Where on earth did ANYONE get the idea that the story was making it out to be acceptable?
Showing that he did it, when he mostly likely did, isn't showing it as acceptable, it just presenting history. That's like saying a story set in the deep south during the civil war showing people being racist is them presenting it as acceptable... no... its just presenting how it was during that time.
I do agree that the story is not necessarily saying it is "acceptable". However, I do have to question why it is being presented AT ALL in a story for this particular game. I mean, there are plenty of bad things that have happened in real life that have no place being in the story of a Star Trek game. So while I don't necessarily think the story is saying "this is ok", I don't understand why this was written at all as a blog for this game.
I think this is one of the best " fiction pieces" so far! Had some nice treknobabble to it, brought in the " is fixing the timeline moral" argument, briefly. Then went on to tie the current N'kuhl story in with something that really happened on ancient earth. Seems like a good bit of research went into this, very nicely done!
( As for the pedo argument... the thought would have never crossed my mind if I hadn't read the last couple of posts. I believe that's what the writer intended. I just assumed that part was a typo or something I just missed completely.)
*************************** Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon Fighting 5th Attack Squadron The Devils Henchman
Well I for one am shocked and appalled. Who would have thought that bad things used to be socially acceptable in the past?
IMO, there are 2 distinctly separate points at hand:
1) on the one hand, it is true that pedophillia was 'accepted' in some cultures in the past.
2) on the other hand, why does that topic need to be discussed in a blog for this game?
No one familiar with history would really disagree with the first point, as that is simply part of historical fact(which does not mean I am saying it was "ok", but simply noting it happened). However, I think the second point is a valid question worth answering.
Some people need to be more familiar (or not, if just this tidbit in the bog already shocks them) with Hadrian and Antinous (who was between 18 and 20 when he died, BTW).
Well I for one am shocked and appalled. Who would have thought that bad things used to be socially acceptable in the past?
IMO, there are 2 distinctly separate points at hand:
1) on the one hand, it is true that pedophillia was 'accepted' in some cultures in the past.
2) on the other hand, why does that topic need to be discussed in a blog for this game?
No one familiar with history would really disagree with the first point, as that is simply part of historical fact(which does not mean I am saying it was "ok", but simply noting it happened). However, I think the second point is a valid question worth answering.
Some people need to be more familiar with Hadrian and Antinous (who was between 18 and 20 when he died, BTW).
Aye, some people don't quite realize the scale of IDIC. Besides, I don't see some whining about Ferengi polygamy, or what not, but two of age (remember, IDIC) people, can't be in a sexual/romantic relationship.
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Well, 4-20 is the birthday of a certain noted war criminal.
Why in the world is pedophilia being shown as an acceptable behavior?
Pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent. Antinousr was not pre-pubescent. He would have been a teenager. Illegal in most of the US states (But not all) and legal in most of Europe.
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Well, 4-20 is the birthday of a certain noted war criminal.
Though, tbh, Judaism of the classical world, looked more like conservative Islam does today.
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
The night is darker before the dawn. Even if Star Trek implies the night can last a a decade or a few millenia.
Also, it could be a reference, intentional or not, to the (in)famous TOS episode "The City on the Edge of Forever" where the TRIBBLE win WWII because a very nice, pacifist girl who was helping the poor, lived and advocated peace and the only way to have a bright future was to let her die.
Why in the world is pedophilia being shown as an acceptable behavior?
Pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent. Antinousr was not pre-pubescent. He would have been a teenager. Illegal in most of the US states (But not all) and legal in most of Europe.
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Yes it was a good thing. It was an excellent thing, and Im glad they didnt stop the revolt being crushed...
If they did, would you be here, would I be here...would the Federation be here, would Humans be in space, would humans be slaves to some alien species, or would we be eradicated...
Sorry, it had to happen...and I for one would have helped make sure it happened again...
Except you ignore the stated point of the blog which is that millennia of war and violence eventually lead to a greater understanding the brought humanity together into a unified coalition which in turn created the Federation which brought together over 985 billion peoples across 183 members worlds, and 7,128 affiliate powers, and that by preventing this rebellion, this united Federation wouldn't exist.
Not at all. The stated point of the blog - as articulated by Professor Barkley - is that is is arrogant to assume that our timeline is the 'real' one. It has been manipulated by countless temporal interventions.
Who are we to claim that the timeline which led to the formation of the Federation - itself a product of multiple temporal interventions, is more valid than one in which humanity never experienced those dark chapters, thanks to one further temporal intervention.
Why in the world is pedophilia being shown as an acceptable behavior?
Pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent. Antinousr was not pre-pubescent. He would have been a teenager. Illegal in most of the US states (But not all) and legal in most of Europe.
IDIC.
I don't understand your little wink. I am pointing out that worlds have meanings. Claiming this is a story about pedophilia is factually incorrect. Antinous was not a pre pubescent child. And Hadrian's relationship with him although inapropriate by our standards would actually be legal in most of Eurore and some of the US. Using a loaded and incorrect word like pedophilia doesn't help the conversation.
BTW this is a picture of Antinous. As he looked when he died. Very much not a child.
Quite to the contrary. The author uses that specific phrase more than once, which is what caused me to question what I was reading. "His Favorite" is clearly a euphemistic way of hiding male child to male adult sex.
If you think pedophilia is acceptable, then I can see why you might want to defend this. As for me, I'll have no part in it.
No actually "His Favorite", simply means that...his favorite. He was an Emperor, with all that entails and would have had more than one lover...
As for pedophelia it was a widely accepted custom in the Greek and Roman world, if this bothers you, you should obviously never take any form of history dealing with either of those cultures...or Middle-Eastern cultures, or some Asian cultures...ya know, just dont do anything with history...that way you need not be worried about being offended
Why in the world is pedophilia being shown as an acceptable behavior?
Pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent. Antinousr was not pre-pubescent. He would have been a teenager. Illegal in most of the US states (But not all) and legal in most of Europe.
IDIC.
I don't understand your little wink. I am pointing out that worlds have meanings. Claiming this is a story about pedophilia is factually incorrect. Antinous was not a pre pubescent child. And Hadrian's relationship with him although inapropriate by our standards would actually be legal in most of Eurore and some of the US. Using a loaded and incorrect word like pedophilia doesn't help the conversation.
BTW this is a picture of Antinous. As he looked when he died. Very much not a child.
Besides this particular incident from history makes good fodder for a time travel story. A mysterious death that has been wrapped in conspiracy theories for centuries. Although I don't think any of those conspiracy theories involve time traveling bat people.
Who are we to claim that the timeline which led to the formation of the Federation - itself a product of multiple temporal interventions, is more valid than one in which humanity never experienced those dark chapters, thanks to one further temporal intervention.
I said nothing about the VALIDITY if the timeline, only the benefits of it.
Don't try to move goalposts.
Eh? Puzzled by your response as I was pretty clear that I was challenging your assertion about the 'point' of the article (which you left out of your quote) - I don't believe the central point of the article is the cliched and tired old argument that 'Hitler/other bad things had to happen so we could learn from them and have a better, brighter future'
Instead I see the underlying point of the article as being about the perceived validity of our timeline. This was emphasised by Professor Barkley - our timeline is ALREADY the product of multiple changes made via time travel - many of which were undertaken deliberately by Starfleet personnel when it suited them (see ST4: The Voyage Home, VOY: Futures End, VOY: Endgame, Delta Recruits in STO, Midnight episode in STO, and many others).
Given that our timeline - which is evidentally VERY beneficial for us as it leads to the formation of the Federation - is itself the product of multiple deliberate temporal interventions - is it not hypocritical to insist to races like the Na'Khul that it is the correct one, just because this particular timeline happens to benefit us? After all, we have no problem in meddling with the timeline when it suits us. I believe this is the central point of the article, not the point you raised.
This was emphasised by Professor Barkley - our timeline is ALREADY the product of multiple changes made via time travel - many of which were undertaken deliberately by Starfleet personnel when it suited them (see ST4: The Voyage Home, VOY: Futures End, VOY: Endgame, Delta Recruits in STO, Midnight episode in STO, and many others).
And most of the time travels happened to fix a meddling by other time travelers (like Kirk and Spock preventing McCoy from saving Keeler), were accidents (Defiant going through an anomaly), selfish uses (Soran in Generations) or predestination paradoxes (which apparently in Star Trek aren't the default result of time travels). And most of them happened before the signing of the Temporal Accords.
I guess one of the reasons of the signing was "OK, let's stop this before we get even more confused or break time together".
2) on the other hand, why does that topic need to be discussed in a blog for this game?
I don't see any "discussion" in the blog at all. It's a historical in-joke: time traveling aliens were responsible for a mysterious death thousands of years ago. A very common sci-fi trope.
I think the blog post was fantastic, by the way. Very well-written and interesting.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Where on earth did ANYONE get the idea that the story was making it out to be acceptable?
Showing that he did it, when he mostly likely did, isn't showing it as acceptable, it just presenting history. That's like saying a story set in the deep south during the civil war showing people being racist is them presenting it as acceptable... no... its just presenting how it was during that time.
Lets move this topic away from trying to imply it is somehow endorsing paedophilia, to a 'Fridge Logic' moment that just hit me when I went to get a glass of water a few minutes ago...
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
I supremely doubt that. Did you listen to Vosk? He's not concerned with helping all species, but making the Na'khul the top dogs.
Aside from that for all we know a Na'khul assassin killing the wrong person at the wrong time creates a split in the timeline that creates the mirror universe and Terran Empire.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Except you ignore the stated point of the blog which is that millennia of war and violence eventually lead to a greater understanding the brought humanity together into a unified coalition which in turn created the Federation which brought together over 985 billion peoples across 183 members worlds, and 7,128 affiliate powers, and that by preventing this rebellion, this united Federation wouldn't exist.
Perfect peace forever isn't possible, and erasing the wars of the past doesn't make you good.
Quite correct. The mistakes of the past lead to understanding in the future. As James Kirk once said, "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away I NEED my PAIN."
The same goes for the mistakes of the past. They're the lessons that we as a species have to go through. It's the Prime Directive. There are some things you can't just teach but have to come to an understanding of organically as a civilization.
Except you ignore the stated point of the blog which is that millennia of war and violence eventually lead to a greater understanding the brought humanity together into a unified coalition which in turn created the Federation which brought together over 985 billion peoples across 183 members worlds, and 7,128 affiliate powers, and that by preventing this rebellion, this united Federation wouldn't exist.
Not at all. The stated point of the blog - as articulated by Professor Barkley - is that is is arrogant to assume that our timeline is the 'real' one. It has been manipulated by countless temporal interventions.
Who are we to claim that the timeline which led to the formation of the Federation - itself a product of multiple temporal interventions, is more valid than one in which humanity never experienced those dark chapters, thanks to one further temporal intervention.
I happen to disagree with her assessment, there had to be a timeline that existed before technological intervention. The Federation does not exist because of temporal intervention but despite it. If the Borg hadn't stepped in, then Cochrane still makes his flight and the Federation still comes into existence. As in all rivers there was a first bit of water that flowed down the path first.
Besides this particular incident from history makes good fodder for a time travel story. A mysterious death that has been wrapped in conspiracy theories for centuries. Although I don't think any of those conspiracy theories involve time traveling bat people.
I'm quite fond of that little note. It reminds me a bit of Assassin's Creed. As much as I dislike time travel stories, using temporal assailants to explain the *Robert Stack voice* "Unsolved Mysteries" of our past is pretty smooth.
I wonder if we'll have to go back and time and prevent Surak from suffering an early assassination? Maybe even T'Plana-Hath.
This was emphasised by Professor Barkley - our timeline is ALREADY the product of multiple changes made via time travel - many of which were undertaken deliberately by Starfleet personnel when it suited them (see ST4: The Voyage Home, VOY: Futures End, VOY: Endgame, Delta Recruits in STO, Midnight episode in STO, and many others).
And most of the time travels happened to fix a meddling by other time travelers (like Kirk and Spock preventing McCoy from saving Keeler), were accidents (Defiant going through an anomaly), selfish uses (Soran in Generations) or predestination paradoxes (which apparently in Star Trek aren't the default result of time travels). And most of them happened before the signing of the Temporal Accords.
I guess one of the reasons of the signing was "OK, let's stop this before we get even more confused or break time together".
I thought that Walker made that last point abundantly clear before he took us to the signing of the Temporal Accords. It's also supported by the temporal reset that Archer witnessed after Vosk died.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Ok seriously? this discussion is ridiculous. the point of the story was not to show/endorse/whatever anything. it simply took an untouched historical conspiracy point, stuck a Na'Kuhl in it, and showed that person die saving someone. using established historical FACT does not mean any sort of agenda, no matter the underlying issues. I'm sorry, but history happened. right or wrong, sticking your head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen is silly. they needed something historical, but obscure and mysterious, to make their Krenim Wunderkind look brilliant. this worked.
The only people i see pushing an agenda here are the people who repeatedly protest everything and anything acting as if its all a conspiracy to poison their minds.
While she is a fictitious character, its amazing that even imaginary members of academia like to be over dramatic and hypocritical.
She speaks to arrogance of people believing thier timeline is the right one, yet helps someone whos job it is to protect the current "real" timeline to do thier job, and even assigns her students to help with the task.
I could see how the story might have been misconstrued by some as Antonius being a child, the "smaller shape", "Greek youth", "beardless face", etc. While history suggests he was 18-19 (taken as a "favourite" at 16-17), the writer did a poor job in describing him.
Also, keep in mind not everyone was a history major in college. I excelled at history in school and aced my Early Western Civ' course in college, and the names of Hadrian's lovers were not a topic of discussion, as there is a great deal of more important events and people to cover in that course/subject. Surely, Cincinnatus was a better person to spend time discussing instead, and if more people learned the lesson he presented to mankind, the world would be a better place.
Comments
I do agree that the story is not necessarily saying it is "acceptable". However, I do have to question why it is being presented AT ALL in a story for this particular game. I mean, there are plenty of bad things that have happened in real life that have no place being in the story of a Star Trek game. So while I don't necessarily think the story is saying "this is ok", I don't understand why this was written at all as a blog for this game.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
( As for the pedo argument... the thought would have never crossed my mind if I hadn't read the last couple of posts. I believe that's what the writer intended. I just assumed that part was a typo or something I just missed completely.)
Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon
Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
The Devils Henchman
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
You're REALLY not familiar with Classical Hellenic culture, are you?
Ave Antinous!
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
IMO, there are 2 distinctly separate points at hand:
1) on the one hand, it is true that pedophillia was 'accepted' in some cultures in the past.
2) on the other hand, why does that topic need to be discussed in a blog for this game?
No one familiar with history would really disagree with the first point, as that is simply part of historical fact(which does not mean I am saying it was "ok", but simply noting it happened). However, I think the second point is a valid question worth answering.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Aye, some people don't quite realize the scale of IDIC. Besides, I don't see some whining about Ferengi polygamy, or what not, but two of age (remember, IDIC) people, can't be in a sexual/romantic relationship.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
By trying to kill Emperor Hadrian, the Krenim student suggests that the Na'khul were apparently trying to prevent/change the outcome of the Bar Kokhba revolt, an event of major historical importance.
This failed revolt led to the Romans engaging in the literal ethnic cleansing of Judea, the deaths of around 600 thousand Jews, and the scattering of the remainder of the Jewish diaspora. The consequences of this event would eventually directly lead to some of the worst chapters in human history.
You realise what this means? The Na'khul were being true to their philosophy of using time travel to help species. They were trying to prevent/fix some of the most horrendous and appalling chapters in human history: the Crusades, the Holocaust and the current Israel/Palestinian crisis
We are supposed to think its a good thing that they were stopped from doing so...
Well, 4-20 is the birthday of a certain noted war criminal.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Though, tbh, Judaism of the classical world, looked more like conservative Islam does today.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Also, it could be a reference, intentional or not, to the (in)famous TOS episode "The City on the Edge of Forever" where the TRIBBLE win WWII because a very nice, pacifist girl who was helping the poor, lived and advocated peace and the only way to have a bright future was to let her die.
IDIC.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Yes it was a good thing. It was an excellent thing, and Im glad they didnt stop the revolt being crushed...
If they did, would you be here, would I be here...would the Federation be here, would Humans be in space, would humans be slaves to some alien species, or would we be eradicated...
Sorry, it had to happen...and I for one would have helped make sure it happened again...
Who are we to claim that the timeline which led to the formation of the Federation - itself a product of multiple temporal interventions, is more valid than one in which humanity never experienced those dark chapters, thanks to one further temporal intervention.
I don't understand your little wink. I am pointing out that worlds have meanings. Claiming this is a story about pedophilia is factually incorrect. Antinous was not a pre pubescent child. And Hadrian's relationship with him although inapropriate by our standards would actually be legal in most of Eurore and some of the US. Using a loaded and incorrect word like pedophilia doesn't help the conversation.
BTW this is a picture of Antinous. As he looked when he died. Very much not a child.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Antinous_Pio-Clementino_Inv256_n3.jpg
No actually "His Favorite", simply means that...his favorite. He was an Emperor, with all that entails and would have had more than one lover...
As for pedophelia it was a widely accepted custom in the Greek and Roman world, if this bothers you, you should obviously never take any form of history dealing with either of those cultures...or Middle-Eastern cultures, or some Asian cultures...ya know, just dont do anything with history...that way you need not be worried about being offended
I agree with your assesment, I'm just reminding some that IDIC is also about culture, not just species.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Instead I see the underlying point of the article as being about the perceived validity of our timeline. This was emphasised by Professor Barkley - our timeline is ALREADY the product of multiple changes made via time travel - many of which were undertaken deliberately by Starfleet personnel when it suited them (see ST4: The Voyage Home, VOY: Futures End, VOY: Endgame, Delta Recruits in STO, Midnight episode in STO, and many others).
Given that our timeline - which is evidentally VERY beneficial for us as it leads to the formation of the Federation - is itself the product of multiple deliberate temporal interventions - is it not hypocritical to insist to races like the Na'Khul that it is the correct one, just because this particular timeline happens to benefit us? After all, we have no problem in meddling with the timeline when it suits us. I believe this is the central point of the article, not the point you raised.
I guess one of the reasons of the signing was "OK, let's stop this before we get even more confused or break time together".
I don't see any "discussion" in the blog at all. It's a historical in-joke: time traveling aliens were responsible for a mysterious death thousands of years ago. A very common sci-fi trope.
I think the blog post was fantastic, by the way. Very well-written and interesting.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Real history cannot and should not be washed away.
Beat me to it.
I supremely doubt that. Did you listen to Vosk? He's not concerned with helping all species, but making the Na'khul the top dogs.
Aside from that for all we know a Na'khul assassin killing the wrong person at the wrong time creates a split in the timeline that creates the mirror universe and Terran Empire.
Quite correct. The mistakes of the past lead to understanding in the future. As James Kirk once said, "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away I NEED my PAIN."
The same goes for the mistakes of the past. They're the lessons that we as a species have to go through. It's the Prime Directive. There are some things you can't just teach but have to come to an understanding of organically as a civilization.
I happen to disagree with her assessment, there had to be a timeline that existed before technological intervention. The Federation does not exist because of temporal intervention but despite it. If the Borg hadn't stepped in, then Cochrane still makes his flight and the Federation still comes into existence. As in all rivers there was a first bit of water that flowed down the path first.
I'm quite fond of that little note. It reminds me a bit of Assassin's Creed. As much as I dislike time travel stories, using temporal assailants to explain the *Robert Stack voice* "Unsolved Mysteries" of our past is pretty smooth.
I wonder if we'll have to go back and time and prevent Surak from suffering an early assassination? Maybe even T'Plana-Hath.
I thought that Walker made that last point abundantly clear before he took us to the signing of the Temporal Accords. It's also supported by the temporal reset that Archer witnessed after Vosk died.
The only people i see pushing an agenda here are the people who repeatedly protest everything and anything acting as if its all a conspiracy to poison their minds.
She speaks to arrogance of people believing thier timeline is the right one, yet helps someone whos job it is to protect the current "real" timeline to do thier job, and even assigns her students to help with the task.
Also, keep in mind not everyone was a history major in college. I excelled at history in school and aced my Early Western Civ' course in college, and the names of Hadrian's lovers were not a topic of discussion, as there is a great deal of more important events and people to cover in that course/subject. Surely, Cincinnatus was a better person to spend time discussing instead, and if more people learned the lesson he presented to mankind, the world would be a better place.