Do you like the new skill system?

mneme0

Just curious what your answers will be if you have to say just yes or no.

seaofsorrows

Yes

Yes, I do.

I have managed to get an overall buff on all of my characters and I'm still working on pushing it even further.

I'm thankful I can test this stuff on Tribble, it's helped me test things to squeeze the most I can out of the new system.

In my opinion, it's vastly superior to the old system.

sennahcherib

Yes

easy to use, and more efficient

risian4

Yes

The skill system itself seems to be much better, but also the process of implementing it was well done. Feedback was listened to and although I'm still slightly disappointed that there's no longer a need to have separate ground toons, I guess this is for the better overall as there are many people who don't have special ground toons and it might thus increase activity in ground missions.

I am concerned about power creep - I've seen many players who say that they're more powerful than before, and the first missions I've played (mostly ISA - since that mission is more likely to attract DPS'ers and parsers I guess power creep is less serious than it may seem) were done much faster and players were more powerful than the average PUG I played until Tuesday.

alcyoneserene

All my toons have been shelved since it hit. I haven't played a single anything. The queue continuum shifts ever more towards (--) avg wait time in the meanwhile, sadly.

Much too hard to fine tune just right and figure out what the new aspects really do considering tribble access isn't available to everyone and I can't get even a single ISA to pop for hours, so testing multiple ship builds by respeccing and doing single missions on elite where we don't get spoon fed with friendly NPCs that do the work for us.

Been doing nothing but discussing it, viewing the skill trees of others, and digging through reddit posts of those who managed to make some non-opinionated testing.

Do I like it? Yes and no, but also I'm not sure yet as it's too early to really tell about its ultimate game wide-impact. Example: will DPS chasers polarize into tac-ultimate glass cannons and become even more hostile against the rest of us who don't min-max tac-dps? Will healers and tanks be outed for stealing their precious GDF and miss for Reciprocity? Will general pug queues become a nightmare of 'wrong' skill trees (filled with skill traps, there are many) paired with the wrong ships on top of chat and optionals/mandatory objectives neglect? Will the game polarize ever more towards TACS with Tac-heavy skill trees and BFAW-Cruisers?

I've been trying to tribble test to prepare. That failed fast and hard given then constant major changes being done right up to the very last day of S11.5 going live. Changes were good. In the early stages it was an absolute nightmare for Science. Then it improved, but not in the sense of providing equality between career ultimates, or even whether ultimates are another skill trap (one I won't touch on any of my toons).

The gameplay environment can and will change some more. New enemies with new abilities are bound to pop up, pug queue compositions forcing one to re-evaluate one's skill point strategy, pre-made teams demanding (x or get out noob), followed by corrections, boosts/'normalizations' meaning even existing skills will probably feel 'wrong' meaning pay 500z per every toon to fix down the road. What is certain is all these skill revamps are a good business model for keeping the game running.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not after the bleeding-edge meta because I want to Science or Tank or DPS or Support the very best or whatever else, but I also want the expensive in-game junk I've acquired over so much time and even money to still be worth that extra 0.1% boosts it gives by a properly suitable general purpose skill tree that's also somewhat future-proof, and appropriate across all career types, factions, ship types, and mains and alts.

I said it before and I will say it again I'm done treating this game seriously, perhaps a little late in the game since I missed the destruction of something good since good old Delta Rising threw everything into a washing machine overnight. Can one treat any game seriously in the sense of enjoying the pursuit of getting better? Yes, there's been a few, which are still in development (of the kind that perfects a simulation of something fully realistic), or which otherwise treats the core game balance along with the free to play (if not entirely free) seriously, especially since they're either purely PVP or a mix.

Then there's the issue of 'magic NPCs' which simply cheat with OP abilities or invulnerabilities (Voth are a huge offender here) of every kind, making it a bigger joke to be fine tuning our builds only to still end up recognizing that our Science disables, debuffs, subnuke, etc., are fundamentally treated as role-play and we should 'learn' to simply play Tac and have Tac-heavy skill trees or 'you're doing it wrong.' Others here used to also share these viewpoints, and I'm hearing less and less of them, perhaps because they found somewhere else to have more fun in. Times like this silence (and absence) speaks louder than all the noise.

where2r1

Yes

I tested like crazy on Tribble...and took my time filling out the tree on Holodeck...no calamities to report over here (just like Borticus said). LOL!

It is too bad, in the end, they could not find a way to consolidate Energy and Projectile Weapons Training. I ended up using 6 points to fill both of those out.

kiralyn

Yes

Only annoying thing so far is having to re-skill 9 alts. Of course, I haven't tested it that much yet.

(That said, I'm not the most high-end theorycrafter type player, so my expectations are likely less high than some other peoples'. /shrug)

goodscotch

Yes

I kinda do. It gives you a better idea of how heavily/lightly you're spec'ed in ENG/SCI/TAC.

peterconnorfirst

Yes

I like it, easy to use.

Peeps also seem to gain a performance boost over it. Heavy spec into tac seems to have increased my DPS by roughly 20%-30% on different toons.

A few sci enthusiasts also gave positive feedback around here when going full sci which is cool.

I have some hope that space elite contend will get more accessible for the majority of teams over the change so thumbs up from me.

hanover2

Poll needs an "ambivalent" option. Maybe I am doing more damage, but it does seem to be forcing specialization at the expense of generalized skill sets. And confirming EVERY.SINGLE.POINT.INDIVIDUALLY is just frigging obnoxious. Maybe it's easier to use, but I didn't need it to be easier.

risian4

Yes

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

I like it, easy to use.

Peeps also seem to gain a performance boost over it. Heavy spec into tac seems to have increased my DPS by roughly 20%-30% on different toons.

A few sci enthusiasts also gave positive feedback around here if going full sci which is cool.

I have some hope that space elite contend will get more accessible for the majority of teams over the change so thumbs up from me.

Well from what I've seen so far, they really need to release Elite content for the old STF's as Advanced seems to have become much easier after the skill revamp

Perhaps that was one of the goals of the skill revamp btw... who knows. Maybe we'll see ISE again in a few weeks/months

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peterconnorfirst

Yes

risian4 wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

I like it, easy to use.

Peeps also seem to gain a performance boost over it. Heavy spec into tac seems to have increased my DPS by roughly 20%-30% on different toons.

A few sci enthusiasts also gave positive feedback around here if going full sci which is cool.

I have some hope that space elite contend will get more accessible for the majority of teams over the change so thumbs up from me.

Well from what I've seen so far, they really need to release Elite content for the old STF's as Advanced seems to have become much easier after the skill revamp

Perhaps that was one of the goals of the skill revamp btw... who knows. Maybe we'll see ISE again in a few weeks/months

Think if we really would get such a cool thing as borg elites I'd forget about the DPS madness for a min and pick up iGe at first.

Would love to run into it with you as pug again.

jtoon74

There are more issues worth addressing than the skillls system, the doff system needs a revamp, some of doffs missions seem skewed in favour of the Federation, the archeological dig sites ones on the exploration branch for example, Federation doffs tend to have traits that give positive returns.
Klingons and Romulans need a bit of love to, for example in the delta pack fed got 3 ships, klink and Rommies got 1 each. The promo Andromeda is great, but again Klinks and Rommies got nowt

mustrumridcully0

Yes

I like it. There are some nice new science toys in it and it's a lot cheaper to spec into skills that used to be high tier.

It seems cleaner and better explained. There are still some oddities, like the convoluted explanation for skill. "1 point in this skill grant x % bonus, and this skill node grants you n points, for a total of n*x %", but I guess that just couldn't be completely avoided and at least the information is there in the skill description and is now consistent across all powers or abilities affected by it.

I also like that the old system where you could accidentally end up with skill combinations with skill points left over and unspendable is finally gone.

And I like that there Ground and Space points are now cleanly segregated. I never liked that.

risian4 wrote: »

The skill system itself seems to be much better, but also the process of implementing it was well done. Feedback was listened to and although I'm still slightly disappointed that there's no longer a need to have separate ground toons, I guess this is for the better overall as there are many people who don't have special ground toons and it might thus increase activity in ground missions.

Now you can have seperate toons for builds with or without access to an Ultimate.

thatcursedwolf

Once I get past having to redo every single captain I want to use I'll like it without grumbling. I can't even just skip skills and go about my business since I have to redo the bars on every captain.

But I do like cannons having the same drop off as beams and being able to lower that drop off to 20%.

gradii

No

add a "It has major flaws but some potential" option please.

chipg7

Yes

I'm a fan. Had good results with it, and every toon is better at what they do - my tank is tankier, my sci captain's ship has stronger abilities, etc. I find it's better for specializing what you do, which I recall the devs saying was actually an intended result. So far, comes as advertised for me!

tfomega

No

mneme0 wrote: »

Just curious what your answers will be if you have to say just yes or no.

I do not like it because I am no longer free to spec into skills needed for original builds. It limits making specific non-career choices of skills.

For example, I am a rom tac. If my previous build were primarily a hybrid of engineer and tac skills, and I wanted to put points into sensors to be able to snoop, I could do that on T4 of the old skill tree.

In the new version, I must achieve a certain level of sci points before I am given an unlock for perception, but ya see, I don't want that many sci skills on my build to be able to choose that option.

^^ look at it, Cryptic... you just endorsed less dynamic builds.

rhiwaow1

Yes

although due to the change in cost of skills, it's no longer possible for me to max the lower cost skills like i did before, i think the new system is an improvement overall. i especially love the addition of pet and team bonus skills! also, the sci ultimate is quite fun.
the simplification of ground skills is also appreciated, as it allows me to diversify or switch my ground powers without having to respec or sacrifice things there.
the side effect of fixing several display bugs like shield regen, and showing some other stats now: AWESOME! i now see that my shield regen was off by about a full order of magnitude, and can change stuff and immediately see how it'll actually affect things.

ilithyn

No

alcyoneserene wrote: »

All my toons have been shelved since it hit. I haven't played a single anything. The queue continuum shifts ever more towards (--) avg wait time in the meanwhile, sadly.

Much too hard to fine tune just right and figure out what the new aspects really do considering tribble access isn't available to everyone and I can't get even a single ISA to pop for hours, so testing multiple ship builds by respeccing and doing single missions on elite where we don't get spoon fed with friendly NPCs that do the work for us.

Been doing nothing but discussing it, viewing the skill trees of others, and digging through reddit posts of those who managed to make some non-opinionated testing.

Do I like it? Yes and no, but also I'm not sure yet as it's too early to really tell about its ultimate game wide-impact. Example: will DPS chasers polarize into tac-ultimate glass cannons and become even more hostile against the rest of us who don't min-max tac-dps? Will healers and tanks be outed for stealing their precious GDF and miss for Reciprocity? Will general pug queues become a nightmare of 'wrong' skill trees (filled with skill traps, there are many) paired with the wrong ships on top of chat and optionals/mandatory objectives neglect? Will the game polarize ever more towards TACS with Tac-heavy skill trees and BFAW-Cruisers?

I've been trying to tribble test to prepare. That failed fast and hard given then constant major changes being done right up to the very last day of S11.5 going live. Changes were good. In the early stages it was an absolute nightmare for Science. Then it improved, but not in the sense of providing equality between career ultimates, or even whether ultimates are another skill trap (one I won't touch on any of my toons).

The gameplay environment can and will change some more. New enemies with new abilities are bound to pop up, pug queue compositions forcing one to re-evaluate one's skill point strategy, pre-made teams demanding (x or get out noob), followed by corrections, boosts/'normalizations' meaning even existing skills will probably feel 'wrong' meaning pay 500z per every toon to fix down the road. What is certain is all these skill revamps are a good business model for keeping the game running.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not after the bleeding-edge meta because I want to Science or Tank or DPS or Support the very best or whatever else, but I also want the expensive in-game junk I've acquired over so much time and even money to still be worth that extra 0.1% boosts it gives by a properly suitable general purpose skill tree that's also somewhat future-proof, and appropriate across all career types, factions, ship types, and mains and alts.

I said it before and I will say it again I'm done treating this game seriously, perhaps a little late in the game since I missed the destruction of something good since good old Delta Rising threw everything into a washing machine overnight. Can one treat any game seriously in the sense of enjoying the pursuit of getting better? Yes, there's been a few, which are still in development (of the kind that perfects a simulation of something fully realistic), or which otherwise treats the core game balance along with the free to play (if not entirely free) seriously, especially since they're either purely PVP or a mix.

Then there's the issue of 'magic NPCs' which simply cheat with OP abilities or invulnerabilities (Voth are a huge offender here) of every kind, making it a bigger joke to be fine tuning our builds only to still end up recognizing that our Science disables, debuffs, subnuke, etc., are fundamentally treated as role-play and we should 'learn' to simply play Tac and have Tac-heavy skill trees or 'you're doing it wrong.' Others here used to also share these viewpoints, and I'm hearing less and less of them, perhaps because they found somewhere else to have more fun in. Times like this silence (and absence) speaks louder than all the noise.

@alcyoneserene I had this long thing planned out in my head about how I feel about the new system, but you pretty much covered all of it so there's no real need for me to reiterate.

murkalael

Your pool is missing options. I don't really mind the change, since was widelly announced. I just don't like the hidden changes like replacement of Tholian Red Alert for Nah'kuhl, fleet cap change, etc, etc.

truewarper

Yes

Nothing to like, just the winds of change grace us again...made a minor mistake on picking an effect and my sector warping was reduced, but will not seek to change it.

Although it will be asked, will there changes to grow the paths with special given points from certain events? 46 points was a starter to set up stuff, it should not be an ender.

gradii

No

Fix the inability to set up a build and preview it like we could before and I'll change my vote to yes.

ilithyn

No

truewarper wrote: »

Although it will be asked, will there changes to grow the paths with special given points from certain events? 46 points was a starter to set up stuff, it should not be an ender.

From what I've read 46 points is all we'll ever get. Just as you couldn't max out every skill in the old system, neither can you do so now. So yes, it's the ender.

smokeybacon90

Yes

I like the new system, however I really think skill respecs ought to be free, or at least purchasable with EC from a vendor.

gradii

No

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

I like the new system, however I really think skill respecs ought to be free, or at least purchasable with EC from a vendor.

Given how you're forced to purchase each point seperately (and CONFIRM) this is only fair.

that was an absolute deal breaker for me and why I vote no.

seaofsorrows

Yes

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

I like the new system, however I really think skill respecs ought to be free, or at least purchasable with EC from a vendor.

Agreed 100%.

The games respec system is still absolutely the worst I have ever seen in my life.

I like the skill system, HATE the way respecs are done.

drakethewhite

No

Given that I have to commit point by point, I haven't even tried to spend my skill points. If is spend a point in the wrong place I'll have to burn a respect to correct it. I play games to relax, not to stress over 46 individual decisions and mouse clicks. To me, this is a fatal flaw.

I'll try a mission perhaps today and see how crippled I am. It if goes too badly, it may will result in me leaving the game until the previous ability to fill out the whole before committing is returned to us. Or I might just confine myself to Doffing and Admiralty which is doable. Depends upon how disgusted I get.

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taylor1701d

Ehhh its not awful. But tbh I prefer the older tree. This new one feels a bit too "WoW'ish" for my liking.

One of their goals was to lay it out in a more clear and concise way. But I don't feel that the clarity or conciseness has been improved at all.

And its actually less user friendly then before, when you consider there is no preview option. And one click is set in stone.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the change. And after finally seeing it I can confirm my assertion that this whole revamp has been a needless waste of Dev time.

I guess I just feel like we didn't gain anything with all the Dev hours they've put into the project. We're exactly where we were 6 months ago.
Just with a new "WoW" skin overlayed on our old skill tree.

We gained absolutely nothing here.
Development went sideways, instead of forward with this project.

Imagine what else they could've been working on for 6 months if they'd chosen to use their time more wisely.