It would have been a fine idea for a post-TNG show. The problem with TCW was that it was two concepts that meshed poorly when paired with a gritty prequel. Now if the show had been in the 29th century, it would have been okay.
And this game is now moving on from being a straight TNG sequel to being the prequel to Relativity. And TCW fits that better than it fits Enterprise.
Likewise, the problem with Voyager's time travel episodes wasn't that they happened or that there were so many of them: it's that they belonged more in a series about time travel. Meanwhile, nobody gets upset about Doctor Who having too much time travel (except for some serious Pertwee fans, amirite?) because that's the premise of the show. Where we're going now, time travel is the premise of "the show" not a detour like it was in Enterprise or Voyager.
No, it was a bad idea because Berman & Braga did a TRIBBLE poor job of planning-- wait, who am I kidding, they did ZERO planning. Whether it was their idea, or the studio's, or both... it was a bad idea.
Yeah, I enjoyed the episode... got to use my anti-Borg away team for the first time. A few thoughts:
1. Wasn't the Annorax Timeship outside of time, and therefore, impervious to conventional weapons? SO HOW DID THE SHIP GET DAMAGED?!
2. The Sphere Builders thing makes ZERO sense to me, and no amount of hand-waving will fix it. Think about it... we "left" our original timeline, which already contained the Sphere Builders (since the game acknowledges Enterprise, much to my dismay)... and in the process of leaving Borg Land (I agree with others... erasing one gate fixes everything??)... we're now in a timeline where we created the Sphere Builders?! How? What? Huh?
3. I didn't get to fight the Dominion. DON'T TEASE ME!!!!
4. MY THEORY: This is all a fever dream, and we're really lying on an assimilation table on Romulus. Thanks, Nog!
1. It was inside time. It just had shields that allowed the inhabitants to remember things that had never happened.
2. Well, I'm not sure our original timeline contained the Sphere Builders. They interacted with it, sure, but I'd imagine a Temporal Cold War would stretch across many timelines, including interacting with dead branches and prior versions of history. If your battlefield is timelines then I'd imagine you could interact with versions from before the branch you existed in.
3. Soon enough, I imagine. Maybe we could stand to check in with Sela.
4. I don't think Borg dream, do they? Dreaming would require a subconscious and a collective consciousness is already about as "sub" as consciousness gets.
My honest opinion, just demolish the damn time erase ship and go ask the Guardian of Forever what the best course of action is there to change the Iconians minds about war and talk of peace between everyone.
Oh, wait.....that's too simple of a solution. Nevermind.
The whole episode made very little sense. I find the very idea that the holodecks could be used even remotely accurately predict anything with all of the variables out there. (tell me, oh all-seeing holodeck, how you know the borg would strike at Romulus if the Iconians didn't blow it up? Why did you think that Sela and Hakeev would still be in power? etc.
Despite this, it's rushed into use as soon as possible, with just the approval of a handful of individuals before we went out to rewrite history. I don't even remember a Klingon representative even being present when the deceision was made. Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly, at this point)-the Fed temporal rep has no objections (and temporal reps from the other two factions are not present) And (surprise) things go badly.
Also, removing one transwarp gate removes the borg presence? and somehow results in a destroyed Romulus? How's that supposed to work?
The episode itself seemed mostly to give a hamfisted justification as to why Romulus has not/won't be restored despite the technology being available and being used several points in the story, and secondly to set up a temporal war arc.
Making actual sense seems to have been a secondary or tertiary concern.
I personally very much enjoyed the episode. I found that the lack of unnecessary combat and the solid amount of dialogue felt like a great departure from the usual episodes we are provided. Kudos to cryptic on a job well done.
You're speaking of mission structure, I'm talking anout the writing. They're two different thinga.
And honestly the episode was passable, mostly. But that ending was utterly silly.
These two quotes summarise my feelings on the episode. Found it incredibly enjoyable (a bit of predictability isn't an issue, nor are writing tropes like the introduction of a character to kill them, that's just how these things are some times) up until the last little bit where it ends abruptly leaving more questions than answers.
I personally very much enjoyed the episode. It showed the Devs have taken the risky nature of their attempts well into account, with the promise that this is going to be less staightforward than we though.
Destroying the gate, though, yeah, that was utterly ridiculous, and went against everything they did with running careful holodeck simulations, to try and calculate the effects of removing objects from time.
I personally very much enjoyed the episode. It showed the Devs have taken the risky nature of their attempts well into account, with the promise that this is going to be less staightforward than we though.
Destroying the gate, though, yeah, that was utterly ridiculous, and went against everything they did with running careful holodeck simulations, to try and calculate the effects of removing objects from time.
1. It was inside time. It just had shields that allowed the inhabitants to remember things that had never happened.
You need to watch "Year of Hell" again... Annorax (and Janeway, I believe) said that the ship was out of phase with time, which is how it would not be affected by conventional weapons. Someone brought this up earlier... the only way Annorax's ship COULD be affected by conventional weapons was for the temporal shielding to be sabotaged. If conventional weapons (even Borg ones) can't damage the ship, then they can't bring the shields down. That means either we built the ship incorrectly, or our version of the ship was also sabotaged.
2. Well, I'm not sure our original timeline contained the Sphere Builders. They interacted with it, sure, but I'd imagine a Temporal Cold War would stretch across many timelines, including interacting with dead branches and prior versions of history. If your battlefield is timelines then I'd imagine you could interact with versions from before the branch you existed in.
And that's why the TCW is a bad idea, LOL. It can spin out of control into Deus Ex Temporal SO EASILY.
4. I don't think Borg dream, do they? Dreaming would require a subconscious and a collective consciousness is already about as "sub" as consciousness gets.
While that was a joke, and a fever dream happens BEFORE you die (or in this case, get assimilated)... I kindly point to Unimatrix Zero.
I love all the love the game is showing the Dominion... it seems in almost any universe... the Dominion are just this juggernaut of a force...
Well considering the Iconians aren't planing to go after them until they have the full resources of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants at their disposal and how they were able to fight both the Federation and Klingons to a standstill WITHOUT the full resources of the Dominion, they probably are.
That means either we built the ship incorrectly, or our version of the ship was also sabotaged.
Probably a temporal agent pulling a Gary Seven and making sure there was enough evidence that things went pear shaped but the timeline was close enough not to invalidate them so the Alliance will quit trying to TRIBBLE with time.
Yeah, I enjoyed the episode... got to use my anti-Borg away team for the first time. A few thoughts:
1. Wasn't the Annorax Timeship outside of time, and therefore, impervious to conventional weapons? SO HOW DID THE SHIP GET DAMAGED?!
2. The Sphere Builders thing makes ZERO sense to me, and no amount of hand-waving will fix it. Think about it... we "left" our original timeline, which already contained the Sphere Builders (since the game acknowledges Enterprise, much to my dismay)... and in the process of leaving Borg Land (I agree with others... erasing one gate fixes everything??)... we're now in a timeline where we created the Sphere Builders?! How? What? Huh?
3. I didn't get to fight the Dominion. DON'T TEASE ME!!!!
4. MY THEORY: This is all a fever dream, and we're really lying on an assimilation table on Romulus. Thanks, Nog!
1. It was inside time. It just had shields that allowed the inhabitants to remember things that had never happened.
2. Well, I'm not sure our original timeline contained the Sphere Builders. They interacted with it, sure, but I'd imagine a Temporal Cold War would stretch across many timelines, including interacting with dead branches and prior versions of history. If your battlefield is timelines then I'd imagine you could interact with versions from before the branch you existed in.
Actually, that seems to be an inherent feature of all time travel in Terminator. Any time you time travel, you travel to a timeline that has been radically altered from the one you left. Also the time-wave thingy in Terminator apparently isn't immediate, since we have seen many cases(starting in the first movie) of multiple people from the same timeline.
I love all the love the game is showing the Dominion... it seems in almost any universe... the Dominion are just this juggernaut of a force...
No surprise. The supreme power has everyone else in positions of power either genetical engineered to not betray them (some errors aside) or engineered and addicted to serve them, and with that they can just build a big army, especially since JH eat and drink nothing (or near nothing) aside from their drug.
And I imagine the people living in the Gamma quadrant and didnt rebell against them live a normal live, since the dominion only wants obedience. They dont need slaves (they have them engineeres), nor do they need to let the people live in poverty (which might make more of an incentive to rebell). They only needed to trade their freedom for it.
If you think about it, they have it quite easy there. The internal structure is solid, and for external conflicts they have a very big army at their disposal. And they dont care about moral and ethics about using that army, giving them even more of an edge.
1. It was inside time. It just had shields that allowed the inhabitants to remember things that had never happened.
You need to watch "Year of Hell" again... Annorax (and Janeway, I believe) said that the ship was out of phase with time, which is how it would not be affected by conventional weapons. Someone brought this up earlier... the only way Annorax's ship COULD be affected by conventional weapons was for the temporal shielding to be sabotaged. If conventional weapons (even Borg ones) can't damage the ship, then they can't bring the shields down. That means either we built the ship incorrectly, or our version of the ship was also sabotaged.
2. Well, I'm not sure our original timeline contained the Sphere Builders. They interacted with it, sure, but I'd imagine a Temporal Cold War would stretch across many timelines, including interacting with dead branches and prior versions of history. If your battlefield is timelines then I'd imagine you could interact with versions from before the branch you existed in.
And that's why the TCW is a bad idea, LOL. It can spin out of control into Deus Ex Temporal SO EASILY.
4. I don't think Borg dream, do they? Dreaming would require a subconscious and a collective consciousness is already about as "sub" as consciousness gets.
While that was a joke, and a fever dream happens BEFORE you die (or in this case, get assimilated)... I kindly point to Unimatrix Zero.
I have seen Year of Hell. Annorax's ship was out of phase with time in that episode. Nog's Annorax class ship wasn't and operated inside the timestream while using Temporal Shielding (which, if memory serves, was invented aboard Voyager in response to the Krenim). We aren't using straight Krenim tech here but we're adapting unfinished blueprints with Fed, Klingon, and Romulan tech. I feel like there's plenty of explanation.
Otherwise, points well taken. :-) But I think when you get into some major "Temporal Deus Ex" type stuff, it allows for weirder stories and when the weird becomes normal, it allows you to really tap into a Philip K. TRIBBLE/Grant Morrison type direction for Trek. Maybe starbases that look like Escher paintings, people being tried for crimes they hadn't committed yet, loss of humanity, and generally stuff I find interesting... And I think you can ground all of that by alternating focus with the human stories of people within that increasingly incomprehensible world.
This is the path Trek is on based on the futures we've seen. At some point, the switch flips and it becomes more about time exploration than space exploration.
Sorry, but this would be an absolutely horrible idea. It would immediately decay into a hopeless morass of ridiculous stories. And before anyone brings up Doctor Who again, Doctor Who deals with actual history-editing time travel as little as possible and trips over its own feet every time it does. It is also intended for a younger audience. Every television show that has used this as its premise has tanked hard except (arguably) Quantum Leap, which tanked as soon as it started dealing with actual notable historical events. (Which only happened due to Executive Meddling; Bellisario had to give it to network demands for it or the last season wouldn't have happened at all.) Cryptic doesn't have the writing chops to deal with regular Trek stories; they're not going to succeed where everyone else has failed.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
I find the very idea that the holodecks could be used even remotely accurately predict anything with all of the variables out there.
Would have been nice if they'd tossed in a mention of the holodeck simulations being based on Bashir and company's work in "Statistical Probabilities". Along with the player saying "ah, didn't that turn out to not work" and getting a perfunctory "oh, we've improved on it..."
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
I actually liked the episode. Just like in most Trek (STO included), you kind of have to have a willing suspension of disbelief to be able to enjoy it to the fullest...IMO, of course . I actually laughed hard when Nog was explaining some of the timelines created by the simulations....Klingons being farmers who made notable strides in Epic Poetry (maybe in that timeline Shakespeare was from Qo'Nos and Hamlet was in original Klingon...hehe). I also got a chuckle from Kagran's finale speech....Really, dude, now your going to be cautious? One very big, very dead battlefleet too late, I think.
I also liked going through the simulations. I thought that was handled very well. Though I immediately thought that Romulus would be assimilated as soon as I finished the third simulation and we were off to make the first incursion. I have to say, killing assimilated Hakev was quite satisfying to do again...hehe
It did get a little hard to follow when the temporal ship lost it's shielding, though....Did it get blown up and everything reset? How did we get from the assimilated Romulus system back to the Delta Quadrant? I understand that we took out a transwarp gate which just happened to restore the time line more or less, but when the shield failed, wouldn't we still be in the Romulus system in it's current form? We just wouldn't know why because that had become our new reality.
But that's where the "willing suspension of disbelief" kicks in and I just go with it. The last two FE's have been decent, I have to give Cryptic credit there. Much better than the first few of the "Iconian War" FE's, that's for sure. Overall, nice job I think
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
Sorry for not reading all of this but have anyone already said that the timeline has not been "reset". Noya's wife and her whole race is gone. We really don't know what fully happen yet.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
He had the beard at the start of the ep and the end, plus it doesn't take long to grow a beard, a week or 2 of frantically working on this problem all waking hours would easily account for his beard growth.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
He had the beard at the start of the ep and the end, plus it doesn't take long to grow a beard, a week or 2 of frantically working on this problem all waking hours would easily account for his beard growth.
He has a chin beard at the start, and a full facial beard at the end, clearly meant to imply a change.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
He had the beard at the start of the ep and the end, plus it doesn't take long to grow a beard, a week or 2 of frantically working on this problem all waking hours would easily account for his beard growth.
He has a chin beard at the start, and a full facial beard at the end, clearly meant to imply a change.
Easily explained as not bothering to take care of his appearance because of his wife not existing and him being too focused on his work to care.
Like I said, growing a beard isn't hard, hell, I get that level of growth after a mere week of not shaving.
If Cryptic even try to say the Tutarians are the Sphere Builders then they have officially jumped the shark, because how could they exist in the previous timeline along with the Sphere Builders if they are the Sphere Builders.
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
He had the beard at the start of the ep and the end, plus it doesn't take long to grow a beard, a week or 2 of frantically working on this problem all waking hours would easily account for his beard growth.
He has a chin beard at the start, and a full facial beard at the end, clearly meant to imply a change.
Easily explained as not bothering to take care of his appearance because of his wife not existing and him being too focused on his work to care.
Like I said, growing a beard isn't hard, hell, I get that level of growth after a mere week of not shaving.
Do you honestly think Cryptic would change an npc detail just for that? Come on.
Comments
Planning is about the execution, not the concept.
1. It was inside time. It just had shields that allowed the inhabitants to remember things that had never happened.
2. Well, I'm not sure our original timeline contained the Sphere Builders. They interacted with it, sure, but I'd imagine a Temporal Cold War would stretch across many timelines, including interacting with dead branches and prior versions of history. If your battlefield is timelines then I'd imagine you could interact with versions from before the branch you existed in.
3. Soon enough, I imagine. Maybe we could stand to check in with Sela.
4. I don't think Borg dream, do they? Dreaming would require a subconscious and a collective consciousness is already about as "sub" as consciousness gets.
Oh, wait.....that's too simple of a solution. Nevermind.
Despite this, it's rushed into use as soon as possible, with just the approval of a handful of individuals before we went out to rewrite history. I don't even remember a Klingon representative even being present when the deceision was made. Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly, at this point)-the Fed temporal rep has no objections (and temporal reps from the other two factions are not present) And (surprise) things go badly.
Also, removing one transwarp gate removes the borg presence? and somehow results in a destroyed Romulus? How's that supposed to work?
The episode itself seemed mostly to give a hamfisted justification as to why Romulus has not/won't be restored despite the technology being available and being used several points in the story, and secondly to set up a temporal war arc.
Making actual sense seems to have been a secondary or tertiary concern.
You picked the one with the clickbait title. Can't blame you.
These two quotes summarise my feelings on the episode. Found it incredibly enjoyable (a bit of predictability isn't an issue, nor are writing tropes like the introduction of a character to kill them, that's just how these things are some times) up until the last little bit where it ends abruptly leaving more questions than answers.
Destroying the gate, though, yeah, that was utterly ridiculous, and went against everything they did with running careful holodeck simulations, to try and calculate the effects of removing objects from time.
I agree. It was enjoyable with a good story
You need to watch "Year of Hell" again... Annorax (and Janeway, I believe) said that the ship was out of phase with time, which is how it would not be affected by conventional weapons. Someone brought this up earlier... the only way Annorax's ship COULD be affected by conventional weapons was for the temporal shielding to be sabotaged. If conventional weapons (even Borg ones) can't damage the ship, then they can't bring the shields down. That means either we built the ship incorrectly, or our version of the ship was also sabotaged.
And that's why the TCW is a bad idea, LOL. It can spin out of control into Deus Ex Temporal SO EASILY.
While that was a joke, and a fever dream happens BEFORE you die (or in this case, get assimilated)... I kindly point to Unimatrix Zero.
Victory is life.
Well considering the Iconians aren't planing to go after them until they have the full resources of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants at their disposal and how they were able to fight both the Federation and Klingons to a standstill WITHOUT the full resources of the Dominion, they probably are.
Probably a temporal agent pulling a Gary Seven and making sure there was enough evidence that things went pear shaped but the timeline was close enough not to invalidate them so the Alliance will quit trying to TRIBBLE with time.
My character Tsin'xing
No surprise. The supreme power has everyone else in positions of power either genetical engineered to not betray them (some errors aside) or engineered and addicted to serve them, and with that they can just build a big army, especially since JH eat and drink nothing (or near nothing) aside from their drug.
And I imagine the people living in the Gamma quadrant and didnt rebell against them live a normal live, since the dominion only wants obedience. They dont need slaves (they have them engineeres), nor do they need to let the people live in poverty (which might make more of an incentive to rebell). They only needed to trade their freedom for it.
If you think about it, they have it quite easy there. The internal structure is solid, and for external conflicts they have a very big army at their disposal. And they dont care about moral and ethics about using that army, giving them even more of an edge.
I have seen Year of Hell. Annorax's ship was out of phase with time in that episode. Nog's Annorax class ship wasn't and operated inside the timestream while using Temporal Shielding (which, if memory serves, was invented aboard Voyager in response to the Krenim). We aren't using straight Krenim tech here but we're adapting unfinished blueprints with Fed, Klingon, and Romulan tech. I feel like there's plenty of explanation.
Otherwise, points well taken. :-) But I think when you get into some major "Temporal Deus Ex" type stuff, it allows for weirder stories and when the weird becomes normal, it allows you to really tap into a Philip K. TRIBBLE/Grant Morrison type direction for Trek. Maybe starbases that look like Escher paintings, people being tried for crimes they hadn't committed yet, loss of humanity, and generally stuff I find interesting... And I think you can ground all of that by alternating focus with the human stories of people within that increasingly incomprehensible world.
Sorry, but this would be an absolutely horrible idea. It would immediately decay into a hopeless morass of ridiculous stories. And before anyone brings up Doctor Who again, Doctor Who deals with actual history-editing time travel as little as possible and trips over its own feet every time it does. It is also intended for a younger audience. Every television show that has used this as its premise has tanked hard except (arguably) Quantum Leap, which tanked as soon as it started dealing with actual notable historical events. (Which only happened due to Executive Meddling; Bellisario had to give it to network demands for it or the last season wouldn't have happened at all.) Cryptic doesn't have the writing chops to deal with regular Trek stories; they're not going to succeed where everyone else has failed.
Would have been nice if they'd tossed in a mention of the holodeck simulations being based on Bashir and company's work in "Statistical Probabilities". Along with the player saying "ah, didn't that turn out to not work" and getting a perfunctory "oh, we've improved on it..."
I also liked going through the simulations. I thought that was handled very well. Though I immediately thought that Romulus would be assimilated as soon as I finished the third simulation and we were off to make the first incursion. I have to say, killing assimilated Hakev was quite satisfying to do again...hehe
It did get a little hard to follow when the temporal ship lost it's shielding, though....Did it get blown up and everything reset? How did we get from the assimilated Romulus system back to the Delta Quadrant? I understand that we took out a transwarp gate which just happened to restore the time line more or less, but when the shield failed, wouldn't we still be in the Romulus system in it's current form? We just wouldn't know why because that had become our new reality.
But that's where the "willing suspension of disbelief" kicks in and I just go with it. The last two FE's have been decent, I have to give Cryptic credit there. Much better than the first few of the "Iconian War" FE's, that's for sure. Overall, nice job I think
Now that's funny....LOL!!
Qapla'!
Edit: Grammar and continuity....my brain tends to think faster than my hands can type lol
Co-Founder of TOS Veterans and TOS Qan Mang
This would only work if the timeline we were in before no had nothing to do with the temporal cold war nonsense from ENT which it clearly did given the numerous references to the Xindi events, Suliban Cabal and so on.
If this is truly the case, then this story is even worse than I initially thought.
And it still leaves two gaping plot holes, namely what happened to the Yamato, and how are the Borg still the exact same whimpering losers being kicked around by the Cooperative if they're supposed to be so much better now?
Option 1 - Predestination paradox spanning multiple timelines.
Option 2 - We started the mission in an alternate timeline, we finished in the original one.
1) False. You cannot have a predestination paradox in multiple timelines. That defeats the whole point.
2) False. As I said, the timeline we started the mission in has all the elements affected by the Sphere Builders. The only way this would've possibly worked is if there had been no mention of the temporal cold war until now.
Even then it would be a stretch to say that the Federation came out exactly the same given the heavy interference it caused.
Whilst I'll give you your point on the first, for the second I meant that from the moment you start the mission you're controlling a version of your character from an alternate universe ala Yesterdays Enterprise, you don't take control of the main timeline version of your character until the end when you arrive at the lab in the midst of the news that the temporally shielded computer has records that the weapon was fired twice.
An interesting idea, except for the whole Yamato thing (honestly mentioning that then dropping it is a pretty big deal) and how Noye (aka Sour Krenim Man) now has a beard to show things have totally changed yo when he didn't have one in Broken Circle.
He had the beard at the start of the ep and the end, plus it doesn't take long to grow a beard, a week or 2 of frantically working on this problem all waking hours would easily account for his beard growth.
He has a chin beard at the start, and a full facial beard at the end, clearly meant to imply a change.
Easily explained as not bothering to take care of his appearance because of his wife not existing and him being too focused on his work to care.
Like I said, growing a beard isn't hard, hell, I get that level of growth after a mere week of not shaving.
Do you honestly think Cryptic would change an npc detail just for that? Come on.