The fleet system is depressing, and I don't get what Armadas are supposed to accomplish.

heavensrun

I came to this game with a bunch of friends from CoH, basically looking for refuge after our hometown was bulldozed.

All the friends that used to play this game with me have become disillusioned and left. Our fleet, which was basically always doomed to stall out at tier 2 or 3, is a ghost town. All the little bits of flavor my friends and I put into it are completely wasted, and the resources spent on it would pretty much universally have been better spent on rep gear or DOFFs or literally anything else.

I'm pretty much alone in this game now. It's depressing. Our crappy tier 2 fleet has long since stopped developing, and I've been wrestling with the decision to maybe ditch the fleet and join a larger group, because this game doesn't seem to give a TRIBBLE about small groups of friends that just want to hang out and team together.

I don't get it. I don't get big guilds, big fleets, in MMOs. It doesn't make any sense to me. I play these games to connect with friends. You know, people that I -know- and -like-. I don't understand why there are gameplay systems in place that encourage people to gang up with big groups of strangers. Part of that is me psychologically. I have anxiety issues and large groups bug me. I've always preferred small groups of close friends to large groups of acquaintances. Nothing makes me feel more isolated then a big room full of people I barely know.

So here come armadas, which are being vaunted by the devs as the solution to the small fleet problem, and...So your solution to the fact that my friends and I didn't want to join a giant conglomerate of strangers is to have us join a giant conglomerate of strangers. Whaaat exactly is the point of that? What is the point of a bunch of small fleets banding together? If they wanted to do that, they could've just made a big fleet to begin with!

And even if my pathetic little 2 tier nothing fleet with one active member and nothing to contribute finds a bigger group to alpha us (assuming I could get anybody to come back), I don't really get what benefit this brings to us. I mean, sure, maybe we meet some awesome generous fleet that wants to just help fill up all our projects for fleet credits or whatever. That sure sounds like a swell incredibly unlikely outcome there.

I just don't get it.

iconians

It's nice to see someone else from CoH show up here. CoH is also where I came from, but before the game unfortunately shut down.

I get what you are saying 100% and you are asking the same questions I continue to ask myself regarding the Armada system. The unfortunate reality is I don't have any sociological answers for you. I also suffer from anxiety and I prefer small groups, tranquility, peace and quiet, and most importantly... drama-free. I have had a very bad experiences with the rest of our species, and it's left me distanced, jaded, and cynical. As a result, my fleet is similarly in my position of wanting to cut the BS and simply having a project a bunch of like-minded players can work towards.

We're T4 and it seems we've been stuck on the road to T5 for over two years. I have at this point more or less given up on seeing a realistic turn-over of fleet projects. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Armada system but I'm going in expecting the system to be incredibly short-sighted because of Cryptic's habit of expecting the best in people and working on the honor system... rather than admit human beings are horrible creatures by nature.

However, the main thing is that for T5 fleets, this becomes more of a luxury -- as they already have everything, they benefit by getting larger skill point bonuses for their fleet members, meaning faster spec points (which are already dismal).

For the rest of us... we're really just waiting and seeing. I see on paper how this system will work out, but the social aspect of the Armada system is not going to be fully realized until long after it's been implemented in the game.

As I now lead my fleet, the way I see it... if this system ends up being more trouble than it's worth, nothing is stopping me from withdrawing my fleet from any Armadas until I find the right one for us -- or Cryptic is quick on making changes.

The fleet system, in comparison to the T6 ships they've released and other reputation equipment, doffs, and other shinies from FEs and what have you... really does not have the selling point to get to T5 as it once did.

I really have no issue admitting that the rewards for getting to T5 status are simply not worth the hassle of burning yourself out trying to get there, and more importantly... not worth dealing with egomaniacal sociopaths who will try to push you around.

I will do things my own way if I have to, I have so far.

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heavensrun

Except small fleets banding together is absolutely useless, because it doesn't gain anything. Small fleets have to rely on the charity of large fleets in this system, and I still don't see much that would encourage large fleets to help out small fleets when they can get better XP bonuses by grouping with other large fleets. And even if I could, this basically means I'm being herded into effectively joining a large fleet, which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place. Small fleets are generally small for social reasons. If I wanted to interact with a large fleet, I would've just joined one.

Edit: I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful for your insight, this system just doesn't fit me, and it's on top of another system that didn't fit me, in a game that I want to love but have been getting continuously frustrated with over various reasons for the past several months. Plus I'm in a mood tonight.

where2r1

Hi, heavensrun...my name is Mary.

I think all of us who have been playing STO with friends have had this passing through our minds, too....just not brave enough to say it on the Forums, as you are.

I am just hoping that the Devs can get traits and powers and T-6 Ships and network issues straightened out. Get rid of all the lag and rubberbanding and disconnects that has driven away my friend. Or, rather, he's still around (Flying High to get the Nandi on all his Alts) but that is IT. He is spending lot less time playing this game.

Being that there are only 2 of us in the fleet to start off with, it is a significant number! He IS the other half of my fleet. I doubt we will be participating in the Armada system. I was dazzled by the glow of the words "dilithium discount"....but realize, now, it was just a lure.

I am worried about how much of a mess is going to be introduced into this game program with the Armada system, too. And not just on performance, but on the community "feel"....not to say it has ever been all that great but it has gone through so much upheaval. Especially, lately. (And that is kinda understating it)

tehbubbaloo

heavensrun wrote: »

...I'm pretty much alone in this game now. It's depressing. Our crappy tier 2 fleet has long since stopped developing, and I've been wrestling with the decision to maybe ditch the fleet and join a larger group, because this game doesn't seem to give a TRIBBLE about small groups of friends that just want to hang out and team together.

I don't get it. I don't get big guilds, big fleets, in MMOs. It doesn't make any sense to me. I play these games to connect with friends. You know, people that I -know- and -like-. I don't understand why there are gameplay systems in place that encourage people to gang up with big groups of strangers. Part of that is me psychologically. I have anxiety issues and large groups bug me. I've always preferred small groups of close friends to large groups of acquaintances. Nothing makes me feel more isolated then a big room full of people I barely know.

So here come armadas, which are being vaunted by the devs as the solution to the small fleet problem, and...So your solution to the fact that my friends and I didn't want to join a giant conglomerate of strangers is to have us join a giant conglomerate of strangers. Whaaat exactly is the point of that? What is the point of a bunch of small fleets banding together? If they wanted to do that, they could've just made a big fleet to begin with...

there are many things that people seem to enjoy in sto that doesnt interest me much. i dont understand the draw of rp, for example. im not really into the queues or doing dps runs, and the episode missions pretty much put me to sleep. some people will level toon after toon after toon. others will spend their entire game-time playing with a myriad of ship builds. for some people sto is all about the crafting. others find their endgame spent on the bridge of their cell ship manipulating the exchange.

the only thing i seem to enjoy in sto anymore is fleet building. i like large fleets, but i am not a particularly social person. im a traditional introverted personality-type, and i am perfectly happy to go an entire day without needing to talk to anybody in sto or even in rl. too many /tells and i start to get agitated... to me, the draw is the logistics and resource management that go along with managing fleets. thats my 'game', and i am not doing it to be social.

as far as the armada goes, the way the xp bonus (alpha) rewards the person while the dil input rewards the fleet (gamma), surely armada members will want to move their most active toons into the alpha fleet... it looks as if this is simply a cleverly named merger function. and in regards to those trickle-down down donations, i think your reference to them as 'charity' may be a bit jaded. members of large fleets have a lot of trouble generating fleet credit, and they will likely view the gamma fleets as an opportunity to pick up some fleet credit rather than 'charity'.

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mustrumridcully0

heavensrun wrote: »

Except small fleets banding together is absolutely useless, because it doesn't gain anything. Small fleets have to rely on the charity of large fleets in this system, and I still don't see much that would encourage large fleets to help out small fleets when they can get better XP bonuses by grouping with other large fleets. And even if I could, this basically means I'm being herded into effectively joining a large fleet, which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place. Small fleets are generally small for social reasons. If I wanted to interact with a large fleet, I would've just joined one.

Edit: I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful for your insight, this system just doesn't fit me, and it's on top of another system that didn't fit me, in a game that I want to love but have been getting continuously frustrated with over various reasons for the past several months. Plus I'm in a mood tonight.

Even small fleets banding together helps, since there are also Dilithium price reductions.


Also, large fleets banding together gives them extra XP, but they still can't get rid of their fleet marks and Dilithium to earn Fleet Credits, since there are still too many donors.

It seems to me that you are likely to benefit in some way, even if you are not able to pick the best possible option.

As long, of course, as you can keep it drama-free. Since there isn't actually much to do together in an Armada other than joining it, it should be not that hard to avoid drama.

as far as the armada goes, the way the xp bonus (alpha) rewards the person while the dil input rewards the fleet (gamma), surely armada members will want to move their most active toons into the alpha fleet... it looks as if this is simply a cleverly named merger function. and in regards to those trickle-down down donations, i think your reference to them as 'charity' may be a bit jaded. members of large fleets have a lot of trouble generating fleet credit, and they will likely view the gamma fleets as an opportunity to pick up some fleet credit rather than 'charity'.

Exactly. Getting fleet credits can be hard in two ways:
- Gathering the resource you can turn into fleet credits.
- Finding projects where you can turn in the resource.

I definitely think it's not a charity. For large fleets with busy members, creating Fleet Credits is the challenge.

rtgtheexile

the armada system seems to be an ideal opportunity for guys such as yourselves, in my humble opinion. If you can ally yourself with a fleet that genuinely wants to help the smaller fleets advance for everyone in the armada's benefit, as we do here at STG, you have access to a massive pool of potential contributors without the need to constantly manage a large number of people. Interaction between fleets can be as much or as little as you want, so if you want to just go quietly about your business in STO there's nothing stopping as long as the Armada you join doesn't set any particular rules about it - and why would they, fleets should be agreeing to help each other out (again, in my view), and not for one to become subserviant to the other.

heavensrun

rtgtheexile wrote: »

the armada system seems to be an ideal opportunity for guys such as yourselves, in my humble opinion. If you can ally yourself with a fleet that genuinely wants to help the smaller fleets advance for everyone in the armada's benefit, as we do here at STG, you have access to a massive pool of potential contributors without the need to constantly manage a large number of people. Interaction between fleets can be as much or as little as you want, so if you want to just go quietly about your business in STO there's nothing stopping as long as the Armada you join doesn't set any particular rules about it - and why would they, fleets should be agreeing to help each other out (again, in my view), and not for one to become subserviant to the other.

Eh, maybe you're right. I don't have a lot of slack for this game at this point. My friends have generally moved on, my fleet is pretty much -just- my fleet, but I hate to ditch it. It's hard to see positives anymore.