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Disappointing command ships - flagships comparison
deathray38
Member Posts: 210 Arc User
It's only my, or new "flagships" look inferior to 1 - year old command battleships?
From FED point of view:
Tactical Command vs Tactical Flagship:
TC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Commander Engi
- Can load Dual cannons
TFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- Commander Tactical (vs ltCDR, but there is no captain BFAW...)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
Science Command vs Science Flagship:
SC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Commander Engi
- Can load Dual cannons
- One extra TAC console
SFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- Commander Science (vs ltCdr)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
- Sensor analysis
Enineering Command vs Engineering Flagship:
SC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Can load Dual cannons
SFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
Ships aren't the same, but both classes fill similar role... and I find new ones significantly inferior in important areas, while they get insignificant buffs in not important places (+2000 hull?). I am not going to get any of them for now, bit as Presidio owner I see no reason (including trait/console) to get these new ships for purpose other then nice model. If I were waiting for T6 Oddysey, I would be very dissapointed now. Command ships at release had a lot of "WOW" factors - command BOFF seats (as first non-lockbox class), Inspiration abilities and huge customiazation options (Hangar, Dual cannons...). New Flagships do not have anything like this - all we get is what we (could) have 1 year ago...
From FED point of view:
Tactical Command vs Tactical Flagship:
TC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Commander Engi
- Can load Dual cannons
TFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- Commander Tactical (vs ltCDR, but there is no captain BFAW...)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
Science Command vs Science Flagship:
SC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Commander Engi
- Can load Dual cannons
- One extra TAC console
SFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- Commander Science (vs ltCdr)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
- Sensor analysis
Enineering Command vs Engineering Flagship:
SC:
- Hangar
- Higher inertia (35 vs 30)
- 2 command seats (including captain level one)
- Better turn rate (8 vs 6)
- Set of unique Inspiration abilities
- +10 Weapons/engines
- Can load Dual cannons
SFS:
- 2000 more healh (57000 vs 55000)
- better shield modifier (1.15 vs 1.115)
- Full set of cruiser abilities (TC have only 2... but You can still use only one at time)
- +5 to all power levels
- more universal slots
- more crew
Ships aren't the same, but both classes fill similar role... and I find new ones significantly inferior in important areas, while they get insignificant buffs in not important places (+2000 hull?). I am not going to get any of them for now, bit as Presidio owner I see no reason (including trait/console) to get these new ships for purpose other then nice model. If I were waiting for T6 Oddysey, I would be very dissapointed now. Command ships at release had a lot of "WOW" factors - command BOFF seats (as first non-lockbox class), Inspiration abilities and huge customiazation options (Hangar, Dual cannons...). New Flagships do not have anything like this - all we get is what we (could) have 1 year ago...
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I do however, agree that they lack that 'pop.' There isn't a whole lot outside of the ship appearance options to really set these ships apart. I rank them as 'on par' with the Command Battlecruisers. They're not better, they're not worse.. they're just slightly different.
Personally, I think that the Flagships would have been a good time to introduce a new specialization. I understand that because of the Scimitar, they couldn't be intel ships and I agree with that decision. Pilot also wasn't a sensible option, but more 'big command ships' was the last thing we needed. This would have been a really good time for a new specialization, but sadly they did not go that direction.
Personally I find the whole command palette very underwhelming at best and having more of those seats is pretty pointless, as is it's signature gimmick exclusive to the command bunch.
The next thing that always bothered me about the command ships is the sorely missing weapon efficency command, which all of the odys have.
Basically they're pretty much cut from the same cloths with just some minor differences.
Like the CBCs have a hangar but because they only have access to fighters and shuttles they're pretty much garbage anyways since their lifespan is shorter than that of a redshirt. The ody's have two pets which not only eat a console slot but are beyond any control or influence once they are launched. They are both pretty much boned in that aspect.
Pretty much everything above also goes for the KDF variants.
They're cruisers with minor differences but that's about it and that slight diversety manges to appease to many very different tastes while all being on about equal footing.
Though the rom ships are a whole other story.
Agree 100% with this, especially about the part with scimi not getting an intel seat. That would have been bonkers.
Well... I personally see Flagships (at least Fed) slightly inferior to Command Batlecruisers, in many areas. Everything Flagships offer we have already seen a long (1 year) time ago - and a lot of extra things we already have, are missing on Flagships, for no good reason. Seriously, simple question: What's new are these ships going to offer?
It's a bit of a wash. The Odyssey gets to ditch the hangar bay in favor of the Weapon Systems Efficiency Cruiser Command, that's a trade in the favor of the Odyssey for sure. I run Elite Swarmers on my Presidio and while they're definitely one of the harder hitting pets, I would trade that hangar bay for Efficiency any day of the week. Hangar pets are just in a sad and pathetic place in this game and not worth trading for anything.
The CBC's on the other hand have better traits. The Presidio comes with 'All Hands on Deck' which many people (myself included) feel is the best trait in the game. The Geneva's Improved Tachyon Beam is also a highly under rated trait that has some surprisingly effective functionality. The only trait that really seems to be of any interest (to me) would be the Science Odyssey and even that is not something that will have global appeal. None of them match 'All Hands on Deck.'
The thing that really would have set them apart would be if they were the first with a new specialization. It would create more of a buzz and would set them apart distinctively from the CBC's. To me, it's an opportunity missed. The 'which ship is better' argument between the Oddy and the CBC is going to come down to personal preference and personally, I think it's a toss up. Giving the Flagships something other then Command would have been the thing that would have set them apart.
Instead, their command seating makes them just 'more of the same.'
What I will say is that the Command FDCs have better handling characteristics and the TAC version has a fabulous trait (AHOD).
But that's about it. Because in terms of having the tools to do what a Cruiser can do, I'll take most other Cruisers and Battlecruisers over the Command FDCs or any other FDC any day of the week.
As far as the rest is concerned cryptic has a marketing strategy. They know the flag ships will sell well by themselves. They are not in need to be pushed by extra stuff as in ideal boff layouts, traits or stats.
A simple T5U to T6 transition is enough here and 9 out of 10 STO players will purchase the tier 6 odyssey because it’s the tier 6 odyssey.
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I don't have the spread of year old t5s, so this new pack is kind of simple one big whack to boost my captains in all three factions. Even though most of them will stick to their existing ships, the new ship traits will give me a lot more oomph in those ships.
The Scimi is a brutal cannon boat and can turn on a dime and with the Cmdr Tac seat it can utilize the full array of cannon attacks and even as a beam boat it can instead use APO3 so again as a pure Tactical option the Scimi is the winner when your a Romulan character but that's always been the case.
Feds and Kling characters don't have the option of a raw Tac beast in the same way Rom's do, still viable just not as good.
It will work even better if you put the console sets from T5 flagships on the new T6 flagships.
For Romulans - it's mean: Thalaron Pulse, Shielded Cloak and Cloaked Barrage + 1 hangar, which can be filled with frigate - drone ships
For KDF - thats 1 Bird of Prey pet + autocannon + teleport trap (teleports target in front of you, so you can hit it with all frontal weapons)
Feds have worst of it - Chevron separation and 1 Aquarius Escort pet (but here is problem - only one of them can be active at given time) plus healing pets
The new console set looks actually rather not impressive in comparison - even with the old Fed set.
Lets see - some damage resistence, some radiation damage over time (4-5 km range - almost point blank) and short burst of flight speed and turn ratio. Combined set powers are nice, but nothing speciall.
For me it looks like to get most out of new flagships we will need the console sets from old T5 flagships or some level 14 ultra rare/epic gear....
Edit: Of course there will be some hardcore players, which put both (old+new consoles+lv.14 UR/Epic gear) on them.
1. Officers build something like this:
Commander (Eng/Tac/Sci - specific to class)
LtCdr (Eng/Tac/Sci - specific to class) / Intelligence
LtCdr (Universal) / Command
Lt (Sci/Eng/Tac - different then ship class)
Lt (Tac/Sci/Eng - different then ship class)
[Yes, extra slot is intentional - it is damn flagship!]
2. Equipable dual cannons
3. Hangar (why it is scimmy exclusive? Scimmi already have better weapon config...)
4. 3-4 Unique "Flagship" abilities, like global timed buff to all damage or ability to call special reinforcements.
What we get is "just another common T6 cruiser with nothing unique at all", it is not worth "Flagship" name for any mean.
Well... I was expecting something making Flagships superior and unique (for cost of speed, turn rate etc.). Flagships are actuallu absolutelly common cruisers, IMO overshadowed by both Command ships (in terms of versatility) and T6 battlecruisers (in terms of pure firepower).
I see them UP and not worth "flagship" name. Of course situation is not even close to T6 Tactical Escort vs Pilot Escorts (comparison stupidly favoring PE in nearly every aspect), but still... Flagships are supposed to be superior in some important areas, these "flagships" lack both power AND fun. Just another boring common cruisers with nothing special inside...
Indeed. T6 Scimitar will easily sell because.... T6 Scimitar. The Odyssey even before T6 & DR came out had a rather large following. The Flagship release is a money printer.
What you expected was unrealistic.
It's no wonder you were disappointed with the actual result.
What does this have to do with the Scimitar. It is to be Flag ship is something new ?? This is another Battlecrusier but not Dreadnought or Flagship. Embarrassing parcel off anything.
For now - we shall wait - and in future we will get T7 - a 15-console ships
Also, for another bonus for the Presidio, it has a better Starship Mastery (+15% Crit Severity), verses Hull Regen (which is utterly useless).
As a Presidio owner, I just can't find a reason to pick up the T6 Flagship pack, despite wanting to.
The more crew for the T6 Flagships are actually a negative due to the (extremely poorly designed) Crew mechanic, where getting hit removes % of your max crew, but they regen based on raw numbers. So a larger crew 'dies' much much faster than it regens. Then again, Crew does basically nothing in the end.
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You keep waiting in your bomb shelter for that eventual nuclear strike.
These "Flagships" are classes for STF/KDF/ROM current FLAGSHIP which means that they have to perform (by design) ale quite a chunk of representative and diplomatic work
Meanwhile Command Battlecruisers are combat optimised first line command centers - you see de difference?
PS. but then I'd gladly trade off one frontal weapon mount and one aft on science flagship for a secondary deflector slot..... :P
So that's something.
-3rd Commmandment of Chivalry
The engineering powers are never great once you get to Cmdr level but access to another tree gives you a few nice options (eg: concentrate firepower)
I like the ship models but I can't see the new flagships doing anything my command ships can't already do. For me they just don't stand out enough or do anything that can't be done elsewhere.