Change in Aggro?

theyredeadjim

I have noticed that some of my missions are permitting NPC aggro where they did not before. This appears to involve assets that are invisible or permit some visibility. For example, one of my published missions has glass floors that also have invisible floors just underneath the glass to prevent aggro. This arrangement has worked in the past, but it appears that it no longer prevents aggro; while the NPCs cannot path through the floor, they do make their way upstairs to attack the PC before they are intended to. I have noted similar behaviour when using forcefields backed with invisible walls.

If you make use of this type of construction, you might want to check your projects.

Cheers!

markhawkman

Hunh, so you're attracting aggro while outside line-of-sight?

Actually, I've noticed Snowmen in QWW doing that too. They've been climbing over hills to get at me even when I haven't shot at that particular snowman. I'm wondering it's a change to the basic game mechanic.

primar13

markhawkman wrote: »

Hunh, so you're attracting aggro while outside line-of-sight?

Actually, I've noticed Snowmen in QWW doing that too. They've been climbing over hills to get at me even when I haven't shot at that particular snowman. I'm wondering it's a change to the basic game mechanic.

Doubt its an intentional one.

theyredeadjim

markhawkman wrote: »

Hunh, so you're attracting aggro while outside line-of-sight?

Actually, I've noticed Snowmen in QWW doing that too. They've been climbing over hills to get at me even when I haven't shot at that particular snowman. I'm wondering it's a change to the basic game mechanic.

In a real world scenario, mine would be line-of-sight, as the glass floor and the invisible floor are transparent. In the past, though, the game has always treated the two used together as if they were opaque, and aggro could be avoided. I've also noticed that the TOS Grate is also giving rise to aggro for NPCs in proximity of the Player on the other side of the grate. I haven't seen the same problems where opaque bariers are in place. Come to think of it though, the NPCs could be going nuts on the other side of an opaque wall, and who would know?

The Snowmen thing might be something different. In my last mission, I had a little fun by splitting up an NPC group, such that one member of the group could end up being in front of the Player, with the other members off to the back and side. When the player attacks/aggros the NPC in front, the others come swarming in from the back and side.

primar13 wrote: »

Doubt its an intentional one.

If it only affects line-of-sight through transparent assets, it might be an attempt to improve realism. Otherwise, I agree that it's doubtful that it's an intentional change to the game mechanic. I'm just not sure whether I should report it as bug. I did think that people should know about it, so that they could check their own missions.

paxfederatica

I've noticed something similar while building a skycastle casino map for my in-development mission "Mirrorball". In it, I have the player set a rally point for the away team near the spawn point in the casino lobby and go in alone. Once the player is inside the casino proper, the reach marker triggers two enemy captain mobs to spawn inside the lobby, out of the player's view, to disable the away team BOffs and then despawn before the player returns, so that s/he must face a third, commander-level mob alone (or revive the downed BOffs). An invisi-wall also spawns within the lobby at the same time as the captain mobs, to prevent their fight with the BOffs from spilling over into the casino proper (it, too, is despawned before the player returns).

Anyway, I noticed that once the captain mobs dispatch the BOffs, they then try to follow the player into the casino even though I've supposedly blocked their LOS with the invisi-wall. I ended up having to move the invisi-wall back much closer to the spawn point, so that the player doesn't notice them trying to follow the player in.

markhawkman

Well Snowmen do seem to have mobs, but most of them are mobs of 1 or 2 snowmen. Some of the incidents I've seen have them do stuff like climbing over a snow ridge line for a pre-emptive attack.

guljarol

Hmm, that would explain my own problems with keeping my enemy mobs not attacking the player. I build a double invisible wall around them, and they still react to the player when the player is close enough. I thought I was doing something wrong, but it's possible that it's a bigger problem.​​

antman9173

Mind you this is personal experience over my playtime for the life of the game through each season and foundry editing as well, not been tested or proven, and I'm sure someone put a very lengthy post or two about it somewhere.

Ground aggro has always been a proximity based trigger with two "circles" if you will. The first circle is the detection, when NPCs will turn and face you but do nothing. If you continue to move closer into the "inner circle" or stay in that "outer circle" that is when they start to attack, but if you quickly back out of that "outer circle" they return to doing whatever they are doing. So for me I've never seen LOS as "Oh they can't see me I'm good" if you are in that circle they KNOW you are there regardless of LOS.

Now I know someone said something about npcs trying to attack the PC after taking care of BOffs through inviswalls and stuff, again from my personal experience, Your BOffs are like an extension of you, even if you break LOS and they die "defending" you if you are still in the "circle" (which by my reason expands exponentially when the NPC enters combat, that's why you get chased for so long in some instances before they actually do break off) they are still technically aggro'd to you and that's why they continue to chase you.

Just my two cents Obviously there are flaws in this reasoning and I'm not a super nerd trying to find the answers, this is drawn from the experiences I've had over the last 5 years of playtime, but I'd like to think its in the general direction of the truth.

zionus0

t may have changed a bit- I've had enemies teleport through three layered invisible walls and a foundation block recently- when they are completely boxed in.

markhawkman

After playing a foundry mission yesterday, I noticed something odd. As the mission progressed it seemed as if the aggro range was increasing each time I killed enemies. It was kinda like my aggro rating was what set the distance enemies would engage at.

In more detail:
The map has 4 rooms connected by a + shaped hallway.
I wiped the enemies in the first room, no reaction from the rest.
I wiped the enemies in the hallway, no reaction.
I hit the room to the right... BOTH mobs in the room came after me simultaneously, no reaction from mobs outside the room though.
I hit the room on the left... same thing. THEN the mobs from the top room came after me! They took long enough that I finished wiping both the mobs in that room before they go there, and I managed to take out everything but the enemy commander before going down.

So yeah... that seems... different.

primar13

Hey guys. Just to cover our bases here, can I have some info.

I need a couple Mission ID's:

Please let me know which Category your Mission Falls in though...

• Mission Worked Correctly before but since ___________ No Longer Functions Right
• Mission was created after the incident and is currently affected.

Also mob names might help.

markhawkman

the mission I played was called Lost in Time.
ID: - ST-HC8NH4AFZ
Author - Thesprooks17

It didn't seem to have any invisiwalls or anything like that, but it was kinda odd how enemies started to converge on my location.

EDIT: the enemies were Imperial/Tal Shiar Romulans.

theyredeadjim

Mission Name: Deus In Machina
Project Id: ST-HIYASJH9I
Author: @Thomas_Baston
Faction: Federation
Minimum Level: 16+

The Alien Facility map is dual level, with glass floors in some areas that are reinforced with invisible floors. The first mob encountered by the player is mirrored on the lower level; both are reskinned commander level Devidian mobs.

In the past, combat on the top level did not impact the lower level; however, combat on the top level seems to draw the other mob in lately.

I have also noted the same behaviour in my recent test maps...on one, it was so pronounced that members of an enemy mob jumped through a forcefield fortified by an invisible wall in order to attack the party.

*edit* It appears that certain attacks can target and attack through the walls/floors and aggro NPC mobs now; the Quantum Mortar appears to be one such attack that I have noticed. Concussive Tachyon Emission appears to be another.