Is the Foundry software still being developed?

penemue

What I want to suggest might have to be patched in the actual game engine of STO so it's not available - but does anyone else wish you can make at least the dialog vary by player species? This is most important with the Romulans given that the Foundry is generally supposed to be story driven and it makes no sense to have Romulans talking about their time at Starfleet or discussing how they're a proud warrior of the Klingon Empire.

Regardless, it would be really nice if if the creators considered putting in an option to have a different piece of dialog or a different button reply depending on the player species. However, I suspect this would involve some changes to the code of the core engine of STO - but it would open up the options for foundry makers to make more immersive missions.

I'm not saying the mission or even the dialog tree itself should change - just an "override" panel where you can choose override text and button names based on the species of the player character.

If the dialog system is programmed properly with OOP this should be relatively easy to stick into the STO engine. Implementing its functionality in the foundry would be a bit more work - but not all that much - however I'm not familiar with the source code so I can't say for sure.

Considering the payoff: fully immersive dialog - the true appeal of well done foundry missions - I think Cryptic should consider it.

I'm not sure if they're planning on making it a reality, but I've read they're still thinking of putting Cardassians into the game which would make it even more important that such a feature be considered.

markhawkman

heh, I'm not sure how much work they're doing on the actual bones of the Foundry, most updates are simply new props for us to use.

duncanidaho11

penemue#7777 wrote: »

What I want to suggest might have to be patched in the actual game engine of STO so it's not available - but does anyone else wish you can make at least the dialog vary by player species? This is most important with the Romulans given that the Foundry is generally supposed to be story driven and it makes no sense to have Romulans talking about their time at Starfleet or discussing how they're a proud warrior of the Klingon Empire.

Regardless, it would be really nice if if the creators considered putting in an option to have a different piece of dialog or a different button reply depending on the player species. However, I suspect this would involve some changes to the code of the core engine of STO - but it would open up the options for foundry makers to make more immersive missions.

Wait, creators as in Cryptic? I've already been doing all that for all my missions!

If you want to create more species options all you need to do is create multiple dialog paths (that may or may not sink up again, its up to you) with tags before each one that indicates what faction/species they're for. (FED), (KDF), (ROM) for the factions works very easily and it seems like everyone who's played my stuff has caught onto it too (there hasn't been a review saying "gah, I couldn't keep the faction choices straight!" Quite the opposite, really. )

I've also done (2409) and (2410) to change how characters respond to points that are dependent on the time setting and my next mission will have some specific species options for Orion and Klingon (and I'm working on getting one or two (Gorn) in there too.)

penemue

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Wait, creators as in Cryptic? I've already been doing all that for all my missions!

If you want to create more species options all you need to do is create multiple dialog paths (that may or may not sink up again, its up to you) with tags before each one that indicates what faction/species they're for. (FED), (KDF), (ROM) for the factions works very easily and it seems like everyone who's played my stuff has caught onto it too (there hasn't been a review saying "gah, I couldn't keep the faction choices straight!" Quite the opposite, really. )

I've also done (2409) and (2410) to change how characters respond to points that are dependent on the time setting and my next mission will have some specific species options for Orion and Klingon (and I'm working on getting one or two (Gorn) in there too.)

But that's such a hack... The presence of an actual mechanic in the engine to make this happen would generally encourage devs to write in such a fashion - where they account for other species.

ktonof1aq

This is a good point and speaks to a need in the game overall. It doesn't matter what species you're playing in the regular mission journal holodeck missions either. NPC's react the same regardless of whether you're toon/avatar is a Klingon, Ferengi, or any of the other "playable" species in the game. In fact, these "playable" species are basically operating as just skins.

This is not a criticism of cryptic. I love STO and since I've never designed a successful MMO in my life, I really have no idea how the coding mech would work. This might be tech that adds a depth to MMO's along the line of voice over acting.

Overall, foundry authors and Cryptic have gotten very good at recognizing that toons/avatars would speak/react according to the characteristics of their species. I've seen/used [Logical], [Impulsive], [Hostile], and [Diplomatic] to species specific [vulcan], [human], and [alien] (the latter being really funny since to a vulcan or anyone not of that specific species, the other options would be alien anyway--me thinks terran superiority is in play here!!! ).

penemue

ktonof1aq wrote: »

Overall, foundry authors and Cryptic have gotten very good at recognizing that toons/avatars would speak/react according to the characteristics of their species.

It's just absurd for my Romulan (Romulans are my favorite antagonist species in ST) to be treated like a Klingon - I still enjoy the stories, but it would be nice to give Foundry authors the option to have different dialog in case they want to spend a little extra effort to push immersion. However, one of the plot lines I wanted to write makes no sense if the player is a member of the Romulan Republic because it takes the player to New Romulus so the dialog would have to be substantially different to make sense if the character is Fed or Romulan. There's literally no way I can write neutral dialog in such a case because you might have a Romulan player who should be treated as a "insider" and a Federation one who should be treated as a "outsider." I'll just write it for Fed - and I still enjoy Foundry missions that treat me as if I were a member of Starfleet or well adjusted to Klingon culture (I just got through parts I and II of "No Prize for Second Contact" and enjoy it immensely on my Romulan - but the author strikes me as the type - being so incredibly wordy - who would take advantage of an option to provide different dialog for a Romulan captain - because it would be different because the primary antagonist is Romulans).

It just bugs me there's no way to adapt my mission to multiple species. Similarly you would expect a Federation Klingon to react to missions involving temporary Klingon alliances and the sort differently than a Federation Andorian.

ktonof1aq wrote: »

I really no idea how the coding mech would work

I haven't programmed an MMO before either - and I'm not an expert coder - but I have several years of C# and C++ under my belt so I'm not totally ignorant either. If the code itself is properly designed in SOLID fashion (a usually rigorously enforced design principle in modern programming) then, like I said, the hardest part would be creating the GUI for the foundry rather than making such a modification to the engine iteself. It also depends on how they write the data for storage. It's possible they use something too static to vary - I don't know.

penemue

[This post deleted as it was an accidental duplicate]

drogyn1701

The answer to your thread title question is generally no, the Foundry is not getting development on this level. The answer we assume to be true is because it doesn't by itself generate revenue, thus they can't really justify scheduling developer time for it more than maybe once a year. There was some time put on Taco's schedule for Foundry stuff earlier this year, but he used it to finish Club 47, which was something everyone wanted. He was upfront about it and most people here agreed with his choice. That said, the devs do like the Foundry and several of them (including Taco and Zeronius Rex) take their spare time to add more ships, costumes, NPCs and occasionally maps. This is great, but I don't look for them to do much beyond that. Even the Neverwinter Foundry doesn't really get all that much development from what I've read.

duncanidaho11

penemue#7777 wrote: »

But that's such a hack... The presence of an actual mechanic in the engine to make this happen would generally encourage devs to write in such a fashion - where they account for other species.

Well, only very indirectly. It would only apply to authors who haven't seen dialog labels used, haven't independently arrived at the idea themselves, and want to include more dialog choices in (which you cannot assume as many ST plots are faction specific or species agnostic.)

That's a very narrow margin to dedicate an incredibly rare (if not unheard of) foundry UI update to. It wouldn't be an unwelcome feature but it wouldn't substantially change the quality or tone of the missions made. People already get by just fine, which is hard to say for a lot of other foundry improvement suggestions.

guljarol

penemue#7777 wrote: »

It's just absurd for my Romulan (Romulans are my favorite antagonist species in ST) to be treated like a Klingon - I still enjoy the stories, but it would be nice to give Foundry authors the option to have different dialog in case they want to spend a little extra effort to push immersion. However, one of the plot lines I wanted to write makes no sense if the player is a member of the Romulan Republic because it takes the player to New Romulus so the dialog would have to be substantially different to make sense if the character is Fed or Romulan. There's literally no way I can write neutral dialog in such a case because you might have a Romulan player who should be treated as a "insider" and a Federation one who should be treated as a "outsider." I'll just write it for Fed - and I still enjoy Foundry missions that treat me as if I were a member of Starfleet or well adjusted to Klingon culture (I just got through parts I and II of "No Prize for Second Contact" and enjoy it immensely on my Romulan - but the author strikes me as the type - being so incredibly wordy - who would take advantage of an option to provide different dialog for a Romulan captain - because it would be different because the primary antagonist is Romulans).

Sorry, but I disagree. It's up to an author to write a story for a Romulan or additional dialogue for a Romulan. There are stories for Rom characters only, and there are stories that take into account that Roms could play it, and have a special dialogue option(s) for a Rom character. And it CAN be done. People do it.

If you play a purely KDF/Fed missions made by someone, who didn't care about making it Rom-friendly, it's on the author, not Cryptic.

What I hate is a series of rom-friendly missions that one in the middle has "Rom toons not supported". If you played the series as a Romulan, you suddenly get slapped.
But it's also on authors, not Cryptic.

Same with KDF missions assuming you're a Klingon. Feddie authors are less "human-centric" ​​