Er...you do know the mission exists already don't you? The Fek'lhri Return arc? I doubt it's much of a spoiler now but the basic idea is you search out the sword to defeat them.
At the end of the last mission Kahless himself says it's too dangerous to just let anyone have the original because of the corrupting power it holds, so it remains with the monks in the monastery on Boreth. So instead you are awarded a replica.
"The sword will unite us if it's held in the hands of a true Klingon, not a politician like Gowron, or some toothless figurehead like the Emperor. The sword must rest in the hands of someone who has been hardened by battle, pure of heart, who understands loyalty and honor. A warrior like Kang and Koloth."
"Someone like you?"
"The Empire could do far worse."
if Kor was right, that would mean the clone was the target of the swords purpose (despite his claim) when it is time to unite the klingon people. J'mpok leads in political arenas and administration, that is his place despite the iconion war, but the clone has always been a figurehead of the empire, the morale and spirit of the empire, he held the sword going into battle is like saying every klingon is taking a strike against the iconians, as if each one is holding the sword for that moment, especially as a unifed will of the people.
If that was not the case and the clone really was not the true purpose of the sword, then the next mission to liberate it from the iconians, likely the first klingon to pick it up will be that "true" klingon who will unite the empire.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Am I the only one who immediately thought, on seeing the sword hit the floor plating...
"Ah, future Iconian War FE's will include 'Klingon Jihad - Take Back The Sword' and 'Klingon Camelot - Pull The Sword From The Iconian Stone'..."
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
In regards to some of these posters considering it's a worthless chunk of metal. That can be said for the Constitution it's a worthless piece of a paper. BUT the ideals it represents make it valuable. The same can be said for Khaless's sword. It's not the artifact itself but what it stands for that gives it value. Also It was an NPC that beamed everyone out in a panic. Historicly many lost cause charges have in the long run changed the tide of the larger conflict. An example of this can be seen with Gen. Jimmy Doolittle raid on Tokyo. It was a forlorn hope that had a very slim chance and would do little actual damage. BUT it did show the Imperial Japanese Forces were not all powerful and the American public and armed forces rallied around that mission that had a 100% loss of equipment and heavy casualities at a point when it seemed hopeless. On the other side the Japanese forces over reacted and withdrew vital assetts to the home islands to defend against further incursions leaving the forces deployed weakened and shipping vunerble to attack. Perhaps this was the goal of the raid no matter the personel outcome for the Allied forces involved with the raid to create a rally cry. Remember there was a massive defeat at Starbase 234 and the Presevers were destroyed deep in "safe" territory. Pretty demoralizing.
Back to reasons that a raid to recover the sword could be a major rally point can be taken from the raids to free captured allied forces both in the ETO and PTO in WW2. A small victory can have a massive effect on the moral of either side.
Two problems with your argument:
The actual Constitution is a worthless piece of paper. It's the words that are written on it that are important, because they set down the fundamental structure of government for what is now ~300 million people.
The Sword of Kahless is just a sword, and as we've seen in DS9, is likely going to do more damage to the Allied cause than it would help.
We've already had our Doolittle Raid. Or did you just skip over "Delta Flight", where we didn't go charging in like maniacs or start babbling about "hur hur HONOR", and actually achieved the mission objective (and with far lower casualty rates than General Doolittle, I might add)?
Yeah, Kahless created a rally cry all right. It's a rallying cry to never let the Klingons have a planning role in anything ever again, if a complete and utter pooch-TRIBBLE like "House Pegh" is the best their "honorable warriors" can manage. Let the real soldiers who fight for victory, not glory, run the show.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Odin lost his eye, Tyr his hand, I'm sure there are other examples. Not all gods are omnipotent beings- hence the little 'g'.
Both of those were voluntary acts. Odin carved out his own eye to gain spiritual vision. Tyr sacrificed his hand to Fenrir as condition of binding him until ragnarok. Being voluntary they don't disprove omnipotence.
A better example might be Osiris who was carved into pieces, then when his wife tried to put him back together she couldn't find them all. Making him the only gelded fertility god I'm aware of. Or ganesh who was decapitated then had an elephant's head stuck on and was revived when his mother flipped out and threatened to end creation early.
If you don't mind lots and lots of pedantry Wikipedia has a wonderful summary of the argument over definitions of omnipotence:
Both of those were voluntary acts. Odin carved out his own eye to gain spiritual vision. Tyr sacrificed his hand to Fenrir as condition of binding him until ragnarok. Being voluntary they don't disprove omnipotence.
A better example might be Osiris who was carved into pieces, then when his wife tried to put him back together she couldn't find them all. Making him the only gelded fertility god I'm aware of. Or ganesh who was decapitated then had an elephant's head stuck on and was revived when his mother flipped out and threatened to end creation early.
If you don't mind lots and lots of pedantry Wikipedia has a wonderful summary of the argument over definitions of omnipotence:
All of which is entirely academic. The Iconians aren't gods, they're just OP f*cks with designs on conquest, nothing we haven't seen before from the Borg and the Vaadwaur. They've never even made pretensions to being gods, nor do they have any powers that might be considered godlike (unlike, say, Q or the Prophets). Everything they've got is technological trickery, nothing more.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
All of which is entirely academic. The Iconians aren't gods, they're just OP f*cks with designs on conquest, nothing we haven't seen before from the Borg and the Vaadwaur. They've never even made pretensions to being gods, nor do they have any powers that might be considered godlike (unlike, say, Q or the Prophets). Everything they've got is technological trickery, nothing more.
Completely true yes. ^.^
Edit, let's add in two more: the organians and Kevin Uxbridge
All of which is entirely academic. The Iconians aren't gods, they're just OP f*cks with designs on conquest, nothing we haven't seen before from the Borg and the Vaadwaur. They've never even made pretensions to being gods, nor do they have any powers that might be considered godlike (unlike, say, Q or the Prophets). Everything they've got is technological trickery, nothing more.
I think the injured Iconian herself made the claim actually in that very cutscene.
Why she would could be an interesting question as nothing indicates that is how they think of themselves before. But I've given up trying to find anything rational in that mission, I don't think it exists.
If she had turned into a my little pony and back-kicked Kahlass into a wall of Mortal Kombat spikes, it wouldn't have surprised me by the end.
Why should such a mission be only for KDF? Maybe my Klingon serving in Starfleet would like to get it. Maybe my Bajoran would like to recover it to give it to the new head of all Klingons as a paper weight.
OK Devs a thought. Seeing how the Sword of Kahless is such a cultural icon of the Klingon society and as such a key part of Klingon History and Lore would it not be reasonable to try and recover it? A recent allagory to this would be the Honjo Manasune a cultural icon lost to history but still being looked for. I would love to have a mission chain just for KDF to search for and recover or failing that destroy The Sword of Kahless. As a reward for recovering it perhaps an Epic level Batlath with very high level procs say plus 50 to shields and armor, plus 50 critical hit chance, plus 50 heal, plus 50 critcal damage something really epic in nature. I'd like to see the mission be tough so when you either recover or destroy the Sword (destroying it to keep it from being used by the enemies of the Empire) you feel like you actually did something heroic. A reward for destroying it could be a special unlock piece of gear not epic but still fairly serious stat wise. THis could be a one shot type mission simaler to some of the ones in the game already.
So please can we have a mission to recover The Sword of Kahless?
Instead of Klingon, can it be a Ferengi only mission? I'm sure there's a nice profit in retrieving that particular ancient Klingon artefact.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Why she would could be an interesting question as nothing indicates that is how they think of themselves before. But I've given up trying to find anything rational in that mission, I don't think it exists.
If she had turned into a my little pony and back-kicked Kahlass into a wall of Mortal Kombat spikes, it wouldn't have surprised me by the end.
Honestly, I'm inclined file that one under the same heading as the Goa'uld thinking they're gods: delusions of grandeur.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
If you think that you're a fool. Kahless knew he was going to die going into that battle. He did it to prove that the Iconians can be defeated, yes he died, but he has shown us that we CAN beat them. Recovering the sword would provide a moral boost like nothing else, the blade that took an Iconians arm would galvanize everyone fighting against the Heralds and their masters not just the Klingons.
I heavily doubt that. Khaless though he might win. And because of the Iconians Hubris he nearly did, the moment the Iconian went to full power he was defeated in an instant. If the Iconian had wanted, it could have vaporized/exploded Khaless where he stood and taunted.
Personally, I think you have to invent another word since stupid is too weak to account for that level of stupidness. The recovery would be a moral boost? The loss of Khaless and the sword is a far greater moral loss than the recovery of an stupid sword could compensate. They lost there Icon for Invincibility.
Not to mention, the way he was able to take the arm was very unhonorable.
The loss of Khaless and the sword is a far greater moral loss than the recovery of an stupid sword could compensate.
I agree totally with this part. The very symbol of their entire race took his shot and was soundly defeated even with Omega Pixie Dust backup and nothing to show for the attempt.
It would be completely demoralizing. But Cryptic says otherwise, so otherwise it is.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
There is no such thing, only pretenders, false gods.
Then the "false" is an unnecessary addition, isn't it?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Thomas Aquinas believed the best (and only) way to describe God, was to list the things he's NOT. So, analogous to his reasoning, a 'true god' is one who has no need for a Star ship. :P
Thomas Aquinas believed the best (and only) way to describe God, was to list the things he's NOT. So, analogous to his reasoning, a 'true god' is one who has no need for a Star ship. :P
Well, I don't need a starship. Who does? Yet I am not a god. We can be sure about it. Anyway I am not talking about the God of the Bible. I see the Iconians as gods such as the gods from Greek mythology. Iconians are not a species, not a lifeform. Perhaps they were once, but they have evolved. We have to kill them, terminate them, of course.
Really? They can create planets (well Dyson Spheres), travel across the Galaxy in an instant, vapourise people with a wave of their hand, and have a bunch of brainwashed zealots for an army. What part of the definition of gods are they missing?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
"False gods!", as Teal'c would say. :P
'And on the 7th Day the god lost his arm.' Nah. I just don't see it.
Er...you do know the mission exists already don't you? The Fek'lhri Return arc? I doubt it's much of a spoiler now but the basic idea is you search out the sword to defeat them.
At the end of the last mission Kahless himself says it's too dangerous to just let anyone have the original because of the corrupting power it holds, so it remains with the monks in the monastery on Boreth. So instead you are awarded a replica.
"Someone like you?"
"The Empire could do far worse."
if Kor was right, that would mean the clone was the target of the swords purpose (despite his claim) when it is time to unite the klingon people. J'mpok leads in political arenas and administration, that is his place despite the iconion war, but the clone has always been a figurehead of the empire, the morale and spirit of the empire, he held the sword going into battle is like saying every klingon is taking a strike against the iconians, as if each one is holding the sword for that moment, especially as a unifed will of the people.
If that was not the case and the clone really was not the true purpose of the sword, then the next mission to liberate it from the iconians, likely the first klingon to pick it up will be that "true" klingon who will unite the empire.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"Ah, future Iconian War FE's will include 'Klingon Jihad - Take Back The Sword' and 'Klingon Camelot - Pull The Sword From The Iconian Stone'..."
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Two problems with your argument:
The Sword of Kahless is just a sword, and as we've seen in DS9, is likely going to do more damage to the Allied cause than it would help.
Yeah, Kahless created a rally cry all right. It's a rallying cry to never let the Klingons have a planning role in anything ever again, if a complete and utter pooch-TRIBBLE like "House Pegh" is the best their "honorable warriors" can manage. Let the real soldiers who fight for victory, not glory, run the show.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Odin lost his eye, Tyr his hand, I'm sure there are other examples. Not all gods are omnipotent beings- hence the little 'g'.
And a rally cry to replace the Cryptic story writers. Those guys just suck at what they're doing.
Unless they happen to be the producers 10 year old kids or something. Then aren't doing great, but perhaps passable for their age.
Smart?
Did you play the same missions I did where he keeps ignoring the warnings his son is giving him?
Traditional and Honorable- Yes. Smart? Not so much.
Besides, no one listens to Worf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edflm7Hh3hs
Kill your opponent THEN do your boastful monologue.
Also, a better warrior would have sensed the arrival of a new enemy even one appearing via teleport. Kirk-roll, parry, riposte!
Both of those were voluntary acts. Odin carved out his own eye to gain spiritual vision. Tyr sacrificed his hand to Fenrir as condition of binding him until ragnarok. Being voluntary they don't disprove omnipotence.
A better example might be Osiris who was carved into pieces, then when his wife tried to put him back together she couldn't find them all. Making him the only gelded fertility god I'm aware of. Or ganesh who was decapitated then had an elephant's head stuck on and was revived when his mother flipped out and threatened to end creation early.
If you don't mind lots and lots of pedantry Wikipedia has a wonderful summary of the argument over definitions of omnipotence:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence
All of which is entirely academic. The Iconians aren't gods, they're just OP f*cks with designs on conquest, nothing we haven't seen before from the Borg and the Vaadwaur. They've never even made pretensions to being gods, nor do they have any powers that might be considered godlike (unlike, say, Q or the Prophets). Everything they've got is technological trickery, nothing more.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Completely true yes. ^.^
Edit, let's add in two more: the organians and Kevin Uxbridge
I think the injured Iconian herself made the claim actually in that very cutscene.
Why she would could be an interesting question as nothing indicates that is how they think of themselves before. But I've given up trying to find anything rational in that mission, I don't think it exists.
If she had turned into a my little pony and back-kicked Kahlass into a wall of Mortal Kombat spikes, it wouldn't have surprised me by the end.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
Instead of Klingon, can it be a Ferengi only mission? I'm sure there's a nice profit in retrieving that particular ancient Klingon artefact.
Honestly, I'm inclined file that one under the same heading as the Goa'uld thinking they're gods: delusions of grandeur.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Star Trek in all its incarnations seems obsessed with gods...
I like it better when its obsessed with Orion Slave Girls... opps, forget I said that.
I heavily doubt that. Khaless though he might win. And because of the Iconians Hubris he nearly did, the moment the Iconian went to full power he was defeated in an instant. If the Iconian had wanted, it could have vaporized/exploded Khaless where he stood and taunted.
Personally, I think you have to invent another word since stupid is too weak to account for that level of stupidness. The recovery would be a moral boost? The loss of Khaless and the sword is a far greater moral loss than the recovery of an stupid sword could compensate. They lost there Icon for Invincibility.
Not to mention, the way he was able to take the arm was very unhonorable.
I agree totally with this part. The very symbol of their entire race took his shot and was soundly defeated even with Omega Pixie Dust backup and nothing to show for the attempt.
It would be completely demoralizing. But Cryptic says otherwise, so otherwise it is.
Indeed they are false gods.
What's a "true" god, then?
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There is no such thing, only pretenders, false gods.
Then the "false" is an unnecessary addition, isn't it?
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Thomas Aquinas believed the best (and only) way to describe God, was to list the things he's NOT. So, analogous to his reasoning, a 'true god' is one who has no need for a Star ship. :P
Well, I don't need a starship. Who does? Yet I am not a god. We can be sure about it. Anyway I am not talking about the God of the Bible. I see the Iconians as gods such as the gods from Greek mythology. Iconians are not a species, not a lifeform. Perhaps they were once, but they have evolved. We have to kill them, terminate them, of course.
Really? They can create planets (well Dyson Spheres), travel across the Galaxy in an instant, vapourise people with a wave of their hand, and have a bunch of brainwashed zealots for an army. What part of the definition of gods are they missing?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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