So all the people thinking because there's no mac client, all the bugs into the windows version will now get fixed are going to get a big disappointment. As far as Cryptic are concerned, they're one and the same.
I was going to mention this, as there seems to be some delusion that when they get rid of the Mac users, the game will improve. Well, the problem is I know PC users who play this game and there were problems for them, even before PWE/ArcGames made a Mac client. Yet, my PC friends have complained about the bugs and even complain about the lack of support. With that said, my Mac Client was pretty damn stable, prior to the last run of these recent "event" updates. I mean, I still had to force quit the game launcher, but overall, I could play for hours and hours with not a single problem. Yet, back in the day when I was playing STO using a Wine, the PC users still experienced problems. In fact, those problem they're experience are inherently going to be a problem with Cider and Wine. So, there is that.
I just want certain things to happen. I want my refund and it would be nice to have get back on with decent Wine version.
The problem is that then it'll look like Wine is supported, and when it breaks, there'll be a lot of complaints.
You could say that, but, that's not really the case. Any new Mac user would have to go to a Wine provider to get a version that has it ready to use and they would already know what they're signing up for. Any current Mac user would have to go to the same place. To illustrate what I mean. Back at that time, when I went to play STO, I downloaded a Wine version created by a third party and never had a complaint to either party. Besides, who's to say they couldn't have done with anonymity.
So I installed arc on my PC and got STO going and during the load I get an error message that something broke. Then I get a program not responding message and the same broken error. Can't play the game on mac or PC... that's great. Really. No wonder the last messages I've posted asking about updates and reporting issues have been ignored.
I normally don't gripe about stuff but really man... Its not like I've never payed for anything before, and everything I've tried is just another slap in the face of something else broken. This is beyond suckville.
So I installed arc on my PC and got STO going and during the load I get an error message that something broke. Then I get a program not responding message and the same broken error. Can't play the game on mac or PC... that's great. Really. No wonder the last messages I've posted asking about updates and reporting issues have been ignored.
I normally don't gripe about stuff but really man... Its not like I've never payed for anything before, and everything I've tried is just another slap in the face of something else broken. This is beyond suckville.
And that is why i have decided not to put pursue the Windows option for my iMac anymore. I don't want to open up my hardware to the wear and tear that Windows will cause and all problems that come with Windows. Plus the game doesn't appear to run any better on Windows than it does on a Mac.
Windows software appears to be far more sensitive when things crash. File corruption ect. I will play with Wine for as long as i can. Fiddle around with key binds and once that stops working then thats me finished with the game.
I think all us mac users need to do two things: accept that this is what can happen when you pour money into a game. And 2, move on to better pastures. Lets face it, the engine and graphics of this game are ancient compared to today's standards. The player base is very very small. So small that it relies on players constantly spending money just to stay afloat.
This game is the equivalent of a 75 yr old with cancer.
And for the people who think that getting rid of the mac players will make the pc version better? nope. The mac players base was TINY. So 3/4 or more of the resources were already being poured into the windows version and look how crappy is STILL is. Mac player departure won't really affect the way this game is faltering.
It just sucks that I can't get my REAL money back. But whatever.
bottomline, this game is like the member of the family that all the other games look down on. its old. outdated. subpar software. constantly being ddos'd. botched payments left and right.
I'm actually glad to have gotten out. This is not a ship I want to go down with.
After reading some of these posts, I'll say that I am GLAD these people are being cut off from the game. Please never come back!
Humm... i wonder what type of uproar and posts you'd see if it were the windows version being closed ?.
No doubt exactly the same. Worse even
Every person that has posted any critical, damming, and unfavourable posts towards this news or Cryptic has every right to voice their disapproval, frustration and even disgust at this decision. They have supported the game but are having their support pulled.
Its a natural reaction to this type of news, but what i find most disturbing is some of the arrogance and lack of empathy and caring shown by our fellow PC Players that aren't affected by this decision. Rather than band together and support those effected you get snide remarks about Macs, or good bout time they removed it ect. Whether you are using a Mac or PC to play this game you are a customer and a player, removing part of the player base however big or small, does have a impact to those still able to play. Mac or PC ? when it comes to playing and financing this game we were all in it together.
So rather than be GLAD a percentage of the player base is going, i'd be more concerned that the player base may be shrinking and thats where the impact and knock on effect comes from.
Cryptic are hoping that due to the versatility of the MAC OS where Wine, Bootcamp, PlayonMac and other emulators are available, MAC users continue playing via these routes.
Trust me now that if this were solely a MAC game and Windows was the Mac client, no way would the Windows client be closed as Windows doesn't have this versatility as far as i know.
If the Windows version was closing, it would be because the game servers themselves were about to be shut down. Your comparison is invalid.
So judging by your response you're not able to put the shoe on the other foot, and think how would I feel if my access to the game we're being removed. (that's if you are a PC user). It was hyperthetical about what if the windows platform were the MAC and MAC platform were Windows and how windows doesn't have the back door software flexibility of a MAC and asks the question would it be shutdown and are cryptic gambling that MAC users will use these backdoor programmes so they still keep those players. What if MAC did not have these backdoors. Would cryptic still close the launcher.
Windows PCs can dual-boot "Hackintosh" and run VMWare, Virtualbox. If OS X had >90% of the desktop market, we'd have MINE instead of WINE. So that part of the hypothetical doesn't work.
But yes, as a Windows player I'd feel bad if I couldn't make any of that work and had to stop playing STO.
Windows PCs can dual-boot "Hackintosh" and run VMWare, Virtualbox. If OS X had >90% of the desktop market, we'd have MINE instead of WINE. So that part of the hypothetical doesn't work.
But yes, as a Windows player I'd feel bad if I couldn't make any of that work and had to stop playing STO.
This. I know of very few (okay, truth be told, I don't know any, but I'm guessing even that has to exist) games that are available only on OS X. I know of plenty that are either cross-platform or Windows-only, and that is a much more viable approach than Mac-only.
I do agree that it is a bad situation, but even without the various means a Mac user has at his disposal to keep playing the game, this is the only viable 'shutdown' short of shutting down the game itself. It's not about flexibility, it's not about hoping the playerbase will just find a workaround. What it is, is a plain, simple business decision - to seal what PW considers an open wound in its profit margin.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Reply from support regarding closure of the MAC client. I guess i should have said instead of "i didn't want the account cancelled", i should have said "i want to opt out of a LTS reimbursement"
So anyone contacting Support be SPECIFIC in what you ask for.
Response Retribution via Email 02/08/2016 10:47 AM
Hello,
Thank you for your inquiry on the closure of STO Mac. While the Lifetime Subscription will be removed from your account, the rest of your account will remain untouched. However, if you still wish to play STO, you can opt out of the reimbursement and no actions will be made to your account.
Regards,
Retribution
Specialist Game Master
Perfect World Entertainment http://support.arcgames.com/
Customer via CSS Web 02/04/2016 02:56 PM
Hi i have a Life time subscription on this account and am concerned about the account possibly being cancelled with the discontinuation of the MAC client. I am currently unable to use windows bootcamp due to driver issues. But do not want this acc cancelled. Far to much playtime put into it for it to be cancelled. Thanks. I'll have to look for some other workaround to be able to continue playing Star Trek Online
So is that only for those who bought lifetime since October 2015? I got mine waaaaay before that, so obviously not going to be due any reimbursement... will they still cancel my lifetime subscription though?
So is that only for those who bought lifetime since October 2015? I got mine waaaaay before that, so obviously not going to be due any reimbursement... will they still cancel my lifetime subscription though?
my lts was bought several years ago. so is way before Oct 2015. But i think its best to tell support directly so there's no misunderstandings not to remove it and reimburse unless thats what you want.
I don't know how Cryptic/PWE will handle refunds or what the criteria is determining who is entitled ect. All i do know is they will have a Process in place to handle it as all companies do.
That Process doesn't know you, it won't know what you want.
So my advice is rather than be handled by a Process that is set to deal with all accounts without bias or thought to what the holder may want, lend a face and voice to your account and let them know what you want so you aren't handled by the Process and later having to chase CS to reactivate/correct anything.
This is good news. There's no need to support an over priced and inferior platform that virtually no one uses.
Not helpful. They are dropping OS X because the number of STO players using it is too small. That says nothing about the quality of the Mac OS or hardware.
I don't know how Cryptic/PWE will handle refunds or what the criteria is determining who is entitled ect. All i do know is they will have a Process in place to handle it as all companies do.
That Process doesn't know you, it won't know what you want.
So my advice is rather than be handled by a Process that is set to deal with all accounts without bias or thought to what the holder may want, lend a face and voice to your account and let them know what you want so you aren't handled by the Process and later having to chase CS to reactivate/correct anything.
This is what gets me. The game is still workable if you get a newer computer or different one. Or get a new way to gain access with your current one. Why the refund if you can still get on later on? I can see if your a life subscription, that may be an issue as it may take a while for you to come back on. To me it should be refund unless the customer asks for it since their gaming was cut off. And they not keeping the product up to standards to enjoy. That I can see. However I know many Mac users will end up finding a way to play it one way or another. And still enjoy their Mac computers to play.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Here's some food-for-thought: Mac would be a great operating system overall if it wasn't for Steve Job's paranoia and forcing the platform on hardware that is proprietary and subpar. It's a shame that this has to be done, but with everything being so severely closed-source I can understand the move behind it.
That's quite an arrogant statement. Apple's laptops/desktops are using Intel CPU, including iCore, mCore and Xeon. Video cards are either Intel or nVidia. Not exactly "proprietary" or "subpar" hardware considering it's the same as what's in your system.
OS X is Linux/Unix based. This is more than likely due to the company not wanting to expand into OS X any longer, despite the hardware being more popular today than it was when they first introduced systems with an Intel CPU.
I hadn't tried yet, but its worth looking into. As Bootcamp cost $ to get. Then you have to set it up. Once I get my new IMac, I will look at Wine as well as an alternative. If not I will get Bootcamp, and have them set it up for me. Or get someone to help. I just emailed my IT go to person on this. To see what he says. He really knows his Mac stuff.
BootCamp is free and is included in every OS since 10.6. It's pre-installed. It's not that difficult to do, actually pretty much idiot proof, just have to launch it and it'll tell you what you need to do.
You can't get a much bigger franchise than the Batman series, and even they couldn't manage to make it work. It's not a simple matter, at all. Not impossible, certainly, but a very significant technological and developmental challenge.
I'm disappointed my daughter won't be able to easily join me in STO from her Mac, but I applaud the efforts of those Cryptic devs who busted their backsides trying and the management who had to make a tough call. Hopefully, the bottom line for the game itself will be more focus and developer time on the rest of the game. I would venture that this is regrettable news for the Mac STO community, but good news for the game.
Roll on STO year seven.
It's not really as difficult as you think it is. Companies are cutting back and depending on what platform the game is written on, it may not be cost effective to have two groups dealing with two/three platforms.
If the Windows version was closing, it would be because the game servers themselves were about to be shut down. Your comparison is invalid.
Your assumption that they are using a full Windows based server farm is invalid. While they may be running some Windows based servers, chances are most are using some flavour of Linux.
Comments
I was going to mention this, as there seems to be some delusion that when they get rid of the Mac users, the game will improve. Well, the problem is I know PC users who play this game and there were problems for them, even before PWE/ArcGames made a Mac client. Yet, my PC friends have complained about the bugs and even complain about the lack of support. With that said, my Mac Client was pretty damn stable, prior to the last run of these recent "event" updates. I mean, I still had to force quit the game launcher, but overall, I could play for hours and hours with not a single problem. Yet, back in the day when I was playing STO using a Wine, the PC users still experienced problems. In fact, those problem they're experience are inherently going to be a problem with Cider and Wine. So, there is that.
I just want certain things to happen. I want my refund and it would be nice to have get back on with decent Wine version.
You could say that, but, that's not really the case. Any new Mac user would have to go to a Wine provider to get a version that has it ready to use and they would already know what they're signing up for. Any current Mac user would have to go to the same place. To illustrate what I mean. Back at that time, when I went to play STO, I downloaded a Wine version created by a third party and never had a complaint to either party. Besides, who's to say they couldn't have done with anonymity.
I normally don't gripe about stuff but really man... Its not like I've never payed for anything before, and everything I've tried is just another slap in the face of something else broken. This is beyond suckville.
And that is why i have decided not to put pursue the Windows option for my iMac anymore. I don't want to open up my hardware to the wear and tear that Windows will cause and all problems that come with Windows. Plus the game doesn't appear to run any better on Windows than it does on a Mac.
Windows software appears to be far more sensitive when things crash. File corruption ect. I will play with Wine for as long as i can. Fiddle around with key binds and once that stops working then thats me finished with the game.
This game is the equivalent of a 75 yr old with cancer.
And for the people who think that getting rid of the mac players will make the pc version better? nope. The mac players base was TINY. So 3/4 or more of the resources were already being poured into the windows version and look how crappy is STILL is. Mac player departure won't really affect the way this game is faltering.
It just sucks that I can't get my REAL money back. But whatever.
bottomline, this game is like the member of the family that all the other games look down on. its old. outdated. subpar software. constantly being ddos'd. botched payments left and right.
I'm actually glad to have gotten out. This is not a ship I want to go down with.
Humm... i wonder what type of uproar and posts you'd see if it were the windows version being closed ?.
No doubt exactly the same. Worse even
Every person that has posted any critical, damming, and unfavourable posts towards this news or Cryptic has every right to voice their disapproval, frustration and even disgust at this decision. They have supported the game but are having their support pulled.
Its a natural reaction to this type of news, but what i find most disturbing is some of the arrogance and lack of empathy and caring shown by our fellow PC Players that aren't affected by this decision. Rather than band together and support those effected you get snide remarks about Macs, or good bout time they removed it ect. Whether you are using a Mac or PC to play this game you are a customer and a player, removing part of the player base however big or small, does have a impact to those still able to play. Mac or PC ? when it comes to playing and financing this game we were all in it together.
So rather than be GLAD a percentage of the player base is going, i'd be more concerned that the player base may be shrinking and thats where the impact and knock on effect comes from.
Cryptic are hoping that due to the versatility of the MAC OS where Wine, Bootcamp, PlayonMac and other emulators are available, MAC users continue playing via these routes.
Trust me now that if this were solely a MAC game and Windows was the Mac client, no way would the Windows client be closed as Windows doesn't have this versatility as far as i know.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
So judging by your response you're not able to put the shoe on the other foot, and think how would I feel if my access to the game we're being removed. (that's if you are a PC user). It was hyperthetical about what if the windows platform were the MAC and MAC platform were Windows and how windows doesn't have the back door software flexibility of a MAC and asks the question would it be shutdown and are cryptic gambling that MAC users will use these backdoor programmes so they still keep those players. What if MAC did not have these backdoors. Would cryptic still close the launcher.
But yes, as a Windows player I'd feel bad if I couldn't make any of that work and had to stop playing STO.
This. I know of very few (okay, truth be told, I don't know any, but I'm guessing even that has to exist) games that are available only on OS X. I know of plenty that are either cross-platform or Windows-only, and that is a much more viable approach than Mac-only.
I do agree that it is a bad situation, but even without the various means a Mac user has at his disposal to keep playing the game, this is the only viable 'shutdown' short of shutting down the game itself. It's not about flexibility, it's not about hoping the playerbase will just find a workaround. What it is, is a plain, simple business decision - to seal what PW considers an open wound in its profit margin.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
That's a very good question. @trailturtle, @pwelaughingtrendy, anyone?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Reply from support regarding closure of the MAC client. I guess i should have said instead of "i didn't want the account cancelled", i should have said "i want to opt out of a LTS reimbursement"
So anyone contacting Support be SPECIFIC in what you ask for.
Response Retribution via Email 02/08/2016 10:47 AM
Hello,
Thank you for your inquiry on the closure of STO Mac. While the Lifetime Subscription will be removed from your account, the rest of your account will remain untouched. However, if you still wish to play STO, you can opt out of the reimbursement and no actions will be made to your account.
Regards,
Retribution
Specialist Game Master
Perfect World Entertainment
http://support.arcgames.com/
Customer via CSS Web 02/04/2016 02:56 PM
Hi i have a Life time subscription on this account and am concerned about the account possibly being cancelled with the discontinuation of the MAC client. I am currently unable to use windows bootcamp due to driver issues. But do not want this acc cancelled. Far to much playtime put into it for it to be cancelled. Thanks. I'll have to look for some other workaround to be able to continue playing Star Trek Online
my lts was bought several years ago. so is way before Oct 2015. But i think its best to tell support directly so there's no misunderstandings not to remove it and reimburse unless thats what you want.
Wondering if this might now exclude my account as I've now effectively logged in from windows?
I don't know how Cryptic/PWE will handle refunds or what the criteria is determining who is entitled ect. All i do know is they will have a Process in place to handle it as all companies do.
That Process doesn't know you, it won't know what you want.
So my advice is rather than be handled by a Process that is set to deal with all accounts without bias or thought to what the holder may want, lend a face and voice to your account and let them know what you want so you aren't handled by the Process and later having to chase CS to reactivate/correct anything.
Not helpful. They are dropping OS X because the number of STO players using it is too small. That says nothing about the quality of the Mac OS or hardware.
The hate is strong with this one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The hate is strong with this one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This is what gets me. The game is still workable if you get a newer computer or different one. Or get a new way to gain access with your current one. Why the refund if you can still get on later on? I can see if your a life subscription, that may be an issue as it may take a while for you to come back on. To me it should be refund unless the customer asks for it since their gaming was cut off. And they not keeping the product up to standards to enjoy. That I can see. However I know many Mac users will end up finding a way to play it one way or another. And still enjoy their Mac computers to play.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
That's quite an arrogant statement. Apple's laptops/desktops are using Intel CPU, including iCore, mCore and Xeon. Video cards are either Intel or nVidia. Not exactly "proprietary" or "subpar" hardware considering it's the same as what's in your system.
OS X is Linux/Unix based. This is more than likely due to the company not wanting to expand into OS X any longer, despite the hardware being more popular today than it was when they first introduced systems with an Intel CPU.
BootCamp is free and is included in every OS since 10.6. It's pre-installed. It's not that difficult to do, actually pretty much idiot proof, just have to launch it and it'll tell you what you need to do.
It's not really as difficult as you think it is. Companies are cutting back and depending on what platform the game is written on, it may not be cost effective to have two groups dealing with two/three platforms.
Your assumption that they are using a full Windows based server farm is invalid. While they may be running some Windows based servers, chances are most are using some flavour of Linux.