It's quite simple, isn't it ? Either BFAW gets whacked good with the nerf hammer, or we see another round of bloating mob HP's. Which would then make cannons and torps even more obsolete...
An ability which does top single target and aoe damage and clears mines, torps, probes and fighters without even targetting an enemy.
Thanks to BFAW and keybinds the space bar morfed into the mythical I-win button.
If Cryptic were wise, they would 1) Give some small boosts to cannons, and then 2) Observe, watch, analyze, and then repeat step one until they come into line with FAW.
"Taking" away from the playerbase is rarely a good idea for an MMO. DPS leagues in no way represent the bulk of casual players who often may only get through a mission -because- of FAW. Yes, elitists will say, "L2P!", but that's simply not realistic.
Baby-step improvements to cannons. Nobody has to 'lose' anything.
If Cryptic were wise, they would 1) Give some small boosts to cannons, and then 2) Observe, watch, analyze, and then repeat step one until they come into line with FAW.
"Taking" away from the playerbase is rarely a good idea for an MMO. DPS leagues in no way represent the bulk of casual players who often may only get through a mission -because- of FAW. Yes, elitists will say, "L2P!", but that's simply not realistic.
Baby-step improvements to cannons. Nobody has to 'lose' anything.
The rising tide approach leads to another DR, and contrary to popular belief, not all players loved it.
Best to cut the tall poppy and get on with life.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
It's almost like asking the question, "Why have these weapons been the go-to for these factions for over 200 years in the Star Trek universe?".
Well now you know.
Leave well enough alone.
Then lets look at it from your perspective.... why are ships in STO removing torpedoes and replacing them with beams? Aren't torpedoes a major part of Star Trek?
?? I've never run a ship without torps in the entire 4 years I've been playing STO. I also stuck with FAW while it was borked and couldn't crit, but that was more that it was before the Boff skill revamp and I didn't want to take the time to retrain all my Boffs. I pretty much only use 3 Tac skills, BO, BFAW, and TS, the rest are just boring but I might throw in an APO if I'm flying a ship with a Cmdr Tac slot.
While you might not be removing those torps, many player are. If you want to compete in the dps league, unless you have KLW, it's basically a must. In fact I would bet good money that meathook, who is advocating so very hard for BFAW to not get nerfed because BFAW is so canonical that it's a must be left alone (funny how nobody said this when it was broken in the other direction), does not have a torp fore and aft on his cruiser. Because cruiser having torps in the front and rear are a major part of trek. Even more so the BFAW...which is used how many times in trek? VS torpedos being fired from the front and rear?
Lol, you should check my post history, I don't care about the DPS league, never have. I don't even parse.
I run with quantums fore and aft. I just wish that torps were effective in draining shields.
I'm just saying that BFAW has made flying a cruiser as a Tac fun again. Long overdue.
This game as with any other is about having fun for me. It's a Star Trek game and it's feeling very "Trekkie" so I'm having fun.
The dps league sounds like a job. I already have a job.
The claim that canon ships running canon weapons are OP is hilarious to me.
That should be the definition of WAI.
@meathook2099 you are bringing nothing to this thread except your self professed love for Trek. I don't think you've realised that the reason there are 2 BFAW threads is because not everyone is enjoying playing spacebar hero with BFAW3+TS3.
P.S. Trek was all about caring for others beliefs and wishes... Right now... You're not!
@meathook2099 you are bringing nothing to this thread except your self professed love for Trek. I don't think you've realised that the reason there are 2 BFAW threads is because not everyone is enjoying playing spacebar hero with BFAW3+TS3.
P.S. Trek was all about caring for others beliefs and wishes... Right now... You're not!
My love of Trek is exactly what I bring to this thread.
My love of Trek and its essential elements.
I don't know what the sales figures are as far as ship class goes. I know what I see in sector space and in space battles in this game and I know that relegating the most beautiful and iconic class of ships in this game to the level of healing tank was dumb and foolishly limiting. I also know what it looks like when a cruiser swoops in and unleashes devastating beam blasts at multiple targets and I know that because I saw it long before this game existed on a show called Star Trek.
Buff what you will but please leave BFAW alone.
So did it another you when I could blow up a cruiser in 2 seconds with an alphastrike?
This is a game and games need balance don't forget that cruisers, despite their power had a hard time hitting escort sized ships were always taking hits due to their size. Not only that, federation cruisers aren't warships, they carried weapons to defend themselves with not to wage war with.
I'm not quite sure where this nerf faw or another hp boost thinking is coming from. Whether faw gets nerfed or not there will more than likely be another hp increase to maps. This isn't a one thing or the other kind of situation.
Delta Rising didn't go down to well with a lot of players due to the increase in Mob health and shields and the auto failure in PvE. I can't see Cryptic going down that route again as that model did serious harm to the game at that time. BFAW doesn't need a nerf. Other powers need realigning to be brought up to par with them as Cannons have had very little love since DR went live. Traits/Console wise they are still at the same level pre-DR so have not got the boosts BFAW has with the traits/consoles ect.
Anyway i see NERF as
Never
Ever
Rework
Fire At Will
8x Beams + Hitting BFAW and Space is just too suprior and boring Beam Overload should also maybe be overlooked that it should do Massive energy spikes for 5-10 seconds like the Romulan Singularity power does. But most the time singletarget abilities are worthless if there are always 10 enemys+....
Haven't read through 7 pages of rants comments. Will do that when i have more time than a simple coffee break.
Is the problem with BFAW not the stacking of various powers like Attack pattern alpha, go down fighting and overcapping?
Therefor the easiest solution would have to be to not let attack pattern alpha and go down fighting interact with BFAW.
This suggestion will probably bring out a lynch mob of tactical players so I'll just hide go back to work.
No matter how unpopular, this would be the solution to the "One power to rule them all" scenario.
Some other things might be useful as well such as reducing the drop off effect on single cannons, DHC and turrets.
In addition, something must be thought up for DC since those are only used by those who cannon afford BA or DHC.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
How about we let BFaW get nerfed when they take the hammer to Dilithium acquisition... that could use a little pruning...
Lol, people spent the last year demanding more sources of Dilithium, they gave it to us, now people want it taken away.So funny.
Much like many people don't think of Time To Kill as a dps metric and instead see only big numbers (while spending as long or longer to actually kill the mob) people don't think of the Time Per Zen and only see that they can get their 8k limit 20% faster and then complain about it taking 20% more Dil to get the same zen.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
BFAW is very broken as it is right now. Just boot up BFAW and watch everything melt without having to use any real skills. This is most definetly not how an AOE attack with beams should work. It should never out DPS a beam overload and should have a longer cool down to reflect many shots in a brief period over heating the weapon systems. I hav e a thought how to reign in BFAW to prevent another round of DR mega HP npc's. On the locked on primary target full damage on the next closest target 75% damage, Third 50% and on targets not in the primary targets arc 60% on closest, 40% on the next, 30% on the final. As the focus of BFAW should be the primary target and those near it in the primary targets arc.
BFAW is very broken as it is right now. Just boot up BFAW and watch everything melt without having to use any real skills. This is most definetly not how an AOE attack with beams should work. It should never out DPS a beam overload and should have a longer cool down to reflect many shots in a brief period over heating the weapon systems. I hav e a thought how to reign in BFAW to prevent another round of DR mega HP npc's. On the locked on primary target full damage on the next closest target 75% damage, Third 50% and on targets not in the primary targets arc 60% on closest, 40% on the next, 30% on the final. As the focus of BFAW should be the primary target and those near it in the primary targets arc.
Careful here. As much as I am for nerfing BFAW, comparisions with Beam Overload can be misleading.
Beam Overload affects only a single beam - this might seem like a drawback, until you realize you can integrate a single Beam or Dual Beam Bank on a ship with non-beam weapons (cannons or torps) and use Beam Overload still to full effect.
This is not the most interesting option on a ship with a low number of tactical bridge officer skills, but if you have many, all the shared cooldowns between powers means that you might not normally be unable to use all of them at the same time. If you add in a single beam, you can now use another up to Lt.Cmdr level power and come out ahead to using another torp or cannon. cannon rapid fire or cannon scatter volley likely do not buff a single cannon as much as beam overload buffs a single beam.
Same thing is true for the torpedo and torpedo buffs.
For torpedo boats, the game is missing an all-torpedo launcher buff skill (something like "torpedo rapid fire" or "torpedo fire at will"). Kemocite might come closest to that, but it's packed away in a lockbox and costs ridicilious amounts of money.)
BFAW probably tries to do too many things at once. It's name implies something that takes a duration (unlike a high yield torpedo or a torpedo spread), but it's also interpreted as AoE. Removing AoE capability of BFAW however would leave a gap in beam buffs.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Turn BFAW into a "combination" skill. IE you can use it in conjunction with Surgical Strikes or Beam Overload or another skill.
IE FAW becomes more of a "firing mode" where you randomly target multiple targets, but instead of doing what it does with boosting damage plus hitting multiple targets, it just targets multiple targets and its up to you using another skill like Overload or Surgical Strikes or maybe even Subsystem Targeting to combine it into a 2-skill required combo attack.
BFAW is very broken as it is right now. Just boot up BFAW and watch everything melt without having to use any real skills. This is most definetly not how an AOE attack with beams should work. It should never out DPS a beam overload and should have a longer cool down to reflect many shots in a brief period over heating the weapon systems. I hav e a thought how to reign in BFAW to prevent another round of DR mega HP npc's. On the locked on primary target full damage on the next closest target 75% damage, Third 50% and on targets not in the primary targets arc 60% on closest, 40% on the next, 30% on the final. As the focus of BFAW should be the primary target and those near it in the primary targets arc.
Careful here. As much as I am for nerfing BFAW, comparisions with Beam Overload can be misleading.
Beam Overload affects only a single beam - this might seem like a drawback, until you realize you can integrate a single Beam or Dual Beam Bank on a ship with non-beam weapons (cannons or torps) and use Beam Overload still to full effect.
This is not the most interesting option on a ship with a low number of tactical bridge officer skills, but if you have many, all the shared cooldowns between powers means that you might not normally be unable to use all of them at the same time. If you add in a single beam, you can now use another up to Lt.Cmdr level power and come out ahead to using another torp or cannon. cannon rapid fire or cannon scatter volley likely do not buff a single cannon as much as beam overload buffs a single beam.
Same thing is true for the torpedo and torpedo buffs.
For torpedo boats, the game is missing an all-torpedo launcher buff skill (something like "torpedo rapid fire" or "torpedo fire at will"). Kemocite might come closest to that, but it's packed away in a lockbox and costs ridicilious amounts of money.)
BFAW probably tries to do too many things at once. It's name implies something that takes a duration (unlike a high yield torpedo or a torpedo spread), but it's also interpreted as AoE. Removing AoE capability of BFAW however would leave a gap in beam buffs.
I agree torpedoes do need an all launcher type ability, even if it were a rework of how torp spread works making it function alot like how beam: fire at will does in ways. Such as that you fire your main spread from the launcher you activate the ability from, but than it would also fire an additional 1-3 torpedoes from each of the other launchers slotted on your ship (i would limit it to launchers of a similar type like photon, quantum, plasma, and so on), though these additional torps would be fired upon those ships within their range as well as firing arcs respectively. An this has been seen in star trek with ships firing a spread from both aft an fore torpedo launchers.
I would not mind seeing something like a torpedo ability that enhances the rate of fire, as well as the travel speed of your torpedoes while active, maybe as a form of toggle ability that lowers the damage of your torpedoes while it is active. This could also be done for beam: Overload as well. With that while toggled on it improves the critical chance an either the critical severity or damage output of your beam weapons, but also increases these beam weapon's power consumption, which I always have liked the idea of more power level management being rewarded.
Though another option is that beam: overload stays as it is now with giving a critical severity an damage buff, but that it also will diverts power from other slotted beam weapons to the main firing beam to additionally buff the damage of the weapon. This could be done that beam arrays give a 3-5% buff per array, while beam banks give a 6-9% buff per bank, which would actually make using a beam-overload still effective on cannon-type using ships yet also on beam array/bank using ships as well.
Now i will say that i do think beam: Fire at will needs to have a downside when being used on multi targets, just to compensate for how good it is on single targets as well. I do like the idea that it has full effect on the main target regardless of how many additional targets it fires on, but that for each additional target fired on beyond the main target it would have those shot's damage output reduced by 1-3% per target. At ten additional targets that would be a 30-50% drop on the damage output of those shots against the non-main targets, which is still effective an useful yet not nearly as impressive an powerful as it is currently. Though the issue with this might be the lag gained from the server having to check an update how many targets you are firing on, and apply that change to your beam fire at will attacks on them.
Turn BFAW into a "combination" skill. IE you can use it in conjunction with Surgical Strikes or Beam Overload or another skill.
IE FAW becomes more of a "firing mode" where you randomly target multiple targets, but instead of doing what it does with boosting damage plus hitting multiple targets, it just targets multiple targets and its up to you using another skill like Overload or Surgical Strikes or maybe even Subsystem Targeting to combine it into a 2-skill required combo attack.
It would certainly make the game more dynamic,
I like this idea of them being more firing modes, than used abilities on both beam overload an fire at will. As you could say that using beam overload with a subsystem targeting might give a higher chance to knock out systems longer or leaving a debuff on the target after usage. Or that using beam fire at will with a subsystem targeting would apply it to all the hit targets (kinda seen tactical officers being able to target multi-systems). Though even just combining them back to back would work so long as it is qued up after the use of a beam overload or fire at will but not before it is used/duration ends it will be applied as well.
BFAW is very broken as it is right now. Just boot up BFAW and watch everything melt without having to use any real skills. This is most definetly not how an AOE attack with beams should work. It should never out DPS a beam overload and should have a longer cool down to reflect many shots in a brief period over heating the weapon systems. I hav e a thought how to reign in BFAW to prevent another round of DR mega HP npc's. On the locked on primary target full damage on the next closest target 75% damage, Third 50% and on targets not in the primary targets arc 60% on closest, 40% on the next, 30% on the final. As the focus of BFAW should be the primary target and those near it in the primary targets arc.
Careful here. As much as I am for nerfing BFAW, comparisions with Beam Overload can be misleading.
Beam Overload affects only a single beam - this might seem like a drawback, until you realize you can integrate a single Beam or Dual Beam Bank on a ship with non-beam weapons (cannons or torps) and use Beam Overload still to full effect.
This is not the most interesting option on a ship with a low number of tactical bridge officer skills, but if you have many, all the shared cooldowns between powers means that you might not normally be unable to use all of them at the same time. If you add in a single beam, you can now use another up to Lt.Cmdr level power and come out ahead to using another torp or cannon. cannon rapid fire or cannon scatter volley likely do not buff a single cannon as much as beam overload buffs a single beam.
Same thing is true for the torpedo and torpedo buffs.
For torpedo boats, the game is missing an all-torpedo launcher buff skill (something like "torpedo rapid fire" or "torpedo fire at will"). Kemocite might come closest to that, but it's packed away in a lockbox and costs ridicilious amounts of money.)
BFAW probably tries to do too many things at once. It's name implies something that takes a duration (unlike a high yield torpedo or a torpedo spread), but it's also interpreted as AoE. Removing AoE capability of BFAW however would leave a gap in beam buffs.
So, if we can't remove the AoE aspect of BFAW (and we really shouldn't), how about removing it being the best for single/small number of targets? Like say each beam can only hit a target for x cycles per BFAW activation. Or a target hit by BFAW cycle can't be hit by another BFAW cycled from the same beam for x time.
Then clicking it when there is only one enemy around makes you less effective. So it's suddenly a debuff for yourself, rather than a buff. That can't work either. While against a single target, High Yield Torped tends to be better than Torpedo Spread Torpedo Spread is still better against a single target then no Torpedo Spread.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
As i mentioned earlier, the stacking of powers is the main problem.
Therefor the easiest solution would have to be to not let attack pattern alpha and go down fighting interact with BFAW.
There is the solution.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Comments
Where one side gets to move its pawns like queens and their king takes two simultaneous checks to checkmate.
This power is useful against Iconian cheat spam.
Nerf that first!
An ability which does top single target and aoe damage and clears mines, torps, probes and fighters without even targetting an enemy.
Thanks to BFAW and keybinds the space bar morfed into the mythical I-win button.
That is quite simply wrong.
Touche... touche....
PS: I know this, but I fake anger to get a rise out of people for sport
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
On the downside one of their pieces has a chip in it. That totally needs to be addressed.
I'll admit, BFAW is totally under performing without the accuracy overflow.
"Taking" away from the playerbase is rarely a good idea for an MMO. DPS leagues in no way represent the bulk of casual players who often may only get through a mission -because- of FAW. Yes, elitists will say, "L2P!", but that's simply not realistic.
Baby-step improvements to cannons. Nobody has to 'lose' anything.
The rising tide approach leads to another DR, and contrary to popular belief, not all players loved it.
Best to cut the tall poppy and get on with life.
I run with quantums fore and aft. I just wish that torps were effective in draining shields.
I'm just saying that BFAW has made flying a cruiser as a Tac fun again. Long overdue.
This game as with any other is about having fun for me. It's a Star Trek game and it's feeling very "Trekkie" so I'm having fun.
The dps league sounds like a job. I already have a job.
The claim that canon ships running canon weapons are OP is hilarious to me.
That should be the definition of WAI.
P.S. Trek was all about caring for others beliefs and wishes... Right now... You're not!
My love of Trek is exactly what I bring to this thread.
My love of Trek and its essential elements.
I don't know what the sales figures are as far as ship class goes. I know what I see in sector space and in space battles in this game and I know that relegating the most beautiful and iconic class of ships in this game to the level of healing tank was dumb and foolishly limiting. I also know what it looks like when a cruiser swoops in and unleashes devastating beam blasts at multiple targets and I know that because I saw it long before this game existed on a show called Star Trek.
Buff what you will but please leave BFAW alone.
Live Long and BFAW !!!!!!!!!
This is a game and games need balance don't forget that cruisers, despite their power had a hard time hitting escort sized ships were always taking hits due to their size. Not only that, federation cruisers aren't warships, they carried weapons to defend themselves with not to wage war with.
Anyway i see NERF as
Never
Ever
Rework
Fire At Will
Haven't read through 7 pages of rants comments. Will do that when i have more time than a simple coffee break.
Is the problem with BFAW not the stacking of various powers like Attack pattern alpha, go down fighting and overcapping?
Therefor the easiest solution would have to be to not let attack pattern alpha and go down fighting interact with BFAW.
This suggestion will probably bring out a lynch mob of tactical players so I'll just hide go back to work.
No matter how unpopular, this would be the solution to the "One power to rule them all" scenario.
Some other things might be useful as well such as reducing the drop off effect on single cannons, DHC and turrets.
In addition, something must be thought up for DC since those are only used by those who cannon afford BA or DHC.
Much like many people don't think of Time To Kill as a dps metric and instead see only big numbers (while spending as long or longer to actually kill the mob) people don't think of the Time Per Zen and only see that they can get their 8k limit 20% faster and then complain about it taking 20% more Dil to get the same zen.
Beam Overload affects only a single beam - this might seem like a drawback, until you realize you can integrate a single Beam or Dual Beam Bank on a ship with non-beam weapons (cannons or torps) and use Beam Overload still to full effect.
This is not the most interesting option on a ship with a low number of tactical bridge officer skills, but if you have many, all the shared cooldowns between powers means that you might not normally be unable to use all of them at the same time. If you add in a single beam, you can now use another up to Lt.Cmdr level power and come out ahead to using another torp or cannon. cannon rapid fire or cannon scatter volley likely do not buff a single cannon as much as beam overload buffs a single beam.
Same thing is true for the torpedo and torpedo buffs.
For torpedo boats, the game is missing an all-torpedo launcher buff skill (something like "torpedo rapid fire" or "torpedo fire at will"). Kemocite might come closest to that, but it's packed away in a lockbox and costs ridicilious amounts of money.)
BFAW probably tries to do too many things at once. It's name implies something that takes a duration (unlike a high yield torpedo or a torpedo spread), but it's also interpreted as AoE. Removing AoE capability of BFAW however would leave a gap in beam buffs.
Turn BFAW into a "combination" skill. IE you can use it in conjunction with Surgical Strikes or Beam Overload or another skill.
IE FAW becomes more of a "firing mode" where you randomly target multiple targets, but instead of doing what it does with boosting damage plus hitting multiple targets, it just targets multiple targets and its up to you using another skill like Overload or Surgical Strikes or maybe even Subsystem Targeting to combine it into a 2-skill required combo attack.
It would certainly make the game more dynamic,
I agree torpedoes do need an all launcher type ability, even if it were a rework of how torp spread works making it function alot like how beam: fire at will does in ways. Such as that you fire your main spread from the launcher you activate the ability from, but than it would also fire an additional 1-3 torpedoes from each of the other launchers slotted on your ship (i would limit it to launchers of a similar type like photon, quantum, plasma, and so on), though these additional torps would be fired upon those ships within their range as well as firing arcs respectively. An this has been seen in star trek with ships firing a spread from both aft an fore torpedo launchers.
I would not mind seeing something like a torpedo ability that enhances the rate of fire, as well as the travel speed of your torpedoes while active, maybe as a form of toggle ability that lowers the damage of your torpedoes while it is active. This could also be done for beam: Overload as well. With that while toggled on it improves the critical chance an either the critical severity or damage output of your beam weapons, but also increases these beam weapon's power consumption, which I always have liked the idea of more power level management being rewarded.
Though another option is that beam: overload stays as it is now with giving a critical severity an damage buff, but that it also will diverts power from other slotted beam weapons to the main firing beam to additionally buff the damage of the weapon. This could be done that beam arrays give a 3-5% buff per array, while beam banks give a 6-9% buff per bank, which would actually make using a beam-overload still effective on cannon-type using ships yet also on beam array/bank using ships as well.
Now i will say that i do think beam: Fire at will needs to have a downside when being used on multi targets, just to compensate for how good it is on single targets as well. I do like the idea that it has full effect on the main target regardless of how many additional targets it fires on, but that for each additional target fired on beyond the main target it would have those shot's damage output reduced by 1-3% per target. At ten additional targets that would be a 30-50% drop on the damage output of those shots against the non-main targets, which is still effective an useful yet not nearly as impressive an powerful as it is currently. Though the issue with this might be the lag gained from the server having to check an update how many targets you are firing on, and apply that change to your beam fire at will attacks on them.
I like this idea of them being more firing modes, than used abilities on both beam overload an fire at will. As you could say that using beam overload with a subsystem targeting might give a higher chance to knock out systems longer or leaving a debuff on the target after usage. Or that using beam fire at will with a subsystem targeting would apply it to all the hit targets (kinda seen tactical officers being able to target multi-systems). Though even just combining them back to back would work so long as it is qued up after the use of a beam overload or fire at will but not before it is used/duration ends it will be applied as well.
There is the solution.