Has the skill revamp done anything for PvP?

sophlogimo

Has it been improved in any way? What do you think?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

drake122svk

Well... to answer this, they kind of broke pvp.

orondis

I'm a cruiser with 53% all resist when not actively tanking, 17k shields and a hull of 110k. I die in 1 second to a volley from an escort, even with RSP popped. Only way way I've been able to resist it is with Invincible and Temporal Insight. Which, you know, doesn't help when the escort fires a second volley at you.

I can't say I'm surprised, given the absurd DPS I've been getting in 11.5. Tac cubes are dying like they're spheres.

yoda2005

Damage has improved and resistance has been lowered thanks to new pen skill stuff.
In my sci vessel I can still survive mist stuff though, at least if it isnt a premade, healers and heal stuff have improved, good for sci vessels.

delta

As for arena. More emphasis on team play (as it should be) rather than flying around at 200+ speeds like chickens with their heads cut off.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

autumnturning

sophlogimo wrote: »

Has it been improved in any way?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

autumnturning

Cryptic doesn't like to just merely nail the coffin shut ... they like to use these ...

risingwolfshadow

@orondis you might find that surviving the first volley is the most difficult thing about, I switch between a phantom and t5u defiant and even when I get pinned down or someone attempts an instavape (you can hear them buffing when they're preparing to attack) I immediately activate TT, BFI, APD, epte1 and have the mouse over rock&roll just in case. Also, everyone jousts now because a) they aren't very good pilots and b) they're flying too fast to aim properly so once your health is low enough BFI, evasive then ram them.

kyle223cat

I'm less tanky than I was before, but it's not because of a direct nerf to healers/tanks. More and more armor/shield penetration, damage boosts, debuffs, etc keep getting added to the game. You can only get so much damage resistance/shield hardness, shield and armor pen and damage can go up infinitely.

It used to be, a while ago, that a properly setup recluse could tank many escorts. Now sometimes it's a struggle to tank one escort.

delta

Agreed. The shield pen/armor pen is so high that it's counter intuitive to run a healer. I use to rely on resistance/hot heals such has hazards/a2si/extends, but it's become near impossible to heal multiple targets. Healing use to be fun and intuitive for me from season 2-8.5, now not so much. On another note though, I'm wondering if resilient shields would have a noticeable effect on the uber shield pen floating around now

kyle223cat

Resilient shields would help against shield penetration, but not by much since it's only 5% less bleedthrough.

mustrumridcully0

Shield Penetration has not actually increased, the skill was changed a week or two before release to not provide additional shield penetration, but to inflict more damage to shields. It's basically a negative shield hardness now. (That's why it is called "Shield Weakening" now.)

If you take more hull damage it's either because the shields go down more quickly, or hull penetration at work.

Or, possibly, the "resisting resists" fix is affecting you.

kyle223cat

Yeah I know, I was probably one of the reasons it was changed. Bringing things up on the Tribble forums can actually be helpful. Anyways, Shield Penetration is out of control. It never should have been shield pen in my opinion, it should have always been what is now shield weakening.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

kyle223cat

You can get 100% shield penetration now, I saw a post explaining it. Thanks to the starship traits, personal traits, and other abilities.

nandospc

The new skill tree brought more damage, hull and shield penetration (a lot of). Also, more crth/d and more damage again with strategist specialization Gg Cryptic
Anyway, i see more people into arena, and that's good.
The problem now is the spike damage, it is too high and sometimes (and not rarely) even good teams, like tno, grandpa, csi, re etc get wiped out from good pugs. The conclusion is a big mess, a big big mess and who will understand how to play in this meta, he/they will be the king. Partigen is always ok, drain maybe still the key of success even in this meta? We'll see...
Ah, watch out for these vapigens... the daemosh is a beast in that kind of builds... i warned you guys

Unknown

This content has been removed.

delta

Just experienced that in an arena earlier. Full shields and receiving hull damage as if my shields were down. It was kinda neat to watch, lol.

hyprodimus

deokkent wrote: »

kyle223cat wrote: »

You can get 100% shield penetration now, I saw a post explaining it. Thanks to the starship traits, personal traits, and other abilities.

OMG you're totally right, I forgot about those doffs for a sec there. I can't believe shield pen has now reached 100%. Wow... I remember the outcry in this very same PvP subforum when Cryptic released shield pen doffs at 30%. Somewhere around the time when LOR and the elachi were introduced.

Geez whiz, this is shocking.

Edit: Okay, now that I think about it, shield pen is over 100%. How does that translate in a combat situation? I realize the shield pen is not active at all times in some situations but what would 110% shield pen mean to the target under fire?

How does that work?

Space trait = 5%
Skilltree =10%
Intel Fleet = 10%
Intense focus = 6%
Doff = 30%
Resilient bleed through = 5%
Total = 66%

Thats no where near 100, and you need the doff to proc, and intel fleet to be up.

kyle223cat

hyprodimus wrote: »

deokkent wrote: »

kyle223cat wrote: »

You can get 100% shield penetration now, I saw a post explaining it. Thanks to the starship traits, personal traits, and other abilities.

OMG you're totally right, I forgot about those doffs for a sec there. I can't believe shield pen has now reached 100%. Wow... I remember the outcry in this very same PvP subforum when Cryptic released shield pen doffs at 30%. Somewhere around the time when LOR and the elachi were introduced.

Geez whiz, this is shocking.

Edit: Okay, now that I think about it, shield pen is over 100%. How does that translate in a combat situation? I realize the shield pen is not active at all times in some situations but what would 110% shield pen mean to the target under fire?

How does that work?

Space trait = 5%
Skilltree =10%
Intel Fleet = 10%
Intense focus = 6%
Doff = 30%
Resilient bleed through = 5%
Total = 66%

Thats no where near 100, and you need the doff to proc, and intel fleet to be up.

You forgot Self Modulating Fire, which is +50%, and there are also starship traits which increase shield penetration. Also, Intel Fleet 2 is +15% shield pen, along with armor pen.

The skill tree doesn't boost shield pen anymore, it was changed to shield weakening.

hyprodimus

Right, self modulating fire....although thats kind of random and has a long lockout. Intel takes 5 mins. But I do see how it can add up over 100%. THanks

Unknown

This content has been removed.

delta

Shield pen is getting a wee bit ridiculous.

orondis

Shield pen wouldn't be so bad, if so many people didn't rely on being shot at for them to do damage (FBP crutch users). They're the ones who die the fastest nowadays to escorts. Pop an engy team just before you fire and the FBP user is dead before the immunity ends.

Yet so many still rely on it.

kyle223cat

Shield Penetration is very bad no matter what way you look at it, as is armor penetration. I do not believe these mechanics should have ever been introduced, but that's just me.

kostamojenx

So far, after a fair bit of PVP gameplay, I have to say that the new tree and 11.5 in general has IMPROVED PVP.

Yes, it is actually better.

Why? Its far easier to kill anyone now, even lower-skilled players can make a run on a skilled player and be a threat, and someone decked out with the best gear can be rung pretty hard by someone running just very rare gear with standard builds.

A lot of the "specialty" builds like the Immunity chain builds, snooper builds, vape builds, and what not are all much more on-par with the rest of the playing field now. Its actually more entertaining than it has been.

delta

I will agree, the pvp landscape has improved since this last season. On how far it lasts, only time will tell. Now, I don't mind shield pen / armor reduction as a game mechanic. I think it is a viable mechanic, and I will not hate on individuals who choose that as their play style. HOWEVER, I do not agree that as a cruiser: support/healer player who feels dirty using FBP (as I have been since season 3 and have no intention of changing) I do not have the ability to tweak my build to compensate for someone who stacked shield penetration to >100%. I can compensate for drain/control/armor pen/actual damage to shields; but for the life of me I cannot seem to compensate for someone who chooses to stack shield pen. No amount of dodge/immunity/armor resist will compensate for a complete bypass of an integral game mechanic that of which itself is designed to reduce hull damage to a manageable level. I don't believe we should bring back zombie cruisers (that was boring), but it would be nice for my shields to actually do something rather than be a pretty blue ring around a melting hull.

There is no jack of all trades build...you want to do damage you do damage, you want to resist drains, you stack drain resists consoles, you want to be able to survive a few salvos of dhc's with hardened shields you...wait...sorry you can't.

Back to the drawing board...maybe a speedster healer with the science ulitmate would work...hmmm

fyi, resilient shields don't do much, blegh.

lumpkin1

I'm wondering if it would make any difference against the shield pen torp bombers to load on a monatanium or 2, but i don't know that it would help against kemocite explosions