Now the pace is slowed to 1/4 of that (and we're bribed to repeat and repeat and repeat by weekly rewards), because of an excessive and expensive dependency on voice acting instead of gameplay. The last episode that had Seven of Nine in it (for example) had her talking to two other NPCs, and she (and they) didn't even acknowledge you (the senior officer) when you walked in! Not one word was said by any of them to you, you were simply ignored and got to stand there with NO pretense of interactivity!
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Now the pace is slowed to 1/4 of that (and we're bribed to repeat and repeat and repeat by weekly rewards), because of an excessive and expensive dependency on voice acting instead of gameplay. The last episode that had Seven of Nine in it (for example) had her talking to two other NPCs, and she (and they) didn't even acknowledge you (the senior officer) when you walked in! Not one word was said by any of them to you, you were simply ignored and got to stand there with NO pretense of interactivity!
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Since Delta Rising and staring in November, Cryptic has released 9 missions. On average 1 mission per month so far, and I think we have probably at least two more episodes ahead of us. (I doubt we will win the war in the next mission.)
Each featured episode mission featured 5 full missions (the Romulan one also had a closer mission that was just some final dialog.). I think the FEs did release weekly (at least most of the time), but there wasn't actually more content than now. They just scheduled the release differently.
The monthly release with the "reward bribe" is probably much better for player retention, because you don't have months without new content...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Undine: Only really interested in being left alone. I don't recall them 'promising to help' - only acknowledgement that they were tricked/manipulated. They would undoubtedly fight if Iconians started popping up in Fluidic space, but otherwise lack the motivation or incentive to involve themselves in what is happening in 'our' space.
Borg: Not in the best shape thanks to repeated defeat at the Alliance's 'hands', and if they were to fight against the Iconians/Herald it certainly wouldn't be to aid us. Not to mention that we KNOW they'd stab us in the back at the first oportunity.
Tholians: Now this is an interesting one. In the context of the war we haven't really seen them beyond a few dead ones on New Romulus. So we do know that whatever their overall goal on New Romulus was, the Herald put an end to it. What we don't know is how they reacted to this, although since we haven't seen them (in the context of the war) it's probably fair to assume that they've adopted their usual 'protect their own territory' stance.
Given the Borg's unparalleled recuperative/regenerative abilities, they should still have a sizable fleet, whereas everyone else's regenerative ability is much smaller. In theory, this means they should still be too much for Starfleet to handle, but we are ignoring that point. Regardless, they would turn on you the minute they didn't need you, and that doesn't make for very good cooperation.
The Tholians are interesting, as we don't really know their status.
What I am interested in though, is the Dominion. We know that their, (at least in the context of canon), technology is quite advanced, as in the beginning of the Dominion War, unmodified federation shields were unable to withstand their weapons, and that their transporter technology was equally advanced. I can't believe that they haven't advanced their tech since then, and I also don't believe the Iconians will stop at the alpha/beta quadrants. Actually, in Sphere of Influence, there were plans in place to take the Gamma Quadrant after the Alpha and Beta were secure. The Dominion has as much to lose as Starfleet does. I'm interested what Sela's doing. Reaching Tier 1 or 2 in the Resistance Rep, I believe, has her telling you she's looking for allies in some far off place she used to be. That should be interesting.
The Vaadwaur acquired powerful enough technology to cleanse entire solar systems that were completely taken over by the Borg. That's some serious pwning. That's why Hugh had the chance to jump and - with our assistance - sever some severely damaged ships from the Collective.
About us fighting the Borg:
Task Force Omega fought the Borg invasion to a standstill, but as the Borg conference on DS9 established it: despite the successful operations, it was a losing fight.
If the Borg had not tangled with the Voth and the Undine, and if the Vaadwaur hadn't shown up to start their cleanup for the Iconians, we would've been eventually overrun. Now, they've suffered several major setbacks, and are being pushed back. And I think the Queen's defeat in "Into the Hive" and then in "Hive Onslaught" were gambles. Surgical strikes with very high stakes.
In Borg Disconnected, the Queen vows that "The Collective will not fall here".
I think they will continue to be pushed back, and any alliance with them would be temporary (or "futile", as they put it), because they turn on you the second the immediate threat is over. And if they assimilate technology from our enemies... they might be able to pull a comeback on us.
About the tholians: Yeah we don't exactly know where they stand on this, but from the New Dawn trailer, they'll be getting some more screentime. Hopefully some episodes too, so people can place them.
And yes I believe, naturally, the Dominion spent most of its time recovering after the Dominion War, but we don't know what the Founders make of all this. Aside from the changeling we released from facility 4028, we had no contact with gamma quadrant founders whatsoever.
Yes, we have the Hundred in the New Link on our side of the wormhole that Laas gathered, but they wish to be left in peace. So we don't know what's up with the Great Link. It could've been destroyed for all we know, and the Dominion has been flying on "passive autopilot" since then.
However, the modified "Gamma Jem'Hadar" that Eraun brings along for the visit on facilty 4028 suggests that the Founders are alive and well, and they've made a few advancements to their armies.
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Very true.
My real argument though, is not so much about the release schedule, as about the content. They pay for the star VO talent, and then (reasonably enough) give them reams and reams of monologues or dialogues with each other. What this means, though, is that the player is left for huge chunks of time as a passive observer, and then we get our orders. From a subordinate. Because by this point in the game (aside from the temporary-access-for-level-10-initial-release) the player characters are all level 60 Fleet Admirals/Dahar Masters, and thus outrank virtually everyone else! These crappy lieutenants, captains, admirals and generals should be submitting reports and kissing our butts, instead of slinging insubordination, sarcasm and orders our way.
We outrank Captain Kim, Admiral Tuvok, and the Doctor. We outrank Admiral Kererak, Admiral Quinn, Captain Kagran, and all the other "mission givers". In fact, about the only people we've met whom we don't outrank are Chancellor J'mpok, Proconsul D'Tan, Empress Sela, Empress Taris, the female Changeling, and the Borg Queen. We haven't met the President of the Federation yet, or the members of the Federation Council, but they are the only ones who would be left on the FED side who would outrank us. Basically, if you aren't the de facto ruler of an interstellar civilization, we outrank you, and you have no business giving us orders. You may ask for our help, or report your findings to us and await our judgment; but give us any backchat, and you'll find yourself in a hellhole that makes Rura Penthe look like the tea room at the Savoy Hotel fast enough to make your head spin! We should be treated with overwhelming respect and deference by the NPC's we meet, and instead we're ordered about, talked down to, or flat out ignored!
[*breathes*]
Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic:
These Tales are great, and really should be collected on a pad as an in-game reward for the last episode of the war.
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Very true.
My real argument though, is not so much about the release schedule, as about the content. They pay for the star VO talent, and then (reasonably enough) give them reams and reams of monologues or dialogues with each other. What this means, though, is that the player is left for huge chunks of time as a passive observer, and then we get our orders. From a subordinate. Because by this point in the game (aside from the temporary-access-for-level-10-initial-release) the player characters are all level 60 Fleet Admirals/Dahar Masters, and thus outrank virtually everyone else! These crappy lieutenants, captains, admirals and generals should be submitting reports and kissing our butts, instead of slinging insubordination, sarcasm and orders our way.
We outrank Captain Kim, Admiral Tuvok, and the Doctor. We outrank Admiral Kererak, Admiral Quinn, Captain Kagran, and all the other "mission givers". In fact, about the only people we've met whom we don't outrank are Chancellor J'mpok, Proconsul D'Tan, Empress Sela, Empress Taris, the female Changeling, and the Borg Queen. We haven't met the President of the Federation yet, or the members of the Federation Council, but they are the only ones who would be left on the FED side who would outrank us. Basically, if you aren't the de facto ruler of an interstellar civilization, we outrank you, and you have no business giving us orders. You may ask for our help, or report your findings to us and await our judgment; but give us any backchat, and you'll find yourself in a hellhole that makes Rura Penthe look like the tea room at the Savoy Hotel fast enough to make your head spin! We should be treated with overwhelming respect and deference by the NPC's we meet, and instead we're ordered about, talked down to, or flat out ignored!
[*breathes*]
Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic:
These Tales are great, and really should be collected on a pad as an in-game reward for the last episode of the war.
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Very true.
My real argument though, is not so much about the release schedule, as about the content. They pay for the star VO talent, and then (reasonably enough) give them reams and reams of monologues or dialogues with each other. What this means, though, is that the player is left for huge chunks of time as a passive observer, and then we get our orders. From a subordinate. Because by this point in the game (aside from the temporary-access-for-level-10-initial-release) the player characters are all level 60 Fleet Admirals/Dahar Masters, and thus outrank virtually everyone else! These crappy lieutenants, captains, admirals and generals should be submitting reports and kissing our butts, instead of slinging insubordination, sarcasm and orders our way.
We outrank Captain Kim, Admiral Tuvok, and the Doctor. We outrank Admiral Kererak, Admiral Quinn, Captain Kagran, and all the other "mission givers". In fact, about the only people we've met whom we don't outrank are Chancellor J'mpok, Proconsul D'Tan, Empress Sela, Empress Taris, the female Changeling, and the Borg Queen. We haven't met the President of the Federation yet, or the members of the Federation Council, but they are the only ones who would be left on the FED side who would outrank us. Basically, if you aren't the de facto ruler of an interstellar civilization, we outrank you, and you have no business giving us orders. You may ask for our help, or report your findings to us and await our judgment; but give us any backchat, and you'll find yourself in a hellhole that makes Rura Penthe look like the tea room at the Savoy Hotel fast enough to make your head spin! We should be treated with overwhelming respect and deference by the NPC's we meet, and instead we're ordered about, talked down to, or flat out ignored!
[*breathes*]
Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic:
These Tales are great, and really should be collected on a pad as an in-game reward for the last episode of the war.
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
Which doesn't make it any less stupid that Star Trek Online is top-heavy with O-11s.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Very true.
My real argument though, is not so much about the release schedule, as about the content. They pay for the star VO talent, and then (reasonably enough) give them reams and reams of monologues or dialogues with each other. What this means, though, is that the player is left for huge chunks of time as a passive observer, and then we get our orders. From a subordinate. Because by this point in the game (aside from the temporary-access-for-level-10-initial-release) the player characters are all level 60 Fleet Admirals/Dahar Masters, and thus outrank virtually everyone else! These crappy lieutenants, captains, admirals and generals should be submitting reports and kissing our butts, instead of slinging insubordination, sarcasm and orders our way.
We outrank Captain Kim, Admiral Tuvok, and the Doctor. We outrank Admiral Kererak, Admiral Quinn, Captain Kagran, and all the other "mission givers". In fact, about the only people we've met whom we don't outrank are Chancellor J'mpok, Proconsul D'Tan, Empress Sela, Empress Taris, the female Changeling, and the Borg Queen. We haven't met the President of the Federation yet, or the members of the Federation Council, but they are the only ones who would be left on the FED side who would outrank us. Basically, if you aren't the de facto ruler of an interstellar civilization, we outrank you, and you have no business giving us orders. You may ask for our help, or report your findings to us and await our judgment; but give us any backchat, and you'll find yourself in a hellhole that makes Rura Penthe look like the tea room at the Savoy Hotel fast enough to make your head spin! We should be treated with overwhelming respect and deference by the NPC's we meet, and instead we're ordered about, talked down to, or flat out ignored!
[*breathes*]
Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic:
These Tales are great, and really should be collected on a pad as an in-game reward for the last episode of the war.
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
Which doesn't make it any less stupid that Star Trek Online is top-heavy with O-11s.
Even if we assume that each alt we have is essentially their own universe, it still doesn't explain why in the later missions we are almost never treated according to our rank...AND proven competence, compared to some of these others. (Even when we're handed the idiot ball by the game, at least we get the job done, compared to certain others...i.e. Kagran.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Well, other than addressing you by rank, what can they do to make your rank relevant? You're not going to be making any real decisions, just following orders....
Is it just me, or does Doctor Harza-Kull seem a lot like The Doctor from Voyager?
I'm guessing we weren't dealing with a Klingon. I don't know what kind of tone a Lethean, a Ferasan or even a Nausicaan would hit in a situation like that, sooo... my guess: Orion (or an Alien if we look at all the angles ^^).
Harza-Kull is an Orion. But considering he only has an actual speaking role in "Day of Honor", which they didn't run this year because they were too busy deciding how to mimic VOY by turning their major story arc into a bad joke, I can see how folks might not have recognized him.
To everyone who voted for VOY when they were deciding which show to use as the basis of expansion #2: You have only yourselves to blame. DS9 FOREVER!
I had no say as to which show provided to any expansion, but all the Star Trek TV series/movies deserve some love.
Well, other than addressing you by rank, what can they do to make your rank relevant? You're not going to be making any real decisions, just following orders....
My point exactly. If they weren't prepared to make the rank relevant by taking us out of the command chair and having us directing fleets, they shouldn't have given it to us to begin with.
The hero rank of Star Trek is commander or captain. Admirals and generals are quest-givers and corrupt opponents.
Is it just me, or does Doctor Harza-Kull seem a lot like The Doctor from Voyager?
I'm guessing we weren't dealing with a Klingon. I don't know what kind of tone a Lethean, a Ferasan or even a Nausicaan would hit in a situation like that, sooo... my guess: Orion (or an Alien if we look at all the angles ^^).
Harza-Kull is an Orion. But considering he only has an actual speaking role in "Day of Honor", which they didn't run this year because they were too busy deciding how to mimic VOY by turning their major story arc into a bad joke, I can see how folks might not have recognized him.
To everyone who voted for VOY when they were deciding which show to use as the basis of expansion #2: You have only yourselves to blame. DS9 FOREVER!
I had no say as to which show provided to any expansion, but all the Star Trek TV series/movies deserve some love.
Oh, right, the show whose protagonist commits treason against the Federation on the word of a space pixie and gets away with it deserves love, riiiiight. Ditto ENT, with its racist idiot of a captain who prioritizes his dog over getting mission-critical parts, and who committed genocide based on a blatant misrepresentation of evolution.
TRIBBLE VOY, and TRIBBLE ENT.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're missing my points.
1) This level of "under orders otherwise" (to use your phrase) is tantamount to Eisenhower or Nimitz (at their highest - Five Star - rank) being given orders by a Major or a Captain. Taking it to this extreme is patently absurd - in any service. Basically, what I'm saying is that our characters at end game are at Julius Caesar levels of importance, power and prestige. Treat them as such.
2) In Starfleet in particular (from what's been shown on screen), being the ranking officer gives you the automatic authority to assume command in the field. Examples exist in the shows from TOS onward. Only proving the superior officer insane seems to be a viable defense.
3) Excluding the special case of a lower-ranked Tal Shiar officer (Troi) assuming command from a higher ranked naval officer (or the more extreme case of Klingon Promotion - which is basically institutionalized mutiny), we have no clear canon examples of subordinates ordering superiors (as in these cases) from the Klingons or Romulans. Superior ranks give orders, lower ranks obey. And subordinates can even be shot at their posts by their captains for getting a "lucky shot" against orders.
4) Most importantly though, what I'm trying to get across is that spending 90% of the mission in NPC cutscenes (where we are frequently ignored or marginalized) is simply an example of poor writing and poor game design. In ANY RPG (MMO, single player, or paper and pencil), the Player Character should be the focus/hero of the story. We're not reading a book or watching a movie about other people, we're supposed to BE the protagonist in a game. But lately, the writing has been all about showing off the NPC's with voiceover, while the Player Character is treated as the audience, instead of as the central character.
This is akin to staging a production of Hamlet, and giving Rosencrantz and Guildenstern all the soliloquies. And THEN they tell Hamlet to go dig Ophelia's grave.
2) In Starfleet in particular (from what's been shown on screen), being the ranking officer gives you the automatic authority to assume command in the field. Examples exist in the shows from TOS onward. Only proving the superior officer insane seems to be a viable defense.
Technically, I suppose, Kirk didn't actually prove Decker insane before invoking his "personal authority as captain of the Enterprise" to relieve Decker from command, but Decker's evident instability did probably help it slide, and of course that was a captain and a commodore, not a captain and a fleet admiral.
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're missing my points.
1) This level of "under orders otherwise" (to use your phrase) is tantamount to Eisenhower or Nimitz (at their highest - Five Star - rank) being given orders by a Major or a Captain. Taking it to this extreme is patently absurd - in any service. Basically, what I'm saying is that our characters at end game are at Julius Caesar levels of importance, power and prestige. Treat them as such.
2) In Starfleet in particular (from what's been shown on screen), being the ranking officer gives you the automatic authority to assume command in the field. Examples exist in the shows from TOS onward. Only proving the superior officer insane seems to be a viable defense.
REALLY? Ok... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! New Ground(TNG) Picard is ordered to take the Enterprise to assist in experiments involving a new method of space travel. the person conducting the experiments isn't even Starfleet, but Picard does what they tell him to do. Why? Because it's his job as a Starfleet officer.
4) Most importantly though, what I'm trying to get across is that spending 90% of the mission in NPC cutscenes (where we are frequently ignored or marginalized) is simply an example of poor writing and poor game design. In ANY RPG (MMO, single player, or paper and pencil), the Player Character should be the focus/hero of the story. We're not reading a book or watching a movie about other people, we're supposed to BE the protagonist in a game. But lately, the writing has been all about showing off the NPC's with voiceover, while the Player Character is treated as the audience, instead of as the central character.
This is an MMO, the only way to do that is for the devs to write what your character says.... needless to say with the diverse array of characters you can have that is problematic.
You seem to lack a proper understanding of how military ranks work. The highest rank is only in charge by default when not under orders otherwise. Which seems to be the case when we play story missions.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're missing my points.
1) This level of "under orders otherwise" (to use your phrase) is tantamount to Eisenhower or Nimitz (at their highest - Five Star - rank) being given orders by a Major or a Captain. Taking it to this extreme is patently absurd - in any service. Basically, what I'm saying is that our characters at end game are at Julius Caesar levels of importance, power and prestige. Treat them as such.
2) In Starfleet in particular (from what's been shown on screen), being the ranking officer gives you the automatic authority to assume command in the field. Examples exist in the shows from TOS onward. Only proving the superior officer insane seems to be a viable defense.
REALLY? Ok... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! New Ground(TNG) Picard is ordered to take the Enterprise to assist in experiments involving a new method of space travel. the person conducting the experiments isn't even Starfleet, but Picard does what they tell him to do. Why? Because it's his job as a Starfleet officer.
So, in other words, his orders from his legitimate superiors are to follow this civilian's directions within said civilian's area of expertise. That does not invalidate the point that it is flatly ridiculous for a fleet admiral, the highest possible rank in the system, underline, to routinely be taking orders from an O-5.
Now, there are specific circumstances where this would not be the case. The current Surgeon General of the Army is a nursing officer who was in the Pentagon on 9/11 and took charge of things before emergency services arrived. This included a three-star asking her why she was giving him orders; she responds, "Sir, I'm a nurse," and he goes, "OK, carry on." And of course we can't forget Maxim 3: "An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
But in STO, these circumstances are almost never present. Outside of Jorel Quinn and Admiral Kererek, mission givers are almost never ranked properly for the authority they're given (A subcommander in charge of the entire Dyson Sphere? Seriously? A captain in command of the entire Alliance war effort? Bullsh*t!), and treat the player characters like totally green ensigns despite being outranked by several grades, and often even giving them tasks that should rightly be given to junior enlisted.
Let me also remind you that disrespect to a superior officer is a court-martialable offense.
4) Most importantly though, what I'm trying to get across is that spending 90% of the mission in NPC cutscenes (where we are frequently ignored or marginalized) is simply an example of poor writing and poor game design. In ANY RPG (MMO, single player, or paper and pencil), the Player Character should be the focus/hero of the story. We're not reading a book or watching a movie about other people, we're supposed to BE the protagonist in a game. But lately, the writing has been all about showing off the NPC's with voiceover, while the Player Character is treated as the audience, instead of as the central character.
This is an MMO, the only way to do that is for the devs to write what your character says.... needless to say with the diverse array of characters you can have that is problematic.
That's not what he's saying. He's saying they're marginalizing the PC in favor of their guest stars. Sorry, Tuvok, Harry Kim, and Dr. Hansen, you may have been the only remotely competent people on Voyager but your story ended 30 years ago. This is my story.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't really understand the ranks of some of the NPCs. As StarSword mentioned - why wouldn't they put an Admiral in charge of the joint fleet? What are the other Admirals and Generals doing, other than me?
I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Thank you, Starsword and Mustrum, I think you both put the position with greater clarity than I did. And my apologies, Mark, if I seemed to be challenging you - that was not my intent.
I don't really understand the ranks of some of the NPCs. As StarSword mentioned - why wouldn't they put an Admiral in charge of the joint fleet? What are the other Admirals and Generals doing, other than me?
I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Absolutely. In the well-written "A Step Between Stars", the Player Character is the one to make the decisions. Tuvok and "Cooper" obey your orders and follow your lead. Although the game (of course) rails you into the one possible pathway, the dialogue is at least structured to give the appearance of you making the decisions; and Tuvok is unfailingly polite, respectful and deferential. It's odd that it's an Admiral who's respectful and deferential to you, and not the myriad Captains and other lower ranks who treat you that way. Perhaps the writers do feel it's because he's a Vulcan, and do it to project Vulcan calm, but that's really how all of these end game episodes ought to go.
Give us the dialogue buttons to make the choices (even if all paths eventually must lead to the same outcome). Let the PC be the one to make the decisions. That doesn't mean that NPC's can't say, "Permission to speak freely, sir?", "With respect, may I remind the [RankName] that...", or "Sir, what about the...?" Their viewpoints and plot-leading dialogue can be given in a proper manner, and leave the Player feeling that he or she was actually in command. And then the Player can take responsibility for what happened. Much more emotionally impactful.
After the death of M'Tara, suppose the PC had been allowed to stay and try to fight T'Ket and L'Miren? And endless waves of Heralds? And the Iconians have instant passive full healing, so they can't actually be killed in regular battle? Eventually the PC - not some lowly NPC - orders the retreat, because there truly IS no practical alternative. Show, don't tell = better drama
In "Butterfly", Nog destroys Romulus again. How much more of an emotional impact would there have been, how much more powerful a scenario would it have been, if the PC (particularly, a Romulan PC) had had to give the order that destroyed Romulus once more? No one in universe would remember it. But the Player would.
From a plot perspective, the same ends are achieved in both cases. But from a game perspective, the Player Character is more involved and more responsible. In TOS, Kirk made the final decisions in the field; in TNG, Picard did; in DS9, Sisko did; etc., etc. And in STO, we should. This is supposed to be our story. Write for us. Unlike in TV, books or movies, your customers ARE your stars - treat them as such.
Thank you, Starsword and Mustrum, I think you both put the position with greater clarity than I did. And my apologies, Mark, if I seemed to be challenging you - that was not my intent.
I don't really understand the ranks of some of the NPCs. As StarSword mentioned - why wouldn't they put an Admiral in charge of the joint fleet? What are the other Admirals and Generals doing, other than me?
I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Absolutely. In the well-written "A Step Between Stars", the Player Character is the one to make the decisions. Tuvok and "Cooper" obey your orders and follow your lead. Although the game (of course) rails you into the one possible pathway, the dialogue is at least structured to give the appearance of you making the decisions; and Tuvok is unfailingly polite, respectful and deferential. It's odd that it's an Admiral who's respectful and deferential to you, and not the myriad Captains and other lower ranks who treat you that way. Perhaps the writers do feel it's because he's a Vulcan, and do it to project Vulcan calm, but that's really how all of these end game episodes ought to go.
Give us the dialogue buttons to make the choices (even if all paths eventually must lead to the same outcome). Let the PC be the one to make the decisions. That doesn't mean that NPC's can't say, "Permission to speak freely, sir?", "With respect, may I remind the [RankName] that...", or "Sir, what about the...?" Their viewpoints and plot-leading dialogue can be given in a proper manner, and leave the Player feeling that he or she was actually in command. And then the Player can take responsibility for what happened. Much more emotionally impactful.
After the death of M'Tara, suppose the PC had been allowed to stay and try to fight T'Ket and L'Miren? And endless waves of Heralds? And the Iconians have instant passive full healing, so they can't actually be killed in regular battle? Eventually the PC - not some lowly NPC - orders the retreat, because there truly IS no practical alternative. Show, don't tell = better drama
In "Butterfly", Nog destroys Romulus again. How much more of an emotional impact would there have been, how much more powerful a scenario would it have been, if the PC (particularly, a Romulan PC) had had to give the order that destroyed Romulus once more? No one in universe would remember it. But the Player would.
From a plot perspective, the same ends are achieved in both cases. But from a game perspective, the Player Character is more involved and more responsible. In TOS, Kirk made the final decisions in the field; in TNG, Picard did; in DS9, Sisko did; etc., etc. And in STO, we should. This is supposed to be our story. Write for us. Unlike in TV, books or movies, your customers ARE your stars - treat them as such.
Agree completely. The spoilered parts would definitely have improved the missions.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Thank you, Starsword and Mustrum, I think you both put the position with greater clarity than I did. And my apologies, Mark, if I seemed to be challenging you - that was not my intent.
I don't really understand the ranks of some of the NPCs. As StarSword mentioned - why wouldn't they put an Admiral in charge of the joint fleet? What are the other Admirals and Generals doing, other than me?
I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Absolutely. In the well-written "A Step Between Stars", the Player Character is the one to make the decisions. Tuvok and "Cooper" obey your orders and follow your lead. Although the game (of course) rails you into the one possible pathway, the dialogue is at least structured to give the appearance of you making the decisions; and Tuvok is unfailingly polite, respectful and deferential. It's odd that it's an Admiral who's respectful and deferential to you, and not the myriad Captains and other lower ranks who treat you that way. Perhaps the writers do feel it's because he's a Vulcan, and do it to project Vulcan calm, but that's really how all of these end game episodes ought to go.
Give us the dialogue buttons to make the choices (even if all paths eventually must lead to the same outcome). Let the PC be the one to make the decisions. That doesn't mean that NPC's can't say, "Permission to speak freely, sir?", "With respect, may I remind the [RankName] that...", or "Sir, what about the...?" Their viewpoints and plot-leading dialogue can be given in a proper manner, and leave the Player feeling that he or she was actually in command. And then the Player can take responsibility for what happened. Much more emotionally impactful.
After the death of M'Tara, suppose the PC had been allowed to stay and try to fight T'Ket and L'Miren? And endless waves of Heralds? And the Iconians have instant passive full healing, so they can't actually be killed in regular battle? Eventually the PC - not some lowly NPC - orders the retreat, because there truly IS no practical alternative. Show, don't tell = better drama
In "Butterfly", Nog destroys Romulus again. How much more of an emotional impact would there have been, how much more powerful a scenario would it have been, if the PC (particularly, a Romulan PC) had had to give the order that destroyed Romulus once more? No one in universe would remember it. But the Player would.
From a plot perspective, the same ends are achieved in both cases. But from a game perspective, the Player Character is more involved and more responsible. In TOS, Kirk made the final decisions in the field; in TNG, Picard did; in DS9, Sisko did; etc., etc. And in STO, we should. This is supposed to be our story. Write for us. Unlike in TV, books or movies, your customers ARE your stars - treat them as such.
The problem with your idea #1 is that it only works well in a single player RPG. In an MMO you end up with endless rage about how the mission is unfair. It's not really showing all that much either, all it's doing is dumping trash mobs on the player... yawn. Or worse: unkillable boss mobs. You'd inevitably get complaints from people who thought they could win.... some of them might be capable of it even.
Your second idea has less merit than you think. You need a way to FORCE the decision and no matter what story telling device is used, people would complain about the non-decision. This sort of discussion came up regarding the Kobali story.
The problem with your idea #1 is that it only works well in a single player RPG. In an MMO you end up with endless rage about how the mission is unfair. It's not really showing all that much either, all it's doing is dumping trash mobs on the player... yawn. Or worse: unkillable boss mobs. You'd inevitably get complaints from people who thought they could win.... some of them might be capable of it even.
Yes, I can see that. A real no-win scenario is very likely to induce rage. But a lot of people were unhappy with being yanked out abruptly by an NPC, too. Perhaps, as you suggest, there is no widely acceptable way to present such an ending in a MMORPG. There really ought to be a better way, though.
Your second idea has less merit than you think. You need a way to FORCE the decision and no matter what story telling device is used, people would complain about the non-decision. This sort of discussion came up regarding the Kobali story.
There I can't agree. The writing team even demonstrated my suggested approach beautifully in "A Step Between Stars". The ending was much the same as it would be in my "Butterfly" scenario, as disaster was instigated by the Player's "choice". Reason and logic were used to make the outcome inevitable, even though it was the PC who finally gave the order to throw the switch. And I feel that "Step" is a closer parallel in terms of situation and story arc to "Butterfly" than the Kobali situation was. In the Kobali story, the ending was forced by dev fiat, regardless of the logic or morality of the situation. In "Step" and "Butterfly" (as I suggest) the fatal step is taken willingly because the current situation is completely untenable, and without knowing (in-character, at least) the full ramifications of the alternative before that path is taken.
You are certainly right about needing to force a decision, but even if all roads lead to Rome, by giving players a choice of roads (instead of having an NPC rudely grab the wheel from them) you at least give the Player an illusion of making the decision, instead of leaving them with a feeling of insignificance and powerlessness.
But this is all quibbling about examples. All I'm trying to say is that Nog (or Seven or Worf or whoever the Featured Episode du jour guest is) is NOT the star of the Episode, the Player Character is, always and without exception. The Guest Star is simply that, the GUEST Star. Important, yes, but only to help or hinder the protagonist, not to replace or upstage him.
If that's not the case, then you're not playing a game anymore, you're watching a movie - and this is supposed to be a game.
On Topic: What got me started on all this is how much better the writing is for these blogs than anything in the recent FE's, and the hope that the writing of the latter will improve to the level of the former. Can we agree on that much?
Thank you, Starsword and Mustrum, I think you both put the position with greater clarity than I did. And my apologies, Mark, if I seemed to be challenging you - that was not my intent.
I don't really understand the ranks of some of the NPCs. As StarSword mentioned - why wouldn't they put an Admiral in charge of the joint fleet? What are the other Admirals and Generals doing, other than me?
I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Absolutely. In the well-written "A Step Between Stars", the Player Character is the one to make the decisions. Tuvok and "Cooper" obey your orders and follow your lead. Although the game (of course) rails you into the one possible pathway, the dialogue is at least structured to give the appearance of you making the decisions; and Tuvok is unfailingly polite, respectful and deferential. It's odd that it's an Admiral who's respectful and deferential to you, and not the myriad Captains and other lower ranks who treat you that way. Perhaps the writers do feel it's because he's a Vulcan, and do it to project Vulcan calm, but that's really how all of these end game episodes ought to go.
Give us the dialogue buttons to make the choices (even if all paths eventually must lead to the same outcome). Let the PC be the one to make the decisions. That doesn't mean that NPC's can't say, "Permission to speak freely, sir?", "With respect, may I remind the [RankName] that...", or "Sir, what about the...?" Their viewpoints and plot-leading dialogue can be given in a proper manner, and leave the Player feeling that he or she was actually in command. And then the Player can take responsibility for what happened. Much more emotionally impactful.
After the death of M'Tara, suppose the PC had been allowed to stay and try to fight T'Ket and L'Miren? And endless waves of Heralds? And the Iconians have instant passive full healing, so they can't actually be killed in regular battle? Eventually the PC - not some lowly NPC - orders the retreat, because there truly IS no practical alternative. Show, don't tell = better drama
In "Butterfly", Nog destroys Romulus again. How much more of an emotional impact would there have been, how much more powerful a scenario would it have been, if the PC (particularly, a Romulan PC) had had to give the order that destroyed Romulus once more? No one in universe would remember it. But the Player would.
From a plot perspective, the same ends are achieved in both cases. But from a game perspective, the Player Character is more involved and more responsible. In TOS, Kirk made the final decisions in the field; in TNG, Picard did; in DS9, Sisko did; etc., etc. And in STO, we should. This is supposed to be our story. Write for us. Unlike in TV, books or movies, your customers ARE your stars - treat them as such.
Agree completely. The spoilered parts would definitely have improved the missions.
I am not sure the spoilered approach to Broken Circle would be the best.
1) Fighting an unwinnable battle is something that players might not expect and they end up stuck.
2) Logically, the thing that happens next is that one of the two Iconians makes his gesture and we explode. At least that is what I firmly believe what would have happened. Of course, one might argue that T'Ket and L'Miren would have had the same problems as T'Mara, but I doubt it.
What would have had a much higher impact would be being more involved in the decision making process for the entire assault. That would require a bit of rewriting, probably. But explain why we think it's a good idea to make a push on the enemies stronghold and what we wanted to achieve, and then let us agree to Kagrans plans. That would require making a bit more detailed arguments than we hear - most players on the forums seem to consider the plan foolish, which is a failure in the story IMO.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'll admit that portraying an unwinnable battle in a video game without resorting to blatant railroading is difficult, but there are solutions. In my current Foundry project, which I haven't been able to work on in months because the map builder is frakked, I have a scene where I have the PC's ship get bailed out by some Cardassian guerrillas. I did this by clearly establishing the Gameplay and Story Segregation in dialogue: your warp core is offline because of technobabble at the start of the scene and your engineer tells you you're taking serious damage.
And again, we have the example of Mass Effect 3, this time from the opening level where Shepard is forced to flee Earth. Grand vistas of huge destruction and hundreds of Reapers descending over the cities and blasting the defenders out of their way with little effort--there's a prominent shot at one point of a Reaper blowing away an Everest-class dreadnought that had the balls to attack it in atmosphere.
The key part, as mustrum said, is to properly establish and build up the scene rather than to just throw a handwave and drop the player in the middle of it. "Uneasy Allies" tried to do this, showing a Herald fleet so big it filled the entire Dyson Sphere, a frankly absurd number of ships that must have the entire mass of several solar systems, but because Cryptic has no sense of scale this is not followed through on.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Is it just me, or does Doctor Harza-Kull seem a lot like The Doctor from Voyager?
Maybe its a klingon EMH?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Is it just me, or does Doctor Harza-Kull seem a lot like The Doctor from Voyager?
Maybe its a klingon EMH?
Nah, it's a cantankerous Orion who thinks Klingons are idiots.
And not without reason. If the Klingons weren't idiots they never would've broken off the Khitomer Accords, and they'd treat scientists, engineers, and doctors with more respect.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Comments
I think they always intended us to replay episodes endlessly and were never satisfied with how much we replayed them. Voiceover rather than text and rationed rewards help force that.
The old FEs released maybe 10-12 a year (excluding divestment period) in binge-able chunks.
The new ones seem to release around 6-8 a year. That may partly owe to VO budget but is largely due to the fact that they want you to replay each mission 4-5 times and are spacing out releases/rewards to try to get more life out of a single piece of content. They don't want you to be done with something because you played it and they want to keep you active year-round instead of leaving, coming back, binding, and leaving again.
Each featured episode mission featured 5 full missions (the Romulan one also had a closer mission that was just some final dialog.). I think the FEs did release weekly (at least most of the time), but there wasn't actually more content than now. They just scheduled the release differently.
The monthly release with the "reward bribe" is probably much better for player retention, because you don't have months without new content...
Given the Borg's unparalleled recuperative/regenerative abilities, they should still have a sizable fleet, whereas everyone else's regenerative ability is much smaller. In theory, this means they should still be too much for Starfleet to handle, but we are ignoring that point. Regardless, they would turn on you the minute they didn't need you, and that doesn't make for very good cooperation.
The Tholians are interesting, as we don't really know their status.
What I am interested in though, is the Dominion. We know that their, (at least in the context of canon), technology is quite advanced, as in the beginning of the Dominion War, unmodified federation shields were unable to withstand their weapons, and that their transporter technology was equally advanced. I can't believe that they haven't advanced their tech since then, and I also don't believe the Iconians will stop at the alpha/beta quadrants. Actually, in Sphere of Influence, there were plans in place to take the Gamma Quadrant after the Alpha and Beta were secure. The Dominion has as much to lose as Starfleet does. I'm interested what Sela's doing. Reaching Tier 1 or 2 in the Resistance Rep, I believe, has her telling you she's looking for allies in some far off place she used to be. That should be interesting.
About us fighting the Borg:
Task Force Omega fought the Borg invasion to a standstill, but as the Borg conference on DS9 established it: despite the successful operations, it was a losing fight.
If the Borg had not tangled with the Voth and the Undine, and if the Vaadwaur hadn't shown up to start their cleanup for the Iconians, we would've been eventually overrun. Now, they've suffered several major setbacks, and are being pushed back. And I think the Queen's defeat in "Into the Hive" and then in "Hive Onslaught" were gambles. Surgical strikes with very high stakes.
In Borg Disconnected, the Queen vows that "The Collective will not fall here".
I think they will continue to be pushed back, and any alliance with them would be temporary (or "futile", as they put it), because they turn on you the second the immediate threat is over. And if they assimilate technology from our enemies... they might be able to pull a comeback on us.
About the tholians: Yeah we don't exactly know where they stand on this, but from the New Dawn trailer, they'll be getting some more screentime.
And yes I believe, naturally, the Dominion spent most of its time recovering after the Dominion War, but we don't know what the Founders make of all this. Aside from the changeling we released from facility 4028, we had no contact with gamma quadrant founders whatsoever.
Yes, we have the Hundred in the New Link on our side of the wormhole that Laas gathered, but they wish to be left in peace. So we don't know what's up with the Great Link. It could've been destroyed for all we know, and the Dominion has been flying on "passive autopilot" since then.
However, the modified "Gamma Jem'Hadar" that Eraun brings along for the visit on facilty 4028 suggests that the Founders are alive and well, and they've made a few advancements to their armies.
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Very true.
My real argument though, is not so much about the release schedule, as about the content. They pay for the star VO talent, and then (reasonably enough) give them reams and reams of monologues or dialogues with each other. What this means, though, is that the player is left for huge chunks of time as a passive observer, and then we get our orders. From a subordinate. Because by this point in the game (aside from the temporary-access-for-level-10-initial-release) the player characters are all level 60 Fleet Admirals/Dahar Masters, and thus outrank virtually everyone else! These crappy lieutenants, captains, admirals and generals should be submitting reports and kissing our butts, instead of slinging insubordination, sarcasm and orders our way.
We outrank Captain Kim, Admiral Tuvok, and the Doctor. We outrank Admiral Kererak, Admiral Quinn, Captain Kagran, and all the other "mission givers". In fact, about the only people we've met whom we don't outrank are Chancellor J'mpok, Proconsul D'Tan, Empress Sela, Empress Taris, the female Changeling, and the Borg Queen. We haven't met the President of the Federation yet, or the members of the Federation Council, but they are the only ones who would be left on the FED side who would outrank us. Basically, if you aren't the de facto ruler of an interstellar civilization, we outrank you, and you have no business giving us orders. You may ask for our help, or report your findings to us and await our judgment; but give us any backchat, and you'll find yourself in a hellhole that makes Rura Penthe look like the tea room at the Savoy Hotel fast enough to make your head spin! We should be treated with overwhelming respect and deference by the NPC's we meet, and instead we're ordered about, talked down to, or flat out ignored!
[*breathes*]
Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic:
These Tales are great, and really should be collected on a pad as an in-game reward for the last episode of the war.
My character Tsin'xing
Which doesn't make it any less stupid that Star Trek Online is top-heavy with O-11s.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Even if we assume that each alt we have is essentially their own universe, it still doesn't explain why in the later missions we are almost never treated according to our rank...AND proven competence, compared to some of these others. (Even when we're handed the idiot ball by the game, at least we get the job done, compared to certain others...i.e. Kagran.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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My character Tsin'xing
I had no say as to which show provided to any expansion, but all the Star Trek TV series/movies deserve some love.
My point exactly. If they weren't prepared to make the rank relevant by taking us out of the command chair and having us directing fleets, they shouldn't have given it to us to begin with.
The hero rank of Star Trek is commander or captain. Admirals and generals are quest-givers and corrupt opponents.
Oh, right, the show whose protagonist commits treason against the Federation on the word of a space pixie and gets away with it deserves love, riiiiight. Ditto ENT, with its racist idiot of a captain who prioritizes his dog over getting mission-critical parts, and who committed genocide based on a blatant misrepresentation of evolution.
TRIBBLE VOY, and TRIBBLE ENT.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're missing my points.
1) This level of "under orders otherwise" (to use your phrase) is tantamount to Eisenhower or Nimitz (at their highest - Five Star - rank) being given orders by a Major or a Captain. Taking it to this extreme is patently absurd - in any service. Basically, what I'm saying is that our characters at end game are at Julius Caesar levels of importance, power and prestige. Treat them as such.
2) In Starfleet in particular (from what's been shown on screen), being the ranking officer gives you the automatic authority to assume command in the field. Examples exist in the shows from TOS onward. Only proving the superior officer insane seems to be a viable defense.
3) Excluding the special case of a lower-ranked Tal Shiar officer (Troi) assuming command from a higher ranked naval officer (or the more extreme case of Klingon Promotion - which is basically institutionalized mutiny), we have no clear canon examples of subordinates ordering superiors (as in these cases) from the Klingons or Romulans. Superior ranks give orders, lower ranks obey. And subordinates can even be shot at their posts by their captains for getting a "lucky shot" against orders.
4) Most importantly though, what I'm trying to get across is that spending 90% of the mission in NPC cutscenes (where we are frequently ignored or marginalized) is simply an example of poor writing and poor game design. In ANY RPG (MMO, single player, or paper and pencil), the Player Character should be the focus/hero of the story. We're not reading a book or watching a movie about other people, we're supposed to BE the protagonist in a game. But lately, the writing has been all about showing off the NPC's with voiceover, while the Player Character is treated as the audience, instead of as the central character.
This is akin to staging a production of Hamlet, and giving Rosencrantz and Guildenstern all the soliloquies. And THEN they tell Hamlet to go dig Ophelia's grave.
And he does.
Four times in a row, in four successive weeks.
Thank you, sir. May I have another?
My character Tsin'xing
Now, there are specific circumstances where this would not be the case. The current Surgeon General of the Army is a nursing officer who was in the Pentagon on 9/11 and took charge of things before emergency services arrived. This included a three-star asking her why she was giving him orders; she responds, "Sir, I'm a nurse," and he goes, "OK, carry on." And of course we can't forget Maxim 3: "An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
But in STO, these circumstances are almost never present. Outside of Jorel Quinn and Admiral Kererek, mission givers are almost never ranked properly for the authority they're given (A subcommander in charge of the entire Dyson Sphere? Seriously? A captain in command of the entire Alliance war effort? Bullsh*t!), and treat the player characters like totally green ensigns despite being outranked by several grades, and often even giving them tasks that should rightly be given to junior enlisted.
Let me also remind you that disrespect to a superior officer is a court-martialable offense.
That's not what he's saying. He's saying they're marginalizing the PC in favor of their guest stars. Sorry, Tuvok, Harry Kim, and Dr. Hansen, you may have been the only remotely competent people on Voyager but your story ended 30 years ago. This is my story.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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I know a problem with the featured episode model is that even a lowly Lt.Cmdr can play them, so it wouldn't make sense to put the player character in charge these, even if eventually the mission is only available to fleet admirals once the featured episode time has run out.
In Deep Space Nine, Captain Sisko had a lot of responsibility, but he had Admiral Ross as superior, and there was clearly stuff going on beyond Sisko and Ross' group. The push for DS9 did not contain all the fleets. Only the push for Cardassia in the end might have used pretty much everything.
Kagran seems to be in charge of a lot more than Ross or Sisko were. But even if that's not the case - If we're supposed to play the Admiral Ross to his Sisko, than it never gets clear from the dialogue.
Butterfly also had that issue - Why can two Captains and a bunch of Scientists decide on a significant temporal change? Is it because they also got a Fleet Admiral / Dahar Master with them and they were previously entrusted by the Delta Alliance leadership (including the Federation Council and the Klingon High Council) to make the final decisions?
They could and they should make that clearer.
Absolutely. In the well-written "A Step Between Stars", the Player Character is the one to make the decisions. Tuvok and "Cooper" obey your orders and follow your lead. Although the game (of course) rails you into the one possible pathway, the dialogue is at least structured to give the appearance of you making the decisions; and Tuvok is unfailingly polite, respectful and deferential. It's odd that it's an Admiral who's respectful and deferential to you, and not the myriad Captains and other lower ranks who treat you that way. Perhaps the writers do feel it's because he's a Vulcan, and do it to project Vulcan calm, but that's really how all of these end game episodes ought to go.
Give us the dialogue buttons to make the choices (even if all paths eventually must lead to the same outcome). Let the PC be the one to make the decisions. That doesn't mean that NPC's can't say, "Permission to speak freely, sir?", "With respect, may I remind the [RankName] that...", or "Sir, what about the...?" Their viewpoints and plot-leading dialogue can be given in a proper manner, and leave the Player feeling that he or she was actually in command. And then the Player can take responsibility for what happened. Much more emotionally impactful.
From a plot perspective, the same ends are achieved in both cases. But from a game perspective, the Player Character is more involved and more responsible. In TOS, Kirk made the final decisions in the field; in TNG, Picard did; in DS9, Sisko did; etc., etc. And in STO, we should. This is supposed to be our story. Write for us. Unlike in TV, books or movies, your customers ARE your stars - treat them as such.
Agree completely. The spoilered parts would definitely have improved the missions.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Your second idea has less merit than you think. You need a way to FORCE the decision and no matter what story telling device is used, people would complain about the non-decision. This sort of discussion came up regarding the Kobali story.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes, I can see that. A real no-win scenario is very likely to induce rage. But a lot of people were unhappy with being yanked out abruptly by an NPC, too. Perhaps, as you suggest, there is no widely acceptable way to present such an ending in a MMORPG. There really ought to be a better way, though.
There I can't agree. The writing team even demonstrated my suggested approach beautifully in "A Step Between Stars". The ending was much the same as it would be in my "Butterfly" scenario, as disaster was instigated by the Player's "choice". Reason and logic were used to make the outcome inevitable, even though it was the PC who finally gave the order to throw the switch. And I feel that "Step" is a closer parallel in terms of situation and story arc to "Butterfly" than the Kobali situation was. In the Kobali story, the ending was forced by dev fiat, regardless of the logic or morality of the situation. In "Step" and "Butterfly" (as I suggest) the fatal step is taken willingly because the current situation is completely untenable, and without knowing (in-character, at least) the full ramifications of the alternative before that path is taken.
You are certainly right about needing to force a decision, but even if all roads lead to Rome, by giving players a choice of roads (instead of having an NPC rudely grab the wheel from them) you at least give the Player an illusion of making the decision, instead of leaving them with a feeling of insignificance and powerlessness.
But this is all quibbling about examples. All I'm trying to say is that Nog (or Seven or Worf or whoever the Featured Episode du jour guest is) is NOT the star of the Episode, the Player Character is, always and without exception. The Guest Star is simply that, the GUEST Star. Important, yes, but only to help or hinder the protagonist, not to replace or upstage him.
If that's not the case, then you're not playing a game anymore, you're watching a movie - and this is supposed to be a game.
On Topic: What got me started on all this is how much better the writing is for these blogs than anything in the recent FE's, and the hope that the writing of the latter will improve to the level of the former. Can we agree on that much?
I am not sure the spoilered approach to Broken Circle would be the best.
1) Fighting an unwinnable battle is something that players might not expect and they end up stuck.
2) Logically, the thing that happens next is that one of the two Iconians makes his gesture and we explode. At least that is what I firmly believe what would have happened. Of course, one might argue that T'Ket and L'Miren would have had the same problems as T'Mara, but I doubt it.
What would have had a much higher impact would be being more involved in the decision making process for the entire assault. That would require a bit of rewriting, probably. But explain why we think it's a good idea to make a push on the enemies stronghold and what we wanted to achieve, and then let us agree to Kagrans plans. That would require making a bit more detailed arguments than we hear - most players on the forums seem to consider the plan foolish, which is a failure in the story IMO.)
And again, we have the example of Mass Effect 3, this time from the opening level where Shepard is forced to flee Earth. Grand vistas of huge destruction and hundreds of Reapers descending over the cities and blasting the defenders out of their way with little effort--there's a prominent shot at one point of a Reaper blowing away an Everest-class dreadnought that had the balls to attack it in atmosphere.
The key part, as mustrum said, is to properly establish and build up the scene rather than to just throw a handwave and drop the player in the middle of it. "Uneasy Allies" tried to do this, showing a Herald fleet so big it filled the entire Dyson Sphere, a frankly absurd number of ships that must have the entire mass of several solar systems, but because Cryptic has no sense of scale this is not followed through on.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Maybe its a klingon EMH?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
My character Tsin'xing
And not without reason. If the Klingons weren't idiots they never would've broken off the Khitomer Accords, and they'd treat scientists, engineers, and doctors with more respect.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."