That "conference" was one of the most contrived pieces of plot exposition I've ever seen. There's simply no plausible reason for the Iconians to meet in the middle of nowhere and explain their plans and motivations to eachother as if they didn't know all that before.
Unless...it was an elaborate set-up, they knew the player was there and they fed us misinformation to get us to do something. Curious.
It was either a really stupid scene or a really clever one. Time will tell.
That "conference" was one of the most contrived pieces of plot exposition I've ever seen. There's simply no plausible reason for the Iconians to meet in the middle of nowhere and explain their plans and motivations to eachother as if they didn't know all that before.
Unless...it was an elaborate set-up, they knew the player was there and they fed us misinformation to get us to do something. Curious.
It was either a really stupid scene or a really clever one. Time will tell.
Yeah, really weak presented exposition.
Even if it is a plot twist in the end, our characters would be pretty dumb to just accept that the supposed remainder of the Iconian species beams into potential enemy territory to hold a meeting over basically nothing new to themselves.
Also, why the hell is that moon still in orbit, when the planet was removed from space-time? Okay, gravitation might in fact be a 11th-dimensional quantum substrate, so the planet could still affect the gravitational forces in that system even half a second "sidetracked" from the main timeline... but given that Cryptic thought that far... why are the Iconians not detecting that something is still holding that moon in orbit?
The Iconians don't really understand distance or spatial relations. They overlooked the planet's gravity because, well, gravity controlling the movements of planets isn't something they've needed to think about (or even know about).
Same for the meeting. The Heralds said there was no one there, and the Iconians could just leave if something did attack. So why not hold the meeting there? It's no different from any other place, and at least one was already there on business.
The Iconians don't really understand distance or spatial relations. They overlooked the planet's gravity because, well, gravity controlling the movements of planets isn't something they've needed to think about (or even know about).
Same for the meeting. The Heralds said there was no one there, and the Iconians could just leave if something did attack. So why not hold the meeting there? It's no different from any other place, and at least one was already there on business.
Sela's statement that the Iconians have no concept of space was strange to begin with, though.
If every point in space is the same to them, how come M'tara orders the Heralds to "depart"?
They need to have "some" grasp of the reality they want to rule. Given their almost magical tech-level, basic understanding of gravity and solar systems should not be beyond them.
Also, M'tara is supposedly a master of gravity manipulation.
Gravity has a profound effect on space, time and maybe even other dimensions. No super-advanced cilization can be oblivious to its effects.
This is a long-shot, but maybe the Iconians weren't entirely in their right minds without really realizing it? We know there were temporal anomalies on the non-Krenim side of the temporal synchronization, even leaving aside the potential undetected effects of there being an entire settlement not quite in the same time-frame there, and the Iconians do supposedly have that memory-scrambling reaction to being exposed to time-travel. Perhaps we were looking and listening in to Iconians with, in that place and that time, issues remembering what they should know and what they'd already told one another from being inside a constant low-effect temporal shifting field?
This is a long-shot, but maybe the Iconians weren't entirely in their right minds without really realizing it? We know there were temporal anomalies on the non-Krenim side of the temporal synchronization, even leaving aside the potential undetected effects of there being an entire settlement not quite in the same time-frame there, and the Iconians do supposedly have that memory-scrambling reaction to being exposed to time-travel. Perhaps we were looking and listening in to Iconians with, in that place and that time, issues remembering what they should know and what they'd already told one another from being inside a constant low-effect temporal shifting field?
It's as good an explanation as any.
I generally enjoyed the episode and was able to overlook most of the issues brought up in this thread. Something like this was inevitable once Sela revealed the Iconians' weakness to temporal manipulation.
Yes, it's yet another time travel plot. Yes, sometimes it does feel like the game should be called Time Travel Online. But as long as they keep surprising us, I'm good with it.
Most of my thoughts have already been expressed, but one last little nitpick: Why is T'Ket still wearing damaged armor and waving around his stump? I would think that with all their "supior" tech they'd have prostheses. Even lacking that, you'd think he'd have some spare armor pieces laying around.
That "conference" was one of the most contrived pieces of plot exposition I've ever seen. There's simply no plausible reason for the Iconians to meet in the middle of nowhere and explain their plans and motivations to eachother as if they didn't know all that before.
Unless...it was an elaborate set-up, they knew the player was there and they fed us misinformation to get us to do something. Curious.
It was either a really stupid scene or a really clever one. Time will tell.
M'tara is the lead Iconian, and since Iconians can appear anywhere at any time, they chose to gather at the location where she happened to be. To them, any place is as good as another, since distance doesn't matter, and there's no need for formalities since they're all considered to be equals.
Agreed, this thread may not be the best one to bring this up but I didn't want to start a new one.
Agreed, this is just a minor quibble.
Agreed, Nog may be taking the superior role in this mission, although the player probably outranks him and has more Delta Quadrant experience.
Agreed, it is a tense situation and short one word exclamations are better than beating around the bush.
But after a number of playthroughs, I feel that the player is acting as a Yes Man (or Yes Woman mor Yes Gorn-we-don't-want-to-know-the-specifics) to Nog to a certain agree, eh, degree.
In short: after a couple of playthroughs I noticed that you tend to start a lot of your lines with Nog with the same word. I won't spoil which one, though.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I enjoyed this episode a lot. It has a cool character from Deep Space Nine in it, even.
(And, for some random VOY bashing/ DS9 is da bestest: Nog vs all the previous VOY guest stars also exemplifies what was wrong about VOY and great about DS9 - character development. Pretty much everyone in VOY didn't develop at all, and even a minor side character that barely got a name when he was first introduced grew up into a noteworthy individual.)
It was a good and intersting way to bring Krenim back, and an intersting way to give us more insights into the Iconians. Even though it's still mostly a mystery.
I wasn't that fond of that "chanting" aspect of their talk, but whatever.
I don't know if I really like the idea of bringing back Annorex Timeship, but that will probably depend on the fallout.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't think you can go back in time in a timeship and fix the Iconian problem, that would cause split timelines and paradoxes even too whacky for time-jumping Star Trek.
However, Sela does say the Iconians can't time travel, so the Chroniton weapons (ie time freezing, reversing etc) are the things that will win the war. Use the only thing the Iconians can't, time.
LUKARI GUERILLA GARDENING MILITIA - Glowing fingers are Growing fingers!
I don't think you can go back in time in a timeship and fix the Iconian problem, that would cause split timelines and paradoxes even too whacky for time-jumping Star Trek.
Obviously not. That would negate not only most of the game's previous storylines but even some of Star Trek canon.
But you can go back in time in a timeship, royally mess up the timeline in the process and then have to fix it again. One of the most classic time travel plots of all times.
Comments
This talk about a conference still confuses me.
I'm assuming the meeting between the Iconians.
Oh my, of course!
Conference just never came to mind when looking at that occult space wizard meeting.
Unless...it was an elaborate set-up, they knew the player was there and they fed us misinformation to get us to do something. Curious.
It was either a really stupid scene or a really clever one. Time will tell.
Yeah, really weak presented exposition.
Even if it is a plot twist in the end, our characters would be pretty dumb to just accept that the supposed remainder of the Iconian species beams into potential enemy territory to hold a meeting over basically nothing new to themselves.
Also, why the hell is that moon still in orbit, when the planet was removed from space-time? Okay, gravitation might in fact be a 11th-dimensional quantum substrate, so the planet could still affect the gravitational forces in that system even half a second "sidetracked" from the main timeline... but given that Cryptic thought that far... why are the Iconians not detecting that something is still holding that moon in orbit?
Same for the meeting. The Heralds said there was no one there, and the Iconians could just leave if something did attack. So why not hold the meeting there? It's no different from any other place, and at least one was already there on business.
Sela's statement that the Iconians have no concept of space was strange to begin with, though.
If every point in space is the same to them, how come M'tara orders the Heralds to "depart"?
They need to have "some" grasp of the reality they want to rule. Given their almost magical tech-level, basic understanding of gravity and solar systems should not be beyond them.
Also, M'tara is supposedly a master of gravity manipulation.
Gravity has a profound effect on space, time and maybe even other dimensions. No super-advanced cilization can be oblivious to its effects.
It's as good an explanation as any.
I generally enjoyed the episode and was able to overlook most of the issues brought up in this thread. Something like this was inevitable once Sela revealed the Iconians' weakness to temporal manipulation.
Yes, it's yet another time travel plot. Yes, sometimes it does feel like the game should be called Time Travel Online. But as long as they keep surprising us, I'm good with it.
M'tara is the lead Iconian, and since Iconians can appear anywhere at any time, they chose to gather at the location where she happened to be. To them, any place is as good as another, since distance doesn't matter, and there's no need for formalities since they're all considered to be equals.
Cons: Cutscenes should really be skippable after you play the mission for the first time.
Agreed, this is just a minor quibble.
Agreed, Nog may be taking the superior role in this mission, although the player probably outranks him and has more Delta Quadrant experience.
Agreed, it is a tense situation and short one word exclamations are better than beating around the bush.
But after a number of playthroughs, I feel that the player is acting as a Yes Man (or Yes Woman mor Yes Gorn-we-don't-want-to-know-the-specifics) to Nog to a certain agree, eh, degree.
In short: after a couple of playthroughs I noticed that you tend to start a lot of your lines with Nog with the same word. I won't spoil which one, though.
(And, for some random VOY bashing/ DS9 is da bestest: Nog vs all the previous VOY guest stars also exemplifies what was wrong about VOY and great about DS9 - character development. Pretty much everyone in VOY didn't develop at all, and even a minor side character that barely got a name when he was first introduced grew up into a noteworthy individual.)
It was a good and intersting way to bring Krenim back, and an intersting way to give us more insights into the Iconians. Even though it's still mostly a mystery.
I wasn't that fond of that "chanting" aspect of their talk, but whatever.
I don't know if I really like the idea of bringing back Annorex Timeship, but that will probably depend on the fallout.
However, Sela does say the Iconians can't time travel, so the Chroniton weapons (ie time freezing, reversing etc) are the things that will win the war. Use the only thing the Iconians can't, time.
Obviously not. That would negate not only most of the game's previous storylines but even some of Star Trek canon.
But you can go back in time in a timeship, royally mess up the timeline in the process and then have to fix it again. One of the most classic time travel plots of all times.