klingonese for klingons

czertik321

there was allways one part that i misssed in sto, and thats proper klingons. since kdf is played by hardcore fans...well why not to take next logical step and make here on/off klingonese ? why just have insults here n klingonese, let have it everthing . im sure there will be many fans wiling to job to translate all text. But who will make voice over ?

kjwashington

The problem with this is that there isn't any hard canon reference for them to use for a translation, and as great as fan translations are, they don't have the complete dictionary of every word. As far as letting the players do the translations, I doubt there's anyone that hard core still left playing the game. More importantly, there wouldn't be any way to monetize it, unless you put it behind a pay-wall. And I seriously doubt this could even return anything resembling a profit for Cryptic.

guljarol

czertik321#1621 wrote: »

there was allways one part that i misssed in sto, and thats proper klingons. since kdf is played by hardcore fans...well why not to take next logical step and make here on/off klingonese ? why just have insults here n klingonese, let have it everthing . im sure there will be many fans wiling to job to translate all text. But who will make voice over ?

Aside of what "translated by fans" nightmare could be -- not all KDF are Klingons. Thanks, but no, thanks.​​

horridperson

Even if you were able to provide an accurate translation the limited number of persons who would appreciate it would make the effort pointless. Most dialogue is text so would you present it as Klingon or pIqaD? For any audio dialogue you would require the edition of subtitles in player's languages or a repeat function. If this were remotely feasible I would still be against such an idea. The last thing the KDF faction needs are barriers to inclusion.

mustrumridcully0

I still remember that when the Klingon Social Hub was revamped, Cryptic made the signs show Klingon writing until you got closer and it changed to an English translation. That was a cool effect, but it was unfortunately removed. (Probably because it didn't help newbies who were confused and trying to orient themselves.)


What I would like to see is that every Romulan and Klingon ship class name on the Wiki offer a translation of the expression. I know ,it's a Wiki, I could do it myself, but it's a Wiki, why can't someone else do it and I can stay lazy?

flash525

The klingonese spoken [in the outtakes] of JJ's Trek was brilliant, and really worked.

The problem with klingonese in TNG & DS9 is that it was more... barky. The klingonese in JJ's trek was more fluid.

gulberat

Were they actually different languages, or just (what we could assume to be) different regional dialects with significant variations in pronunciation?

admrenlarreck

Just think I'll drop this here.

http://www.kli.org/

Unknown

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horridperson

@gulberat

Sort of. Translated Klingon uses the English alphabet as a basis to ease tera'ngan (earther) comprehension. pIqaD is "native" Klingon that uses symbols/characters; No idea what they actually mean but they look properly alien if you throw a sequence of them on a Klingon prop.

---

Signs that self translate would be cool or that provide a help translation when you mouse hover over them would be cool. I might like to see cinematic narration with player language subtitles from time to time for voice acting but a wall of incomprehensible text would turn people away. In the Doomsday Device mission even without translation K'Valk's death song made for one of the most stirring scenes in the game. Including audible Klingon in future story cinematics wouldn't break the bank more than other voice acting services.

gulberat

Oh, I meant the Prime vs. JJ thing.

chastity1337

spielman1 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind having sings in Klingon

Ummm, sings? Isn't Klingon opera like really horrible?

risian4

Implementing such a thing would probably cost a lot, and benefit only a handful of people. How many people can actually read klingonese? Maybe a handful of people?

Adding some fragments in klingonese may work, but translating significant parts of missions and such would be too much for something that would add little beside something funny for a very small minority.

flash525

gulberat wrote: »

Were they actually different languages, or just (what we could assume to be) different regional dialects with significant variations in pronunciation?

Oh I don't know. I had always assumed though that they'd just better developed the language. TNG/DS9 was more words, whereas JJTrek was actual sentences.

horridperson

The Klingon language was intended to be terse and feel clipped. The veracity of the language was accurately conveyed prior to JJ Trek. A jargon existed within in an already spartan language to convey ideas as quickly as possible while in battle. I thought there might have been something to substantiate the comment beyond, "I liked it better". The language was developed largely by Marc Okrand with syntax and pronunciation that were faithfully adopted in the films and series that followed it's introduction.

With a small sampling of actors speaking Klingon in the Abrams movies it's likely the flow was the result of individual actors reading the lines not "evolving" the language. given the designs that were rejected for Klingons vs. the ones that made it to screen I'm surprised Abrams didn't have them speaking Uruk Hai.

ssbn655

kjwashington wrote: »

The problem with this is that there isn't any hard canon reference for them to use for a translation, and as great as fan translations are, they don't have the complete dictionary of every word. As far as letting the players do the translations, I doubt there's anyone that hard core still left playing the game. More importantly, there wouldn't be any way to monetize it, unless you put it behind a pay-wall. And I seriously doubt this could even return anything resembling a profit for Cryptic.

Actually there is. Rosetta Stone has Klingon language learning sylabus version for almost 2 years now. Plus Bing Translator also has Klingon on it for about 3 years now.

gulberat

I thought that Rosetta thing was a joke by ThinkGeek and Michael Dorn?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn1VjbJtx-4

jodarkrider

I don't think there are many people who'd be able to fully enjoy actual klingon language. I've been learning it, but even after quite a time, I can't read the Klingon-signs (the alphabet).

markhawkman

I'd rather learn something like Romulan or Krenim.

I actually collect, and sometimes create, translation matrixes for artificial languages. I can actually read Skrull and Kryptonian.

lopequil

@jodarkrider funnily enough it was the other way round for me. Memorising a couple dozen of symbols is so much easier than those damn verb suffixes.

If you want some good examples of spoken Klingon from the canon I would suggest the scene with Azetbur, but really anything with Christopher Lloyd is best. I understand that Okrand liked some of his mistakes so much he changed the language as he was writing it.

For the moment I content myself with whimsical ship names (PM me if you want one translating) and our fleet MOTD*, which is mainly for my own amusement since I'm the only one ever likely to get it.

My advice to anyone wanting to learn is to get hold of the original dictionary and supplement it with the what is on klingonska. Bing is near useless with anything more complicated than single words, but is somewhat handy for rendering pre-translated phrases into pIqaD.

*chom HIvtaH yImev! tlhutlhvaD tach cherta'!

czertik321

i thinkl that many mised that this tranlantion will be OPTIONAL, and if done by volunters it will cost cryptinc absolutely NOTHING, well except coding swithing of texts and giving acces to files to translators which take some time from its crew, but that all cost involved from cryptic part.
And who will profit from it ? well, players which will love to try it ? if voice will be in eglish players will undertand by hearing.

And for that time in which you have at chronos klingon signs instead of english ones...well i will love that feature back, of course,again optional.

markhawkman

Um yeah... there's no way Cryptic is putting text in the game without proof reading it first. Which in this case requires translating it themselves... also....

There's this thing: http://www.bing.com/translator/ It does Klingon:
Hija... pagh mIw bIngDaq ghItlh leghlu' pu'HIch cryptic neH Quj Hutlh tob 'oH laD wa'DIch tu'lu'. 'oH mugh bIH'e' … je beQDaq case poQ jIHMej je.

lopequil

I suggest you put that back into Bing and see what you get. You could tell me what the English was and I've have a bash at translating properly, but that would bring us to what would be a big impediment to a translation: fans don't always agree with each other. Perhaps we might see something like a competition so that a few people can collaborate on such a thing, as otherwise you're likely to see a half-dozen different opinions on how even the most simple phrases ought to be rendered.

markhawkman

lopequil wrote: »

I suggest you put that back into Bing and see what you get. You could tell me what the English was and I've have a bash at translating properly, but that would bring us to what would be a big impediment to a translation: fans don't always agree with each other. Perhaps we might see something like a competition so that a few people can collaborate on such a thing, as otherwise you're likely to see a half-dozen different opinions on how even the most simple phrases ought to be rendered.

It's the first paragraph of my post.

My point is that they'd, for legal reasons, be more likely to use Bing than fans.

lopequil

I see your point, but a fan can show their work as it were. Bing may look right to many, but to some it merely appears foolish.

jodarkrider

Well, bing klingon is mostly grammatically incorrect. It's called "bingon" by those who can or learn the klingon language proper.

orangeitis

Wonder if Klingons are on their own computers right now talking about Humanese...

markhawkman

jodarkrider wrote: »

Well, bing klingon is mostly grammatically incorrect. It's called "bingon" by those who can or learn the klingon language proper.

That doesn't surprise me. universal translators have not been invented yet.

ssbn655

gulberat wrote: »

I thought that Rosetta thing was a joke by ThinkGeek and Michael Dorn?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn1VjbJtx-4

Nope not a joke the software is $269. It's on my birthday wish list that I handed to the wife.

jodarkrider

ssbn655 wrote: »

Nope not a joke the software is $269. It's on my birthday wish list that I handed to the wife.

It is a joke, actually.

gulberat

jodarkrider wrote: »

ssbn655 wrote: »

Nope not a joke the software is $269. It's on my birthday wish list that I handed to the wife.

It is a joke, actually.

That's what I thought I remembered. Plus...the look on Michael Dorn's face says it all. He's enjoying himself way too much there.