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Everything I can think of that's wrong with star trek.
varoid
Member Posts: 71 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Okay, let's start off with the most ridiculous thing in the canon non STO stuff. In star trek first contact, the borg conquer a good portion of the galaxy, travel it to get to Earth, wipe out most of 24th century mankind's fleet, armed with antimatter weapons, with one ship, time travel, then fire like 8 shots at a missile complex and can't blow it up, just steal an F-15 with nukes on it from this century and use that, it'll work a lot faster. xD
Picard may has well of sat there drinking earl gray tea, lol, then 5 hours later he could of said "I'm bored, let's blow up the sphere now", lol.
And where is mankind's surface to air weapons when this stuff is happening? Why attack with just ships? Just have every single country on Earth send up about 1000 photon torpedoes at once, I bet that would do it, Earth's surface is big. If it's too dangerous to have on Earth then just put it on mars or something, we know this sort of thing is possible because in this one episode of enterprise, this guy took over a station with this energy weapon designed to blow up asteroids, and could of taken out the enterprise with like 3% of the weapon's maximum power. Make a 24th century version of this and the borg are pretty much toast, very, very burnt toast. lol
And in star trek voyager, in that episode where they were in this meeting between species and that small fighter started blasting the meeting with a small fighter outside the window and couldn't kill all of them... Let me tell you what I would of done. Instead of firing laser blasts that don't really do any more damage than an A-10's guns, but just look fancier and magically damage shields and hull more than missiles, just have a cave man jump on top of the roof of the building (So that the vibrations or something will make their transporters not work, after all, everything else messes them up), then throw a couple grenades in there from this century. I'm sure that would of got them. xD
And I remember I think in that borg episode of TNG, the borg were winning, and I think riker had decided to go to warp into the borg cube... And I was like "Wait, that would work? Why not just build an autopiloted ship like the enterprise specifically for this sort of thing so there won't be any crew on board, and warp it into the borg cubes whenever they send them? I mean, surely a super dense, football field sized starship that goes 2000 times the speed of light would hurt a lot if it hit you, heck, why not just make your torpedoes bus sized pieces of your densest metal with a warp drive attached to it?"
Anyway, now on to STO.
In bug hunt elite, why do they have to blast the rocks out of the way with explosives, riker said that a phaser could take out half a building for crying out loud, and they need explosives for that? Also, they don't look that high, if not for the invisible wall you could just climb some of them. Better yet, why isn't everyone armed with a pack that lets them hover over stuff? Like a miniature impulse engine on your back? Why not beam past the rocks? Heck, don't even send an away team, just photon torpedo the place from orbit until the spawnmother and all the other bugs are dead. lol, if they're busy with the elachi in orbit or something, how did they lower shields to beam down?
And in brotherhood of the sword, I'm amazed at all the things that the klingons use to fight the super powerful, dyson sphere building 200000 year old iconians, they use basically swords, they release targs (Which are basically dogs) on them... Let me tell you how to fight dogs without even a weapon from this century: Get a megaphone, and when the dog gets near you, scream into it and the dog will probably run. lol
I mean, it's literally more ridiculous than if the US military was attacking with tanks and stuff, and you sent your dog after it, and when the dog bit the tank it exploded, only literally even more ridiculous because of how big dyson spheres are.
Also, in the new featured mission you invade a dyson sphere, and all the iconians send after you are ships... Just have the dyson sphere laser everything. lol, and after you beam on board, fry everyone inside of it with radiation from the dyson sphere, and at the very least, if that iconian queen girl that tries to fight you really had the power to power a dyson sphere (Which is the size of Earth's orbit around the sun I believe, and I think Earth is 8 minutes away from the sun at light speed), it wouldn't be much of a fight, she'd probably just pown you. Also, I thought these guys's dyson spheres could make omega particles, just send one through a gateway to the core of Qonos, Earth, new romulus, ect, and take them out. If they didn't know how to fix subspace afterwards or if they were that dangerous to them they wouldn't use them in their dyson spheres, and in 200000 years they would of destroyed subspace by now.
In fact, the whole iconian thing is kinda ridiculous when you think about it, how does mankind fight these guys? In one thing I read it said because the federation outnumbered them, but they literally darkened the inside of a dyson sphere with ships, you just don't outnumber a species like that, and in 200000 years you think they would of made quite a few ships, lol.
And in star trek nemesis (And any movie which has one giant ship or a ship with a huge advantage fighting the enterprise, and trust me, there are a lot of them, like first contact with the cube, wrath of khan, star trek the motion picture, ect), maybe they could do more damage if their torpedoes weren't like tiny specks compared to their ships, lol. If I was them, I'd always keep one massive torpedo that took up a medium sized portion of their ship by itself, that way if a species like the borg attacked, I could fire it at them and do a lot of damage at once instead of just firing 100 tiny torpedoes in a row. lol
This would be able to actually hold a LOT more energy than it seems, because the volume of the torpedo would be height times width times base or whatever, 3 dimensions, multiplying their size by eachother, so there would be a lot more room in a torpedo like this than their normal ones.
Please, no one get mad at me for making fun of star trek, I actually like star trek, lol.
Picard may has well of sat there drinking earl gray tea, lol, then 5 hours later he could of said "I'm bored, let's blow up the sphere now", lol.
And where is mankind's surface to air weapons when this stuff is happening? Why attack with just ships? Just have every single country on Earth send up about 1000 photon torpedoes at once, I bet that would do it, Earth's surface is big. If it's too dangerous to have on Earth then just put it on mars or something, we know this sort of thing is possible because in this one episode of enterprise, this guy took over a station with this energy weapon designed to blow up asteroids, and could of taken out the enterprise with like 3% of the weapon's maximum power. Make a 24th century version of this and the borg are pretty much toast, very, very burnt toast. lol
And in star trek voyager, in that episode where they were in this meeting between species and that small fighter started blasting the meeting with a small fighter outside the window and couldn't kill all of them... Let me tell you what I would of done. Instead of firing laser blasts that don't really do any more damage than an A-10's guns, but just look fancier and magically damage shields and hull more than missiles, just have a cave man jump on top of the roof of the building (So that the vibrations or something will make their transporters not work, after all, everything else messes them up), then throw a couple grenades in there from this century. I'm sure that would of got them. xD
And I remember I think in that borg episode of TNG, the borg were winning, and I think riker had decided to go to warp into the borg cube... And I was like "Wait, that would work? Why not just build an autopiloted ship like the enterprise specifically for this sort of thing so there won't be any crew on board, and warp it into the borg cubes whenever they send them? I mean, surely a super dense, football field sized starship that goes 2000 times the speed of light would hurt a lot if it hit you, heck, why not just make your torpedoes bus sized pieces of your densest metal with a warp drive attached to it?"
Anyway, now on to STO.
In bug hunt elite, why do they have to blast the rocks out of the way with explosives, riker said that a phaser could take out half a building for crying out loud, and they need explosives for that? Also, they don't look that high, if not for the invisible wall you could just climb some of them. Better yet, why isn't everyone armed with a pack that lets them hover over stuff? Like a miniature impulse engine on your back? Why not beam past the rocks? Heck, don't even send an away team, just photon torpedo the place from orbit until the spawnmother and all the other bugs are dead. lol, if they're busy with the elachi in orbit or something, how did they lower shields to beam down?
And in brotherhood of the sword, I'm amazed at all the things that the klingons use to fight the super powerful, dyson sphere building 200000 year old iconians, they use basically swords, they release targs (Which are basically dogs) on them... Let me tell you how to fight dogs without even a weapon from this century: Get a megaphone, and when the dog gets near you, scream into it and the dog will probably run. lol
I mean, it's literally more ridiculous than if the US military was attacking with tanks and stuff, and you sent your dog after it, and when the dog bit the tank it exploded, only literally even more ridiculous because of how big dyson spheres are.
Also, in the new featured mission you invade a dyson sphere, and all the iconians send after you are ships... Just have the dyson sphere laser everything. lol, and after you beam on board, fry everyone inside of it with radiation from the dyson sphere, and at the very least, if that iconian queen girl that tries to fight you really had the power to power a dyson sphere (Which is the size of Earth's orbit around the sun I believe, and I think Earth is 8 minutes away from the sun at light speed), it wouldn't be much of a fight, she'd probably just pown you. Also, I thought these guys's dyson spheres could make omega particles, just send one through a gateway to the core of Qonos, Earth, new romulus, ect, and take them out. If they didn't know how to fix subspace afterwards or if they were that dangerous to them they wouldn't use them in their dyson spheres, and in 200000 years they would of destroyed subspace by now.
In fact, the whole iconian thing is kinda ridiculous when you think about it, how does mankind fight these guys? In one thing I read it said because the federation outnumbered them, but they literally darkened the inside of a dyson sphere with ships, you just don't outnumber a species like that, and in 200000 years you think they would of made quite a few ships, lol.
And in star trek nemesis (And any movie which has one giant ship or a ship with a huge advantage fighting the enterprise, and trust me, there are a lot of them, like first contact with the cube, wrath of khan, star trek the motion picture, ect), maybe they could do more damage if their torpedoes weren't like tiny specks compared to their ships, lol. If I was them, I'd always keep one massive torpedo that took up a medium sized portion of their ship by itself, that way if a species like the borg attacked, I could fire it at them and do a lot of damage at once instead of just firing 100 tiny torpedoes in a row. lol
This would be able to actually hold a LOT more energy than it seems, because the volume of the torpedo would be height times width times base or whatever, 3 dimensions, multiplying their size by eachother, so there would be a lot more room in a torpedo like this than their normal ones.
Please, no one get mad at me for making fun of star trek, I actually like star trek, lol.
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Well it should be realistic to SOME degree, lol. I mean really, for crying out loud, the borg not being able to even blow up a missile complex, after TIME TRAVELING, kinda unrealistic. xD
And not just weapons either, howcome in star trek 2009 when kirk caught that guy then opened his parachute, it BROKE? I mean really, they can fly at warp speeds, but they can't make a parachute hold two people? lol
I mean, you'd think considering they have the power to bend space enough to travel that fast, they'd have better parachutes. lol
What's next, will a shuttlecraft be flying, and all of the sudden some small thing will get caught in the engines and crash the ship? (Oh wait, that happened too when kirk THREW A GUN at a shuttlecraft khan was on, it got in the engine, and blew it up or something, heck, forget fancy space guns and antimatter weapons, why don't they just throw random objects out their windows and have them hit stuff instead? Just find some rocks, and throw them. lol, literally so easy a cave man can do it)
One thing that snagged my eye, however - you appear to be confusing a Dyson shell (a habitable structure the size of a planetary orbit, completely surrounding a star in order to capture all of its radiant energy) with the Death Star. Dyson shells don't "just laser everything". They don't have some Star Wars superlaser in a giant dish. They are habitats, pure and simple (that require more resources to build than are available in a single star system, but whatever, it's not Trek's biggest departure from known physics).
Your other errors appear to be similar in nature - that is, confusing something you saw in Trek over the top of your beer with something vaguely similar in overall appearance that you saw somewhere else when you also weren't really paying attention.
Has for the A-10 thing, did you see that episode of voyager? That kazon ship fired lasers through a window and blew it open, but then couldn't kill the people inside, even though they didn't have personal shields, I mean come on, at least an A-10 could of just fired a missile in there at them and killed them, hiding under a table shouldn't work against a futuristic species like that. lol
And tell me, if the borg weapons that fired on that missile complex were sooo advanced and more powerful than an aircraft with nukes, then why were the explosions so much smaller? Nuclear explosions are literally like 50 million degrees I think I read somewhere, I garuntee you, unless there was some kind of super material, if an F-15 fired one of those at it, zephram cochrein would of died on the first hit. lol
Why would the Iconians mount defensive weapons on a Dyson shell? You're talking about something bigger than entire star systems - attacking even the relatively small Solonae sphere would have done about as much good as trying to destroy the planet Earth with a single fighter craft. Unless the Iconians left an unshielded secondary thermal vent just below the main vent, any assault against it would be utterly pointless.
And as for "the A-10 thing", as you put it - do you seriously propose that I should believe the Kazon could hit anything with their lasers? They couldn't find water, for Sagan's sake!
Has for why they would arm the dyson shell thing, considering how determined they've been to enslave the humans and stuff, I would assume all their stuff would be armed with at least something. lol
So basically what this turns into is the borg are VERY careless, and the iconians can make unbelievably ginormous things, but for some reason haven't made a ginormous thing to kill the humans with yet, so they really must just be holding back. xD
Has for the kazon, that's another good point I just thought of, they can hit voyager hard enough to wear it down (Even if most of the damage being done was by some guy poking himself with something and making an explosion, you'd think their hull would be too strong for anything they could of done that with), but they can't find water? And if they have space travel to even catch voyager, how DID they not find any place/way to get water? xD
That's the only way I can force that part of the story to make the least bit of sense. Same as I have to treat Janeway as having fulfilled the Peter Principle, being put in command of a ship because she was the right rank and because it was peacetime at the time; she probably would have been fine if Starfleet Command had been there to backstop her every decision, but being out of touch she proved to be utterly incompetent as a starship commander.
And the kazon wouldn't of had to be very accurate if their former masters had armed it better, if the ship that attacked the conference was armed so powerfully that one of their lasers could vaporize the entire room (And more, depending on the material of the building), it wouldn't of had to hit them, it would of just had to hit the wall behind it, and boom, the explosion would reach under the table and vaporize them. :P
I think people just don't want to admit that star trek makes less sense sometimes than a pink elephant with orange traffic cones all over it and exclamation points painted on it, running through a street on it's hind legs while screaming in a helium voice "There's something wrong with me! There's something wrong with me! There's something weird about me!" (I know, that's random, but hey, my point was for it not to make sense, so :P)
Water is the most abundant compound in the universe; its consists of the 1st and 3rd most abundant elements, hydrogen and oxygen (helium is the 2nd most abundant element). Water in liquid form is common on Earth, but on other planetary bodies in the Solar System it is usually present as vapour or ice.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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1.scanners may not be completely accurate after just emerging from time travel. it may have only been a few seconds since the ent-e noticed the borg firing at the missile complex in montana. weapons also dont travel in a straight line on a planet when there is enough wind speed. ww1 and ww2 bombers were notorious for missing their targets.
2. it also could of been a simple carpet bombing from space by the borg to nullify resistance in the area and then beam a device to the missile itself to destroy it in the silo. if the borg use plasma torpedo weapons, the chances are they have a concussive impact, explode in a radius of superheated plasma and the local area is torched for a short time.
4. its also possible the borg wanted to eliminate the lifesigns as a cluster of lifesigns would make it harder to locate the missile they were after.
i doubt picard is "that" arrogant even though he is arrogant, not so far in the clouds that he would leave those people to die especially what he saw going through time with a borgified earth...
earth at this point just recently emerged from ww3, the chances are that there would of been significant damage to ground installations, enough that a space attack could happen. besides that, conventional rockets would have no impact on a 24th century borg sphere. they barely had any impact on an alien ship early into enterprises mission with captain archer. at this point a colony on the moon was still a pipe dream as the warp drive had yet to become a reality.
what episode was this? i dont not have a clue...
a massive proton anti proton explosion followed by a quick matter anti-matter explosion and then a general large yield explosion, i doubt even the borg can adapt to that type of catastropic damage, and at high speed it would put a hole right in the middle of the cube. a simple desperate do or die attempt that was abruptly cut short in the 11th hour.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
Has for the one about Picard, my joke wasn't that he was arrogant, the point was to exxagerate how little damage the borg were doing (By saying that he could of taken his time and the missile complex would still be there)
Has for the surface to air thing, I meant in the 24th century before the borg went back in time, why did mankind only send ships?
And my point with the warp drive thing was why they had to have this be a last resort, if they had had an unmanned ship set by autopilot to warp into the cube, no humans would of had to die to do it, they could of just obliterated the cube that way.
Anyway, has for mark, I don't remember the exact plot of the episode, I just remember near the end a small kazon ship is outside a window firing lasers through the window. But what you said sounds about right.
The real question is - if the Borg are after technology, why attack the Earth in the 21st century, when we just have one (untested) warp-prototype yet?
Otherwise - I figure after WW3, there isn't exactly an all-day surveillance system around Earth. And it's even doubtful that a ground-based missile could even get to the Borg ship. They are not build to target stuff in orbit, especially not stuff with shields (tech not even invented yet), potential counter-measure weapons and high maneuverability. I am sure you could send a nuke to explode in the atmosphere or above it, and any innocent satellites in the area would probably be helpless. But we're talking about a space ship. It's a bit like using medieval catapults to shoot at an F22 in supercruise, except the F22 might even survive if you'd miraculously hit.
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Why do we blow up rock with explosives instead of using phasers that supposedly can level buildings?
Because those are Space Rocks. And space rocks are resilient to space phasers, and you need space explosives to blow them up (normal 21st century explosives aren't space explosives and wouldn't do, either.)
Another thing, I wasn't talking about having the 21st century people attack the sphere after it went back in time, I'm talking about having the 24th century people on 24th century Earth fire torpedoes from the ground to blow up the borg before they can get to the 21st century. I mean which is more powerful, starships, or an entire planet?
Why launch from ground? In space as platforms you dont even needto bypass the atmosphere, it is closer, no need to compensate for the atmosphere either. Starfleet even have a Defence perimeter somewhere between Mars and Jupiter to defend the inner planets.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
And why not have it go faster than light? I imagine an unmanned piece of super dense metal the size of the enterprise hitting something hard enough to travel the galaxy would hurt quite a bit more than just a fraction of the speed of light. :P
If the problem with that would be relativity would cause it to destroy the universe, then how can they warp drive at all without hitting a piece of space dust and doing that? No matter the size of the object, if it's mass is multiplied by infinity, it's still infinite. :P
Also, area is length times width, TIMES, that means the massive area on Earth is actually a lot bigger than you'd think, and torpedoes wouldn't take up much of it. If it's not safe to have on Earth, put it on mars. Heck, they could make their starships better at this too, why have only like 4 places to launch torpedoes from or whatever? Why not just put torpedo things all over their ship? xD
lol, space is really really big and starfleet has to cover lots of it, why would the fleet ever be concentrated anywhere near Earth? Sector 001 is supposed to be safe; even the Jupiter perimeter defense is a leftover from the Klingon War back before Kirk's time. What you saw defending Earth in First Contact was what could get there in time, just as in the Battle of Wolf 359 in "Best of Both Worlds" what was there wasn't all of the Fleet, just what could be gathered.
If you put all the people of Earth to work building photon torpedoes, it'd never get done, because most people aren't trained for that, and because United Earth isn't into slave labor. There'd be strikes, there'd be protests, and it would not be accomplished. And even if it were, having torpedoes doesn't mean being able to launch them - they have to be transported to a launching platform first. They don't launch themselves, you know. That's as silly an idea as proposing that the entire population of the United States should have been put to work building tanks in WWII.
And this thing about having purpose-built unmanned warp ships for the specific purpose of ramming Borg cubes - are you under the impression that having the Borg attack is a daily thing in Federation space? Why in the name of sanity would anyone devote the resources to build such a ship with only one purpose, when that purpose comes up so very rarely?
Edit: Oh, hey, I missed one! Objects traveling at warp are not traveling in Einsteinian space; FTL in normal space is not possible, as it would require greater-than-infinite energy. Ramming at warp speed would be remarkably akin to trying to shoot down an incoming missile with a movie projection of a bullet.
Of course, I should expect no better from someone who thinks the A-10 is the be-all and end-all of aerospace combat technology...
2:warp drive doesn't add kinetic energy. The Torpedos own kinetic energy probably only comes from it plasma exhaust. The sustainer and warp drives bend the space time itself. In short; you dont move around in space, space moves around you. As for weapons, UFP have defence perimeter between Mars and Jupiter.
As for the torpedo tubes. Well why dont the Burke-class have torpedo launcher everywhere? Oh does Akira count?
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Considering how often they get invaded by aliens, you'd think they'd want Earth has safe has possible, if I was them then I'd focus quite a few more ships near Earth. And also, even if they can't cover the entire Earth in torpedoes, you'd think they'd at least have SOME form of ground to space torpedoes for when the fleet isn't nearby, the US military has tons of F-15s and stuff, but they also keep ground to air stuff too.
And if ramming at warp speed was that impossible and did that little damage, why would riker have almost used it against the borg?
Has for the A-10 thing, I don't think it's the most powerful, but it sure has heck could of done better killing a few people in a meeting than that kazon ship did. xD
If the kazon didn't want to put their represenative in danger, they sure did a lame job, they hit everything in the whole room it seems like except for all their targets. xD
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Ramming something while under warp drive would indeed be pointless, as you're not even occupying the same physical universe as the object you wish to ram.
OMG!!! its , its, its BEAUTIFUL its a great wall of text we can even see this from space its....AMAAAAZING!!!