Isn't the whole point of the 8k refine limit a time gate of sorts? By allowing the use of unrefined dil
For rep and fleet stuff it would remove this time gate. I for one support a total removal of the refine limit and support the increase of rewards of dil for replay of epsiodes, this would give a great increase of available dil for projects, rep, and the dil exchange, a win win for everyone
Isn't the whole point of the 8k refine limit a time gate of sorts? By allowing the use of unrefined dil
For rep and fleet stuff it would remove this time gate. I for one support a total removal of the refine limit and support the increase of rewards of dil for replay of epsiodes, this would give a great increase of available dil for projects, rep, and the dil exchange, a win win for everyone
Removing the time gate for refining would remove the thing that gives Dil a decent value against Zen, time.
Yes, it would be great for the Dilithium only uses with static prices. It'd also mean you'd need a Dyson sphere full of it to purchase any Zen (see NWO and its "economy" of Astral Diamonds for examples).
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Removing the time gate for refining would remove the thing that gives Dil a decent value against Zen, time.
Yes, it would be great for the Dilithium only uses with static prices. It'd also mean you'd need a Dyson sphere full of it to purchase any Zen (see NWO and its "economy" of Astral Diamonds for examples).
Every month threads like this come up asking for something to sidestep the time gate, no matter the reasons, some players seem to always be short of dil. As more dil enters the game and their are less dil sinks, I want more value for my zen. Thats why I support a dil exchange of 500 dil per 1 zen.
pity that you cant transfer your unrefined dilithium to your other characters the way you can transfer the refined stuff, one of my guys has over 600k unrefined dil and others have none .
I for one support a total removal of the refine limit and support the increase of rewards of dil for replay of epsiodes, this would give a great increase of available dil for projects, rep, and the dil exchange, a win win for everyone
Being able to spend unrefined dilithium is actually a good idea...
People claim we have too much dilithium in the system and that we need a 'dil sink' to lower supply and drop the rate on the exchange.
Cryptic want to encourage people who can't wait to refine at 8k a day to buy Zen with $ instead of Dil.
So, being able to use unrefined dilithium for fleet projects, for example would REMOVE MORE dilithium from the game, it boosts the effectiveness of the sinks.
People could choose... 8k a day refining to buy Zen, etc, or a larger amount of unrefined poured into a fleet project, or some new dil sink that may be introduced in future seasons.
One of my fleet-mates has several hundred thousand in unrefined dilithium, he pays for Zen with dollars because refining that stockpile would take forever, even when he does refine it, he usually uses it for fleet projects or for crafting and upgrading weapons for fleet-mates, that he gives away FREE, because it's a way to use that vast pile of stuff.
Unrefined dilithium for fleet use would boost fleet upgrades, opening more store options to fleet members (that cost dilithium to purchase), and means they would need more fleet modules for all the cool fleet ships they can get from their new upgraded fleet shipyards. Modules bought with Zen for either $ or 8k refined a day.
By all means limit Zen purchases to the 8 k a day refined dilithium. You want more dilithium sinks, this idea is one.
Being able to spend ANY unrefined diltihium, only works to lessen the amount of possible people, selling zen for dilithium. Not something Cryptic wants to happen.
Unrefined Dilithium is, for the most part, just a scheme to make you think you are rich. In reality, it's as good as useless. Like I have currently 2 million Unrefined Dilithium; that would take me 250 days to refine; aka, be totally useless for any practical application.
Cryptic knows this, of course. Geko even said so, in a recent podcast, that they just want you to buy Zen, and convert it to Dilithium.
Mind you, Unrefined Dilithium is still better than nothing. But my approach is to just pretend it doesn't exist, instead of getting frustrated over not being able to touch it in a timely fashion.
It's a double edged sword point of view on this matter.
1: The time gate, is designed to cause impatience in people so, that they will instead spend RL $ and/or zen stipends on dilithium. [which it does in certain circumstance]
2: At the same time, the unrefined stockpile, can also be viewed as time that need not be spent, on acquiring more dilithium. [I call them freebie days, where I can do whatever the heck I want and, not worry about getting my daily cap]
I mean, we see these kinds of threads pop up, like once a month it seems and, none of them ever offer an actual good idea.
Most, if not all of them, are most likely created by dilithium farmers using tons of toons, wanting a quicker way to garnish the exchange with huge quantities of dilithium.
I mean heck, we even have someone saying it's a splendid idea but, at the same time saying they have difficulty reaching their daily cap and, how this would benefit people in the same boat!!!
How can this benefit ANYONE, who cannot reach their daily cap for the day? They would never EVER have any unrefined dilithium in the first place!!!!
Is there a stated purpose for the cap? It seems like little more than a means of limiting the rate at which players can purchase Zen off the dil-ex.
That's kind of the point, F2P player's are meant to be grinders and, meant to grind for long periods.
It's just people find it more efficient, to simply grind multiple toons so, that they gather more refined per day, than a single toon!
If they were allowed to refined double what they do currently, it would increase the dilithium flooding the market and, decrease dilithiums value exponentially.
Besides, the refinement cap tries to also encourage F2P players, to actually spend some RL $ as well!!!
the whole reason that people want to buy refined dilithium with their zen is that you need refined dilithium for everything, even removing the need for refined dilithium in one tiny area could offset the balance.
also once they allowed the use of unrefined dilithium on one thing players would start demanding it for others like if you can use unrefined for rep gear why cant we use it for crafting or upgrading gear and pretty soon it would end up that you wouldn't need to refine for anything.
one of the most important aspects of the game would be damaged beyond repair.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Is there a stated purpose for the cap? It seems like little more than a means of limiting the rate at which players can purchase Zen off the dil-ex.
Yes, it is a time-gate; and the longer you can be kept in-game the greater their odds of making some money off of you.
If you need 32,000 Dilithium to get an item, and you need 6 items, then Cryptic knows you will spend X days in-game earning that Dilithium. So 4 days per item, 6 items means 24-character days: or 12 days if using 2 characters, 8 days if 3 characters, etc. If it takes you a hour to earn 8,000 Dilithium then it is 24 /played hours to get those 6 items.
I do not know what the specific value is to increased sales but spread out over hundreds-of-thousands of players even a 1% chance of increased sales, over and above those who would normally buy, has financial value to them.
Time-gates are there to make them money. They either get you to buy Zen to avoid the gate entirely or they try to get you to spend a few dollars on something else enticing while doing the gate.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Thats one thing that has always bugged me with dil lets talk the rep system. you spend on average around 30 days levelling the tiers until completion, you get rewarded x amount of marks which can be sunk into a item project straight away, but the dil reward, you can only have access to 8k of it thats if you haven't already refined your 8k for that day, meaning unless you buy zen to convert to dil that shield/deflector/engine or warp core from the rep system is again locked behind a time gate for a minimum without fleet mine bumps, and if you have 0 refined dil, another 5 days as those items cost 32500k dil each. 5 day wait for each item, 4 piece set thats an additional 20 days unless you dip you're hand in your pocket and buy zen.
Even a piece of a ground set, again saying you have 0 dil after unlocking the piece, is gated behind a 2 day period as they cost on average 9k.
Maybe with rep items as long as you have the dil refined/unrefined you can use either to obtain that equipment.
I understand and agree with having a cap on how much dil you have access to using the exchange to convert dil to zen. The Zen Store is about making monetary purchases in principle.
I'd like to see the refinement cap disappear. Honestly if I need oodles of Dilithium I'd rather farm it on my toon that I'm enjoying then to have 4-6 other characters just to circumvent the refinement limit. I'd be more inclined to stay online more and play a character I enjoy then I am playing one character I enjoy but then having to switch to others to "farm" with unenjoyable characters just to beat the system.
Thats one thing that has always bugged me with dil lets talk the rep system. you spend on average around 30 days levelling the tiers until completion, you get rewarded x amount of marks which can be sunk into a item project straight away, but the dil reward, you can only have access to 8k of it thats if you haven't already refined your 8k for that day, meaning unless you buy zen to convert to dil that shield/deflector/engine or warp core from the rep system is again locked behind a time gate for a minimum without fleet mine bumps, and if you have 0 refined dil, another 5 days as those items cost 32500k dil each. 5 day wait for each item, 4 piece set thats an additional 20 days unless you dip you're hand in your pocket and buy zen.
Even a piece of a ground set, again saying you have 0 dil after unlocking the piece, is gated behind a 2 day period as they cost on average 9k.
Maybe with rep items as long as you have the dil refined/unrefined you can use either to obtain that equipment.
I understand and agree with having a cap on how much dil you have access to using the exchange to convert dil to zen. The Zen Store is about making monetary purchases in principle.
If you hit the refine cap all 20 days, that's 160,000 dil at the exact moment you hit tier 5. Which is enough to buy a full set plus have leftovers.
Since only one set item is gated at tier five, why wait anyway? Use those 20 days.
you guys can want the way dilithium works changed all you want, these things have been asked for time and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
I can tell you now you are wasting your time, they will never alter anything about dilithium ore or refining.
just about every idea that can be thought of has been thought of by players wanting to get around the refining cap and all suggestions have been completely ignored by the devs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Yes, it is a time-gate; and the longer you can be kept in-game the greater their odds of making some money off of you.
Not just a time gate (which is pretty much standard for all MMOs, since they not only want you in-game longer for various purposes, but they also can't possibly create content as fast as players can consume it. Even super-massive-budget games like WoW. Time gates is one of the ways that they make content last longer).
Anyway, as I was saying, it's not just a time gate. It's also a large brake on inflation. It slows down how fast refined Dil can enter the economy, no matter how crazy-obsessive people farm up unrefined. (Which is good for the free and/or non-infinite-time players, as it keeps them from being priced entirely out of the economy.)
I'd like to see the refinement cap disappear. Honestly if I need oodles of Dilithium I'd rather farm it on my toon that I'm enjoying then to have 4-6 other characters just to circumvent the refinement limit. I'd be more inclined to stay online more and play a character I enjoy then I am playing one character I enjoy but then having to switch to others to "farm" with unenjoyable characters just to beat the system.
While this would benefit people like yourself, it at the same time, would drive the exchange prices thru the roof, as farmers would undoubtedly do this for all of their toons.
Not just a time gate (which is pretty much standard for all MMOs, since they not only want you in-game longer for various purposes, but they also can't possibly create content as fast as players can consume it. Even super-massive-budget games like WoW. Time gates is one of the ways that they make content last longer).
Anyway, as I was saying, it's not just a time gate. It's also a large brake on inflation. It slows down how fast refined Dil can enter the economy, no matter how crazy-obsessive people farm up unrefined. (Which is good for the free and/or non-infinite-time players, as it keeps them from being priced entirely out of the economy.)
Anyway, as I was saying, it's not just a time gate. It's also a large brake on inflation. It slows down how fast refined Dil can enter the economy, no matter how crazy-obsessive people farm up unrefined.
Creating a use for unrefined dilithium would equally reduce the rate of inflation.
It may even go beyond that, as players are less inclined to farm dil on their alts, because continuing to farm past 8k on their main is immediately productive.
If I was currently more inclined to be active, I could be farming 8k a day across 8 characters, with another 4 characters in need of leveling.
If I could use unrefined dilithium, I would very likely be farming 8k refined on my main, and then additional unrefined on my main, without farming any on my N alts.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Creating a use for unrefined dilithium would equally reduce the rate of inflation.
It may even go beyond that, as players are less inclined to farm dil on their alts, because continuing to farm past 8k on their main is immediately productive.
If I was currently more inclined to be active, I could be farming 8k a day across 8 characters, with another 4 characters in need of leveling.
If I could use unrefined dilithium, I would very likely be farming 8k refined on my main, and then additional unrefined on my main, without farming any on my N alts.
You have to remember, there are those who can gather their daily on multiple characters, in like roughly an hour.
Than, saying they could simply make use of un-refined as well, they could potentially farm the living TRIBBLE out of a single an/or, multiple characters doing the same!
It would flood the market BIG time, if there was no daily cap and, cause a potential income loss to Cryptic, if people can simply spend un-refined on projects!!!
It would flood the market BIG time, if there was no daily cap and, cause a potential income loss to Cryptic, if people can simply spend un-refined on projects!!!
It can't possibly flood the market. The 8k cap prevents flooding the market.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
It tanks pretty quickly though, it hits past 250 for a bit, than drops back down into the 240ish range!
If it ever exceeds the 260 range, I don't suspect it to last long!
I suspect that's just a function of the decreased activity typical of the summer. Namely that the F2P grinders are less active during the summer, while P2W casuals are slightly more active.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
For rep and fleet stuff it would remove this time gate. I for one support a total removal of the refine limit and support the increase of rewards of dil for replay of epsiodes, this would give a great increase of available dil for projects, rep, and the dil exchange, a win win for everyone
Removing the time gate for refining would remove the thing that gives Dil a decent value against Zen, time.
Yes, it would be great for the Dilithium only uses with static prices. It'd also mean you'd need a Dyson sphere full of it to purchase any Zen (see NWO and its "economy" of Astral Diamonds for examples).
Every month threads like this come up asking for something to sidestep the time gate, no matter the reasons, some players seem to always be short of dil. As more dil enters the game and their are less dil sinks, I want more value for my zen. Thats why I support a dil exchange of 500 dil per 1 zen.
Soooooo..... less of a "win-win for everyone" and more just a "win" for you? :P
Oh, there are other players? :P
Being able to spend ANY unrefined diltihium, only works to lessen the amount of possible people, selling zen for dilithium. Not something Cryptic wants to happen.
It's a double edged sword point of view on this matter.
1: The time gate, is designed to cause impatience in people so, that they will instead spend RL $ and/or zen stipends on dilithium. [which it does in certain circumstance]
2: At the same time, the unrefined stockpile, can also be viewed as time that need not be spent, on acquiring more dilithium. [I call them freebie days, where I can do whatever the heck I want and, not worry about getting my daily cap]
I mean, we see these kinds of threads pop up, like once a month it seems and, none of them ever offer an actual good idea.
Most, if not all of them, are most likely created by dilithium farmers using tons of toons, wanting a quicker way to garnish the exchange with huge quantities of dilithium.
I mean heck, we even have someone saying it's a splendid idea but, at the same time saying they have difficulty reaching their daily cap and, how this would benefit people in the same boat!!!
How can this benefit ANYONE, who cannot reach their daily cap for the day? They would never EVER have any unrefined dilithium in the first place!!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That's kind of the point, F2P player's are meant to be grinders and, meant to grind for long periods.
It's just people find it more efficient, to simply grind multiple toons so, that they gather more refined per day, than a single toon!
If they were allowed to refined double what they do currently, it would increase the dilithium flooding the market and, decrease dilithiums value exponentially.
Besides, the refinement cap tries to also encourage F2P players, to actually spend some RL $ as well!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
also once they allowed the use of unrefined dilithium on one thing players would start demanding it for others like if you can use unrefined for rep gear why cant we use it for crafting or upgrading gear and pretty soon it would end up that you wouldn't need to refine for anything.
one of the most important aspects of the game would be damaged beyond repair.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
comments on that...............
If you need 32,000 Dilithium to get an item, and you need 6 items, then Cryptic knows you will spend X days in-game earning that Dilithium. So 4 days per item, 6 items means 24-character days: or 12 days if using 2 characters, 8 days if 3 characters, etc. If it takes you a hour to earn 8,000 Dilithium then it is 24 /played hours to get those 6 items.
I do not know what the specific value is to increased sales but spread out over hundreds-of-thousands of players even a 1% chance of increased sales, over and above those who would normally buy, has financial value to them.
Time-gates are there to make them money. They either get you to buy Zen to avoid the gate entirely or they try to get you to spend a few dollars on something else enticing while doing the gate.
Even a piece of a ground set, again saying you have 0 dil after unlocking the piece, is gated behind a 2 day period as they cost on average 9k.
Maybe with rep items as long as you have the dil refined/unrefined you can use either to obtain that equipment.
I understand and agree with having a cap on how much dil you have access to using the exchange to convert dil to zen. The Zen Store is about making monetary purchases in principle.
Nope. You don't need /played hour. You can be offline during the 24h period.
/pedantic
I would like to convert it into Zen, but the current conversion rate keeps me from doing so...
If you hit the refine cap all 20 days, that's 160,000 dil at the exact moment you hit tier 5. Which is enough to buy a full set plus have leftovers.
Since only one set item is gated at tier five, why wait anyway? Use those 20 days.
I can tell you now you are wasting your time, they will never alter anything about dilithium ore or refining.
just about every idea that can be thought of has been thought of by players wanting to get around the refining cap and all suggestions have been completely ignored by the devs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Not just a time gate (which is pretty much standard for all MMOs, since they not only want you in-game longer for various purposes, but they also can't possibly create content as fast as players can consume it. Even super-massive-budget games like WoW. Time gates is one of the ways that they make content last longer).
Anyway, as I was saying, it's not just a time gate. It's also a large brake on inflation. It slows down how fast refined Dil can enter the economy, no matter how crazy-obsessive people farm up unrefined. (Which is good for the free and/or non-infinite-time players, as it keeps them from being priced entirely out of the economy.)
While this would benefit people like yourself, it at the same time, would drive the exchange prices thru the roof, as farmers would undoubtedly do this for all of their toons.
Agreed!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
It may even go beyond that, as players are less inclined to farm dil on their alts, because continuing to farm past 8k on their main is immediately productive.
If I was currently more inclined to be active, I could be farming 8k a day across 8 characters, with another 4 characters in need of leveling.
If I could use unrefined dilithium, I would very likely be farming 8k refined on my main, and then additional unrefined on my main, without farming any on my N alts.
You have to remember, there are those who can gather their daily on multiple characters, in like roughly an hour.
Than, saying they could simply make use of un-refined as well, they could potentially farm the living TRIBBLE out of a single an/or, multiple characters doing the same!
It would flood the market BIG time, if there was no daily cap and, cause a potential income loss to Cryptic, if people can simply spend un-refined on projects!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Exactly but, you have those who are petitioning the removal of the 8k cap, as well as people wanting the ability to spend un-refined on projects.
Having either or, both would be potentially bad, in their own manner!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
It tanks pretty quickly though, it hits past 250 for a bit, than drops back down into the 240ish range!
If it ever exceeds the 260 range, I don't suspect it to last long!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Not really, as we can plainly see, there is little zen being offered, and even smaller dilithium being offered at the same time.
This is why I said it tanks quite often and, falls back down to a medium of large quantity movement again, before rising once again.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!