Sets or not and DHC's or beams on an escort?

hydraface · July 2015

Hello all. These seem to be questions that come up often, and the answers seem to vary after each patch and event and of course, often depends upon who's being asked! I'd like to hear any up-to-date opinions on some common questions relating to how to make your chosen tool of destruction as effective at killing other ships as possible.

So I'd ask a few things things: Firstly, are console-and-weapon type sets worth it? I know I love the Kobali Deflector/Engine/Shield set, its survivability boosts have been invaluable on my Defiant. But then there's the console-and-weapon sets that offer juicy bonuses if you use combinations of gear from a specific set, this being a bit different because it takes up console and weapon slots that could be otherwise used.

Right now, I'm using the Protonic Arsenal kit for the critical chance-and-damage boost; might my weapons be more effective if I just loaded up on Dual-Heavy Cannons or Dual-Beam Banks of my chosen type weapon type, having them benefit from a rack full of tactical-console damage-boosting relays? Are any of the the bonuses offered by some of the sets effective enough to make them worth having over a 'straight flush' of same-type weapons and consoles?

Next up, Dual-Heavy Cannons or Dual-Beam banks on my T5-U Defiant? There are lots of discussions, many focussing on how DBB's seem to be great at the moment, but I'm still very unclear as to how to actual firing sequence mechanics work, whether torpedoes are ever really worth it, and is it just best to load all four forward slots with DHC's, DBB's or a mix of both?

Thanks in advance for any help y'all can offer!

kodachikuno · July 2015

personally, Im a fan of CRF and Double Cannons...provides a non-stop stream of death for several seconds. I'm beginning to really loose my love for DHC because of it.

Unknown · July 2015

This content has been removed.

hydraface · July 2015

Ok, thanks for making the distinction between PvP and PvE effectiveness. I understand what you're saying, they are two different things. Further to that, I'll clarify that yes, it's PvE/episode effectiveness I crave, PvP is not something I will indludge in.

Having said that, I'm not giving up my Quad-phaser cannon for the moment! I love the sound and visual effects and it ain't a Defiant without it!

peterconnorfirst · July 2015

I can’t answer all your questions and leave some for the DPS experts. I managed 40k in runs with beams as well as cannons. Beams are probably the best you can set up if you want high DPS cuz it’s simply the easiest way to deliver it with FAW and much lower range damage drop. Cannons are more fun for me though. And yea, especially if you look at a ship with a high turn rate DBB with Omnis in back get extremely potent there and are an interesting option for me to get fun game play as well as high numbers.

As far as sets go literally all I have encountered in game give you an advantage on the one hand but also a disadvantage on the other. This should be evaluated carefully and for each build individually (exception is probably stuff like KCB + Assimilated Module, Nukara shield and Deflector or the new Iconian space set which will make you more offensive in any case with slim to none downsides to the defences).

As far as your Protonic Arsenal Set works, yea it had its merit when it was released in season 8 I think. I also got it on a lot of toons to augment my crit rate but with more and more additions to game replaced it on almost all toons again. Simply because there are better options around to get your crits on feds in the 25%+ and for romiis in the 30%+ reach. The arsenal stuff takes too much valuable space on my ships. The console isn’t that good by itself, the protonic weapon one of the worst around. The torpedo played a key role on my NWS quests but is hardly the best in game either.

Sure I use sets, the Counter Command one with turret and console. But only because I fly disruptor cannon build and the disruptor boost reads that high on the tool tips that it seems to equal the addition of a 6th tac console.

Sets remain tricky cuz the bonuses are confusing and not equivalent on different ones. Game meta also changes quiet a lot as of late and we get new stuff hit in our face on a monthly basis. In light of the upgrade process tinkering around with sets to test and experiment gets frustrating.

Suggestion, make and example build on STO Academy with your preferances and link it here. That way the community can give advise in more detail.

seriousdave · July 2015

Both are viable in PvE, it's just that AoE Spam is unfortunately the more effective way 'cause cryptic is very fond of throwing hordes of "cannon"-fodder at us. Also with the recent update the [DMG] mod did gain some usability, so those quad-cannons may be rather neat now.

As far as sets go it really depends on the rest of your ship. For the most part anything above 2pc bonuses is a waste since the last piece/s it takes for the bonuses rarely synergize with your build.

Just take the delta set for an example. The torpedo is one of the best in the game, the console is so-so, the beam and cannon are garbage for most builds. The 2pc is rather nice but the 3pc not so much since you need to slot a garbage wepaon and need crazy aux & partigen to make it worth it.

adamkafei · July 2015

On DHCs vs Beams, beams are king, there is no dispute about that but DHCs will still get single target kills faster if that's what you want to build for. Sets don't tend to be good beyond two piece bonuses and you should consider these things carefully as they are a large investment, I tend to build a ship first and then get set and universal gear that boost my existing stats or if I'm doing something like a disable build then I want consoles that give me rare stats like subspace decompiler.

Basically, build something that suits your playstyle using basic gear, then add universal and set gear and bonuses that enhance that.

hydraface · July 2015

Ok, here's a better look at what I have at the moment:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=quadphaserdefiant_0

I want to swap all of the relays for vulnerability locators (in good time), and the main thing I'm umming and ahh-ing about is Protonic weapon, whether to chuck a torpedo in there, and how to most optimise them consoles.

questerius · July 2015

hydraface wrote: »

Ok, here's a better look at what I have at the moment:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=quadphaserdefiant_0

I want to swap all of the relays for vulnerability locators (in good time), and the main thing I'm umming and ahh-ing about is Protonic weapon, whether to chuck a torpedo in there, and how to most optimise them consoles.

Do you realize that your weapon types are all over the place with a mix of phaser and AP?

seriousdave · July 2015

Aside from the omni AP beam which is probably a (bad) substitue for an omni-phaser, TRIBBLE the proton weapon.
It srsly is not worth it, especially on the front where you could replace it with a DHC or DBB which would actually be boosted by our tac consoles.
Or at least use the grav torp to keep the 2pc set or the neutronic for some hitting power with spread 2 or 3. Also anything above Tac Team 1 is a wasted slot and without like EptW 1 or 2 your pwerdrain will kill all potenital damage output.

For your sci seat.
Photonic officer does not reduce the shared cooldown from duplicate abilities and since you already run everything except delta2 twice it's completely poitnless. Use something like sci team so you've got at least 1 shield heal.

Also just in general, stick to a weapon type. That beam, DBB, DHC mix is terrible and completly inefficent and is probably the reason why your boffs are somewhat messy.

peterconnorfirst · July 2015

seriousdave wrote: »

Or at least use the grav torp to keep the 2pc set or the neutronic for some hitting power

Think this a particularly good advice because of the Defiant’s so many tac slots.

If you do you could consider:

Tac Commander: Tac Team, ts2, csv2 OR faw3, ap beta3
Tac Lt. Commander: Tac Team, csv1 OR faw2, ap beta2
Tac Team: ts1

All main offensives would be on global cd giving u best uptime. 2x omega instead of beta would work as well but has much longer shared CD and could be used if tractor beams trouble you often.

You have to out weight carefully what offensive and defensive skills you like to have in your few Sci n Engineering Boff slots. Sci Team & Eng Team both are cool and have cheap doffs around to shorten cd. HE is a must have for borg STF and I often find reverse shield polarity helpful when I overestimate myself in a bad pug.

Others things to consider:

If u settle for phasers pls. get rid of the ancient obelisk sets and make your choice in DBB or Cannons. If dealing damage while staying alive is on your mind pls consider:

1) Nukara Deflector + Romulan Engine (NOT Reman) + Nukara Shield + Elite fleet spire warp core with W->Aux (NOT w->s!) AND the AMP mod on it. The stuff is easy to get.

2) A bit harder but perhaps strongest to get would be: Ico Defelctor + Romulan Engine + Ico Shield + Ico Core BUT with a focus on the expensive core rarity upgrade to get AMP mod

3) Full Ico Set.

Other strong and easy accessible gear are Embassy Plasma consoles granting you plasma explosions.

If Zen and/or EC isn’t a problem for you pls tell cuz there are quiet a few hardcore traits, doffs and consoles around which have a more of an pay to win character but are immensely good. (eg. Plasmonic Leech, Inspirational Leader, Reciprocy, All hands on deck, Zemok….)

Edit: If you decide on getting the Tier 6 Defiant when it releases pls. expect it to have a good cannon trait.

seaofsorrows · July 2015

hydraface wrote: »

Ok, here's a better look at what I have at the moment:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=quadphaserdefiant_0

I want to swap all of the relays for vulnerability locators (in good time), and the main thing I'm umming and ahh-ing about is Protonic weapon, whether to chuck a torpedo in there, and how to most optimise them consoles.

Ok, please don't take this as being rude because the only intent here is to be brutally honest with the intent to help you. That being said..

That build is a mess.

questerius and seriousdave had some good points that are very helpful, but the build has many problems.

1. You really should pick an energy type and stick with it. You said you're going to get all Locators, that's great. Whatever energy type your locators are set to buff, all your weapons should be that type (Phaser, Disrupter, etc.)

2. Your Bridge Officer skills are all over the place. You have 2 copies of Fire At Will and one copy of Overload. All 3 of these share a cooldown meaning one of those abilities will never ever fire. You're far better off choosing Beams OR Cannons.. not both. Since that ship will have left over Tactical slots, you can feel free to throw in a front Torpedo Launcher for extra punch. The Torpedo skills do not share cooldown with the Beam or Cannon skills.

3. You double up Engineering team and have no Emergency Powers at all. Consider changing out both for Emergency Power to Shields 1 and Emergency Power to Weapons 2. You can get your heals from Science Abilities.

4. You're running a Flow Capacitor console which does nothing on your build. You have no drain abilities at all, the console does nothing.

5. Consider changing Photonic Officer for Science Team 2. This would give you a shield heal and a cleanse for Science debuffs.

Those are good places to start. Consider either Dual Beam Banks or Dual Cannons/Dual heavy Cannons up front with turrets in the back. This would allow you to fire all 7 weapons at once on anything in your forward arc. If you like the proc from the Borg 2 piece, that's fine.. use 2 turrets and a Cutting Beam. If the Kobali stuff works for you for survivability, then cool, but you can ditch the Flow Caps and rework your BoFF skills to really help your build.

Hopefully, that gets you started on the right track. Then we can move on to things like Space DoFFs, Traits, etc.

I did a quick revamp as an example that you can see by clicking here.

The beams are just the Undine Rep Beams, easy to get. I don't know much about Torpedos (I don't use them,) so there might be a better choice then what I picked. I used that one because it pairs with the Turret for a +10% Phaser Damage boost.

Sets or not and DHC's or beams on an escort?

Comments