Our style of play is not disturbing yours. You are free to play any way you want. If your style of play is unsuccesful, that's not our problem. I'd recommend trying our style of play, but based on your previous statements I doubt you'd be receptive to that piece of advice. And the "set up a private queue" -advice has been given enough times already.
On the other hand, while your style of play is not (significantly) disturbing ours at the moment either, you are on these forums demanding that situation to be changed. Don't pretend to be a champion for freedom of choice here.
First: your style of play is hurting mine, because it depends on people playing the game. You may say it is my fault for depending on others but then again that is what team efforts are. And I am willing to adapt to what the team does. Everybody's out for the upgrading? I'll take rifts. Other people tank? I'll sneak in and do stuff. Other people sneak in? I'll jump right into the fray and tank as many as possible.
Then: I am not pretending to be a champion of freedom of choice. As it stands, we have two differing opinions on this. Playing or waiting out. Neither can force the other technically to do what they do. But I do think that this is an issue that goes to the heart of MMO play, namely that you should be doing multiplayer, not doing "your thing" because it is more convenient. And yes, I do think it would be nice if that could be made impossible by mechanisms of the game, so yes, I am actually calling for action against a play style I am having no power to stop. And I DO think that the moment some people are doing stuff that is detrimental to the good of the whole, there should be a way to stop that. Freedom of choice, if we wanted to take it to a social level, has its boundaries where other freedoms are affected and diminished.
Almost lastly, and following from that: I know that I can avoid this with private queues. But I do not think it is my task to do so. I do not think I will have to avoid public playing just to be able to play.
Lastly: yes, you are right, I am not receptive to your advice of playing like you do. Because if I wanted to wait for 10 minutes doing nothing, I'd go to the bus stop right in front of my house. That's not what I am here for.
Please don't confuse 'masterful inaction' with 'not playing'
Masterful? Really? I mean I get the "I am too lazy to do stuff" (understand it, not agree with it), but that's not entirely something that needs an Einstein.
I can't increase the efficiency of my team, because they're not actually mine to command. I could just tell them it's more efficient to wait out phase 1 and odds are some of them didn't know that. But most of them would either ignore my advice or respond with some juvenile insults, so why bother?
If at the very least it would be "more efficient". But it is not. Playing the queue will give you more than waiting it out. Again, the disadvantages from a (possible) drop in station health are easily outdone by what you can get from closing rifts and upping the station. But I cannot state this enough, this is not about "what nets more".
Also, as stated above: having a "one size fits all" strategy is the first step to doom when you're doing stuff. You will have to adapt to what happens in your surroundings. Even if you were right that from the start "doing nothing" would net more rewards, which you are not, the moment you realize that some player are leeroyjenkinsing it, you need to adapt. And that is, again, without any regard to the reason why people play a game, namely playing it. Sticking to a set strategy no matter what the circumstances - there is a quote which I'll subscribe to: "Battle plans never survive contact with the enemy".
THIS. Most of us are running this TRIBBLE multiple times per day on as many characters as we can force ourselves to slog through and the goal is the completion award, no more and no less. We don't care about the small difference in marks, we can make that up in five minutes on a mission we actually enjoy. Mirror event is just about getting through the damned thing as painlessly as possible. OP doesn't seem to get it.
Again, I am not talking about the "difference in marks". And again: why does your decision to do stuff you are not interested in have to diminish my enjoyment of the game? As you said, you force yourself, nobody else does, least of all me and the other players, so why should it be to our disadvantage?
cOnsi, you are so full of TRIBBLE I can smell it through the screen. People play Mirror Invasion for one reason and one reason only, to get the completion tokens and thus the rewards for doing it all 14 times. As a mission in and of itself, it rewards nothing that cannot be gotten more quickly, easily, and more enjoyably other places. Everyone is there for the completion token, everything else is extra.
Everybody? Did you ask everybody? And what is "enjoyable" may differ a lot on the player. I actually would really enjoy the mission if they did away with the time limit. As it stands I'd consider it a "meh". But I wouldn't play missions I don't want - I skipped the last anniversary event for most of the time because I just found it to be no fun at all. (And I love your personal attack by the way, way to make a point)
So, it's perfectly acceptable in my mind and in the minds of many other players IF NOT MOST
Again, did you ask people? After all, despite all of my complaints, most people are still playing the queue for what it is. Yes, there is a measurable fraction of players who play for the reward and the reward only. But your assertion that is somhow a majority seems highly questionable to me.
If you want to do it differently, maximizing effort for minimum reward despite that making little sense from an objective standpoint, organize a private queue. Have fun, knock yourself out fighting your TRIBBLE off for 10 minutes against a never ending supply of enemies. Leave the rest of us the hell out of it.
You may want to look up the meaning of "objective". Also, if the supply of enemies was "never ending", other complaints about waiting times would be silly, wouldn't they? And to repeat it once again: for a select few of us, the idea of playing a game is "playing the game", not counting some rewards against some effort which you could calculate one way or the other.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
i like to fight but last night i actually had to AFK a mirror invasion not that it was by choice 3 players with kemocite weapons went postal and before me and this BoP could even get close to the nastys they had killed them and moved on.
So i just gave up and went AFK for the rest of the STF i mean if ther isnt an enemy to fight when i get there what am i doing trying to get into the fray.
How about they just make a THIRD queue just for AFKers. Then they can go there and leave the players that want to try alone. Honestly, Cryptic isn't going to do diddly about AFKers, so just give in and give them their own queue. No ships spawn, nothing happens. Just a 15 minute timer so the event lasts the same as the real event. Give them the least amount of marks and the Rep item.
AND if you could make it to where I can run 5 alts at a time in the AFKer queue, that would be awesome too!
Or, the players who want to try, could... you know, seek out like minded players and form a private queue, rather than trying to insist/force everyone else to play the way they want.
People who go AFK don't force others to play the way they want to. If someone on your team is AFK, you still have the choice to 'try' during the first phase if you wish. Them being AFK is not stopping you from doing so. As an example, I actually tried this - I gathered up four other players and we agreed they would sit AFK whilst I soloed the rifts/Defenses. On normal I managed 15 rifts, all 5 levels and 10/10 Starbase, and bagged the Dreadnaught during the timer. So its definitely possible without forcing others to play the way that you wish.
Even if you get a full team of people who want to play it in the style you prefer, that is no guarantee they will be any use. I have seen someone duel with a cruiser for 4minutes straight, barely ticking it. On the other hand, I have seen one guy who was AFK, but killed the dreadnaught in about 10seconds once he got started. Who is helping more in this instance?
6. Respawning doesn't take 5 min. If a person who has died takes more than a minute to return, guess what you have an afk/lazy person on your team.
With a bad connection it can. In the last CCE, I drifted into the crystal entity and exploded, and spent the rest of the match clicking the "respawn" button, which did nothing. I finally rezzed after it had exploded and people were warping out.
1. All leave a match with an afker. They want to sit and wait to collect their bounty, make them then wait the entire match, all 15min plus cutscene time and get very little marks. Sure it might mean you have to spend that time a second time, but feel assured, they won't get the reward as large as they thought.
Actually, we'll get exactly the reward we thought: ONE MIRROR THINGUMMY. So go ahead: Leave. You'll just be stuck in this Kafkaesque charade for even longer.
Ok...as much as at times I disagree with you in game, I think we are of one mind about Mirror AFK, and your posts also entertaining. *golf clap*
I can't increase the efficiency of my team, because they're not actually mine to command. I could just tell them it's more efficient to wait out phase 1 and odds are some of them didn't know that. But most of them would either ignore my advice or respond with some juvenile insults, so why bother?
If at the very least it would be "more efficient". But it is not. Playing the queue will give you more than waiting it out. Again, the disadvantages from a (possible) drop in station health are easily outdone by what you can get from closing rifts and upping the station. But I cannot state this enough, this is not about "what nets more".
Oh. Looks like I have to quote the dictionary again.
efficiency
[ih-fish-uh n-see]
noun, plural efficiencies.
1. the state or quality of being efficient, or able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; competency in performance.
2. accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort.
3. the ratio of the work done or energy developed by a machine, engine, etc., to the energy supplied to it, usually expressed as a percentage.
Since time to complete phase 1 is fixed and unaffected by player action, completing the phase with the minimum effort is definitely more efficient than working like crazy to get a few extra peanuts added to the end reward.
I'm surprised there isn't a big public AFK channel for this so the ones exploiting the queue can do it without annoying everyone else trying to play it as designed and intended.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Forced grouping to obtain a reward is a design error. Players trying to punish other players for a design error leads to exactly the sort of drama that causes many solo players to eschew group content in the first place. If there's a violation of the Terms of Service, report it; otherwise, get yourself some nice brie to go with that vintage whine, because your bitter tears fall on barren soil.
OMG, someone isn't playing the game they way I want them to! This is an outrage! They must be punished!
Get over it
EDIT: I would also advise against encouraging people to 'name and shame', as this is a bannable offense
This post is full of awesomeness. Now to the OP
Not everyone can play 20 hours a day, and some players only can play 1 hour a day or less, specially if you have a family and work, why do you criticize them because they dont have a full T-6 armed with the latest spiffy and bling bling things that the STO 20 hours a day player have? So we who cant afford the most expensive things dont have the right to play the game?
Get down from your mighty ELITIST HORSE.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Does this subject truly matter, do AFK'ers really matter?
I'm not one of them btw, i think I'm a good teamate. I know it can be annoying having someone ride your coattails getting the same reward as you for nothing, while you do all the hard work.
But it lasts the same, you get your prize at the end, whats the diff.
I'm surprised there isn't a big public AFK channel for this so the ones exploiting the queue can do it without annoying everyone else trying to play it as designed and intended.
Actually some channels do have people who do that in them.
It's certainly better than doing it in PUGs. I actually don't see many people AFK the first part in PUGs. I often see people who suck, but that's a different problem.
Maybe these events should do like WoW does for dungeons, to play Elite you must have x amount of points, for advanced x amount of points for regular/easy everyone is welcome.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
In all the 65 or so times I played this, we never had an AFKer. I thought maybe one time but the person who wasn't moving was at the Station for a few minutes during some of the early skirmishes, but then 'woke up' and went into battle.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I noticed several AFKers while running this event. Sure, it is kind of annoying but what I was more annoyed by was the time gated STF itself. Time gated content isn't fun and people only play it to get the rewards. Those queues pretty much die after the players get what they need.
I do really feel bad for the devs who spend a ton of time and effort putting together stfs under the more resent time gate everything policy. If I were them, I would feel like my effort has largely been wasted after watching the queue numbers shrink to almost nothing.
[quote="8. They think they can play hide and seek by hiding behind a power relay. I have several, well mods would erase what I would call them, so I have to use the word, not so sly as they think they are, captains, who will hide behind a relay for a match. Once again a dead giveaway since in most cases you can't activate the relay from behind it..[/quote]
This is not true. You can activate the power relay if you stick the nose of your ship directly into the center round spot of the dish from behind. This also gives you the advantage of being behind the dish thus making you untargetable by mirror ships in front of it thus giving you a chance to fire the dish up when things are hot.
Further, players have been wrongfully accused and punished as a result because teams who came in that decided they were in charge of everyone eleses movement falsely claimed someone AFK because they didn't approve of another players actions. All the while they were busy with rifts the dishes never got activated and those players who went straight for those dishes and stayed on them, even closing rifts that appeared local to their position, were the only ones to make it happen. Yet, they were falsely accused.
Comments
First: your style of play is hurting mine, because it depends on people playing the game. You may say it is my fault for depending on others but then again that is what team efforts are. And I am willing to adapt to what the team does. Everybody's out for the upgrading? I'll take rifts. Other people tank? I'll sneak in and do stuff. Other people sneak in? I'll jump right into the fray and tank as many as possible.
Then: I am not pretending to be a champion of freedom of choice. As it stands, we have two differing opinions on this. Playing or waiting out. Neither can force the other technically to do what they do. But I do think that this is an issue that goes to the heart of MMO play, namely that you should be doing multiplayer, not doing "your thing" because it is more convenient. And yes, I do think it would be nice if that could be made impossible by mechanisms of the game, so yes, I am actually calling for action against a play style I am having no power to stop. And I DO think that the moment some people are doing stuff that is detrimental to the good of the whole, there should be a way to stop that. Freedom of choice, if we wanted to take it to a social level, has its boundaries where other freedoms are affected and diminished.
Almost lastly, and following from that: I know that I can avoid this with private queues. But I do not think it is my task to do so. I do not think I will have to avoid public playing just to be able to play.
Lastly: yes, you are right, I am not receptive to your advice of playing like you do. Because if I wanted to wait for 10 minutes doing nothing, I'd go to the bus stop right in front of my house. That's not what I am here for.
Masterful? Really? I mean I get the "I am too lazy to do stuff" (understand it, not agree with it), but that's not entirely something that needs an Einstein.
If at the very least it would be "more efficient". But it is not. Playing the queue will give you more than waiting it out. Again, the disadvantages from a (possible) drop in station health are easily outdone by what you can get from closing rifts and upping the station. But I cannot state this enough, this is not about "what nets more".
Also, as stated above: having a "one size fits all" strategy is the first step to doom when you're doing stuff. You will have to adapt to what happens in your surroundings. Even if you were right that from the start "doing nothing" would net more rewards, which you are not, the moment you realize that some player are leeroyjenkinsing it, you need to adapt. And that is, again, without any regard to the reason why people play a game, namely playing it. Sticking to a set strategy no matter what the circumstances - there is a quote which I'll subscribe to: "Battle plans never survive contact with the enemy".
Again, I am not talking about the "difference in marks". And again: why does your decision to do stuff you are not interested in have to diminish my enjoyment of the game? As you said, you force yourself, nobody else does, least of all me and the other players, so why should it be to our disadvantage?
Everybody? Did you ask everybody? And what is "enjoyable" may differ a lot on the player. I actually would really enjoy the mission if they did away with the time limit. As it stands I'd consider it a "meh". But I wouldn't play missions I don't want - I skipped the last anniversary event for most of the time because I just found it to be no fun at all. (And I love your personal attack by the way, way to make a point)
Again, did you ask people? After all, despite all of my complaints, most people are still playing the queue for what it is. Yes, there is a measurable fraction of players who play for the reward and the reward only. But your assertion that is somhow a majority seems highly questionable to me.
You may want to look up the meaning of "objective". Also, if the supply of enemies was "never ending", other complaints about waiting times would be silly, wouldn't they? And to repeat it once again: for a select few of us, the idea of playing a game is "playing the game", not counting some rewards against some effort which you could calculate one way or the other.
So i just gave up and went AFK for the rest of the STF i mean if ther isnt an enemy to fight when i get there what am i doing trying to get into the fray.
AND if you could make it to where I can run 5 alts at a time in the AFKer queue, that would be awesome too!
People who go AFK don't force others to play the way they want to. If someone on your team is AFK, you still have the choice to 'try' during the first phase if you wish. Them being AFK is not stopping you from doing so. As an example, I actually tried this - I gathered up four other players and we agreed they would sit AFK whilst I soloed the rifts/Defenses. On normal I managed 15 rifts, all 5 levels and 10/10 Starbase, and bagged the Dreadnaught during the timer. So its definitely possible without forcing others to play the way that you wish.
Even if you get a full team of people who want to play it in the style you prefer, that is no guarantee they will be any use. I have seen someone duel with a cruiser for 4minutes straight, barely ticking it. On the other hand, I have seen one guy who was AFK, but killed the dreadnaught in about 10seconds once he got started. Who is helping more in this instance?
With a bad connection it can. In the last CCE, I drifted into the crystal entity and exploded, and spent the rest of the match clicking the "respawn" button, which did nothing. I finally rezzed after it had exploded and people were warping out.
Ok...as much as at times I disagree with you in game, I think we are of one mind about Mirror AFK, and your posts also entertaining. *golf clap*
Oh. Looks like I have to quote the dictionary again. Since time to complete phase 1 is fixed and unaffected by player action, completing the phase with the minimum effort is definitely more efficient than working like crazy to get a few extra peanuts added to the end reward.
This post is full of awesomeness. Now to the OP
Not everyone can play 20 hours a day, and some players only can play 1 hour a day or less, specially if you have a family and work, why do you criticize them because they dont have a full T-6 armed with the latest spiffy and bling bling things that the STO 20 hours a day player have? So we who cant afford the most expensive things dont have the right to play the game?
Get down from your mighty ELITIST HORSE.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Does this subject truly matter, do AFK'ers really matter?
I'm not one of them btw, i think I'm a good teamate.
I know it can be annoying having someone ride your coattails getting the same reward as you for nothing, while you do all the hard work.
But it lasts the same, you get your prize at the end, whats the diff.
It's certainly better than doing it in PUGs. I actually don't see many people AFK the first part in PUGs. I often see people who suck, but that's a different problem.
My character Tsin'xing
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Yoda would have something to say about 'trying'.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I do really feel bad for the devs who spend a ton of time and effort putting together stfs under the more resent time gate everything policy. If I were them, I would feel like my effort has largely been wasted after watching the queue numbers shrink to almost nothing.
Founder and Current CO of Gamma Strike Force
Player since December 2009
This is not true. You can activate the power relay if you stick the nose of your ship directly into the center round spot of the dish from behind. This also gives you the advantage of being behind the dish thus making you untargetable by mirror ships in front of it thus giving you a chance to fire the dish up when things are hot.
Further, players have been wrongfully accused and punished as a result because teams who came in that decided they were in charge of everyone eleses movement falsely claimed someone AFK because they didn't approve of another players actions. All the while they were busy with rifts the dishes never got activated and those players who went straight for those dishes and stayed on them, even closing rifts that appeared local to their position, were the only ones to make it happen. Yet, they were falsely accused.