So what is the outcome here, do we love the smell of napalm in the morning or do we hate it?
Judges please!!
I can think of a few instances where the former would be acceptable ....
However steering the thread back to the issue at hand, I think part of the wider problem is that in certain quarters (and not just in these forums), whenever the question of how to improve builds or dps or whatever is raised, invariably the words fleet console or fleet gear appear in the solution offered.
Which leads on to the point that when many "newbies" are recruited to Fleets they are generally unaware that this magical fleet gear is not readily available and that they need to contribute to the fleet to earn the credit to buy the gear and so on. This usually happens because the recruiter doesn't explain the system and just lures them in with the promise of cookies. Invariably those who can explain are never around and when they do try to make contact with the recruit they are ignored.
Perhaps a small tutorial on completion of the training cruise would be enough to start the education of players into the reality that to get anything out of a fleet you need to take part. This would at least warn them that the holy grail of that embassy or research lab console may be no nearer than a month or so away and that the Ferengi in the warehouse needs his cut of the shiny purple stuff.
I understand completely why someone would be reluctant to contribute Dilithium to Fleet Projects. The payoff for doing so is far in the future usually. There are plenty of good alternatives to the magic people think is Fleet gear. A new(er) player has to make a choice between contributing to the Greater Good (In Tau, we are strong! Ooops! Wrong game. Sorry, lol) or improving her own character(s).
I do not want my new Fleet members who are also new STO players riding around in their intial issue ship equipped with all white gear while the Projects get filled as quickly as possible. Makes the game not fun for them and then they stop playing. Which is bad for all of us who play STO.
I am the Executive Officer of a smallish KDF Fleet. Because I have been playing this game for a very long time, I have access to knowledge and resources a new(er) player may not. I do try to share this knowledge at every opportunity. Helping a newbie enjoy STO more is enjoyable for me. While I do not discourage someone new to the Fleet from contributing Dilithium to Fleet Projects, I generally do not expect them to do so.
The way we see it, dropping Dil on Fleet Projects is the job of our Fleet leadership and Fleet members with seniority, not the new guy who just started playing STO last week. If she wants to contribute, great! If she does not or, more often the case, cannot, it is okay. Those of us with resources new(er) players do not have can easily take up the slack. The world as we know it will not end because a Fleet Project is not closed out before it is even slotted.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Agreed. But even an experienced player starting a new char or returning to the game after an absence is going to be in for a bit of 'sticker shock'. Prices on the Exchange for good gear are very much higher than they were when I started playing. T6 ships are US $30.00. The Zen to Dilithium ratio is swinging strongly towards Zen again. It may even reach the point it was when I started playing STO. Which was 1:350. All of these encourage people to be a little more discretionary about where they use their Dilithium. On the positive side, however, dilithium is much more readily available all throughout the game. So if someone does top off a project to get the clock started, they will not have nearly as difficult a time replacing the Dilthium they donate.
BTW, nice to know there are others out there who help out the New Guys. They may not say it. So let me say to you for them.
Thank you, coldnapalm. Much appreciated. Please pass my thanks along to your Fleet mates as well.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
The main reason why I don't donate Dil to fleet projects. Is the conversion of Fleet marks from it. It really is bad, and you don't get marks to justify it. I can turn in odd stuff and get way more marks. Some items are costly in marks, so I'm looking at a high return rate to get those items. And doing it with Dil is not the way to do it.
Since the Dil to zen exchange is too expensive. I just use my dil for upgrades.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This is why the dil exchange needs to get closer to 500 to 1. This would help grease the wheels for donating to fleet and armada projects.
This won't work for most players. I stopped after it went past 150. Many other players are doing the same. So how will this help when majority of the players stopped doing the exchange. Cause it got priced out of reach. The rate can go to million Dil per 1 zen. I won't care one bit cause I'm not doing the exchange. Now its just cheaper for me to buy the zen with $ and then get my items. Removing the exchange completely out of the market. This is called by passing the middle man and going to the factory.
Post edited by farmallm on
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
BTW, nice to know there are others out there who help out the New Guys. They may not say it. So let me say to you for them.
Thank you, coldnapalm. Much appreciated. Please pass my thanks along to your Fleet mates as well.
I would like to echo this and also to extend an invitation to any Fleet Leader or member who are will to help others within the game. Our Fleet(s) are currently rebuilding our website and will have the ability to add extra pages alongside our forum which we plan to use to provide an "academy" type area to provide information on as much aspects of gameplay as we can including a Fleet tutorial area to tell members things such as how to convert cxp to fleet marks, where facilities within the fleet holdings are etc. The first few pages should go live within a week or so (once I manage to sort out a display bug for some browsers!) and the invite is simply that your members can register on the site as "allies" and access the information. Further to this if any smaller fleets do not have access to their own forum then we would be willing to help by setting up a private area within the boards for them - all we ask is that they provide a sensible person to act as admin for this area.
Anyone who is interested is welcome to PM me for details.
IMO the solution here is relatively simple- PWE/Cryptic can just simply allow unrefined dilithium donations to Fleet projects- that way it doesn't touch the player "allowance" and I'll bet you'll see a lot more donations.
Because there's a daily restriction for refining- people are going to be quite reluctant in general when they have to decide on character development versus fleet projects.
Don't hate the player- hate the game.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
So I know this is an old problem that must have been discussed before but I'm doing again.
So everyone now knows getting fleet mates to donate dilithium is like pulling teeth. Why? Because the rarest and most expensive currency in the game rewards jacksh*t for your hard work!!! I mean seriously!
Cryptic dev's, please do us all a huge favor and bump the exchange rate to 1:2 or better yet 1:3, you really need to do this for all our sakes. Maybe it'll actually be the dilithium sink it is meant to be instead of people like me having the drop $50 to finish a holding!
Filling up dilithium for fleet projects can suck, and it can suck royally. I'm certainly not against raising the FC payout for dilithium.
With that said it's not that difficult to get dilithium in game. if you have the average of around 3 toons, you can pull in 24k refined dilithium per day. In the span of a week that's 168k. I find it rather pitiful that out of that people can't be bothered to dontate even 1k of that per day, or even do 16k out of that once a week. In the grand scheme of things it's not that great. spending about 15 minutes in the dyson battlezone on a toon isn't that hard. people can get dilithium, it's just a matter of are they going to or not. call that elitist if you will but it's the honest truth. You don't have to dump cash to finish things, it's a matter of resource management.
I get it that people have their personal gear to worry about as well. Honestly though the little bit that I'm talking about won't make or break you and if it does, then there's more issues than one's resource management ability.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
While I think raising the FC payout for dilithium is also a good idea, and I agree with the general premise of your argument, I don't think it would alone resolve the problem.
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that the players control their own resources and whether they wish to donate is their decision alone. If you want them to donate- you need to provide incentive for them to do so. People aren't going to work for very little reward or return, anymore than an investment banker is just going to give you money because you ask nicely.
There are a lot of other variables to consider when it comes to balancing resources in this game, such as an ever-changing meta, game changes in general, and available time people have to play. Not everyone is "space rich" or even "RL rich" and can afford to drop $100 a week on Zen to offset their Dilithium donations to fleet, either. Not everyone lives in their parent's basement sucking down energy drinks and eating junk food- lots if not most people actually have RL responsibilities and their time to grind Zen/Dilithium or EC is limited to such. Personally- I donate what I can, when I can, but I don't speak for everyone else.
Combining the FC payout rewards and perhaps even allowing unrefined dilithium to be spent on Fleet projects would do wonders for donations, IMO. After all, how could such a change really imbalance anything else, considering there's a daily refining limit?
Oh and by the way... as the age old adage goes, you'll catch more flies with honey than you will vinegar. Something to consider when it comes to judgmental attitude toward other players and incentive.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I've suggested giving unrefined dilithium uses before and was unnceremoniously shot down by the community, how ironic to see people supporting that very same idea now.
I've suggested giving unrefined dilithium uses before and was unnceremoniously shot down by the community, how ironic to see people supporting that very same idea now.
Those who participated on the forums at that time may have shot it down, but I don't think that's the entire community.
Mob rules mentality doesn't mean "right", it simply means majority opinion.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Since the main issue is regarding dil donations to fleets, perhaps replacing the dilithium requirement with a voucher requirement where each voucher is for a random arbitary amount. The vouchers could be rewarded for completion of PvE queues etc and could have some refined dil redemption value for non Fleet players perhaps at 5% of face value.
The general idea could also be expanded to those materials and consumables which players seem loathe to donate - convert them to a Fleet only item with a zero EC value (similar to the equipment installed in new ships) and/or useable in DOFF assignments which award standard materials.
I doubt this would impact on Dil levels in the games as players would need 20 vouchers to gain the equivalent dilithium to a single voucher.
Filling up dilithium for fleet projects can suck, and it can suck royally. I'm certainly not against raising the FC payout for dilithium.
With that said it's not that difficult to get dilithium in game. if you have the average of around 3 toons, you can pull in 24k refined dilithium per day. In the span of a week that's 168k. I find it rather pitiful that out of that people can't be bothered to dontate even 1k of that per day, or even do 16k out of that once a week. In the grand scheme of things it's not that great. spending about 15 minutes in the dyson battlezone on a toon isn't that hard. people can get dilithium, it's just a matter of are they going to or not. call that elitist if you will but it's the honest truth. You don't have to dump cash to finish things, it's a matter of resource management.
I get it that people have their personal gear to worry about as well. Honestly though the little bit that I'm talking about won't make or break you and if it does, then there's more issues than one's resource management ability.
I find it rather pitiful for some to make claims about others playing. When they don't know anything about the other player or their playing time.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
I can think of a few instances where the former would be acceptable ....
However steering the thread back to the issue at hand, I think part of the wider problem is that in certain quarters (and not just in these forums), whenever the question of how to improve builds or dps or whatever is raised, invariably the words fleet console or fleet gear appear in the solution offered.
Which leads on to the point that when many "newbies" are recruited to Fleets they are generally unaware that this magical fleet gear is not readily available and that they need to contribute to the fleet to earn the credit to buy the gear and so on. This usually happens because the recruiter doesn't explain the system and just lures them in with the promise of cookies. Invariably those who can explain are never around and when they do try to make contact with the recruit they are ignored.
Perhaps a small tutorial on completion of the training cruise would be enough to start the education of players into the reality that to get anything out of a fleet you need to take part. This would at least warn them that the holy grail of that embassy or research lab console may be no nearer than a month or so away and that the Ferengi in the warehouse needs his cut of the shiny purple stuff.
I do not want my new Fleet members who are also new STO players riding around in their intial issue ship equipped with all white gear while the Projects get filled as quickly as possible. Makes the game not fun for them and then they stop playing. Which is bad for all of us who play STO.
I am the Executive Officer of a smallish KDF Fleet. Because I have been playing this game for a very long time, I have access to knowledge and resources a new(er) player may not. I do try to share this knowledge at every opportunity. Helping a newbie enjoy STO more is enjoyable for me. While I do not discourage someone new to the Fleet from contributing Dilithium to Fleet Projects, I generally do not expect them to do so.
The way we see it, dropping Dil on Fleet Projects is the job of our Fleet leadership and Fleet members with seniority, not the new guy who just started playing STO last week. If she wants to contribute, great! If she does not or, more often the case, cannot, it is okay. Those of us with resources new(er) players do not have can easily take up the slack. The world as we know it will not end because a Fleet Project is not closed out before it is even slotted.
BTW, nice to know there are others out there who help out the New Guys. They may not say it. So let me say to you for them.
Thank you, coldnapalm. Much appreciated. Please pass my thanks along to your Fleet mates as well.
Since the Dil to zen exchange is too expensive. I just use my dil for upgrades.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This won't work for most players. I stopped after it went past 150. Many other players are doing the same. So how will this help when majority of the players stopped doing the exchange. Cause it got priced out of reach. The rate can go to million Dil per 1 zen. I won't care one bit cause I'm not doing the exchange. Now its just cheaper for me to buy the zen with $ and then get my items. Removing the exchange completely out of the market. This is called by passing the middle man and going to the factory.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I would like to echo this and also to extend an invitation to any Fleet Leader or member who are will to help others within the game. Our Fleet(s) are currently rebuilding our website and will have the ability to add extra pages alongside our forum which we plan to use to provide an "academy" type area to provide information on as much aspects of gameplay as we can including a Fleet tutorial area to tell members things such as how to convert cxp to fleet marks, where facilities within the fleet holdings are etc. The first few pages should go live within a week or so (once I manage to sort out a display bug for some browsers!) and the invite is simply that your members can register on the site as "allies" and access the information. Further to this if any smaller fleets do not have access to their own forum then we would be willing to help by setting up a private area within the boards for them - all we ask is that they provide a sensible person to act as admin for this area.
Anyone who is interested is welcome to PM me for details.
Because there's a daily restriction for refining- people are going to be quite reluctant in general when they have to decide on character development versus fleet projects.
Don't hate the player- hate the game.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Filling up dilithium for fleet projects can suck, and it can suck royally. I'm certainly not against raising the FC payout for dilithium.
With that said it's not that difficult to get dilithium in game. if you have the average of around 3 toons, you can pull in 24k refined dilithium per day. In the span of a week that's 168k. I find it rather pitiful that out of that people can't be bothered to dontate even 1k of that per day, or even do 16k out of that once a week. In the grand scheme of things it's not that great. spending about 15 minutes in the dyson battlezone on a toon isn't that hard. people can get dilithium, it's just a matter of are they going to or not. call that elitist if you will but it's the honest truth. You don't have to dump cash to finish things, it's a matter of resource management.
I get it that people have their personal gear to worry about as well. Honestly though the little bit that I'm talking about won't make or break you and if it does, then there's more issues than one's resource management ability.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that the players control their own resources and whether they wish to donate is their decision alone. If you want them to donate- you need to provide incentive for them to do so. People aren't going to work for very little reward or return, anymore than an investment banker is just going to give you money because you ask nicely.
There are a lot of other variables to consider when it comes to balancing resources in this game, such as an ever-changing meta, game changes in general, and available time people have to play. Not everyone is "space rich" or even "RL rich" and can afford to drop $100 a week on Zen to offset their Dilithium donations to fleet, either. Not everyone lives in their parent's basement sucking down energy drinks and eating junk food- lots if not most people actually have RL responsibilities and their time to grind Zen/Dilithium or EC is limited to such. Personally- I donate what I can, when I can, but I don't speak for everyone else.
Combining the FC payout rewards and perhaps even allowing unrefined dilithium to be spent on Fleet projects would do wonders for donations, IMO. After all, how could such a change really imbalance anything else, considering there's a daily refining limit?
Oh and by the way... as the age old adage goes, you'll catch more flies with honey than you will vinegar. Something to consider when it comes to judgmental attitude toward other players and incentive.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Those who participated on the forums at that time may have shot it down, but I don't think that's the entire community.
Mob rules mentality doesn't mean "right", it simply means majority opinion.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
The general idea could also be expanded to those materials and consumables which players seem loathe to donate - convert them to a Fleet only item with a zero EC value (similar to the equipment installed in new ships) and/or useable in DOFF assignments which award standard materials.
I doubt this would impact on Dil levels in the games as players would need 20 vouchers to gain the equivalent dilithium to a single voucher.
I find it rather pitiful for some to make claims about others playing. When they don't know anything about the other player or their playing time.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Maybe you'll get your way...prices keep rising, even after the sales are done.
If nothing else they should give a little bit of a boost to how much fleet credit you earn per dilithium.