take to add anything to the game. The only exception, and even then it'd have to weighted against potential player reactions, is if it's to make money directly or indirectly.

goodscotch

tom61sto wrote: »

This is the first thread I recall seeing on this subject, so, it's obviously not a huge issue to the playerbase...The only exception, and even then it'd have to weighted against potential player reactions, is if it's to make money directly or indirectly.

I've seen realism suggestions like this before. If they're actually looking at everything they do from the perspective of it being a viable revenue stream...eventually that will become very plain to everyone who plays the game...and inevitably people will go elsewhere realizing they're being taken advantage of and that the quality and depth of the game isn't a priority. I certainly hope this isn't the case. I know it's a business and I have no qualms about getting a credit card out, but if it starts to get ridiculous and no improvements are made that don't require it...that's not good. I don't think this is the case though as they've come out with quite a bit that didn't require any payment. First thing that comes to mind is the expansion of sector space. I thought that added a lot of realism to the game and didn't cost the players anything.

ktonof1aq

Derrick Smart's Battlecruiser Millennium required you to send crew to sickbay, mess hall, required you to move them around, place teams on security, send crew to the shuttlebay, etc. This added a dimension to the game that I appreciated. Although it could get tedious, it left me feeling like I was not alone on a ship the size of an oil tanker (like our ships in STO).

Another thing I'd like them to include in STO is the star system or Hero Points like what they have in Champions On-Line. The following is from the champions online wiki "Hero Points (also known as Stars) affect your characters stats. A single star means that your hero is a sad panda. They won't fight as well, and it'll be hard to survive difficult engagements. Everything above two stars makes your character stronger than usual and allows you to survive especially difficult encounters!

A character gains Stars by completing missions and defeating villains. A character loses one star each time they are defeated."

That would make the PVP folks happy

ktonof1aq

Your ship also took damage requiring you to facet repairs. In STO you just blow up like an arcade game. I admit I have no idea what the demographics of this game are but figure that they went with the arcade field to maximize the player base.

bravecatherine

goodscotch wrote: »

I've always found that what's missing in many MMO's are the mechanics of dealing with the game world's logistics. Using STO as an example...what does it take to keep a starship up and running in good order? I was actually glad to see so many DOFF assignments that dealt with maintenance and repair, many of them adding bonuses if a random critical success is achieved. I was thinking it would be "game world realistic" if certain things were added. Just as an example...we're constantly "selling" garbage equipment, consoles, weapons, engines, shield systems, etc., for energy credits. The game term or button that you hit to start this process is called 'Recycle'. It would be nice if you had to actually do something besides click buttons to harvest those energy credits. Whether that be visit a space junkyard for decommissioned ships or haggle with a Ferengi merchant/trader or even negotiate with Orion privateers. To me that would add depth to the game. Maybe any one of those options might give more energy credits or less depending on a some kind of random factor just as the DOFF assignments have chances for various outcomes. To take this example even deeper...what if those various avenues were only available to you if you ran certain missions and made certain contacts? Wouldn't that be more "game world realistic" and provide a richer Star Trek Universe experience? Of course, there's always the Exchange if you think you have something that someone else might really want.

I'm sure some players will respond that this would drive them nuts if they had to stop off at a given destination to do something like this, but I think it would add depth to the game. Perhaps make it optional by creating a toggle to turn it on/off. If it's off you can simply recycle junk items through the one-click button method already available.

Grab a copy of the X3 series and you will thank me later.

bltrrn

goodscotch wrote: »

I've always found that what's missing in many MMO's are the mechanics of dealing with the game world's logistics. Using STO as an example...what does it take to keep a starship up and running in good order? I was actually glad to see so many DOFF assignments that dealt with maintenance and repair, many of them adding bonuses if a random critical success is achieved. I was thinking it would be "game world realistic" if certain things were added. Just as an example...we're constantly "selling" garbage equipment, consoles, weapons, engines, shield systems, etc., for energy credits. The game term or button that you hit to start this process is called 'Recycle'. It would be nice if you had to actually do something besides click buttons to harvest those energy credits. Whether that be visit a space junkyard for decommissioned ships or haggle with a Ferengi merchant/trader or even negotiate with Orion privateers. To me that would add depth to the game. Maybe any one of those options might give more energy credits or less depending on a some kind of random factor just as the DOFF assignments have chances for various outcomes. To take this example even deeper...what if those various avenues were only available to you if you ran certain missions and made certain contacts? Wouldn't that be more "game world realistic" and provide a richer Star Trek Universe experience? Of course, there's always the Exchange if you think you have something that someone else might really want.

I'm sure some players will respond that this would drive them nuts if they had to stop off at a given destination to do something like this, but I think it would add depth to the game. Perhaps make it optional by creating a toggle to turn it on/off. If it's off you can simply recycle junk items through the one-click button method already available.

I wouldn't mind this, at all. With the exception of that one Romulan patrol mission, I have enjoyed what small amounts of economic activity, has been seen in the storyline. At least there are a few Ferengi, and Orion RPers, that already do this sort of thing.

goodscotch

In my head it would be something that could be turned on/off by the player. If on, then when the Recycle button gets clicked on, you get a choice of speaking with a Ferengi merchant, Orion trader, Nausicaan pirate, or alien privateer. Each one may give you more or less for a particular type of item when you click. This could be random. There could also be certain "trading post" areas in sector space, for example, ship junkyards, seedy starbases, etc. that you could engage in recycling and also get random results from. The Ferengi might throw in a case of Romulan Ale with your energy credits because you have the item he's looking for. The Nausicaan might stiff you 100 EC and warp out with your merchandise in their cargo hold. The alien privateer might not be interested at all in any of the items you have...no sale.

bltrrn

goodscotch wrote: »

In my head it would be something that could be turned on/off by the player. If on, then when the Recycle button gets clicked on, you get a choice of speaking with a Ferengi merchant, Orion trader, Nausicaan pirate, or alien privateer. Each one may give you more or less for a particular type of item when you click. This could be random. There could also be certain "trading post" areas in sector space, for example, ship junkyards, seedy starbases, etc. that you could engage in recycling and also get random results from. The Ferengi might throw in a case of Romulan Ale with your energy credits because you have the item he's looking for. The Nausicaan might stiff you 100 EC and warp out with your merchandise in their cargo hold. The alien privateer might not be interested at all in any of the items you have...no sale.

Don't forget about the *likely* dozens of Romulan/Reman/Lib Borg warlords, operating out of the remaining Imperial Romulan territories.

goodscotch

bltrrn wrote: »

Don't forget about the *likely* dozens of Romulan/Reman/Lib Borg warlords, operating out of the remaining Imperial Romulan territories.

Exactly! Who knows what they would pay or not pay or swindle you out of?!!!

bltrrn

goodscotch wrote: »

bltrrn wrote: »

Don't forget about the *likely* dozens of Romulan/Reman/Lib Borg warlords, operating out of the remaining Imperial Romulan territories.

Exactly! Who knows what they would pay or not pay or swindle you out of?!!!

Gib Nanite Disruptors! lol