Klingon T6 Science/Support vessel

tester4th

I don't know if anyone from cryptic reads these things, but just in case I would like to make a request. Please create a T6 support vessel.

In my opinion it should be based on the Gorn support vessle and the consoles should become a set. The new ship should have a hanger that can launch special science based pets or be able to launch a craft like the Fed T6 long range science ship. (Making it a 4 consol set)

jaguarskx

This issue was addressed in a Priority One Podcast sometime back in April 2014. Al "Captain Geko" Rivera (Lead Designer) appeared on the Podcast to answer some player questions that were submitted to the show.

Basically, a T6 KDF science vessel is not going to be developed. At best it will be developed once Cryptic has released all the other T6 starships they have on their to-do-list. Meaning they might do it right before T7 ships are released.

The reason is because science vessels do not sell well in the KDF faction (and Romulan as well). There are two KDF T5 science vessels, the Varanus and the KDF version of the Dyson Science Destroyer. He mentioned that at best only about 2 dozen science vessels were sold per week.

Assuming 24 Varanus and DSD were sold per week for one year at full price and they were purchased with Zen the were in turn purchased with real money, Cryptic would have only sold $31,200 worth of KDF science vessel ($25 x 24 x 52 weeks). That's gross sales, meaning before expenses like time and money devoted to designing and testing the ships.

A Rivera basically said they lose money on KDF science ships because the total expense to bring them into to C-Store outweighs the amount of sales those ship generates.


I too would like a faction specific KDF and Romulan science vessel, but I gave up on that dream based on what Al Rivera said. If a certain product cannot even generate enough sales to cover the cost of development, then there is no point to create the product.

warmaker001b

jaguarskx wrote: »

This issue was addressed in a Priority One Podcast sometime back in April 2014. Al "Captain Geko" Rivera (Lead Designer) appeared on the Podcast to answer some player questions that were submitted to the show.

Basically, a T6 KDF science vessel is not going to be developed. At best it will be developed once Cryptic has released all the other T6 starships they have on their to-do-list. Meaning they might do it right before T7 ships are released.

The reason is because science vessels do not sell well in the KDF faction (and Romulan as well). There are two KDF T5 science vessels, the Varanus and the KDF version of the Dyson Science Destroyer. He mentioned that at best only about 2 dozen science vessels were sold per week.

Assuming 24 Varanus and DSD were sold per week for one year at full price and they were purchased with Zen the were in turn purchased with real money, Cryptic would have only sold $31,200 worth of KDF science vessel ($25 x 24 x 52 weeks). That's gross sales, meaning before expenses like time and money devoted to designing and testing the ships.

A Rivera basically said they lose money on KDF science ships because the total expense to bring them into to C-Store outweighs the amount of sales those ship generates.


I too would like a faction specific KDF and Romulan science vessel, but I gave up on that dream based on what Al Rivera said. If a certain product cannot even generate enough sales to cover the cost of development, then there is no point to create the product.

Cryptic's support of Science Vessels for the KDF & Romulans have been abysmal. If you rarely put anything up for sale in a category of ships, then TRIBBLE about how low the sales are, of course the sales will be low.

Cryptic tries to throw that "sales" thing around as justifying doing TRIBBLE for the KDF & Roms, but the real reason is much simpler.

NEGLECT - Because you and I both know that the Feds have received far heavier development despite STO being a Multi-Faction game. Development has been heavily slanted.

For endgame Faction Science Vessels, meaning T5 and up:
FEDS
Nova
Olympic
Nebula
Intrepid
FDSSV
FRSV
Vesta 3-pack
DSD 3-pack
Intrepid (T6)
Scryer-Intel (T6)
Dauntless (T6)

KDF
Veranus
DSD 3-pack
No T6

ROMS
Fleet Ha'nom (expensive 4 FSM ship, single character purchase, sucks TRIBBLE when there's very few other options)
DSD 3-pack
T6? LOL!

The KDF Veranus is vintage late 2010. The Ha'nom was part of LOR in mid-2013. The DSD's are vintage early 2014.

The KDF had a 3 year gap of Science Vessels between the Veranus and the DSD releases. The Roms came out in 2013 with the Ha'nom, had about over half a year before the DSD showed up. Ever since the DSD releases, the KDF & Roms have had ZERO Science Vessels to include the amazing ZERO at T6.

People can't TRIBBLE about low sales in something when they're not putting anything for sale to begin with.

rosetyler51

The question we got to ask is how well did the fed science ships sell? They have a flood of them so I got to think there was a few failures.

My KDF main is science so the lack of science ships is a dull ache in my heart but I'm use to it. No t6 Vo'Quv is the fresher hurt.

dareau

The Varanus is a remodel of the Fed Titan class Deep Space Science Vessel(?). The 9 console T5 Dilithium one.

I know. I looked those stats over... and over... and over... debating on what Science ship to buy my KDF before I was handed it during one of the lovely Cryptic C-store giveaways.

Being that I'm a Luna/Vesta fan, the heavy engineering focus of the Varanus/Titan was never my cup of tea, so I snagged the DSD pack, which is my KDF's "science vessel of choice"...

I play KDF enough to debate C-store purchases, I don't play them enough to FSM for them...

So, while I'd love to see more KDF (and Romulan) Science ships, I'm "obviously" part of the problem that's keeping sales so low that they can't be released...

stofsk

Yeah I'm part of the problem too. I'd rather see (and would rather buy) T6 birds-of-prey. Not objecting to KDF science vessels at all, and I agree with warmaker that the poor sales argument is a hollow one. I'm just saying personally I'd rather have x than y.

warmaker001b

wrong post, nvm.

mustrumridcully0

rosetyler51 wrote: »

The question we got to ask is how well did the fed science ships sell? They have a flood of them so I got to think there was a few failures.

Well, the Federation has 3 Tier 6 Science Vessels right now, and one Tier 6 Carrier (Dauntless, Scryer, Pathfinder and Jupiter). And IIRC, only 2 batches of Science Vessels were released post F2P - the Vesta and the Dyson Destroyers. Some ships that already were Tier 5 were even given C-Store Refits - but none of the Science Vessels (not even the Intrepid, other than the pre F2P Tier 5 Retrofit. The Galaxy has seen more love).

Now count how many Cruisers and Escorts the Federation has gotten in the meantime...
8 Escorts: Alita, Valiant, Phantom, Icarus, Mercury, Ajax, Hestia, Manticore
12 Cruisers: Galaxy, Yamato, Eclipse, Resolute, Arbiter, Guardian, Yorktown, Endeavour, Sojourner, Concorde, Geneva, Presidio

In fact, since the release of the Intrepid - which was directly after the release of the whole Delta Rising Pack - there hasn't been a single regular Science Vessel.

The only other Science Vessels have been Promo (Annorax), Lobo (Paradox) and Event (Krenim). And two of these are basically cheating, because they are "Science Dreadnaughts", which means they are uber Science Vessels with an extra weapon slot so people could replicate their Beamscort Builds ont them at least.

I think that Science is just not that popular in general. KDF (and RR) are just unfortunate that their ships are also not as popular as Fed ships.

Though at last in the last few months, it seems Cryptic has systematically added features and abilities that buff Science, so it could be that things are looking up again for Science popularity and maybe we'll see more SVs in the future. We'll see. Maybe all that was good for was to sell the Annorax and Paradox better.

alexraptorr

To be fair though, Science ships were originally concieved as a federation exclusive ship type, just as carriers were KDF exclusive.
Allthough the KDF just got screwed over big time with the T6 fed carrier, when by all rights it should have been a KDF carrier.

warmaker001b

alexraptorr wrote: »

To be fair though, Science ships were originally concieved as a federation exclusive ship type, just as carriers were KDF exclusive.
Allthough the KDF just got screwed over big time with the T6 fed carrier, when by all rights it should have been a KDF carrier.

We fought (and lost) that war for faction uniqueness long ago. So the "No KDF/Rom" SCI Vessel B.S. is just that.

B.S.

staq16

I wonder what the chances are that Cryptic would just stick the Korath in the C-store as a T6 ship. No new model needed, most players don't have one... I could live with the loss of "exclusivity" .

dareau

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Well, the Federation has 3 Tier 6 Science Vessels right now, and one Tier 6 Carrier (Dauntless, Scryer, Pathfinder and Jupiter). And IIRC, only 2 batches of Science Vessels were released post F2P - the Vesta and the Dyson Destroyers. Some ships that already were Tier 5 were even given C-Store Refits - but none of the Science Vessels (not even the Intrepid, other than the pre F2P Tier 5 Retrofit. The Galaxy has seen more love).

When I joined, the Fed Science selection was T1 Grissom, T2 Nova/Rhode Island, T3 Olympic / Nebula, T4 Intrepid / Intrepid Refit, T5 Luna / Titan, Intrepid Retrofit, D'Kyr, T5 Nebula.

When fleets released, the Nova and Olympic got the "T5 Retrofit & Fleet Retrofit" treatments, the Intrepid, D'Kyr, and Nebula got fleet refits also.

And, like much of the Feddie shiplists, this is the "plethora" of Science stuff that can be... selected from. Practical experience has shown that the T5 Rhode Island was a... passable selection (I still see some in missions at times), the D'Kyr and Nebula were "extreme fan favorites", partially because of their extensive engineering focuses overlaps with science to make them the "ultimate heal boat" in a game that don't need dedicated healers... <facepalm>, and the Olympic was relegated to "collector ship", due to looks and heal-boat status...

But yeah, after that, there was the Orb Weaver and Wells in back-to-back lockboxes, and the C-store saw the Vesta (Fed Only) and DSD sets. When T6 released, while the Feds got a Science Intel ship in the DR launch and the Dauntless and Intrepid were both very shortly thereafter, the KDF got all of an Intel Cruiser and T6 Raptor (no BoP even), and the Rommies were much the same (plain and intel Warbirds, nothing else).

For the record, the Orb Weaver was "fairly" popular amidst the KDF and RR Science crowds because it was an option that could go Lt Cmdr Sci with it's universal (at cost of tactical), while still suffering some from "heavy engineering focus".

Of course, as muttered earlier, the only other Cmdr Sci ships released in T6 are "Dreadnought" Classed, so one can argue that while highly science focused (like a carrier), they're not "true" Science ships...

staq16

Well, the Paradox pretty much hits every criteria you could opt for as a Science vessel - Secondary Deflector, Cdr Sci, Sensor Analysis, potentially multiple sci slots. But yeah, with the 4th weapon and pets it's got other tricks.

Here's hoping for at least a Wells / Korath rerelease in the future.