Everyone seems to be forgetting that Vosk didn't choose to ally himself with Hitler. He and his followers got themselves stranded in an alternate 20th century where the TRIBBLE were winning all on their own, thanks to another time traveler who assassinated Lenin in 1916. If they'd landed in America or Britain, they like would have teamed up with the Allies.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
When Wernher von Braun was asked how the Germans were able to create such technology as they had done too little too late to influence the war. Von Braun pointed up, and said "We had help."
Von Braun also warned us all of the New World Order. He said a false flag alien attack would be initiated so that the weaponization of space could happen.
There's another fellow of NASA fame, Jack Parsons. He studied witchcraft at night, under Crowley's O.T.O. and built rocket engines for NASA during the day.
Look into these things only if you dare. Don't blame me if you become addicted to learning what's behind The Veil.
Nothing sets up quality entertainment quite like knowing ahead of time that your main adversary is gonna be beaten by someone else in past.
I honestly tried to give this storyline the benefit of the doubt, but it's just gonna end up a mess like the time travel stuff in Season 10, isn't it? Nothing left but to wait for Season 12 and hope for a story without time travel and with an original villain. (Come to think of it, how about a story without a central villain? That can be done, you know.)
Nothing sets up quality entertainment quite like knowing ahead of time that your main adversary is gonna be beaten by someone else in past.
I honestly tried to give this storyline the benefit of the doubt, but it's just gonna end up a mess like the time travel stuff in Season 10, isn't it? Nothing left but to wait for Season 12 and hope for a story without time travel and with an original villain. (Come to think of it, how about a story without a central villain? That can be done, you know.)
No, I don't think we'll actually end up against Vosk... unless we're the ones who end up stranding him in WWIII. But the blog already alluded to a one-way mission, so I don't think that's it.
Cryptic does its best work when the Devs take a side-element from one of the shows and expand on it.
The 2800 series was (mostly) awesome story-telling and some great missions came out of that. Delta Rising/Iconian War had some problems but just the fact that they tied the Vaadwaur and the Iconians together was a great idea and the Vaadwaur were the best STO villains to come along in awhile.
I'm kind of expecting the Krenim/Builders to be the main event, which I'm honestly not crazy about yet. We just got done with an advanced race using other species as pawns and it's a little too soon to go back there again. Fighting the Na'khul as temporal terrorists seems like a more interesting angle.
[SNIP]
We are all supposed to be exploring anyway ^^
^^THIS x Infinity.
Wasn't this supposed to be the "exploration focused" season? Enough with the fricking wars (temporal or otherwise) already, and give us some exploration as promised!
Jeez, the old exploration clusters were better than this season so far!
I like the parents' portrayal in this blog entry, but seriously - stop wasting your writers on blogs and endless pages of V.O. monologues, and write in-game episodes for OUR characters to have actual choices.
I've been writing and re-writing condensed versions of things I've written before for the last hour.
The SpacePewPew>GroundPewPew>Alienspecies>MorePewPew thing has gotten stale.
We beat the iconians... in a very trek way, and that was cool. But I don't wanna start a battle across time. I don't wanna fight another generic alien race that randomly comes to power, shows up outta the blew, and then blows up earth. I wanna get back to exploring.
and no, I don't mean I wanna get exploration clusters or some other cheap gimmick back.
I want Bridges. And so does everyone else. Just look at the Galaxy/Intrepid/etc Viral videos people did in UE4 or even the fangame RPG-x.
...As an avid sector space HATER, I frequently point out that getting to your destination is incredibly boring, and highly redundant as you have to beam off spacedock, to Sol, to sector space.
quite franky, we don't require this secondary world map. Stick me on my ship's bridge, let me instruct my conn officer to take us to Nimbus III (via conversation dialog, new UI, I don't care), and then let me wander my ship while it either happens instantly or takes us some random amount of actual time (like a countdown timer) to fly there (basically sector space, but not).
Your "NEW DAWN" should really be letting us get to know our crew. As I can select my "Chief Medical Officer", let me go down to sick bay (yes im suggesting you give each ship a medbay) and find my CMO being stressed out over a case of talaxian mudvipers not breeding correctly.
Let me make my "Jeremy Neelix Guinan" boff the Bartender so I can wander to my TenForward and tell him my problems. Let me get to know my crew, with other players. Let me experience what it's actually like to be a ship captain and not just a spec-ops terminator, solving questions with pewpew or by doing cheesy puzzles to solve disputes.
Give me real story. Human story. Story with emotion or passion.
Quit introducing new bland characters that we never really get to know (Yes Quinn, Shon, I'm talking to you) and make use of the ones you have.
Take Shon... he's Ent-F Captain, he's shown up a few times, and he's kinda acted like a moron and/or been totally useless. Shon has no respect from me, and players can't meet his crew on Utopia Planetia anymore.. Moreover, since ThomasTheCat spearheaded this "all faction npcs look alike" thing, Most players wouldn't even know that the enterprise F crew hangs about in ESD's Club!
...but send us on a diplomatic mission aboard the Enterprise F (here's how you create your first and generic new season interior). Let us explore the inner workings of the Odyssey as we help out Shon (and for god sakes keep it smaller scale like intrepid/tos/belfast and not psycho-huge like prettymuch everything else) Let us get to know how a crew actually works... let us visit a quartermaster. Let us appoint boffs as crew members (this will cause people to actually buy boff slots from the c-store as the 4 boff away teams are pretty useless)
Back to ESD's Club. Desperate Trill shows up randomly, interacts with females around the club, then gets kicked out by the bouncer. DO MORE OF THIS. not just DT Showing up (but make him show up too) but do this everywhere! Make Admiral Quinn wander around ESD.. maybe go to the Medical ward to get his heart checked since he has a problem in that area.... or make him go over to the exchange and complain about the price of [CryoTribble [Sta] [omg]] or something.
Even on story missions or other adventure zones, Stick a bunch of random character npcs that show up and do something into the game. Not just say "hey Admiral Starchaser" (no thats my dad, i have captain as a tag, i have captain pips, stop calling me admiral) or npcs that idle somewhere forever.
add LIFE to the universe. It makes us feel less alone. even if they have random dialog options with players.. or if DT would randomly hit on Female players every 0.04599999% of the time... It'd really be more engaging.
Yeah. I'll stop here. It's not gonna make a difference anyway.
You know, I actually l wandering around in sector Space; chance to roam around and making a mark for oneself (gain skill points and expertise) through the occasional patrol mission and what not.
Other than that.... Cryptic, are you paying attention?
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Vosk didn't choose to ally himself with Hitler. He and his followers got themselves stranded in an alternate 20th century where the TRIBBLE were winning all on their own, thanks to another time traveler who assassinated Lenin in 1916. If they'd landed in America or Britain, they like would have teamed up with the Allies.
Good memory excellent point. Though somehow I wonder if the allies would've been so inclined to assist them. Stalin though...Stalin would've been all in. Hitler had a rather unique personality trait, he was all about super weapons and new technology. Everyone else was trying to catch up to the Axis as WWII started.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You know, I actually l wandering around in sector Space; chance to roam around and making a mark for oneself (gain skill points and expertise) through the occasional patrol mission and what not.
Other than that.... Cryptic, are you paying attention?
Ideally it would be an alternative to sector space with both as an option. This way they can keep things like Tour The universe while making "bridges" have more purpose, and thus be something that they can devote time to adding.
Yeah for those in this thread who are wanting Cryptic to better push exploration, I think the clusters should be brought back in a new format. I propose that these areas should be populated with Foundry episodes that don't start at named systems on the main map. For the sake of consistency, authors should be allowed to tie their missions to a cluster of their choice, and have any chained missions start from the same area, in the correct order.
The missions would start in exactly the same way that the old "aid planet" mini missions started. You scan the star, but instead of getting the generic Cryptic mission, you get a randomly selected Foundry mission that you haven't played before.
But I like a lot of what rahhmi and whisperor are saying as well.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Vosk didn't choose to ally himself with Hitler. He and his followers got themselves stranded in an alternate 20th century where the TRIBBLE were winning all on their own, thanks to another time traveler who assassinated Lenin in 1916. If they'd landed in America or Britain, they like would have teamed up with the Allies.
Good memory excellent point. Though somehow I wonder if the allies would've been so inclined to assist them. Stalin though...Stalin would've been all in. Hitler had a rather unique personality trait, he was all about super weapons and new technology. Everyone else was trying to catch up to the Axis as WWII started.
Hmm... when I saw that in ENT I kinda assumed it was actually the Na'kuhl who killed Stalin. Not sure on the specifics though. Stalin's death was a one-liner so there's not much to go on.
Let me express you my utter disappointment. You make villains out of unfortunate Na'kuhl. You yourself have taken Na'kuhl's planet, history, culture and everything else. Well, yes, of course, for the Federation, democracy and freedom in the Galaxy! Don't you feel that it's as far from the canonical Star Trek morality as the Alpha Quadrant from the Delta Quadrant?
Finally, I'm sorry, the plot is not brand new. Just another incarnation of Nero and Romulus story. Lack of Ideas, yeah? Maybe it's enough of planet-destroying and alien-genocide-like storyes?
In addition, players who want to play for the Romulans or Klingons, are not particularly interested. Not only we do not want do destroy Nak'kul but they evoke sympathy, and we are forced to do this by absence of alternatives in the script.
Na'kuls do not need "help" from the Federation of Planets - they will become extinct completely because of it! Bring them your apologies and give one of the your numerous planets! Suitable for life, if possible. (Not the wreckage of Romulus if possible)
But no - the question is stille open for 300 years, while there is always enough time to boldly go where no man has gone before some new vassals can be found. Dear scriptwriters, end up with this shameful topic, is not worthy Star Trek humanity.
By the way, we were promised "the mysteries of space and scientific research." And where are they? That's it?
Hmm... when I saw that in ENT I kinda assumed it was actually the Na'kuhl who killed Stalin. Not sure on the specifics though. Stalin's death was a one-liner so there's not much to go on.
Here's what was said in the episode:
Reed: "I think I've pinpointed where the timeline changed. Someone assassinated Lenin in 1916."
Archer: "Who took his place?"
Reed: "No one. So without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power, Russia didn't become communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."
Archer: "Hitler was able to concentrate on the West."
Reed: "Yeah. After France, Belgium and the Netherlands fell. Hitler quickly took England, and then the eastern United States.
T'Pol: "But Vosk and his men arrived recently. A few years ago."
Archer: "Then they couldn't have been responsible for the changes that took place in 1916."
Reed: "The police never found Lenin's assassin. Some bystanders said that the killer vanished into thin air."
T'Pol: "Daniels said that numerous factions in the Temporal War were making changes throughout the timeline. Perhaps this assassin was working for one of them."
Reed: "But ... I thought he brought us here to prevent the Temporal War."
Archer: "The chicken and the egg."
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Hmm... when I saw that in ENT I kinda assumed it was actually the Na'kuhl who killed Stalin. Not sure on the specifics though. Stalin's death was a one-liner so there's not much to go on.
Here's what was said in the episode:
Reed: "I think I've pinpointed where the timeline changed. Someone assassinated Lenin in 1916."
Archer: "Who took his place?"
Reed: "No one. So without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power, Russia didn't become communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."
Archer: "Hitler was able to concentrate on the West."
Reed: "Yeah. After France, Belgium and the Netherlands fell. Hitler quickly took England, and then the eastern United States.
T'Pol: "But Vosk and his men arrived recently. A few years ago."
Archer: "Then they couldn't have been responsible for the changes that took place in 1916."
Reed: "The police never found Lenin's assassin. Some bystanders said that the killer vanished into thin air."
T'Pol: "Daniels said that numerous factions in the Temporal War were making changes throughout the timeline. Perhaps this assassin was working for one of them."
Reed: "But ... I thought he brought us here to prevent the Temporal War."
Archer: "The chicken and the egg."
At least I will console myself with the thought that Cryptic is unlikely to set us up to prevent Lenin's assassination in that timeline... No way are they going to build a 1916 set with period costumes, cool as that might be, for a one-shot mission.
Hmm... when I saw that in ENT I kinda assumed it was actually the Na'kuhl who killed Stalin. Not sure on the specifics though. Stalin's death was a one-liner so there's not much to go on.
Here's what was said in the episode:
Reed: "I think I've pinpointed where the timeline changed. Someone assassinated Lenin in 1916."
Archer: "Who took his place?"
Reed: "No one. So without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power, Russia didn't become communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."
Archer: "Hitler was able to concentrate on the West."
Reed: "Yeah. After France, Belgium and the Netherlands fell. Hitler quickly took England, and then the eastern United States.
T'Pol: "But Vosk and his men arrived recently. A few years ago."
Archer: "Then they couldn't have been responsible for the changes that took place in 1916."
Reed: "The police never found Lenin's assassin. Some bystanders said that the killer vanished into thin air."
T'Pol: "Daniels said that numerous factions in the Temporal War were making changes throughout the timeline. Perhaps this assassin was working for one of them."
Reed: "But ... I thought he brought us here to prevent the Temporal War."
Archer: "The chicken and the egg."
At least I will console myself with the thought that Cryptic is unlikely to set us up to prevent Lenin's assassination in that timeline... No way are they going to build a 1916 set with period costumes, cool as that might be, for a one-shot mission.
They could have us prevent the other guy from going back in time.
hmm.... ok, well, now I wonder what the devs might do with that dangler. WHO did it?
Hmm... when I saw that in ENT I kinda assumed it was actually the Na'kuhl who killed Stalin. Not sure on the specifics though. Stalin's death was a one-liner so there's not much to go on.
Here's what was said in the episode:
Reed: "I think I've pinpointed where the timeline changed. Someone assassinated Lenin in 1916."
Archer: "Who took his place?"
Reed: "No one. So without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power, Russia didn't become communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."
Archer: "Hitler was able to concentrate on the West."
Reed: "Yeah. After France, Belgium and the Netherlands fell. Hitler quickly took England, and then the eastern United States.
T'Pol: "But Vosk and his men arrived recently. A few years ago."
Archer: "Then they couldn't have been responsible for the changes that took place in 1916."
Reed: "The police never found Lenin's assassin. Some bystanders said that the killer vanished into thin air."
T'Pol: "Daniels said that numerous factions in the Temporal War were making changes throughout the timeline. Perhaps this assassin was working for one of them."
Reed: "But ... I thought he brought us here to prevent the Temporal War."
Archer: "The chicken and the egg."
At least I will console myself with the thought that Cryptic is unlikely to set us up to prevent Lenin's assassination in that timeline... No way are they going to build a 1916 set with period costumes, cool as that might be, for a one-shot mission.
They could have us prevent the other guy from going back in time.
hmm.... ok, well, now I wonder what the devs might do with that dangler. WHO did it?
Might see them allude to it in a blog. I doubt we'll see anything in-game. I could be wrong, though.
Ok, my problem with this story is no that they are fanatics, but that its a prime example of something Star trek sometimes struggles with. Was this a story from WW2 era Europe or a completely alien culture? Why do these writers so often have trouble writing a culture that is not only not an earth culture, but not a post 19th century western culture? Are you kidding?! Nuclear family, mother and father. Father is the stern patriarch. Mother is the peacemaker cook. They are husband and wife. They didn't even try to add any alien elements into it. Now I hear the retort already, that they were TRYING to draw a parallel to some past western fanatical moment on earth. If that's the case they used a sledge hammer where they should have used a scalpel. You can draw parallels without making it so overt as to beat us over the head it. The majority of us aren't so stupid that we couldn't get a subtle point wrapped in something that is at least an amalgam of several earth cultures (If you really can be bothered coming up with any creative or original family/societal structure and scenario). I mean my god, the aliens that are just humans with nose bumps have been portrayed as more different and dynamic than this. Why not a multi-parent home culture, or a Brave New World setup where the government authority raises all the children (which could go really well with a fascist conflict bent society). Maybe only one parent raises the kids. For frak sake maybe do the bare minimum of the father being the one cooking, or the mother being the stern matriarch. It doesn't have to be totally unrecognizable, just some god damn variety thrown in. My point is, this story was lazy to an extreme, and I really think you can do better.
Umm... that's an interesting point, but not the focus of the story. Which I suspect is why the writers didn't bother even trying to be original. The nature of Na'kuhl family structure is essentially irrelevant. the focus of the story was on what the Na'kuhl thought about fighting a temporal war. If the writer had decided to come up with something interesting, they would have had to wedge the explanation into the story, but that would make it longer for no good reason.
The problem is we are still left with questions as to why the Na'kuhl are acting they way they are. We have no frame of reference as to whether this is they way have always been or is this a recent change due to the recent events. Was there a radical change in their government and cultural outlook or was encountering them just doomed to be this way because of how they are? SO many unknowns and this story provides no answers to build any basis of how to view these people and this family in particular. There is nothing to measure it with that is relevant. And that is where this story goes wrong. We need the cultural history of these people in order to view this dialog in the proper context. And with out that, we don not know how to take the portrayed events and to view them as tragic or typical or some kind of anomaly. Until we have more information on the Na'kuhl, and what they were truly like before the cooling of their sun, we will never be able to properly understand the motivations and position. Nor can we tell just how much the events have changed them, if at all.
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
Very good questions. But yeah, it does seem that they are rather xenophobic.
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
Very good questions. But yeah, it does seem that they are rather xenophobic.
From what I have seen written, I can't make that call. It still too muddied. At times they seem Xenophobic, then at others they seem just bitter, and at other times they seem gruff but grateful for help. All these mixed signals makes it hard to know what is norm and what is not for them. I guess I am just looking for some background to create some clarity.
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
Very good questions. But yeah, it does seem that they are rather xenophobic.
From what I have seen written, I can't make that call. It still too muddied. At times they seem Xenophobic, then at others they seem just bitter, and at other times they seem gruff but grateful for help. All these mixed signals makes it hard to know what is norm and what is not for them. I guess I am just looking for some background to create some clarity.
I would imagine that those responses are on the fly. They were happy to have our assistance when we were stopping the Tholians, but immediately shifted full blame on to us once it was foolishly stated that the tool that did this was of our manufacture. I would've disavowed the heck out of Kal Dano on the grounds of the Temporal Prime Directive. Anyway, once we failed to resolve the situation they wanted nothing further to do with us. If they were human I would say you never get a second chance to make a first impression. The Na'khul seem to have come to the absolute conclusion at the government level that the Federation is more trouble than it's worth. The conclusion of "time is a weapon" is also a fascinating jump. Especially with no knowledge of the Krenim temporal weapon ship. The Tholians stole a piece of technology and then killed their star with it. The outcome is still more benign than if they had stolen Soran's weapon, and the exact same as if they had succeeded with the Lukari star.
What's normal for them is an interesting question. Generally speaking it's now derided when a species is too monolithic in thought. As this chapter demonstrates the Na'khul have varied opinions on what happened even centuries in the future. It seems that their defining trait at this point...is pride, perhaps with a hint of paranoia. They seem to think that any altruism extended towards them by the Federation is, like with Klingon thinking, an attempt to subvert their autonomy, and "conquer them without firing a shot" as J'mpok would say. The fact that a Federation officer from the future created the artifact that destroyed their sun, and now the Federation (because the Klingons and Romulans don't exist in this) is offering to "help". They seem to be trying to act like they're not stupid enough to fall for it. At the same time, they feel like since we f*cked up their collective lives, that we should also take responsibility. I would imagine they would perhaps be more cooperative if Kal Dano and our captain committed seppuku in front of their leaders as an apology. At the same time, they seem a pragmatic enough people to not care about that as that still wouldn't bring back their sun. I'd hate to see the criminal justice system. I wonder if the phrase mercy of the court even exists in their society.
I wouldn't call them xenophobic, but rather insular. As opposed to the Lukari who seem friendly, open-minded, and gregarious; the Na'khul seem stubborn, narrow minded, and antisocial. As generalizations. Furthermore, their attitude in the future also seems to be of a very dominant type, they don't seem set to simply stop at preserving their world, they want to conquer the other civilizations in order to reorder things so they're never in a position to be attacked again. Which is impossible.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
There is one piece of context that seems relevant. they live on the edge of Federation space and they apparently didn't want to interact with the Feds even before the Tox incident.
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
Very good questions. But yeah, it does seem that they are rather xenophobic.
From what I have seen written, I can't make that call. It still too muddied. At times they seem Xenophobic, then at others they seem just bitter, and at other times they seem gruff but grateful for help. All these mixed signals makes it hard to know what is norm and what is not for them. I guess I am just looking for some background to create some clarity.
I would imagine that those responses are on the fly. They were happy to have our assistance when we were stopping the Tholians, but immediately shifted full blame on to us once it was foolishly stated that the tool that did this was of our manufacture. I would've disavowed the heck out of Kal Dano on the grounds of the Temporal Prime Directive. Anyway, once we failed to resolve the situation they wanted nothing further to do with us. If they were human I would say you never get a second chance to make a first impression. The Na'khul seem to have come to the absolute conclusion at the government level that the Federation is more trouble than it's worth. The conclusion of "time is a weapon" is also a fascinating jump. Especially with no knowledge of the Krenim temporal weapon ship. The Tholians stole a piece of technology and then killed their star with it. The outcome is still more benign than if they had stolen Soran's weapon, and the exact same as if they had succeeded with the Lukari star.
What's normal for them is an interesting question. Generally speaking it's now derided when a species is too monolithic in thought. As this chapter demonstrates the Na'khul have varied opinions on what happened even centuries in the future. It seems that their defining trait at this point...is pride, perhaps with a hint of paranoia. They seem to think that any altruism extended towards them by the Federation is, like with Klingon thinking, an attempt to subvert their autonomy, and "conquer them without firing a shot" as J'mpok would say. The fact that a Federation officer from the future created the artifact that destroyed their sun, and now the Federation (because the Klingons and Romulans don't exist in this) is offering to "help". They seem to be trying to act like they're not stupid enough to fall for it. At the same time, they feel like since we f*cked up their collective lives, that we should also take responsibility. I would imagine they would perhaps be more cooperative if Kal Dano and our captain committed seppuku in front of their leaders as an apology. At the same time, they seem a pragmatic enough people to not care about that as that still wouldn't bring back their sun. I'd hate to see the criminal justice system. I wonder if the phrase mercy of the court even exists in their society.
I wouldn't call them xenophobic, but rather insular. As opposed to the Lukari who seem friendly, open-minded, and gregarious; the Na'khul seem stubborn, narrow minded, and antisocial. As generalizations. Furthermore, their attitude in the future also seems to be of a very dominant type, they don't seem set to simply stop at preserving their world, they want to conquer the other civilizations in order to reorder things so they're never in a position to be attacked again. Which is impossible.
As we have only seen this one family, one government official and a couple of protestors (in the future), I am hard pressed to say that any of these are the norm. Only the family gives me any glimmer of hope that there is some sort of reasonableness to the race as a whole, But as this is a snippet during a particular stressful time, it's hard to judge by that. The rest seem to be alarmist reactions at best. But if that is typical of the race or not is just not portray. Even how the society is structured, and what is considered as core societal values are missing so far. And I would hate to judge the entire race based on the actions of a few, hopefully extremist, individuals.
As for the Lukari, we have seen a little bit of how they operate, but I would still like to know more. There is a lot of unknowns there and we have only really dealt with 2 (apparent) females so far. Hard to judge them too with the little data we have.
Umm... that's an interesting point, but not the focus of the story. Which I suspect is why the writers didn't bother even trying to be original. The nature of Na'kuhl family structure is essentially irrelevant. the focus of the story was on what the Na'kuhl thought about fighting a temporal war. If the writer had decided to come up with something interesting, they would have had to wedge the explanation into the story, but that would make it longer for no good reason.
Just because its not your critique of whats wrong with the writing doesn't mean its an invalid critique to make. This story was just as focused on the Na'kul family life as it is on their Xenophobia, or else this could all have occurred at the rally. They specifically presented it in the context of thier home setting to present the Na'kul's home culture, which is where I thought it fell flat. Its not off subject its just off of your subject :-) .
As to your comment, I don't think they would really have to explain much of anything. This is an alien species, so all they had to do was be more creative about the setting and dynamic they were already taking time to describe, and the quality of the story goes up even if you don't have a full sociological understanding. I call cheating shenanigans on their using such a bland and familiar dynamic in the family/home to make us essentially write a lot of the contextual details for them in our heads. Its lazy story telling
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"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Von Braun also warned us all of the New World Order. He said a false flag alien attack would be initiated so that the weaponization of space could happen.
There's another fellow of NASA fame, Jack Parsons. He studied witchcraft at night, under Crowley's O.T.O. and built rocket engines for NASA during the day.
Look into these things only if you dare. Don't blame me if you become addicted to learning what's behind The Veil.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread810793/pg1
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jack+Parsons+and+L+Ron+Hubbard&l=1
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jack+parsons+and+l+ron+hubbard
Nothing sets up quality entertainment quite like knowing ahead of time that your main adversary is gonna be beaten by someone else in past.
I honestly tried to give this storyline the benefit of the doubt, but it's just gonna end up a mess like the time travel stuff in Season 10, isn't it? Nothing left but to wait for Season 12 and hope for a story without time travel and with an original villain. (Come to think of it, how about a story without a central villain? That can be done, you know.)
No, I don't think we'll actually end up against Vosk... unless we're the ones who end up stranding him in WWIII. But the blog already alluded to a one-way mission, so I don't think that's it.
Cryptic does its best work when the Devs take a side-element from one of the shows and expand on it.
The 2800 series was (mostly) awesome story-telling and some great missions came out of that. Delta Rising/Iconian War had some problems but just the fact that they tied the Vaadwaur and the Iconians together was a great idea and the Vaadwaur were the best STO villains to come along in awhile.
I'm kind of expecting the Krenim/Builders to be the main event, which I'm honestly not crazy about yet. We just got done with an advanced race using other species as pawns and it's a little too soon to go back there again. Fighting the Na'khul as temporal terrorists seems like a more interesting angle.
^^THIS x Infinity.
Wasn't this supposed to be the "exploration focused" season? Enough with the fricking wars (temporal or otherwise) already, and give us some exploration as promised!
Jeez, the old exploration clusters were better than this season so far!
I like the parents' portrayal in this blog entry, but seriously - stop wasting your writers on blogs and endless pages of V.O. monologues, and write in-game episodes for OUR characters to have actual choices.
You know, I actually l wandering around in sector Space; chance to roam around and making a mark for oneself (gain skill points and expertise) through the occasional patrol mission and what not.
Other than that....
Cryptic, are you paying attention?
Good memory excellent point. Though somehow I wonder if the allies would've been so inclined to assist them. Stalin though...Stalin would've been all in. Hitler had a rather unique personality trait, he was all about super weapons and new technology. Everyone else was trying to catch up to the Axis as WWII started.
Ideally it would be an alternative to sector space with both as an option. This way they can keep things like Tour The universe while making "bridges" have more purpose, and thus be something that they can devote time to adding.
The missions would start in exactly the same way that the old "aid planet" mini missions started. You scan the star, but instead of getting the generic Cryptic mission, you get a randomly selected Foundry mission that you haven't played before.
But I like a lot of what rahhmi and whisperor are saying as well.
My character Tsin'xing
Let me express you my utter disappointment.
You make villains out of unfortunate Na'kuhl. You yourself have taken Na'kuhl's planet, history, culture and everything else. Well, yes, of course, for the Federation, democracy and freedom in the Galaxy!
Don't you feel that it's as far from the canonical Star Trek morality as the Alpha Quadrant from the Delta Quadrant?
Finally, I'm sorry, the plot is not brand new. Just another incarnation of Nero and Romulus story. Lack of Ideas, yeah? Maybe it's enough of planet-destroying and alien-genocide-like storyes?
In addition, players who want to play for the Romulans or Klingons, are not particularly interested. Not only we do not want do destroy Nak'kul but they evoke sympathy, and we are forced to do this by absence of alternatives in the script.
Na'kuls do not need "help" from the Federation of Planets - they will become extinct completely because of it! Bring them your apologies and give one of the your numerous planets! Suitable for life, if possible. (Not the wreckage of Romulus if possible)
But no - the question is stille open for 300 years, while there is always enough time to boldly go where no man has gone before some new vassals can be found.
Dear scriptwriters, end up with this shameful topic, is not worthy Star Trek humanity.
By the way, we were promised "the mysteries of space and scientific research."
And where are they?
That's it?
Here's what was said in the episode:
Reed: "I think I've pinpointed where the timeline changed. Someone assassinated Lenin in 1916."
Archer: "Who took his place?"
Reed: "No one. So without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power, Russia didn't become communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."
Archer: "Hitler was able to concentrate on the West."
Reed: "Yeah. After France, Belgium and the Netherlands fell. Hitler quickly took England, and then the eastern United States.
T'Pol: "But Vosk and his men arrived recently. A few years ago."
Archer: "Then they couldn't have been responsible for the changes that took place in 1916."
Reed: "The police never found Lenin's assassin. Some bystanders said that the killer vanished into thin air."
T'Pol: "Daniels said that numerous factions in the Temporal War were making changes throughout the timeline. Perhaps this assassin was working for one of them."
Reed: "But ... I thought he brought us here to prevent the Temporal War."
Archer: "The chicken and the egg."
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
At least I will console myself with the thought that Cryptic is unlikely to set us up to prevent Lenin's assassination in that timeline... No way are they going to build a 1916 set with period costumes, cool as that might be, for a one-shot mission.
hmm.... ok, well, now I wonder what the devs might do with that dangler. WHO did it?
My character Tsin'xing
Might see them allude to it in a blog. I doubt we'll see anything in-game. I could be wrong, though.
My character Tsin'xing
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
My character Tsin'xing
But why is that? Is it cultural thing, as in they are just plain Xenophobic? Or o they have stupid leaders? Or did they get the wrong impressions from some other spacefarers? SO much unknown that would help so much in comprehending motivation and allow for emotional involvement of the story.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
My character Tsin'xing
From what I have seen written, I can't make that call. It still too muddied. At times they seem Xenophobic, then at others they seem just bitter, and at other times they seem gruff but grateful for help. All these mixed signals makes it hard to know what is norm and what is not for them. I guess I am just looking for some background to create some clarity.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I would imagine that those responses are on the fly. They were happy to have our assistance when we were stopping the Tholians, but immediately shifted full blame on to us once it was foolishly stated that the tool that did this was of our manufacture. I would've disavowed the heck out of Kal Dano on the grounds of the Temporal Prime Directive. Anyway, once we failed to resolve the situation they wanted nothing further to do with us. If they were human I would say you never get a second chance to make a first impression. The Na'khul seem to have come to the absolute conclusion at the government level that the Federation is more trouble than it's worth. The conclusion of "time is a weapon" is also a fascinating jump. Especially with no knowledge of the Krenim temporal weapon ship. The Tholians stole a piece of technology and then killed their star with it. The outcome is still more benign than if they had stolen Soran's weapon, and the exact same as if they had succeeded with the Lukari star.
What's normal for them is an interesting question. Generally speaking it's now derided when a species is too monolithic in thought. As this chapter demonstrates the Na'khul have varied opinions on what happened even centuries in the future. It seems that their defining trait at this point...is pride, perhaps with a hint of paranoia. They seem to think that any altruism extended towards them by the Federation is, like with Klingon thinking, an attempt to subvert their autonomy, and "conquer them without firing a shot" as J'mpok would say. The fact that a Federation officer from the future created the artifact that destroyed their sun, and now the Federation (because the Klingons and Romulans don't exist in this) is offering to "help". They seem to be trying to act like they're not stupid enough to fall for it. At the same time, they feel like since we f*cked up their collective lives, that we should also take responsibility. I would imagine they would perhaps be more cooperative if Kal Dano and our captain committed seppuku in front of their leaders as an apology. At the same time, they seem a pragmatic enough people to not care about that as that still wouldn't bring back their sun. I'd hate to see the criminal justice system. I wonder if the phrase mercy of the court even exists in their society.
I wouldn't call them xenophobic, but rather insular. As opposed to the Lukari who seem friendly, open-minded, and gregarious; the Na'khul seem stubborn, narrow minded, and antisocial. As generalizations. Furthermore, their attitude in the future also seems to be of a very dominant type, they don't seem set to simply stop at preserving their world, they want to conquer the other civilizations in order to reorder things so they're never in a position to be attacked again. Which is impossible.
As we have only seen this one family, one government official and a couple of protestors (in the future), I am hard pressed to say that any of these are the norm. Only the family gives me any glimmer of hope that there is some sort of reasonableness to the race as a whole, But as this is a snippet during a particular stressful time, it's hard to judge by that. The rest seem to be alarmist reactions at best. But if that is typical of the race or not is just not portray. Even how the society is structured, and what is considered as core societal values are missing so far. And I would hate to judge the entire race based on the actions of a few, hopefully extremist, individuals.
As for the Lukari, we have seen a little bit of how they operate, but I would still like to know more. There is a lot of unknowns there and we have only really dealt with 2 (apparent) females so far. Hard to judge them too with the little data we have.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Just because its not your critique of whats wrong with the writing doesn't mean its an invalid critique to make. This story was just as focused on the Na'kul family life as it is on their Xenophobia, or else this could all have occurred at the rally. They specifically presented it in the context of thier home setting to present the Na'kul's home culture, which is where I thought it fell flat. Its not off subject its just off of your subject :-) .
As to your comment, I don't think they would really have to explain much of anything. This is an alien species, so all they had to do was be more creative about the setting and dynamic they were already taking time to describe, and the quality of the story goes up even if you don't have a full sociological understanding. I call cheating shenanigans on their using such a bland and familiar dynamic in the family/home to make us essentially write a lot of the contextual details for them in our heads. Its lazy story telling