Researching Speed Formula

sohtoh

I have been trying to figure out the speed formula.

Things I have found out so far.

1. The Tier Mod is gone
2. The Impulse Mod alters how much more speed you receive per power level.
3. Your ship type affects how much speed you see on your impulse engine; with Cruisers and Science Vessels seeing 75% of what an Escort would see.
4. Starship Impulse Thrusters also affects the FSpd shown on the engine.
5. Engine rarity plays no factor in Flight Speed, unless of course, that engine has a Spd mod.

I am currently having trouble progressing in my research though. I am missing one engine from being able to gather the data. I have all Mk versions for the (regular) Impulse Engines (including the Standard Issue) and Hyper-Impulse Engines; but I am still missing a Mk I Combat Impulse Engine. For the last week I have been running a low level character hoping to get one as a drop, but no luck so far. None have been listed on the exchange without the Spd mod (or Turn mod, I am hoping to figure out the new Turn formula as well) and sadly no vendors sell them.

If anyone happens to have one available I would greatly appreciate it.

dabelgrave

sohtoh wrote: »

I am still missing a Mk I Combat Impulse Engine.

If you get mk II, III, and IV, and compare to the differences in the standard and hyper ones, you should be able to extrapolate.​​

sohtoh

dabelgrave wrote: »

sohtoh wrote: »

I am still missing a Mk I Combat Impulse Engine.

If you get mk II, III, and IV, and compare to the differences in the standard and hyper ones, you should be able to extrapolate.​​

While I prefer not to, for accuracy of data, that is what I am going to have to do.

sohtoh

Looks like I don't have to extrapolate, someone put a Mk I on the exchange last night.

dabelgrave

Great! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I started to spreadsheet it once, but it seems I never actually finished.
​​

odinforever20000

Maybe when your done we can add it to the wiki..

sohtoh

We'll see, it depends if I am smart enough to figure it out. A version of my formula for calculating the power boost from EPtX made to the wiki, but someone had further expanded the BOff power (1, 2, 3) times x, where I just used the 15, 20, and 25.

But as an update of progress, I see how the speed traits fit in, though Advanced Engines has an anomaly where it for some reason grants an additional speed bonus on top of what is expected and only after 65 Engine Power. Will have to do more analysis to see if I can figure that out.

sohtoh

I figured out what was going on with Advanced Engines. Not sure if it is intentional or not. The Speed bonus increase is not triggered by engine power, it is triggered by time. The Speed bonus increases over time until it reaches a maximum of 33% from the listed 25%. The time it takes to reach the maximum is not consistent either. Without any engines equipped it took 8 minutes to hit 33%, with Mk I Impulse Engines it took 7.5 minutes, and the Mk XII Impulse Engines took 6.5 minutes.

Edit: I should note that the turn bonus of 25% is constant and does not telescope as the Speed bonus does.

adamkafei

I know it would cost a considerable amount of money (sadly all testing does) but have you compared Mk 12s to Mk 14s with identical mods in this regard? Given the diminishing returns on everything else, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of system here.

sohtoh

adamkafei wrote: »

I know it would cost a considerable amount of money (sadly all testing does) but have you compared Mk 12s to Mk 14s with identical mods in this regard? Given the diminishing returns on everything else, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of system here.

I am doing my testing on Tribble, so once I get the basics down with Mk I through XII, I will be taking advantage of the free ECs and Dilithium there to upgrade the Mk XII engines to Mk XIII and Mk XIV.

adamkafei

Good point, I had forgotten about Tribble.

sohtoh

I have recopied my one character over to tribble a couple of times this morning. He had Mk XIIs of the different impulse engines and about 9 of the Enhanced Upgrades that I forgot I had. I upgraded one copy to Mk XIII and the other to Mk XIV. There is already a noticeable difference.

From Mk I to Mk XII, there is about increase to Flight Speed of about roughly four. Mk XIII has an increase of about 1.5 and Mk XIV has an increase of 1.6. That is, of course, on the ground and having an escort as my ship.

sohtoh

I believe I have the basics figured out, just have to nail down how the skill levels from Starship Impulse Thrusters interacts with what I have found so far. I am taking the day off from working it.

sohtoh

A fly in the ointment, a wrench in the works, a boot to the head.

sohtoh

Figured out the problem I encountered. I was using a T6 Advanced Heavy Cruiser for part of the researching. It was giving results that were different than expected, including its T3 and T5 predecessors. I swapped it out for the T6 Guardian, and it fell into place where I expected it to.

The T6 Advanced Heavy Cruiser was adding a point of power here and there for no apparent reason. I had the Engine power set for 20/15, but it would bump up to 21 for some reason. I double checked the other power levels I used, and while it doesn't add the extra point of Engine Power every single time, it did it enough to mess up the numbers.

I have discovered something interesting though with the Light Cruiser and the TOS Constitution. The Impulse Modifier for both is listed as 0.2, but the math says it is 0.15 like most other cruisers. Also, the 11.4 turn rate (from the wiki) and the for the TOS Constitution is not supported by the math, it is actually 10.2 which is closer to 10 turn rate listed in-game.

I am currently comparing Tier vs Tier and Mark vs Mark, hopefully I will have this completed in a week.

adamkafei

How do you achieve 20/15 at T6? I admit I've never done a blank spec but with all the accolades you can't avoid getting before lvl 50, it seems difficult to me... As far as that ship goes, I think the ship's console might have an inherent boost to power levels, if only a small one. Or maybe it's a warp core thing, although this is all just idle speculation as I know nothing of the builds used for you tests.

On a final note, keep up the good work, I'm certainly interested in seeing the results.

sohtoh

adamkafei wrote: »

How do you achieve 20/15 at T6? I admit I've never done a blank spec but with all the accolades you can't avoid getting before lvl 50, it seems difficult to me... As far as that ship goes, I think the ship's console might have an inherent boost to power levels, if only a small one. Or maybe it's a warp core thing, although this is all just idle speculation as I know nothing of the builds used for you tests.

On a final note, keep up the good work, I'm certainly interested in seeing the results.

I just respeced the character out of Warp Core Potential, Warp Core Efficency, Impulse Thrusters, and Engine Performance. The toon I am using has 12 respecs available, never used one on him, so he is the perfect candidate to facilite the research. The only gear on the ships I am using are the various Impulse Engines that I am using for the research, 78 of them. I didn't have anything else equipped, trait slotted, or specialization active that could have such an effect. While I did equip an RCS Accelerator, Neutronium (+Turn), and Tachyokinetic Converter to see how they each interacted with the numbers; but that was something I had done earlier in testing and not since.

adamkafei

I see. I didn't think there were 78 engines in the game... Although I suppose with all the possible mod combinations there are going to be hundreds... Wow... I can't think of a reason though for the T6 Excel power boost though unless there's a boost to core efficiency that's not mentioned anywhere but that's a whole 'nother line of testing.

sohtoh

My mistake, it was 107 different engines originally. 12 common impulse (Mk I to XII), 12 common Hyper, 12 common Combat, 12 impulse [spd], 12 hyper [spd], 12 combat speed, 11 impulse [turn], 12 hyper [turn], 11 combat [turn], and one standard issue.

One of the first things I found out was that the Turn mod is set and was not affected by skill training, mark level, engine type, or ship type. So after I got that figured out, no more testing with Turn mod engines. Down to 73 engines. Next was the Speed mod. Again, it was not affected by anything either. Down to 37 engines. Then added 6 more, common Mk XIII and Mk XIV versions of impulse, combat and hyper.

With the numbers I got from last night, it looks like I may be able to go from using 6 tiers of escorts and 6 tiers of cruisers to 3 tiers of escorts and 3 tiers of cruisers. I was also using 6 tiers of science vessels, but found they were essentially cruisers in terms of speed. Will do more data gathering at the next skill level before I do that though, just to be sure.

mustrumridcully0

Dumb question perhaps, but since you mentioned respecs: Are you also using Tribble? PArticular for build-specific things you can go there. If you need specific items, holodeck is certainly better, but you can transfer the character there. Particularly useful if you have an account bank available, since then you can transfer things to test characters and delete any superflous one. (Also a good way to test lobi related stuff.)

sohtoh

Actually that is what I am doing.

postinggum

Whatever the formula is doing the number being displayed is odd. A rom sci pilot ship with mk 14 sol engine dead still in kobali system is showing in rounded numbers speed 45, go to full throttle and it drops to 36, full impulse 260, thats all with engine power at just 49. The improved armour penetration for subwarp sheath seems to respond in a sensible way - so I'd be pretty careful in trying to measure the dependant variable in a speed forumla.

sohtoh

I have the Speed Formula down to a 99.68% accuracy rate. I'm not ready to post it yet. I want to wait until I have the Turn Formula finished as well.

mustrumridcully0

Isn't there a Wiki Editing contest right now? Maybe you can put your findings there, too.

sohtoh

Scratch my last post about the Speed Formula. Encountering problems with integrating the Speed Mods.

sohtoh

Back to formula
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VcTzMM0fwZo

innuwarrior

Out of topic but I have to ask, the quote is from Sheridan in Babylon 5, ain't it?

On topic keep up the good work

sohtoh

innuwarrior wrote: »

Out of topic but I have to ask, the quote is from Sheridan in Babylon 5, ain't it?

On topic keep up the good work

Garibaldi actually, but he was saying it it Sheridan.

However, considering the recently announced Skill System Revamp, I will be stopping until after it goes live. Whatever formula I would come up with would be rendered useless afterwards.