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Skill System Revamp Developer Livestream

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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    ha.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2016
    To @sheldonlcooper and @totenmet

    I have to agree with @samt1996 (And for the record, I haven't really agreed with him these past few weeks because he's been on a nerfing warpath with science skills). Getting your space build the same or pretty close to your old Holodeck one is pretty simple if you just invest 1 point for every 3 you used to. Most of the existing science tree got completely consolidated, so there isn't any excuse there for being able to recreate your build. Also, the science scaling has been adjusted so there is only a slight drop in effectiveness from Holodeck. The problem is, people will get tempted by some of the new stuff like:

    1) Armor penetration
    2) Shield penetration
    3) Damage drop-off reduction
    4) Boff ability reduction (Sci, tac, and engineer separate)

    If you invest on any of those above, then yes, you can't really recreate your existing build. Otherwise, it super easy. I suggest you guys take a snapshot of your existing skills, map them to the new ones, and stay away from all the new ones. As for ground, you benefit from every skill that boosted kit abilities packed into 1. The rest are equivalent to existing ones, and there are a couple of new choices you can again, stay away from to replicate your Holodeck build.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I looked into it and found that I need 52 points to recreate without using any of the new abilities. I will, however, be using many of the new abilities and will sacrifice virtually all defense to do so. And that's fine. Whatever the new game is I'll adapt in space.

    I'm much more skeptical and pessimistic about ground. Can you say that a character with maxed ground points can really recreate with the few choices available?
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Show me your skill tree and I'll do it myself.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    For the record I've only suggested rebalancing certain powers that have become too powerful with the revamp. Pretty sure the only ones I've mentioned are Inspirational Leader and Scramble Sensors both of which are extremely powerful. If I gave you the impression I wanted to nerf drains it was entirely by mistake I even told bort they may need a little more of a buff.
  • comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,694 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2016
    So much nerdrage going here, holy nerdness!

    I'd suggest taking a few minutes with the system on tribble to try and replicate holodeck builds. If you still can't then take a note of what is different on tribble that is on holodeck, this way you can type up a good feedback report that borticus can use to work with in making the new system somewhat similar to the holodeck one...

    But seriously, saying that one can not replicate a holodeck build based on what we see in the forums, and not personally trying it out on tribble is... well... Yeah!

    I was able to personally replicate my drain/leech build from holodeck with almost identical results.


    If the above doesn't apply to you then ignore!
    6tviTDx.png

  • xsi1exsi1e Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    Honestly this looks like yet another dumb down of the skill system. Seems every few years the devs get it into their heads that we the players are to stupid or incompetent to manage a complex robust skill system like the one we had to begin with. Sure you had the ability to make a fail build but that is what respec is for. Sadly this looks just the way a dev likes it. Make player mechanics the same as much as possible so they are easier to manage. I was around in the days of STOked and remember them saying nearly the same exact thing I just did, about the first skill system dumb down.
    1kltX02.jpg
  • totenmettotenmet Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    xsi1e wrote: »
    Honestly this looks like yet another dumb down of the skill system. Seems every few years the devs get it into their heads that we the players are to stupid or incompetent to manage a complex robust skill system like the one we had to begin with. Sure you had the ability to make a fail build but that is what respec is for. Sadly this looks just the way a dev likes it. Make player mechanics the same as much as possible so they are easier to manage. I was around in the days of STOked and remember them saying nearly the same exact thing I just did, about the first skill system dumb down.

    Actualy in the original skill system (the one before the current one) we had a drop down menu were a specific trait could be selected and than yellow rectangels were drawn arround the related skills to show where to put your skillpoints. That way we could always find out were skillspoints were needed.

    I found that useful.

    Also in the current and previous I could spend 1-9 points per skill. So for example, how does 5 skill points on a skill in the current system corelates with revamped system?


  • sgtfloydpepper#7911 sgtfloydpepper Member Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    If I had 2-3 more space points, then yes, I could replicate my space build. Ground on the other hand, maybe 1-2 points shy.

    Nonetheless, the livestream "explanations" seemed to deflect more questions than answer them.
    1xe027q.png
  • thraexisthraexis Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    I actually like the new skill system. It is more simplified.

    I went on the tribble server to look at it and test it out.
    It real nice. No different then the old one, just a better
    way to use skill points.
  • pwlaughingtrendypwlaughingtrendy Member Posts: 2,966 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Is there a way to in the new system to allow players with specialized ground characters to invest more points in that part of the skill ‘tree’ and less in the space part?

    There used to be a flex amount of points. The number of Ground Points available in the new system is balanced around spending the maximum you previously could in ground. If you were a space-specialization Captain, you will likely end up gaining ground functionality. The concept of being focused on either ground or space is something we wanted to get away from, and our story content model doesn’t support it. We want you to be able to excel at both.

    Will we see special skill unlocks such as in a Featured Episode Reward, similar to how you receive traits? Or other trees?

    Anything that gives you additional skill points, or different Skills, would give a different player a different experience and isn’t something we want to do for a system that is such a core part of your progression. It’s safe to say that this is unlikely.

    Why are hanger pet buffs in the skill tree, separate from being its own full specialization?

    We saw an opportunity to improve your hangar pets where we feel it fits well.

    Just because it’s in the tactical path, it doesn’t mean you need to spend everything on tactical to get it – skill ranks unlock based on points spent in any Profession category (Tac, Eng, Sci).

    The additional unlocks for hangar pets are meant to be smaller bonuses, not primary motivations for how to spend your Skill
    Points.

    How is Inspirational Leader supposed to work with this new skill tree?

    Inspirational Leader (Space Trait) may become very powerful as the new system has a lot of flexibility. It will be translated to give bonuses to skills that exist under the new system, but it won’t grant bonuses to every skill.

    Will we be able to create different builds and toggle which one we want to use much like the saved "ship builds" we have today? Will there be an option to buy additional skill build slots from the ZEN store?

    Implementing something like “Build Slots” would be a very time-consuming effort, and we haven’t even investigated what technical hurdles might exist in attempting to create something like that. Definitely won’t see anything like this for Season 11.5.

    Also, we want Captains to have a sense of identity that they can commit to. Being able to change builds at will reduces the weight and impact of your Skill choices. As such, it’s safe to say we probably won’t create this functionality.


    Will there be ways to make skill respecs easier to obtain?

    All players will have their Skills reset, and will be given one Free Captain Retrain Token at launch. We will also be holding a discount promotion, which will reduce the price of further Respec Tokens.
    We’re still in discussions about this, and there may be additional changes made after the launch, but nothing we’re ready to announce yet.


    Is there some sort of “master guide” or conversion chart” that’ll help players identify what new skill is the correspondence for the “current skill”?

    This is a great idea! Not sure we’ll be able to, but we’d like to. Even if we end up pursuing this, we would have to wait till the new Skill System revamp is finalized before building any sort of chart for players.

    What are some interesting builds you see players putting together with the new skills this revamp adds that couldn’t be done before?

    A perfect example is we added a new science skill that reduces weapon drop off at range. This is something that didn’t exist before, and we could easily see someone investing highly in mobility as a “sniper ship”. We also expect to see players experiment with highly defensive and survivable builds a bit more, in both Ground and Space.

    How will the new “Threatening Stance” interact with “Attract Fire”?

    They both use a mechanic called AI Threat scaling, and everything that uses that same mechanic are all a modifier that is applied at the end of the outgoing Threat calculations, so they will work together.

    Are tactical skills too heavily encouraged in the current skill revamp available on Tribble?
    No. We did a lot of work to ensure that the other “non-damage” skills worthwhile. If you still don’t feel that way, we’re open to feedback!

    Are there any other skills in the new skill tree that I would need points in to get back approximately what we have now on Holodeck?

    There are a few core mechanics that were adjusted when we created this system. We recommend putting a few points in shield hardness and shield regeneration and long range targeting (if you used beams), in order to get your performance under the new system to match your current Holodeck performance in those areas.

    Does the shield penetration and hull penetration apply to torpedoes too or only energy weapons?

    They should apply to both Energy and Projectiles, including targetable torpedoes.

    Why did you decide to tie the pets so much into the Tactical Skill Path?

    The idea of the Tactical Captain being the damage dealer isn’t really classic Star Trek. They’re the ones coordinating the battlefield.

    What’s being done in order to balance ultimate abilities such as the ultimate ability for Engineers?

    We’re still in the tuning process for these and are looking for additional feedback with this. They will definitely be improved from their current status on Tribble.

    Will Hull Regen be added to Engineering Fleet, since the skill got split?

    Yes. Engineering Fleet, as well as a few other abilities, will have Hull Regen added to their functionality.

    EPS Manifold requires batteries to be effective. Are there any plans to change this?

    We’ll review this and see about potential changes. This Trait should not rely on the Skill to reach its full potential.

    Will skill build choices be reflected visually in any way? (Costumes, Titles, Icons, etc.)
    That’s an interesting suggestion, though we don’t have anything in mind for this right now.

    How will this affect our current builds?

    You should be able to recreate your current build in the new system, as well as get some new toys along the way. Hopefully you’ll enjoy the opportunity to try something new as well!

    Why is it that each point must be committed as we go along, as opposed to spending all our points and then “confirming”?

    Attempting to implement that technology in the new system would cause us to have to face technical problems that could potentially mean we wouldn’t be able to ship this feature.
    Additionally, the point-by-point purchase is exactly the same experience you would have as you level up. It’s very standard for MMOs in general.


    Why can’t other pets (i.e.: like separated sauces or the Odyssey’s Aquarius escort) get the same benefit from Hangar skills?

    They will! Based on player feedback, we’re adding additional bonuses to the Coordination skills which will benefit summoned pets, and player teammates. This change should be arriving on Tribble shortly.


    What goals did you lay out for this system, and how will you measure the success of it?

    The feedback has been a great measure for this. Just the fact that the bulk of the feedback Tribble has been positive has been already a win. Our further long term success is making it easier and more fun to progress through the game, and seeing fewer players have problems learning how to progress their characters.


    What’s the weirdest/funniest/surprising thing you discovered while reworking the skill system?

    There was a very prominent thread that I made about the strengthened strengths and resistible resists. There were a number of abilities that players could use that could cause potential recursions or out of hand scaling that flew off the charts. That was probably the most surprising and important thing we discovered.


    What was the greatest obstacle in making this revamp?

    Implementation obstacles are never the big ones that stand out. The biggest obstacle I faced was a philosophical and design one trying to marry the ideas of don’t change the entire game, don’t break anything, and make sure that players can get everything they could get previously, while still making it a better experience. That has been the biggest challenge and biggest obstacle. It’s also the one I feel the most fulfilled about having overcome.

    When is 11.5 live?

    Giraffes. This year.

    What was your thought in combining beam and torpedo skills?

    There has been talk about combining these two but there are a number of obstacles. We have tried to come up with a skill to take its place if we were to get rid of that, but no great ideas have taken root.

    What about all the personal DOFF missions that give skill boosts?

    Translated! They will benefit the new skills. However if there are any that are missing, let us know.

    What will be happening to our built-up expertise?

    Nothing, they won’t be touched.

    Is there going to be a new specialization soon?

    Maybe!

    As a returning player after a long absence, how easy will it be to pick up the new skill system?

    The exact amount of difficulty if you were an existing player. I don’t think it’s going to be especially more difficult than a current player. In fact, a player with fewer preconceptions, and that tries less to exactly replicate an existing build, may have more fun with this than a veteran that is set in their ways.

    What is the best way to contact us?

    Our official forums.

    Will we get the respec tokens we have already spent back?

    No. Though you will be getting a free respec token for each character when this goes live, in addition to the skill reset that will naturally occur.


    Will the numerical stats for all skills like Shield Hardness be displayed in the status page?

    It is on the list of things that we would like to update in the near future, along with other changes to this page. We’re looking at what we can add and remove to make it a cleaner experience.

    Will there be any opportunities to gain any more skill points at different portions in the storyline?

    We strongly doubt we’ll be adding additional skill points as it would change the balance of the core progression in the skill system. If it were ever to occur, no more than 1-2 points would ever be offered, over the entire lifespan of STO.

    Do the new shield and hull penetration skills stack with the [PEN] modifier?

    They’re the same thing under the hood. They don’t stack, but they both apply.

    Is Plasmonic Leech still working in the skill system?

    It did get rebalanced but it still performs quite well.

    Is the free respec character once per account or once per character?

    Per character.

    Are the current respec tokens that players have invalid with the new system?

    They will work just fine in the new system.

    Why 46 skill points?

    It is one point per level starting at level 5 until level 50. Specialization points are meant to be your means of progression past level 50.
    Post edited by pwlaughingtrendy on
  • comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,694 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2016
    thankz youz soo muchz trendies! :)

    Editz: Canz the questionz be boldedz? XD wouldz make it easier to readz! (sorry idk why I'm typing like this)
    Editz 2: ooh even better ideaz canz diz be posted on the newz page as wellz?
    6tviTDx.png

  • keletteskelettes Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Many thanks for the livestream transcript :smile:
    "Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
    -
    "To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
  • totenmettotenmet Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    BTW It would be very helpful If I could play test PVE's on Tribble.

    E.g by allowing creation of private queue which I can start when I am alone. Enabling the startbutton also when not enough other players have joined.

    Thank you in advance for implementing this.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    Is there a way to in the new system to allow players with specialized ground characters to invest more points in that part of the skill ‘tree’ and less in the space part?

    There used to be a flex amount of points. The number of Ground Points available in the new system is balanced around spending the maximum you previously could in ground. If you were a space-specialization Captain, you will likely end up gaining ground functionality. The concept of being focused on either ground or space is something we wanted to get away from, and our story content model doesn’t support it. We want you to be able to excel at both.

    Will we see special skill unlocks such as in a Featured Episode Reward, similar to how you receive traits? Or other trees?

    Anything that gives you additional skill points, or different Skills, would give a different player a different experience and isn’t something we want to do for a system that is such a core part of your progression. It’s safe to say that this is unlikely.

    Why are hanger pet buffs in the skill tree, separate from being its own full specialization?

    We saw an opportunity to improve your hangar pets where we feel it fits well.

    Just because it’s in the tactical path, it doesn’t mean you need to spend everything on tactical to get it – skill ranks unlock based on points spent in any Profession category (Tac, Eng, Sci).

    The additional unlocks for hangar pets are meant to be smaller bonuses, not primary motivations for how to spend your Skill
    Points.

    How is Inspirational Leader supposed to work with this new skill tree?

    Inspirational Leader (Space Trait) may become very powerful as the new system has a lot of flexibility. It will be translated to give bonuses to skills that exist under the new system, but it won’t grant bonuses to every skill.

    Will we be able to create different builds and toggle which one we want to use much like the saved "ship builds" we have today? Will there be an option to buy additional skill build slots from the ZEN store?

    Implementing something like “Build Slots” would be a very time-consuming effort, and we haven’t even investigated what technical hurdles might exist in attempting to create something like that. Definitely won’t see anything like this for Season 11.5.

    Also, we want Captains to have a sense of identity that they can commit to. Being able to change builds at will reduces the weight and impact of your Skill choices. As such, it’s safe to say we probably won’t create this functionality.


    Will there be ways to make skill respecs easier to obtain?

    All players will have their Skills reset, and will be given one Free Captain Retrain Token at launch. We will also be holding a discount promotion, which will reduce the price of further Respec Tokens.
    We’re still in discussions about this, and there may be additional changes made after the launch, but nothing we’re ready to announce yet.


    Is there some sort of “master guide” or conversion chart” that’ll help players identify what new skill is the correspondence for the “current skill”?

    This is a great idea! Not sure we’ll be able to, but we’d like to. Even if we end up pursuing this, we would have to wait till the new Skill System revamp is finalized before building any sort of chart for players.

    What are some interesting builds you see players putting together with the new skills this revamp adds that couldn’t be done before?

    A perfect example is we added a new science skill that reduces weapon drop off at range. This is something that didn’t exist before, and we could easily see someone investing highly in mobility as a “sniper ship”. We also expect to see players experiment with highly defensive and survivable builds a bit more, in both Ground and Space.

    How will the new “Threatening Stance” interact with “Attract Fire”?

    They both use a mechanic called AI Threat scaling, and everything that uses that same mechanic are all a modifier that is applied at the end of the outgoing Threat calculations, so they will work together.

    Are tactical skills too heavily encouraged in the current skill revamp available on Tribble?
    No. We did a lot of work to ensure that the other “non-damage” skills worthwhile. If you still don’t feel that way, we’re open to feedback!

    Are there any other skills in the new skill tree that I would need points in to get back approximately what we have now on Holodeck?

    There are a few core mechanics that were adjusted when we created this system. We recommend putting a few points in shield hardness and shield regeneration and long range targeting (if you used beams), in order to get your performance under the new system to match your current Holodeck performance in those areas.

    Does the shield penetration and hull penetration apply to torpedoes too or only energy weapons?

    They should apply to both Energy and Projectiles, including targetable torpedoes.

    Why did you decide to tie the pets so much into the Tactical Skill Path?

    The idea of the Tactical Captain being the damage dealer isn’t really classic Star Trek. They’re the ones coordinating the battlefield.

    What’s being done in order to balance ultimate abilities such as the ultimate ability for Engineers?

    We’re still in the tuning process for these and are looking for additional feedback with this. They will definitely be improved from their current status on Tribble.

    Will Hull Regen be added to Engineering Fleet, since the skill got split?

    Yes. Engineering Fleet, as well as a few other abilities, will have Hull Regen added to their functionality.

    EPS Manifold requires batteries to be effective. Are there any plans to change this?

    We’ll review this and see about potential changes. This Trait should not rely on the Skill to reach its full potential.

    Will skill build choices be reflected visually in any way? (Costumes, Titles, Icons, etc.)
    That’s an interesting suggestion, though we don’t have anything in mind for this right now.

    How will this affect our current builds?

    You should be able to recreate your current build in the new system, as well as get some new toys along the way. Hopefully you’ll enjoy the opportunity to try something new as well!

    Why is it that each point must be committed as we go along, as opposed to spending all our points and then “confirming”?

    Attempting to implement that technology in the new system would cause us to have to face technical problems that could potentially mean we wouldn’t be able to ship this feature.
    Additionally, the point-by-point purchase is exactly the same experience you would have as you level up. It’s very standard for MMOs in general.


    Why can’t other pets (i.e.: like separated sauces or the Odyssey’s Aquarius escort) get the same benefit from Hangar skills?

    They will! Based on player feedback, we’re adding additional bonuses to the Coordination skills which will benefit summoned pets, and player teammates. This change should be arriving on Tribble shortly.


    What goals did you lay out for this system, and how will you measure the success of it?

    The feedback has been a great measure for this. Just the fact that the bulk of the feedback Tribble has been positive has been already a win. Our further long term success is making it easier and more fun to progress through the game, and seeing fewer players have problems learning how to progress their characters.


    What’s the weirdest/funniest/surprising thing you discovered while reworking the skill system?

    There was a very prominent thread that I made about the strengthened strengths and resistible resists. There were a number of abilities that players could use that could cause potential recursions or out of hand scaling that flew off the charts. That was probably the most surprising and important thing we discovered.


    What was the greatest obstacle in making this revamp?

    Implementation obstacles are never the big ones that stand out. The biggest obstacle I faced was a philosophical and design one trying to marry the ideas of don’t change the entire game, don’t break anything, and make sure that players can get everything they could get previously, while still making it a better experience. That has been the biggest challenge and biggest obstacle. It’s also the one I feel the most fulfilled about having overcome.

    When is 11.5 live?

    Giraffes. This year.

    What was your thought in combining beam and torpedo skills?

    There has been talk about combining these two but there are a number of obstacles. We have tried to come up with a skill to take its place if we were to get rid of that, but no great ideas have taken root.

    What about all the personal DOFF missions that give skill boosts?

    Translated! They will benefit the new skills. However if there are any that are missing, let us know.

    What will be happening to our built-up expertise?

    Nothing, they won’t be touched.

    Is there going to be a new specialization soon?

    Maybe!

    As a returning player after a long absence, how easy will it be to pick up the new skill system?

    The exact amount of difficulty if you were an existing player. I don’t think it’s going to be especially more difficult than a current player. In fact, a player with fewer preconceptions, and that tries less to exactly replicate an existing build, may have more fun with this than a veteran that is set in their ways.

    What is the best way to contact us?

    Our official forums.

    Will we get the respec tokens we have already spent back?

    No. Though you will be getting a free respec token for each character when this goes live, in addition to the skill reset that will naturally occur.


    Will the numerical stats for all skills like Shield Hardness be displayed in the status page?

    It is on the list of things that we would like to update in the near future, along with other changes to this page. We’re looking at what we can add and remove to make it a cleaner experience.

    Will there be any opportunities to gain any more skill points at different portions in the storyline?

    We strongly doubt we’ll be adding additional skill points as it would change the balance of the core progression in the skill system. If it were ever to occur, no more than 1-2 points would ever be offered, over the entire lifespan of STO.

    Do the new shield and hull penetration skills stack with the [PEN] modifier?

    They’re the same thing under the hood. They don’t stack, but they both apply.

    Is Plasmonic Leech still working in the skill system?

    It did get rebalanced but it still performs quite well.

    Is the free respec character once per account or once per character?

    Per character.

    Are the current respec tokens that players have invalid with the new system?

    They will work just fine in the new system.

    Why 46 skill points?

    It is one point per level starting at level 5 until level 50. Specialization points are meant to be your means of progression past level 50.

    You missed the Hydra question at the end ;)
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    Meh I like the fact of changing things up but in relation to when boffs were changed where all of the icons were changed its still a nightmare to the point where with the amount of alts I have their old baseline setups can't even be determined along with trying to learn the new icons.

    This could have been handled different with these revamps if like say for example having a choice whether to use new icon art or keep the old with stuff pre-existing. Is why when I do play I'll do something just on one character these days and then just wait for the next new content to come out with starbases along with this revamp after revamp just burns players out and not really get any enjoyment out of the game anymore. Anyways that is my 2 cents on it.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Would Borticus PLEASE come up with a real answer as to why there are a total of 46 skill points? Answering an obviously qualitative question with a quantitative answer was such a cop-out.

    Why couldn't it had been 50? 45? 40?
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    Would Borticus PLEASE come up with a real answer as to why there are a total of 46 skill points? Answering an obviously qualitative question with a quantitative answer was such a cop-out.

    Why couldn't it had been 50? 45? 40?

    Perhaps I can help answer this question to help better understand the situation with the 46 space points.

    It would seem that they developed the system for a new character (tutorial wise or one you just recently created and skipped the tutorial) to reach level 5, the skills unlock. For a new player just starting the game, the character is in the tutorial from Cadet all the way to Lieutenant 4 when they are on the final portion of the Tutorial prior to reaching Earth Space dock (the part where you are on Vega rescuing as many non-assimilated people as you can.

    Once the skills unlock at level 5, you're rewarded 1 space point and 1 ground point. From level 6-50, you'll gain 45 more space points, which when added to the first you gain, equals 46. By starting it from Level 5, it doesn't overwhelm new players just joining the game by giving them a tutorial for a system while they're in the middle of the tutorial story.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    I must admit the carrier pet skills also bug me. That's the type of skill that's only useful like 5% of the time you'd be playing (in fact even less for me, I don't quite like carriers and only have flown a couple).

    As long as not all ships have hangar bays (and no, don't make all ships have hangar bays, PLEASE NO!), you'll find yourself having absolutely no benefit out those skills unless you happen to fly a carrier. They really should have rather been traits instead.

    EDIT: To deflect some potential counterarguments:

    Usually any ship can slot energy and/or projectile weapons.
    Usually any ship can slot abilities benefitting from the "science wizardry skills".
    Usually any ship will benefit from more/more resisting hull and/or shields.
    ...

    With benefits to hangar pets, it's really quite restrictive and very situational in the lifespan of any character.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,254 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    “Do the new shield and hull penetration skills stack with the [PEN] modifier?
    They’re the same thing under the hood. They don’t stack, but they both apply.”
    What about the traits does it stack with those? If not I wasted 6 skill points in my test build. That’s the type of info needs to be in the skill description as I am already tight on skill points after my key skills got split apart into multiply skills.

    “How will this affect our current builds?
    You should be able to recreate your current build in the new system, as well as get some new toys along the way. Hopefully you’ll enjoy the opportunity to try something new as well!”.
    Last time I logged in there was no skill points for the Kinetic ground weapons I and my away team use which there is on the live server. The new toys and skill system seem bias towards energy weapons and against projectile and mine captains. Long Range targeting no use to me as I use projectiles, apparently the new penetration skills are useless to me as they don't stack. Where are the new things for projectiles like what energy captains get? Mines barley even get a mention. As for try new things the skills I use have been split apart so I don't have spare points to try new things. Due to how tight skill points are I will be no longer be mixing energy and projectile weapons. :( Although that might change a little if the penetration skills are doing nothing)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    toiva wrote: »
    I must admit the carrier pet skills also bug me. That's the type of skill that's only useful like 5% of the time you'd be playing (in fact even less for me, I don't quite like carriers and only have flown a couple).
    This is why I think it'd be better if the carrier skills buffed all space pets, not just carrier pets.
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    My character Tsin'xing
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  • jaegersonjaegerson Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    Thanks for the info.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    toiva wrote: »
    I must admit the carrier pet skills also bug me. That's the type of skill that's only useful like 5% of the time you'd be playing (in fact even less for me, I don't quite like carriers and only have flown a couple).
    This is why I think it'd be better if the carrier skills buffed all space pets, not just carrier pets.

    Borticus stated in the livestream that this will be the case in a coming update
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Carrier skills will also grant a lesser buff to ALL your teammates as well... these will be very useful on support builds which carriers suit very well. In fact they may become part of the DPS Meta depending on the buff.

    Nannies to the rescue.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    toiva wrote: »
    I must admit the carrier pet skills also bug me. That's the type of skill that's only useful like 5% of the time you'd be playing (in fact even less for me, I don't quite like carriers and only have flown a couple).
    This is why I think it'd be better if the carrier skills buffed all space pets, not just carrier pets.
    Borticus stated in the livestream that this will be the case in a coming update
    Good, good...

    95273ffc2e84ea161d48ea07487227ca.jpg
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    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Carrier skills will also grant a lesser buff to ALL your teammates as well... these will be very useful on support builds which carriers suit very well. In fact they may become part of the DPS Meta depending on the buff.

    Nannies to the rescue.

    Ah, I was counting on it also buffing non-hangar pets soon. Which would be better but still not all that useful.
    Now buffing teammates? Alright, you got me. Then it gets at least some use in many situations. Thumbs up for that.

    Onto another matter now: is there a way in the new skill system to buff Full impulse like Driver Coil used to? Particularly a way for Full impulse not to drain power to only 5 in all subsystems but Engines? 9 points in Driver Coil mean that while at Full Impulse, power levels drop only to 25 (and also lead to a higher Full Impulse speed and turn rate).
    As someone who always puts at least 6 points in Driver Coil, I wouldn't like to see those bonuses go (sector space speed buff can be achieved in an unlock, at least).
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    toiva wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Carrier skills will also grant a lesser buff to ALL your teammates as well... these will be very useful on support builds which carriers suit very well. In fact they may become part of the DPS Meta depending on the buff.

    Nannies to the rescue.

    Ah, I was counting on it also buffing non-hangar pets soon. Which would be better but still not all that useful.
    Now buffing teammates? Alright, you got me. Then it gets at least some use in many situations. Thumbs up for that.

    Onto another matter now: is there a way in the new skill system to buff Full impulse like Driver Coil used to? Particularly a way for Full impulse not to drain power to only 5 in all subsystems but Engines? 9 points in Driver Coil mean that while at Full Impulse, power levels drop only to 25 (and also lead to a higher Full Impulse speed and turn rate).
    As someone who always puts at least 6 points in Driver Coil, I wouldn't like to see those bonuses go (sector space speed buff can be achieved in an unlock, at least).
    Yeah, but it currently requires buying EPS as a pre-req.
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    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • keletteskelettes Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    toiva wrote: »
    Onto another matter now: is there a way in the new skill system to buff Full impulse like Driver Coil used to? Particularly a way for Full impulse not to drain power to only 5 in all subsystems but Engines? 9 points in Driver Coil mean that while at Full Impulse, power levels drop only to 25 (and also lead to a higher Full Impulse speed and turn rate).
    As someone who always puts at least 6 points in Driver Coil, I wouldn't like to see those bonuses go (sector space speed buff can be achieved in an unlock, at least).

    I could be wrong, but I think you are looking for "Full Impulse Energy Shunt" :smile:
    "Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
    -
    "To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    I won't be wasting bandwidth downloading tribble.

    I'll just create "crash-test dummie" toons to test my builds and scrap them once I find one I like.

    Much like the rest of the money-grabbing features this games markets as content, I won't spend a dime.

    And I'm confident that by the time I reach level 60 there will be a plethora of premium builds out there to choice from. Because, lets face it ... its certainly not rocket science clicking on vertically aligned buttons. Its not like there's exactly a minefield of choices.

    Perhaps while I'm pondering the majestic on the moment, Cyptic might find the time to fix the fact that "House Pegh" NPCS spawn underground... or that in the First City the fire lanterns have been defying gravity for close to a year now.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    @vegeta50024

    I agree that what you said is the most likely reason, one that I had concluded myself. The real question is why can't a dev' answer in a thoughtful manner like that, in a way that educates the consumer, and not an answer that made it sound like he didn't feel like he wanted to take the effort to answer it.
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